Phil Hogan

What is schadenfreude?

Captain Havoc

Schadenfreude and Phil Hogan, what's the connection?

I'm not sure yet but I have emailed him personally to find out. I know he is busy but I'd like to know what he has to say about it.

fabbydabby

There are plenty of excellent word definition websites online, you don't need to write to your local TD.

I feel I do. I need to gauge Chairman Phil before I turn myself in at his constituency office for failure to comply with the household charge, as I'm not waiting for his secret police to take me away in the dead of night. I don't want to become one of the undocumented.

Captain Havoc

Davidian_ie wrote: »

I'm not sure yet but I have emailed him personally to find out. I know he is busy but I'd like to know what he has to say about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37OWL7AzvHo

fabbydabby

Davidian_ie wrote: »

I feel I do. I need to gauge Chairman Phil before I turn myself in at his constituency office for failure to comply with the household charge, as I'm not waiting for his secret police to take me away in the dead of night. I don't want to become one of the undocumented.

I still don't see the connection. Are you suggesting that Phil gets pleasure from enforcing the household tax?

flutered

fabbydabby wrote: »

I still don't see the connection. Are you suggesting that Phil gets pleasure from enforcing the household tax?

seen as he does not have to pay it himself i guess he does, as he is rather selective who is exempt.

All I can say is that he has forgot very quick, those who voted him in. Would love to see him knock the doors of his constituents and threaten them for the money. It is a cheap shot tax. Are they not stealing enough out of our pockets at the pumps?

Anyway the less money available to councils and councillors the better. Their system of governance needs to be changed and it would be irresponsible of me to contribute to them. All they are going to do is squander the money and a lot of them still with grease on their palms from this country's dirty past. Too many councils also in this country. Time the whole system was streamlined.

Now for the slating!

Captain Havoc

When I was living in Birmingham we paid council tax, our bins were collected and I got to play golf very cheaply every week on excellent council courses (there were other facilities available that I never used), I didn't feel hard done by. This tax annoys me because a lot of people buy houses so they won't have to pay rent etc.... when their mortgage is paid. €100 for absolutely nothing in return.

Unless you have access to a councillor, Minister or a TD the council ain't ever going to do anything for you. It's all take now with nothing in return. This government promised revolution regarding the way business was done in these kind of organizations but have failed to deliver any significant change. Maybe they just need the money to hire more traffic wardens for the city.

I think if Phil Hogan learned how to manage waste in his Department he wouldn't need to be spending his time inventing stupid taxes to crucify the people. The people are speaking out now about this charge but he ain't listening. How the hell will he be able to knock peoples door's during the next election campaign after what he is trying to inflict on people?

andyman

I did try to tell you all about Phil Hogan, but a few wet themselves in excitement of having a Minister from Carlow-Kilkenny that they didn't listen.

Bet you wish you did now!

Silverscott

One thing for sure Phil You will never get a vote again from anyone in my family ever.
And we aint paying the charge either.
Sick of this **** in the country.

mikom

Olivia O' Leary gave both barrels to ould Phil this evening..........
http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2012/pc/pod-v-2002124m25sdrivetimeolivia-pid0-265032.mp3

catbear

The whole idea of local taxes and rates is that locals have direct say in how that money is spent. Different councils in London charge very different rates partly dependent on what local voters set as priorities.

In Ireland voters think government is the means by which they can live at everyone elses expense. Voting for a politician based on what can be gained personally is setting the system up for corruption. No one should be surprised when Irish pols help themselves, by voting for someone in anticipation of personal gain voters give their reps permission to be self serving.

I can't see property taxes working in Ireland as everyone expects them to be plundered by clientelistic reps who are only acting in a way that's endorsed by the selfishness of the "what are you going to do for me" voter.

In the end household taxes will be added onto the ESB bill. Simpler and cost effective too.

Sky King

Probably.

Olivia is dead right when she says small property tax would have really dampened the property bubble. I don't see what all the fuss is about with regard to property tax. It's less than €9 a poxy month, FFS!

It's a really stable, reliable, predictable (when administered correctly) tax and that's why most countries have one. But in Ireland we pounded our fist on the table and said we would never pay one, so instead our already struggling businesses get roasted with higher commercial rates to compansate.

What I want to know is, if 80% of people don't pay this and Phil does another U-turn, will I get my money back?

Captain Havoc

€9 here and €9 there, they eventually add up.

foxcoverteddy

Seeing Phil has not bothered to tell us by official letter anything about this imposition, how can anyone pay.
Before any one says do it online, there is no legal duty to read newspapers or the Kilkenny people, they are not official organs, I have never agreed to listen to RTE or KCLR, they are not official organs.
I might have a computer but it is mine, and does not belong to anyone else, so I choose what to input and watch.
However if someone i.e. the government want money and it is legal then send a payment request.
This well you should have known idiom is not right it ain't legal, if this how Phil baby does business then it is time for him to give up with all his other cronies.
Yes they did promise change, we do not need the high number of TD's or local councillor's, we are paying for what?
But who do we put in charge, they all seem to be the same, is there any genuine officials left?
Help

mikom

Sky King wrote: »

Probably.

Olivia is dead right when she says small property tax would have really dampened the property bubble. I don't see what all the fuss is about with regard to property tax. It's less than €9 a poxy month, FFS!

Three times that at least next year..... FFS!

THE PROPOSED PROPERTY tax will raise around €500 million in annual revenue, three times more than the new household charge will bring in, the Taoiseach Enda Kenny has said.http://www.thejournal.ie/property-tax-will-raise-around-e500m-taoiseach-312372-Dec2011/

Sky King wrote: »

What I want to know is, if 80% of people don't pay this and Phil does another U-turn, will I get my money back?

You will in your hole.

Don't register - don't pay........... http://nohouseholdtax.org/your-questions-answered/

If I thought the Household Charge was going to be put to proper use I would have no problem paying it. To think that it is going to be wasted on some not to be named Councillors in the borough, just makes my blood boil. Besides they collect rates, motor tax and have huge revenue coming from parking in the city. Have they never heard of budgeting. Bottom line, I think this money is targeted to go straight into the bailout fund and the whole thing is a farce now. The bottom line with Chairman Phil is that he tried to get everyone to register as cheap as possible so he would have them ensnared for the real pain the following year when he triples the charges. When you take into account collection costs, advertising, administration costs etc. the €100 would hardly lead to a break even scenario.

Anyway, interesting post from another Kilkenny person on the subject, that looks more at the legality of what Chairman Phil is trying to push through.

http://reclaimthevoice.wordpress.com/2012/03/21/hogans-household-tax/

EKRIUQ

I think Phil is coming across as a bit of a prick, with this household charge and threatening people with jail and claiming that people are stupid if they can't use a computer is a bit much.

mikom

EKRIUQ wrote: »

I think Phil is coming across as a bit of a prick, with this household charge and threatening people with jail and claiming that people are stupid if they can't use a computer is a bit much.

In political terms the dudes a dead man walking.

Septic tank registration fee back down.

Jittery on the bogs.

And as of 5pm today only 300,172 households out of 1.6 million had paid the household charge.
10 days to go.

EKRIUQ

EKRIUQ wrote: »

I think Phil is coming across as a bit of a prick, with this household charge and threatening people with jail and claiming that people are stupid if they can't use a computer is a bit much.

Maybe he thinks he is gentry and that Ireland is his estate and he is merely collecting his dues from his mere peasants. The more I think about this the more it stinks, it's bad enough that when I get in my car I am raped by the Govt., now they want to come into my house and ass_rape me some more. There is no fairness in this society and they are just widening the gap been the connected classes and everyone else. Oh and another bill in the post tomorrow for irish taxpayers of €250 million to pay legal expenses for the Mahon Tribunal. 15 years to tell us that no one will be going to jail and nobody will be paying back any money illegally received. Carry on Bertie, as you were.

Last thought. Are halting sites exempt from the charge? Could be interesting collecting down at places like Wetlands.

up for anything

flutered wrote: »

seen as he does not have to pay it himself i guess he does, as he is rather selective who is exempt.

He does have to pay it himself.

catbear wrote: »

In Ireland voters think government is the means by which they can live at everyone elses expense. Voting for a politician based on what can be gained personally is setting the system up for corruption. No one should be surprised when Irish pols help themselves, by voting for someone in anticipation of personal gain voters give their reps permission to be self serving.

Thanks very much for the high opinion you hold of me/us.

mikom wrote: »

Three times that at least next year..... FFS!

Only three times. I'd put money on it that by 2015 it'll be at least €65 a month.

foxcoverteddy

Can we say we have had enough of this TD? He is making Kilkenny a laughing stock.
Please what advertising, have not seen one piece of literature, and as for people and computer's lets hope he slips up and sits on his own.

Threadhead

In 10 days time, countless amounts of money will be spent in admin attempting to go after hundreds of thousands of people who haven't paid the household charge. And that's only when Fine Gael finally figure out how to implement collection of their own tax efficiently.

Phil Hogan's only been in a year and he's done more than enough to commit political suicide. Next elections, he's done.

He didn't research the implementation of his tax properly so I suggest he learns from his mistake and does some research on what to do when your political career flatlines. I'm sure he has Bobby Aylward's phone number.

Angus MacGyver

mikom wrote: »

And as of 5pm today only 300,172 households out of 1.6 million had paid the household charge.

How can we be sure that this figure is even accurate. The scare tactics will start next week when they release fraudulent figures claiming that over half have paid. In the panic the people who think they are now in the minority will start paying. Typical divide and conquer. The truth will come out down the line but will barely be reported on by the state run media.

foxcoverteddy

do you think he will resign? If one cannot do a simple job, why are we still employing him? After all he is only an employee who has made a fanastic balls up. Probably not even council material.

I think Phil Hogan also needs to come out and give clarity about why he blocked any reviews of rezoning scandals, as brought up today by Eamon Ryan. Seems to have been a lot of local planning officers and county managers shielded from investigation also. The guy talked about transparency and a new way of the Govt doing business here,

http://electionleaflets.mygov.ie/full.php?q=198#l427

This ceiling on salaries for politicians is now laughable and what timing to try and sneak new pay rises through when the country is gripped with Mahon Fever,

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0322/1224313702095.html

Anyway at least nepotism and cronyism will never die under the FG/Lab watch,

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/majority-of-state-board-jobs-go-unadvertised-187967.html

catbear

up for anything wrote: »

Thanks very much for the high opinion you hold of me/us.

High or low, that's my experience. If it's not accurate then please offer your interpretation.

I can't see how some FG members were not caught up in the same planning irregularities during the bubble, Phil confirms that suspicion when he said there would be no inquiry.

noddyone2

There's a rumour that his Ma loves him, might be something to do with that.

foxcoverteddy

So we have a prime example of a TD who should not hold a position in government, the household tax is a balls up, but we are paying him and not asking questions of Kenny. Why is he still there, but perhaps Kenny's absence is convenient.
You are so good at words, use them to effect.

catbear

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

You are so good at words, use them to effect.

Letting us know who you're addressing might help.

foxcoverteddy

Hi Catbear
You have onlyto read the posts in this thread, most of you are so articulate in your writing, it would be wrong to name just one, it is a pleasure to read what you have written.
That was the reason, sorry but have a nicwe day, regards Foxy

catbear

For a start I can think of a few bankers that mislead their investors but are still at liberty. Sean Fitzpatrick is still free even after admitting that he misled auditors for most of the last decade, borrowing money from other Irish financial lenders so he could plug shortfalls while his bank was being audited. When the audit was complete he'd return the loan and the deception continued. Dozens of white collar criminals, like Bernie Madoff, were tried and jailed when their deceptions were uncovered.

I agree that this new tax is unfair, why should someone with a five bedroom house be charged the same as someone in an two bed excouncil house. It isn't a user tax and given the soft touch Irish society has towards white collar crime these funds are likely to wasted.

I hope that the anti house charge protest can combine anti corruption as an equal standard in their cause.

flutered

catbear wrote: »

For a start I can think of a few bankers that mislead their investors but are still at liberty. Sean Fitzpatrick is still free even after admitting that he misled auditors for most of the last decade, borrowing money from other Irish financial lenders so he could plug shortfalls while his bank was being audited. When the audit was complete he'd return the loan and the deception continued. Dozens of white collar criminals, like Bernie Madoff, were tried and jailed when their deceptions were uncovered.

I agree that this new tax is unfair, why should someone with a five bedroom house be charged the same as someone in an two bed excouncil house. It isn't a user tax and given the soft touch Irish society has towards white collar crime these funds are likely to wasted.

I hope that the anti house charge protest can combine anti corruption as an equal standard in their cause.

why should goverment ministers be exempt, it is easy for phil the flute(r) to preach, why do our leaders ? not lead by example, they remind me of the military leaders of old, well behind the firing line, they are like the military leaders of the first world war, who wined and dined on christmas eve while tens of thousands were killed or maimed in one of the greatest massacres known to man.

fabbydabby

Ministers are not exempt from the household charge.

catbear

flutered wrote: »

why should goverment ministers be exempt,.

Why do you ask me that, where in my post did I say they exempt?

If you are still undecided about the Household Tax can I beg you one last time to pay it because I'd hate to see our Councillors starve, go without shelter or even end up pushing their car after it runs out of fuel.

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/local/600-for-food-and-travel-expenses-on-weekend-conference-1-3672504

up for anything

Davidian_ie wrote: »

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/local/600-for-food-and-travel-expenses-on-weekend-conference-1-3672504

I thought I was about as pissed off as I could get till I read that. Obviously the human heart has the same unlimited capacity for hatred of government and public service spongers and scroungers as it does for love when another baby comes along.

If I could afford a grave I'd be extremely restless in it.

foxcoverteddy

Well if the household charge is going to the council, I take it we are funding all of the member's to go to conferences, now that is not productive, who runs the conferences?
Are there relationships we should know about, after all it is our money they are spending in the luxury hotels./
Should there not be a ban on all this conference lark whilst so many people are having difficulty making the 100euro, and the council is spending it like it is going out of fashion, thanks Phil.
What expenses are the council workers going to get for knocking at doors?
Presume 95c a mile, would that apply to cyclist's?
I find it difficult to even contemplate supporting our TD in his time of need, when we have Kenny and other's going round the world, who is paying for this sight seeing trip,
What about the guy who went to the St Patricks day parade in the states bet he didn't pay,. and if they take the family who pays for them?
There is something rotten around, the quicker it is sorted the better.

femur61

Actually thought the house hold charge was to fund the government in its time of need. Didn't realise it was to fund our local councils with managers on their 6 week holidays. Pointless roadworks in the city. ripping up some of these pointless roadworks. We really need to erricate parish pump politics and vote for a government and not someone we know just because they can look after their buddies.

Well the general consensus is that Phil has made a complete balls up of this, so I guess the procedure now is that he will be rewarded with a job in Europe with a big fat pension to go with it. I'll predict with almost 100% certainty that he'll be in Brussels before Xmas. Hopefully Kevin Cardiff will have the time to show him the sites.

fabbydabby

The fact that our country is run by a parcel of incompetent morons is not a reason to avoid paying the household charge. It is a tax, just like stamp duty, VAT or capital acquisitions tax. Pay it.

Fianna Fail relied heavily on stamp duty to pay civil servants and politicians top salaries and they thought we would never stop building cardboard estates and selling them to each other at exponentially increasing prices, so they kept relying on it as part of their 'strategy'.

But why was there not uproar about this?

Property tax is FAR better than stamp duty from an economic point of view since it (in theory at least anyway) is a predictable form of revenue, unlike the stamp duty which as we all saw is extremely fickle.

Property tax is a standard tax in very many countries and I am 100% in favour of it.And if you have a problem with the fact that we are goverened by tweedle dumb and tweedle dee, why not vote them out, or run for election yourself, or campaign for a cause or individual you think will serve us better or do anyfking thing other than moaning and moaning online and ultimately capitulating and paying it anyway, plus penalties, plus interest.

If they were up front and told us truthfully what the money was going to be used for and what they foresaw as the eventual charge down the line, that would in some way win me over. They can never be up front about anything in this country. If they turned around and said that look we are ****ed and need a dig out for the country, would people mind paying e100 towards it this year, I'd have paid up. But they are trying to mug us off as usual and applying the usual subterfuge that seems to be par for doing things in Irish politics.

I appreciate your points fabby but I've got a right to moan. What Phil Hogan promised in his manifesto surrounding Local Government was just lies and deceit. He promised to eliminate the very things that annoy me so much about this country. He blatantly lied, so I'll exercise my democratic right to be a moaning, dishonest and reckless individual, just as you chose to be a subservient one.

fabbydabby

Being a dishonest and reckless individual does not affect Phil Hogan.

It affects me. It affects the other people who paid too. It also affects the people who need care and those and in hospitals and a hundred other things tax is used for.

Your dispute is with the people in charge, (and God knows I agree with an awful lot of what you are saying) but choosing to not pay a particular tax... a vital tax, just because you don't like the personalities or methodologies behind its administration does not make any sense.

So I'm responsible for all the waste in those departments, all the expense abuses in the system, mismanagement. Eliminate them, streamline councils and I'll gladly pay. You are asking me to throw e100 into a black hole. It's like giving money to a charity, the people who need it most will never see it or get the full value of the contribution. Show me one change to local Govt. since FG/Lab took power and I'll get down to council offices and part with the tax first thing monday morning.

It's costing me e120 to fuel my car now per week and it's only a 1.4, add the road tax and insurance and I've already passed my breaking point. What do I do? Who is going to help me with this problem? My standard of living is so reduced that all I can look forward to tonight is going to The Pumphouse and hoping pints really are e2.50.

Have a nice weekend Fabby and I appreciate and respect your opinions.

Francis H Murphy

Have you seen the photograph of Big Phil - front page of the Irish Independent ?
If ever a picture could tell a story
Who does he think he is ..... Ronnie Briggs the great train robber !

What arrogance.
To pose for such a photo confirms how out of touch the man is with the real difficulties facing ordinary people. Little wonder people are so cynical about politicians. 1 year in and you can not tell the difference from FF - new bottle , old wine
Bring back Willie with his gun !!!
Shame

catbear

fabbydabby wrote: »

Your dispute is with the people in charge, (and God knows I agree with an awful lot of what you are saying) but choosing to not pay a particular tax... a vital tax, just because you don't like the personalities or methodologies behind its administration does not make any sense.

I believe in paying taxes but also accountability in public service. The problem with the methodology is that it's just another tax without a visible benefit. If it truly was a local tax then it should be collected locally but it's not, it's another state tax by a government that's incapable of prosecuting the likes of Sean Fitzpatrick to account.

Bring back Willie with his gun !!!

Willie O'Dea, Fianna Fail, put the debt of gamblers on the taxpayer, the cause of money being diverted away from essential services and you want them back in power?:(

foxcoverteddy

Catbear support you all the way, I reckon old Phil drew the short straw for this mob and they will ship him out as quick as possible.
I do not believe we should be giving money to the local council for the weekend away racket under the guise of conference's.
Who is running the conferences are they at the same hotel's, and why do these people have to spend so much of our money when most of the info is on the internet.
The petrol at 95c a mile is a nonsense, we are buying the car at that rate.
Come on get real people first before your greed,. who pays the bills us.
Catbear why do you not stand for the council, lets get some decent common sense prevailing and get the twisters out.
Well done.

catbear

Foxy with heavy heart I say I don't believe in Irish societies expectations of their elected representatives.

When property developers were gazumping ten years ago, there was no protest march against that greed.

When banks were approving liar loans five years ago there was no protest march against that lax regulation.

When the banks debts were underwritten by the state in Sept 08 there was no protest march against it then or in the weeks before the bill was ratified in the Dail.

Yet when the bill for these absences of civil care has to be paid, suddenly everyone is surprised. What's the point in running for public office if the minute that you're elected those who voted for you turn on you because you have still have to balance the books.

Why would anyone bring that on themselves? What would my campaign be, magic the debt away? I may as well try to pull a rabbit out of my backside.
That's my perspective.

Thanks for the thought though Foxy, I've been asked before but I had to decline as I knew if I spoke my mind I'd never be elected.