Should clubs be docked 1 point for conceding 5+ goals

Phoenix Park

I think this would be a step in the right direction. Take todays Wolves v Man Utd game for example. I'm not saying Wolves aren't trying, in fact they are playing fairly well with 10 men all things considered, but in general it would give sides that go three or four down a real reason to fight on.

It would reduce the outflow of fans early from games that are very one sided. Towards the end of the season it might make the relegation battle more exciting, the knowledge that a rival club could drop a point by getting a serious beating. Don't forget Man United, Arsenal and Spurs have all been beaten by 5 or more in the League this season, so it does happen occasionally to big sides too.


Fiorentina were awful last night at home to Juve even considering they were down to ten men and were 5 down with a full 18 minutes to go, and i watched Lazio being taken apart by Palermo a few weeks ago, both clubs that would usually harbour some hopes of European football (note Lazio scored at the end to "only" lose 5-1). So you you could not just take 3 points off a rival club with European aspirations, you could gain 4 on them. The crowds flowed out of the ground very early after the Fiorentina game,whether the potential of the humiliation of a docked point could have kept things more interesting. So maybe i will submit this idea to Sepp and Co rather than just the Premier League

I think it would keep things a bit more interesting at both ends of the table!

Sanity_Saviour

no

DB21

No, but there should be a bonus point for winning by 5 or more.

Phoenix Park

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

no

Thank you for the reply. There have been a few changes in recent years to make the game more exciting. The backpass rule being the main one, 3 points for a win instead of 2....i think this would be a natural development.

adox

Of course not.

Lord TSC

Losing by five goals, being humiliated and having your GD destroyed, should be motivation enough not to lose.

Phoenix Park

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Losing by five goals, being humiliated and having your GD destroyed, should be motivation enough not to lose.

It should be, but it often isn't.

steelcityblues

Teams should be fined for being out of their depth?

I'm sure Gordon Taylor or whoever would look at your proposal very seriously. :rolleyes:

Is this a serious question? Hope not...

greendom

It would kill lots of games stone dead; if a team concedes a few goals early on they'd be likely to strengthen their defence rather than risk losing an additional point.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

No they shouldn't it wouldn't make things more interesting it would make teams frightened

Friel

That's a ridiculous suggestion, sorry. Extra points depending on the amount of goals scored would be a natural progression if anything.

MagicMarker

DB21 wrote: »

No, but there should be a bonus point for winning by 5 or more.

Oooh, I like this.

Phoenix Park

rarnes1 wrote: »

Is this a serious question? Hope not...

Its not really rarnes to be honest...just an idea. I know it would never be enforced, but i'd like to see it. I still think it would be more exciting.

Will I Amnt

What if it's a 5-5 draw? :cool:
No points for either team??

greendom

Phoenix Park wrote: »

Its not really rarnes to be honest...just an idea. I know it would never be enforced, but i'd like to see it. I still think it would be more exciting.

Can you explain the more exciting bit? I just don't see it

Skid

Never going to work.

A team loses 5-0 on day 1 of the new season and ends the day on -1 points.

It won't benefit anyone by seeing teams at the bottom of the league with negative points.

Also, If a team loses 5-4 are you going to reward them by giving them -1 points for their efforts?

TaosHum

IMO, a loss is a loss and they should all carry the same distinction, which is 0 points.

Will I Amnt

BTW did this ever cross your mind ever before United win 5-0 today?

Mushy

cambo2008 wrote: »

BTW did this ever cross your mind ever before United win 5-0 today?

Or SgtPepper64 idiotic post in the match thread?

Phoenix Park

DB21 wrote: »

No, but there should be a bonus point for winning by 5 or more.

I disagree. The idea is not to motivate the winning team to beat their opponents more heavily (unless they are in a similar position in the league), but to keep the losing side trying more. The reality (maybe more in other leagues than the Premier League) is that some sides just give up when they go 3 down and the rest of the game becomes boring.

Phoenix Park

Skid wrote: »

Never going to work.

A team loses 5-0 on day 1 of the new season and ends the day on -1 points.

It won't benefit anyone by seeing teams at the bottom of the league with negative points.

Also, If a team loses 5-4 are you going to reward them by giving them -1 points for their efforts?

Whats wrong with the -1. Teams that have entered administration or been docked points for other reasons have had negative points. Do you still believe in the Y2K bug?

Skid

Phoenix Park wrote: »

Whats wrong with the -1. Teams that have entered administration or been docked points for other reasons have had negative points. Do you still believe in the Y2K bug?

No reason to humiliate teams at the bottom. 0 points is low enough.

The Y2K bug has more chance of occurring, even today, than this daft plan has of being implemented.

Omackeral

Phoenix Park wrote: »

Whats wrong with the -1. Teams that have entered administration or been docked points for other reasons have had negative points. Do you still believe in the Y2K bug?

That's because they broke the rules and were punished for it, Einstein.

Phoenix Park

Omackeral wrote: »

That's because they broke the rules and were punished for it, Einstein.

You're not wrong there.

Diabhal Beag

As long as we're going on with the Rabo Pro 12 points system can we give a half point for the team with the nicest hair?

Lord TSC

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

As long as we're going on with the Rabo Pro 12 points system can we give a half point for the team with the nicest hair?

Only if, each week, we give out three bonus points to the team with the most fans.

DB21

Phoenix Park wrote: »

I disagree. The idea is not to motivate the winning team to beat their opponents more heavily (unless they are in a similar position in the league), but to keep the losing side trying more. The reality (maybe more in other leagues than the Premier League) is that some sides just give up when they go 3 down and the rest of the game becomes boring.

IMO, it would motivate both teams. The winning team wouldn't shut up shop in a tough fixture after say 1-0 or 2-0, and the losing side would look to get one or two back so they don't lose an additional point.

Phoenix Park

DB21 wrote: »

IMO, it would motivate both teams. The winning team wouldn't shut up shop in a tough fixture after say 1-0 or 2-0, and the losing side would look to get one or two back so they don't lose an additional point.

Careful now, keep thinking that way and you'll make it two people that think it would be a better system, one of us is enough

gnfnrhead

I think extra points for more than a 5 goal winning margin (5-4 gets you nothing extra but 5-0 does) would be better. Once they get to two or three, a lot of teams are happy enough. If they know another few goals will get them extra points they'll keep pushing. It'll also help them focus on keeping the clean sheet too. Of course, this would open up a lot of conspiracy theories when a team wins by the exact amount they need to go top or move out of the relegation zone or whatever.

Don't see anything happening, but I'd rather extra points than deducting points. Reward rather than punishment.

Corholio

Phoenix Park wrote: »

I think this would be a step in the right direction. Take todays Wolves v Man Utd game for example. I'm not saying Wolves aren't trying, in fact they are playing fairly well with 10 men all things considered, but in general it would give sides that go three or four down a real reason to fight on.

It would reduce the outflow of fans early from games that are very one sided. Towards the end of the season it might make the relegation battle more exciting, the knowledge that a rival club could drop a point by getting a serious beating. Don't forget Man United, Arsenal and Spurs have all been beaten by 5 or more in the League this season, so it does happen occasionally to big sides too.


Fiorentina were awful last night at home to Juve even considering they were down to ten men and were 5 down with a full 18 minutes to go, and i watched Lazio being taken apart by Palermo a few weeks ago, both clubs that would usually harbour some hopes of European football (note Lazio scored at the end to "only" lose 5-1). So you you could not just take 3 points off a rival club with European aspirations, you could gain 4 on them. The crowds flowed out of the ground very early after the Fiorentina game,whether the potential of the humiliation of a docked point could have kept things more interesting. So maybe i will submit this idea to Sepp and Co rather than just the Premier League

I think it would keep things a bit more interesting at both ends of the table!

Have you played in a match where you lose by 5 goals or more? It can be difficult to have the same motivation as if it was 0-0, it's not lack or heart, it's just natural. Idea wouldn't work and I definitely wouldn't be in favour of it.

There seems to be be a few feathers ruffled as a result of Utd's result! I wonder if West Brom had have trounced Wigan 5-0 yesterday and Utd merely scrapped a 1-1 draw with Wolves today, would this thread exist?

I respect your idea Pheonix but just don't see it as a runner. Just seeing the few people mentioning it here, the awarding of a bonus point for victories of a certain margin is something that I'd be in favour of. Many teams in the Premier League in recent seasons have managed to put up a cricket score (somehow) against another team at some stage. A bonus point for a large winning margin would benefit a lot more teams, where the OP's proposal would mainly just wreak havoc on the relegation battlers, not withstanding the odd hammering of top teams. I still can't get it right in my head that City beat us 6-1 at home, or anywhere for that matter:D

RiseToTheTop

No, I like football as it is ATM.

We don't need an "Americanization" of the sport at all.

A team aims to win 3 points, if they play well they get 5 goals, simple as. It helps the striker who scores most get closer to top scorer for the season, that's an ample enough award IMO.

Sgt Pepper 64

Mushy wrote: »

Or SgtPepper64 idiotic post in the match thread?

And yet here are some people showing that they are indeed capable of discussing a "left of field" idea in a calm and intelligent manner.

As usual, I exposed those who can only mutter rude insults and dismissive remarks, with the expected thuggery tendencies u woukld expect to see on the terraces

Praise be to the boards minority who stand head and shoulders above them

My work continues

Will I Amnt

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

Mushy wrote: »

Or SgtPepper64 idiotic post in the match thread?

And yet here are some people showing that they are indeed capable of discussing a "left of field" idea in a calm and intelligent manner.

As usual, I exposed those who can only mutter rude insults and dismissive remarks, with the expected thuggery tendencies u woukld expect to see on the terraces

Praise be to the boards minority who stand head and shoulders above them

My work continues

No,a precious Liverpool fan hijacked your post and made a ridiculous thread out of it.

In fairness Sgt. Pepper, your OP screamed of someone who was utterly depressed at the Utd result:D I think it is hard enough on a team who gets trounced in a match without them getting docked a point also. Fair enough if a team evidently and deliberately lies down for another, actions should then be taken. But Wolves played with heart today and they were reduced to 10 men. It's just the nature of the game.

Sgt Pepper 64

stankratz wrote: »

In fairness Sgt. Pepper, your OP screamed of someone who was utterly depressed at the Utd result:D I think it is hard enough on a team who gets trounced in a match without them getting docked a point also. Fair enough if a team evidently and deliberately lies down for another, actions should then be taken. But Wolves played with heart today and they were reduced to 10 men. It's just the nature of the game.

I disagree with your assessment of Wolves playing with heart.

As someone who has no vested interest in who wins the league between the two, I feel robbed of the spectacle of an exciting finish somewhat

Wolves truly were woeful in set piece defending and indeed general defending

I agree theres no conspiracy and its just the way the cookie crumbles, but it was very timely and I do feel that Utd were handed an unfair advantage by Wolves not turning up

Sgt Pepper 64

cambo2008 wrote: »

No,a precious Liverpool fan hijacked your post and made a ridiculous thread out of it.

You call it ridiculous because you disagree with it.
Other people decided they would like to discuss it

Live with it

blatantrereg

Imagine how cheated they'd feel if they came back to scrape a draw after goign 5-0 down.

Mushy

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

And yet here are some people showing that they are indeed capable of discussing a "left of field" idea in a calm and intelligent manner.

As usual, I exposed those who can only mutter rude insults and dismissive remarks, with the expected thuggery tendencies u woukld expect to see on the terraces

Praise be to the boards minority who stand head and shoulders above them

My work continues

Well I was just asking the OP whether he had the idea or was it just bred from yout post in the United match thread.

Oddly enough Chelsea then went and scored 5 today too. I'd find the whole idea to be similar to the time Wolves got fined for using their squad. Hammerings happen, it can just be left at that.

kitakyushu

No I don't think teams should be punished for conceding too many goals. They're punished enough by losing the game and screwing up their goal difference. Most weak teams already play negatively enough without giving them yet another reason to put 10 behind the ball.

Will I Amnt

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

You call it ridiculous because you disagree with it.
Other people decided they would like to discuss it

Live with it

I call it ridiculous because if any of the other 19 teams in the league beat a 10 man Wolves team 5-0 this thread doesn't exist.

St.Spodo

We love football as it is so I'm always skeptical towards these gimmicks. We don't need them to enjoy the game. Leave that sort of thing to the Americans.

greendom

Phoenix Park wrote: »

Careful now, keep thinking that way and you'll make it two people that think it would be a better system, one of us is enough

Except I don't think DB21 has understood your idea. It's not that a team loses by 5 clear goals, just that they concede 5 goals. In your scenario, the losing team will shut up shop for fear of conceding 5. DB21's idea has slightly more merit, even though I don't agree with it either.

I can think of other reasons why a team should be docked points; Persistent racism by the fans, a reckless tackle resulting in the early retirement/long term injury of another player, but NEVER should a team be docked for just being shíte on the day and getting hammered by a far superior team. In fact lets just leave the 'points docking' the way it is, i.e. when a club goes into administration, which I think is harsh anyway.

Sgt. Pepper you will still get your exciting finish. By the time Utd play again, City could be 2 points ahead of us. The league is very far from over. I'm outta here now.

Phoenix Park

cambo2008 wrote: »

I call it ridiculous because if any of the other 19 teams in the league beat a 10 man Wolves team 5-0 this thread doesn't exist.

Cambo you are completely wrong. This was merely a novel idea, i was just interested to see what the general reaction would be, if anyone thought something similar might liven up "dead" games. The world doesn't revolve around Man U, the Fiorentina v Juve game i spoke of was much worse. I actually have no idea what Sgt Peppers other post in another thread was as i didn't open the other thread in the first place!

As a Liverpool fan yes i'll admit i'd rather see Wolves beat United than the other way around, but i didn't start this as some sort of anti-Man U thing so no need to accuse me of cheap points scoring or something.

Will I Amnt

Phoenix Park wrote: »

cambo2008 wrote: »

I call it ridiculous because if any of the other 19 teams in the league beat a 10 man Wolves team 5-0 this thread doesn't exist.

Cambo you are completely wrong. This was merely a novel idea, i was just interested to see what the general reaction would be, if anyone thought something similar might liven up "dead" games. The world doesn't revolve around Man U, the Fiorentina v Juve game i spoke of was much worse. I actually have no idea what Sgt Peppers other post in another thread was as i didn't open the other thread in the first place!

As a Liverpool fan yes i'll admit i'd rather see Wolves beat United than the other way around, but i didn't start this as some sort of anti-Man U thing so no need to accuse me of cheap points scoring or something.

You referenced the United v Wolves game in the second line of your op.
Is it coincidence then?
Would you have made the thread if United won 2-0?

stovelid

Absolutely.




In PlayStation games.

Adolf Hipster

To link todays match and this thread together is erroneous, as wolves didn't concede 5+.

stovelid

Next suggestion: small clubs not allowed to tackle mega club players in order to keep goal porn flowing.

Adolf Hipster

Adolf Hipster wrote: »

To link todays match and this thread together is erroneous, as wolves didn't concede 5+.

I've looked at this post for a good minute and thought about it, am I missing something?? Utd won 5-0, hence Wolves conceding 5, which also falls into the category of 5+.

P.S. I'd like to think that any disagreements we had in another thread won't spill over to this one or any others and we can still engage in discussion and debate.