Ferris biting allegations

Fishooks12

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2012/0317/1224313516629.html

Shocking if true

What kind of ban would be applicable if someone is cited ?

Henry Ford III

12 weeks - 4 years. Says so in the aticle you linked to.

Fishooks12

Henry Ford III wrote: »

12 weeks - 4 years. Says so in the aticle you linked to.

ha, woops!

If it's true I hope to god it's a big ban

No place for this in any game

Monty Burnz

Odds on Dylan Hartley being the biter?

Fishooks12

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Odds on Dylan Hartley being the biter?

Unfair to speculate on who it may be tbh

greendom

With all the shenanigans that go in in scrums, rucks and mauls isn't a little bit too much being made of this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OBlgSz8sSM

Fishooks12

greendom wrote: »

With all the shenanigans that go in in scrums, rucks and mauls isn't a little bit too much being made of this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OBlgSz8sSM

No

Biting is despicable

Hagz

I find it pretty amusing tbh. Dylan Hartley had his arm bitten by Pedrie Wannenburg in the HC QF last year, and the reaction of the commentators and viewers was "you deserve it for wrapping your arms around someone's neck". I don't think Wannenburg was cited even though the bite was clear as day.

Perhaps Dylan has been holding a grudge and looked for the nearest Ulster man to sink his teeth into. Doubt he'll be cited. I'd imagine it will be near impossible to find evidence of it happening.

ButtersSuki

Should be fairly easy to reognise the culprit depending on the other camera angles you'd assume are open to the citing commissioner/adjudicating panel. Looks like it happened at the ruck that formed on the 22m line from the 40ish second mark and you can see Ferris bring it to Owen's attention at the 1:06 mark. Owen can clearly be heard saying he's seen "a clear mark on a finger" in the chat with the captains at 1:32ish.

This could get very interesting.....or be swept under the carpet. Neither would surprise me tbh.

irishbucsfan

O'Callaghan clearly felt it was Hartley. Hardly a surprise if it is, has shown himself to be the sort of guy who would resort to that sort of scummy act in the past.

tolosenc

irishbucsfan wrote: »

O'Callaghan clearly felt it was Hartley. Hardly a surprise if it is, has shown himself to be the sort of guy who would resort to that sort of scummy act in the past.

Is that Hartley who comes in to the ruck (at 42 seconds in that video) from the English right-hand side? Can't really tell from those pictures but it does look like him. Whoever it is, that's the guy who bit Ferris.

A few years out minimum. Should be a career ending offence (as should gouging).

Hagz

tolosenc wrote: »

A few years out minimum. Should be a career ending offence (as should gouging).

Not a chance will that happen. Wannenburg didn't get a week, and you could actually see the bite then.

EDIT: this thread is actually annoying me now. It's just exposing how hypocritical Irish fans can be in relation to English players. Wannenburg does it to Hartley, and people on here laugh and joke about it. Hartley does it and he should be banned for life. It's like when people laughed at Ashton getting his had caved in by Tuilagi. It's embarrassing really.

Should it be a ban? If it's seen then yes, but it should be a similar ban to a gouge. But to say "scumbag" and banned for life is just childish.

d-gal

It's at the 45second mark and I'm 99% its Hartley. If its him he deserves to be banned for life, complete scumbag thing to do

shuffol

Talk of a ban of years or life is overboard, dirty act but the risk of serious injury is nil. Very difficult offence to punish at all, for all we know Ferris could've stuck his fingers in the English players mouth, in that case anybodys natural reaction would be to give them a nibble

irishbucsfan

Hagz wrote: »

tolosenc wrote: »

A few years out minimum. Should be a career ending offence (as should gouging).

Not a chance will that happen. Wannenburg didn't get a week, and you could actually see the bite then.

EDIT: this thread is actually annoying me now. It's just exposing how hypocritical Irish fans can be in relation to English players. Wannenburg does it to Hartley, and people on here laugh and joke about it. Hartley does it and he should be banned for life. It's like when people laughed at Ashton getting his had caved in by Tuilagi. It's embarrassing really.

Should it be a ban? If it's seen then yes, but it should be a similar ban to a gouge. But to say "scumbag" and banned for life is just childish.

Wannenberg was being choked. He should have been banned.

Hartley has a terrible record and this is just another reason to dislike the guy.

Kayless

Hartley is pure scum and its not the first time he has been seen to do this type of thing watch this -

like i said scum

irishbucsfan

In fairness it hardly compares to what Calum Clark just did.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Its such a ridiculous thing to do and deserves a ban. That said, I'd say that Ferris was probably fish-hooking Hartley's mouth and its very unlikely that he is an innocent party.

MungBean

From the looks of the replay there wont be any good view of the incident. So I doubt anything will come of it.

bleg

MungBean wrote: »

From the looks of the replay there wont be any good view of the incident. So I doubt anything will come of it.

BBC have reviewed the footage and found nothing. I think we should forget about it.

CatFromHue

I can't see anything from that clip and as Mungbean says there won't be any better angle.

It's just one players word against anothers now.

[Jackass]

Well you can't see it occur, obviously, but you can see the ruck in which it occurs, and you can see Ferris counter rucking against an English player, and it going to ground and Ferris appealing to the ref whilst on the ground, but not sufficient evidence for a ban sadly.

I can't be certain which English player it is, and annoyingly, I presume this is why the have a very faint outline of the number on the back of their jersey, because from that distance (and admitedly the poor quality of video) it is impossible to read the number on the back of the jersey of the player Ferris is involved with, even though that players back can be seen very briefly.

For future consideration, numbers should be clearly marked imo, not white on white with thin black outline and much smaller font than any other nation's numbers on their jerseys....





Sorry for mini rant :pac:

The_Kew_Tour

Just seeing Dylan Hartley on TV makes me want to punch the lad!!

am I the only one?

Flincher

[Jackass] wrote: »

Well you can't see it occur, obviously, but you can see the ruck in which it occurs, and you can see Ferris counter rucking against an English player, and it going to ground and Ferris appealing to the ref whilst on the ground, but not sufficient evidence for a ban sadly.

I can't be certain which English player it is, and annoyingly, I presume this is why the have a very faint outline of the number on the back of their jersey, because from that distance (and admitedly the poor quality of video) it is impossible to read the number on the back of the jersey of the player Ferris is involved with, even though that players back can be seen very briefly.

For future consideration, numbers should be clearly marked imo, not white on white with thin black outline and much smaller font than any other nation's numbers on their jerseys....

Sorry for mini rant :pac:

I agree with your point about the jerseys, but I think Hartley is definitely the player involved. He is pillar at the ruck which forms on the left side of the pitch at 35 seconds, and from there you can track his run to the left side of the ruck where it looks like the incident happened.

But yes, the numbers should be a lot clearer than the English ones.The strange this is that I don't think Saracens or France use them, and their kits are also supplied by Nike.

ButtersSuki

I'm pretty sure Ferris knows who did it, and by the look of the reaction of DOC and a couple of the ther Irish players as the play (and camera) moves away from the ruck I'm pretty sure a few more do too. I admire Ferris in one way for keeping a cool head whilst someone bit him, but at the same time I wonder why he doesn't use his free arm to pummel whoever is biting him in the face instead of raising it to appeal to Nigel Owens? Was it a case of worrying he'd be sent to the line (yellow or red) for the retaliation rather then the original crime?

It HAS to be one of the 2 English players at the ruck. I think Hartley is one (as pointed out by many posters here), but who is the other? Anyone able to identify him?

It would be nice if one of the Irish players named whoever the English player was who did this, but there's not a chance in hell that will happen.

I hope whoever did it gets cited and a ban, but I fear that even if he is cited there won't be conclusive evidence to give him a ban.

Failing that, I look forward to the next time one of two English players has an away game in Ravenhill. :rolleyes:

tolosenc

Hagz wrote: »

Not a chance will that happen. Wannenburg didn't get a week, and you could actually see the bite then.

EDIT: this thread is actually annoying me now. It's just exposing how hypocritical Irish fans can be in relation to English players. Wannenburg does it to Hartley, and people on here laugh and joke about it. Hartley does it and he should be banned for life. It's like when people laughed at Ashton getting his had caved in by Tuilagi. It's embarrassing really.

Should it be a ban? If it's seen then yes, but it should be a similar ban to a gouge. But to say "scumbag" and banned for life is just childish.

Do you not see the difference between the two though? Hartley was putting Wannenburg in danger, and Wannenburg had no other option in order to protect himself as his arms were stuck in the ruck.

In yesterday's incident, he appears to have been lying on top of Ferris and to have bitten him. He is dirt. He is scum. He should not be allowed to play again.

PhatPiggins

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Odds on Dylan Hartley being the biter?

1/4 on, Paddy Power aren't taking bets on it anymore

Monty Burnz

PhatPiggins wrote: »

1/4 on, Paddy Power aren't taking bets on it anymore

I'd just like to point out that I missed the episode during the game and hadn't seen a replay when I made that post, so it could (in theory) have been any one of the England team.

But there was one name that sprung to mind immediately...

Hagz

tolosenc wrote: »

Do you not see the difference between the two though? Hartley was putting Wannenburg in danger, and Wannenburg had no other option in order to protect himself as his arms were stuck in the ruck.

In yesterday's incident, he appears to have been lying on top of Ferris and to have bitten him. He is dirt. He is scum. He should not be allowed to play again.

No, and neither do you. There's nothing to say that Ferris wasn't putting Hartley in a dangerous situation. You cannot compare the two when you only know what happened in one of the instances. And aside from that, saying that Wannenburg had no other option is weak, his arms weren't stuck in a ruck, they were holding on to someone in a mall. Hartley had him in a dangerous headlock, but we don't know that Ferris wasn't doing something dangerous to Hartley.

Your last comment sums it up. People are being overly ridiculous about the whole thing because they don't like the person that is Hartley. He should not be allowed play again??? For what? As of this moment in time he did not bite anyone, because you nor anyone else can prove so. So at this moment and time, Dylan Hartley is innocent. Even if he wasn't, to be banned for life is an astounding piece of horse manure to come out with. It is far more dangerous to Spear or Gouge than it is to bite someone whilst wearing a gum shield. A lengthy ban of about 9 or 10 weeks is enough. But as of now, no-one bit anyone.

Flincher

ButtersSuki wrote: »

It HAS to be one of the 2 English players at the ruck. I think Hartley is one (as pointed out by many posters here), but who is the other? Anyone able to identify him?

I'm fairly sure the other player is Geoff Parling (based on the head of hair and the size of him when he rolls to the side of the ruck). He has spent considerably less time out of the game through suspension than his colleague.

Conas

From looking at the replay, it was Hartley. But I doubt he'll get a ban because you can't see the biting. But the way I'd look at it is, Ferris must have had his hand all over Hartley's face and mouth if he was able to bite him in the first place. If I was in a ruck and someone was pulling at my mouth with their fingers, I'd bite down hard.

pcworldisajoke

on the wannenberg thing, theres nothing hyocritical abotu any irish fans saying both things were different. Wannenbergs head was getting ripped off- hartley has form for this sort of biting too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBSD3S4NPDI

also, hartley has biting form...(one of the linked vids to that one)
it does seem that video poster doesnt like hartley a bit excessively, but then, who does like hartley?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utd6mda7BhY&context=C4251527ADvjVQa1PpcFMCl4XKAuhylBjaImDZAC0EF1dmyWiOYPA=

hartley bites someone in that

Hagz

In fairness, if someone had their fingers in my mouth in a rugby game, I'd give a bit of a bite down. That's probably all that happened with Ferris.

BBDBB

The lack of video from the BBC is not necessarily an end to the matter, based upon the Ulster game where Ferris (he's a magnet for the foul play, good on him) was gouged by Dupuy or Attoub, they used a series of still frames and the medical evidence to deliver a guilty verdict. I know a French fan who still has a chip on his shoulder about how unfair it was to do so.

jacothelad

BBDBB wrote: »

The lack of video from the BBC is not necessarily an end to the matter, based upon the Ulster game where Ferris (he's a magnet for the foul play, good on him) was gouged by Dupuy or Attoub, they used a series of still frames and the medical evidence to deliver a guilty verdict. I know a French fan who still has a chip on his shoulder about how unfair it was to do so.

Dupuy gouged him twice. This was clearly caught by the t.v. camera coverage. In a later incident Atoub gouged Ferris and his actions were caught in 33 successive frames by photographer John Dickson of Dickson Digital. He himself was attacked physically and spat upon in the return game by officials from Stade in front of witnesses in the press room after the match. Tigrans?

durkadurka

The biting commissioner will be all over this.

(c) harpin on rugby

Cpt_Blackbeard

jacothelad wrote: »

On what do you make this baseless accusation?

The most likely scenario for someone to bite your finger Would be if your finger is in or around the biters mouth.

leftleg

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

The most likely scenario for someone to bite your finger Would be if your finger is in or around your mouth.

Of course his hands were near; Fez cleared Hartley out of the ruck by his shoulders in order to take him off his feet.

You said he must have been fish hooking him or something. Now that's a complete guess if ive ever heard one.

Unless of course you were really close to the ruck and clearly saw Fez fish hooking the cheek of Hartley.

Cpt_Blackbeard

leftleg wrote: »

Of course his hands were near; Fez cleared Hartley out of the ruck by his shoulders in order to take him off his feet.

You said he must have been fish hooking him or something. Now that's a complete guess if ive ever heard one.

Unless of course you were really close to the ruck and clearly saw Fez fish hooking the cheek of Hartley.

Of course its a guess. I never phrased or intended it otherwise.

Otacon

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

...I'd say that Ferris was probably fish-hooking Hartley's mouth and its very unlikely that he is an innocent party.

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Of course its a guess. I never phrased or intended it otherwise.

No. Probably implies that it was likely the case. If you have said Ferris may have been fish-hooking then maybe. But no, you made an utterly baseless statement.

Fishooks12

Hartley has just be cited for the Ferris bite according to the Irish Times

Hardly surprising

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2012/0319/1224313568450.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

RGS

Sky sports are stating Hartley being cited for biting incident. No place in sport for that type of behaviour.

lets hope it does not degenerate into the farce that happened when closhessy was the victim in france where the investigation confirmed closhessy was biten but could't confirm if was a human bite.

JRant

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Hartley has just be cited for the Ferris bite according to the Irish Times

Hardly surprising

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2012/0319/1224313568450.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

It's going to be hard to convict on video alone in this one, unless they have some other images to go on. Not sure what will happen tbh.
What bugs me though was Owens lecturing Best at the time as well. What was that all about, he had a look at Ferris's finger, called over both captains and told both to get there act together. Now I could understand this if punches were thrown and wanted to calm things down but we were on the receiving end of 'suspected' serious foul play. I'm not going to start on referee's as they have a tough enough job but there does seem to be a recurring theme of our team coming out on the wrong side of 50/50's more often than not. That's not even taking into account 'wrong ball' Alan or Mr Pearson.

steve9859

I'm no fan of Hartley.....the only guy in this England team who is one of that "old" England that everyone hated. Him and Courtney Lawes

But if Ferris was bitten on the finger, his finger was obviously in Hartley's mouth at some stage. That is just a fact (or how do you get bitten?!). So they'd have to have footage that proved that Hartley wasn't being fish-hooked and that he went for the bite.

So I'm not sure that I see Hartley getting a ban for that.....unless there is video showing Hartley lunging at Ferris with his teeth I don't see that he would be found guilty

irishbucsfan

This is like when all the ridiculous people were giving out about Mike Tyson biting Holyfields ear. We all know that if Holyfield hadn't put his ear in Mike Tysons mouth there would have been no problems.

Fishooks12

steve9859 wrote: »

I'm no fan of Hartley.....the only guy in this England team who is one of that "old" England that everyone hated. Him and Courtney Lawes

But if Ferris was bitten on the finger, his finger was obviously in Hartley's mouth at some stage. That is just a fact (or how do you get bitten?!). So they'd have to have footage that proved that Hartley wasn't being fish-hooked and that he went for the bite.

So I'm not sure that I see Hartley getting a ban for that.....unless there is video showing Hartley lunging at Ferris with his teeth I don't see that he would be found guilty

I'm not sure about you but I can move my head to bite things that are out of reach!

Sindri

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I'm not sure about you but I can move my head to bite things that are out of reach!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YZDbeu2li8

steve9859

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I'm not sure about you but I can move my head to bite things that are out of reach!

I can't. I like my girlfriend to feed me.

no seriously.....read the rest of my post.....seriously like

Grimebox

This thread reminds me of that biased Welsh forum that people sometimes link to.

JRant

steve9859 wrote: »

I'm no fan of Hartley.....the only guy in this England team who is one of that "old" England that everyone hated. Him and Courtney Lawes

But if Ferris was bitten on the finger, his finger was obviously in Hartley's mouth at some stage. That is just a fact (or how do you get bitten?!). So they'd have to have footage that proved that Hartley wasn't being fish-hooked and that he went for the bite.

So I'm not sure that I see Hartley getting a ban for that.....unless there is video showing Hartley lunging at Ferris with his teeth I don't see that he would be found guilty

So if a player gets gouged it's there own fault for putting their eyes near another players fingers?
I don't see how they can ban him on that one video clip but there may well be stills or some other camera we're not privy to.

Tox56

Grimebox wrote: »

This thread reminds me of that biased Welsh forum that people sometimes link to.

In what way.