Time for a new coach, yay or nay

Almaviva

It was 70% yay, 30% nay back at the beginning of the championship.

So whats the verdict now folks ?

Tox56

What do you think.

justsomebloke

I think changes in the IRFU have to be made aswell as they are as much to blame as kidney, they have been pushing the results at all costs because of rankings for the next WC and as a result we are actually in the worst position possible

Superbus

Pie chart looks like pac man.

touts

Who are you going to replace him with. Some lads on here think having a Leinster schools tie is more important than a CV with grand slam and two HEC wins.

There is not a better qualified coach out there and now Kidney should be given the power to rebuild the team (he should have been given that after the world cup but world rankings this year for 3 years time meant he was told to finish 2nd or better at all costs) AND he needs power to veto NIQ contracts in the provences.

ScrubsfanChris

Deja vu....

Tox56

touts wrote: »

Who are you going to replace him with. Some lads on here think having a Leinster schools tie is more important than a CV with grand slam and two HEC wins.

There is not a better qualified coach out there and now Kidney should be given the power to rebuild the team (he should have been given that after the world cup but world rankings this year for 3 years time meant he was told to finish 2nd or better at all costs) AND he needs power to veto NIQ contracts in the provences.

Oh please.

thebaz

justsomebloke wrote: »

I think changes in the IRFU have to be made aswell as they are as much to blame as kidney, they have been pushing the results at all costs because of rankings for the next WC and as a result we are actually in the worst position possible

I blame the irfu for giving kidney the new contract , but kidney makes the selections and the supposed game plan

yes he gave us a grand slam , with a great team (inherited) , I'm sure he is a nice guy etc ., but time for a fresh approach , similar to the emergence of leinster recently - schmidth/cheika

Clegg

This is exactly how EOS lost his job. A poor 6 Nations and a hammering by England at Twickenham.

Kidney really needs to go but I very much doubt the IRFU will put him out of his misery. I bet Thornley will just write this off as a fluke loss. He's blind when it comes to Kidney.

Almaviva

touts wrote: »

There is not a better qualified coach out there

With a streak of three bad 6N and a poor world cup, there is probably no one else better disqualified than Kidney.

Piliger

I like kidney. I always liked him. He used to impress.

But he has failed miserably to produce a team greater than the sum of the parts.

THAT is the measure of a coach/manager. And by that measure he MUST go.

Cosmo Kramer

touts wrote: »

Who are you going to replace him with.

Joe Schmidt.

Tox56

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Joe Schmidt.

GET YER OWN!

*runs away with Schmidt*

kenco

Time to go not only for Kidney put for a number of 'key' players

Who did we beat here? Scotland and Italy......(at home....)

Wales won the slam and fair dues to them (makes up for the World Cup...) but they wont be looking back in 10 year time and thinking it was one of their classics.

This was a soft championship and the fact we only were able to beat two very mixed teams at home speaks volumes...

irishbucsfan

I think Kidney should go away and learn how to coach a team under the modern rules

yosser hughes

touts wrote: »

Who are you going to replace him with. Some lads on here think having a Leinster schools tie is more important than a CV with grand slam and two HEC wins.

There is not a better qualified coach out there and now Kidney should be given the power to rebuild the team (he should have been given that after the world cup but world rankings this year for 3 years time meant he was told to finish 2nd or better at all costs) AND he needs power to veto NIQ contracts in the provences.

Are you serious?:D Give me a break.

FionnRua

Who will the new coach pick?
Drop everyone and pick 15 new guys?
It's not the coach - look at the set up.

Benny Cake

For me, its this simple.

Q. Would Leinster win the 6 nations?
A. Yes

Q. On paper, are Ireland a better side than Leinster?
A. Yes.

Q. Is it Kidneys fault Irelands performances do not exceed those of Leinster?
A. Yes

Q. Should Kidney be sacked?
A. Yes.

FionnRua

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think Kidney should go away and learn how to coach a team under the modern rules

Yea and the bunch of players that he is currently selecting and their lack of skill
Doesn't have a bearig? Hang the coach because the players available arent good enough.
Great idea
You are starting to sound like des Cahill.
I cannot insult you any more than that

tolosenc

Benny Cake wrote: »

For me, its this simple.

Q. Would Leinster win the 6 nations?
A. Yes

Q. On paper, are Ireland a better side than Leinster?
A. Yes.

Q. Is it Kidneys fault Irelands performances do not exceed those of Leinster?
A. Yes

Q. Should Kidney be sacked?
A. Yes.

Spot on.

Leinster and Ulster would trounce Ireland. Munster would beat them too.

The madness has gone on long enough. We beat Italy and Scotland. Late tries against them from McFadden and Trimble are what kept us in 3rd and not 4th. Worst 6 Nations in 10 years. The team just look clueless and unmotivated at times. The players don't have confidence in the coaching staff, and that's why the coaching staff has to change.

Also, what on Earth was the reasoning behind bringing Reddan of for TOL? We have only looked threatening this year when Reddan was on the field, yet Kidney feels the need to limit his game time as much as possible.

Clegg

FionnRua wrote: »

Who will the new coach pick?
Drop everyone and pick 15 new guys?
It's not the coach - look at the set up.

No, it's definitely the coach. He's picking players who are out of form. Our backplay is still clueless and has been that way for at least 2 years now. Our backplay seems to be dependent our the backs conjuring a bit of magic. As a unit the backs just can't attack. There is no real gameplan.

We win our matches through the forwards. But when our forwards aren't doing the job we look awful. This is what happened today and it happened at the World Cup against Wales too. Thats all we seem to have in attack. Give it to the forwards. It's just not good enough.

This is the 3rd 6 nations in a row that we've been poor. At this stage we can't say it's just the players. They deserve some of the blame but we have to ask questions about why Kidney isn't getting the best out of the team.

touts

touts wrote: »

Who are you going to replace him with. Some lads on here think having a Leinster schools tie is more important than a CV with grand slam and two HEC wins.

There is not a better qualified coach out there and now Kidney should be given the power to rebuild the team (he should have been given that after the world cup but world rankings this year for 3 years time meant he was told to finish 2nd or better at all costs) AND he needs power to veto NIQ contracts in the provences.

Depends on your qualification methods.

Worst win loss rate in professional rugby? Check
Most abysmal transference of provincial dominance to international side? Check
Inability to deliver results that matter in the past 36 months? Check

Are you Declan in disguise?

CatFromHue

I think the management team is losing if they haven't already lost the dressing room to be honest. It looks an unhappy squad.

Kidney put alot of faith in O Leary today by bringing him on so early. This faith was not repayed and the other players on the team must be wondering what's the story. You could see it today on the pitch, he made a lot of mistakes and you could see the players getting pissed at it.

Sexton to 12 with McFadden only coming on with a few mins left on the wing and Wallace up North doing nothing makes no sense. The backs while not great today in general where impotent when this happened. Granted with the scrum going so badly we had little ball to work with in the second half but the ball we did have was wasted.

irishbucsfan

FionnRua wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think Kidney should go away and learn how to coach a team under the modern rules

Yea and the bunch of players that he is currently selecting and their lack of skill
Doesn't have a bearig? Hang the coach because the players available arent good enough.
Great idea
You are starting to sound like des Cahill.
I cannot insult you any more than that

21 of the 22 players in our squad today will be playing in the heineken cup quarter final on easter weekend. They must be awful.

Brian_Zeluz

Nick Mallet anyone?

irishbucsfan

Seamus Miniature Timber wrote: »

touts wrote: »

Who are you going to replace him with. Some lads on here think having a Leinster schools tie is more important than a CV with grand slam and two HEC wins.

There is not a better qualified coach out there and now Kidney should be given the power to rebuild the team (he should have been given that after the world cup but world rankings this year for 3 years time meant he was told to finish 2nd or better at all costs) AND he needs power to veto NIQ contracts in the provences.

Depends on your qualification methods.

Worst win loss rate in professional rugby? Check
Most abysmal transference of provincial dominance to international side? Check
Inability to deliver results that matter in the past 36 months? Check

Are you Declan in disguise?

He's a fully qualified teacher!

(But then so is Joe Schmidt)

yosser hughes

FionnRua wrote: »

Who will the new coach pick?
Drop everyone and pick 15 new guys?
It's not the coach - look at the set up.

Yea and the bunch of players that he is currently selecting and their lack of skill
Doesn't have a bearig?

A new coach hopefully would change his tactics.
A new coach would not pick players that should not be in the squad.
A new coach would not bring on T'OL and RO'G.

Time to move on.

I'm not sure what you're talking about to be honest. Most of our players play very well in the Heineken Cup and Rabo with considerable success. So there's something wrong elsewhere in the "set up"!
The bargaining chip that Deccie had for winning the Grand Slam has lost its currency. Thanks and all that Deccie, but your time is up.

edit: By the way,I'd have no problem bring on RO'G for Sexton if he's injured but otherwise I see no reason at all to do so. Having them both on the pitch is daft.

irishbucsfan

Kidney made 0 unforced changes this season. Incredible accomplishment

teednab-el

The last time we beat France in Paris in 2000 we had Gatland in charge. Why we got rid of him is beyond belief?

thomond2006

At club level Ireland is extremely strong with its provinces. Yet with Ireland, we massively underachieve.

Wales is the opposite, great national team despite poor performing regions.

The common denominator is....

justsomebloke

thomond2006 wrote: »

The common denominator is....

Off topic but......after the end of this season it is that they will let their stars go abroad yet still pick them, giving them a bigger pool of players to pick from

Sean Kinsella

touts wrote: »

Who are you going to replace him with.

There is not a better qualified coach out there and now Kidney should be given the power to rebuild the team (he should have been given that after the world cup but world rankings this year for 3 years time meant he was told to finish 2nd or better at all costs) .

I'm sorry, is this a joke?

The man has actually taken Ireland backwards in the wake of winning a slam (with another man's squad).

How about Mike Ruddock?

BTW, suggesting that Kidney should be given time to re-build, is like taking what remains of the Titanic, back to Belfast and asking them to have a 'think about lifeboats'.

Sean

Sindri

justsomebloke wrote: »

I think changes in the IRFU have to be made aswell as they are as much to blame as kidney, they have been pushing the results at all costs because of rankings for the next WC and as a result we are actually in the worst position possible

Yeah I think there is an innate conservatism in Irish rugby that is perpetuated by the IRFU. Certainly Kidney is a conservative coach and his brief (targets and goals) were first and foremost about our rankings which would encourage Kidney (like he needs any :rolleyes:) to play conservatively tactically and to continue to pick established internationals for what he would think, I imagine, is a consistent reliable team that are proven internationals, rather than take a risk and give youth a chance (the same youth winning H cups) and play a dynamic form of rugby which we are capable of (and in process maybe perform better than we did and maybe actually win something).

shuffol

I think the national side is affected by a culture of unaccountability that runs through Irish society. When the players play poorly their not held to account, Kidneys performs poorly and gets a new contract and the IRFU is accountable to no one. How many Irish broadsheet journalists tomorrow morning will say its time for Kidney to go.

Sindri

Also I think Kidney is probably a terrible motivator. He could bore a giraffe. Very little about him seems to be like the token middle aged man standing on the sideline at hurling matches and shouting abuse at the ref and his own team for being inadequately ****e.

dougieruggie

Heres what we need.

Someone from outside the Irish system. No Ruddock, no Foley and no Connor O'Shea.

Theres quite a few decent coaches knocking aboout. Nick Mallet being the obvious choice.

irishbucsfan

How is Conor OShea from within the Irish system? Worked for London Irish, then RFU, then Quins. Hardly going to be influenced by that.

I don't think he's the best candidate, but he's not from within the system.

thomond2006

justsomebloke wrote: »

Off topic but......after the end of this season it is that they will let their stars go abroad yet still pick them, giving them a bigger pool of players to pick from

Wales coach gets in many out of form players or players from out of form clubs, transforms them into a great international side.

Irish coach gets in in form players or players from in form clubs, but doesn't produce a team that is better than the sum of its parts.

Sean Kinsella

dougieruggie wrote: »

Heres what we need.

Someone from outside the Irish system. No Ruddock, no Foley and no Connor O'Shea.

Theres quite a few decent coaches knocking aboout. Nick Mallet being the obvious choice.

Ruddock is a decent coach and his Ireland team was actually competing for something on Friday night. Can you honestly say that happened today?

I agree about Foley and COS though. Nick Mallet would be good, but we're probably looking at Declan Kidney overseeing the Autumn internationals at the very least....:mad:

Sean

sid waddell

Wales, France and England all have better players than Ireland. It's as simple as that.

The Irish media and an Irish public which generally knows very little about the game have overhyped Irish rugby for years. The truth is that bar Brian O'Driscoll, those players weren't as good as they were made out to be. Wales have won three Grand Slams to Ireland's one over the last seven years and won them well. Ireland struggled over the line by the skin of their teeth to get their single Grand Slam. The proof is in the results.

Declan Kidney got about as much as could be realistically expected and more out of Ireland this season and he should certainly stay in the job.

Tox56

sid waddell wrote: »

Wales, France and England all have better players than Ireland. It's as simple as that.

The Irish media and an Irish public which generally knows very little about the game have overhyped Irish rugby for years. The truth is that bar Brian O'Driscoll, those players weren't as good as they were made out to be. Wales have won three Grand Slams to Ireland's one over the last seven years and won them well. Ireland struggled over the line by the skin of their teeth to get their single Grand Slam. The proof is in the results.

Declan Kidney got about as much as could be realistically expected and more out of Ireland this season and he should certainly stay in the job.

The irony of you talking about the Irish public "which generally knows very little about the game".

I would consider myself reasonably knowledgable, and this team is not reaching it's potential, nowhere near it.

13 of the 15 players in the Leinster Heineken Cup team are Irish, with 1 of the others about to become IQ. Our replacements for Ireland are Best and Bowe, arguably better.

Combining the resources of 3 provinces in the Quarter-Finals of the HEC should not result in beating only Scotland and Italy, both at home.

shuffol

Does anybody honestly believe that if Ireland sacked Kidney that he'd get a job with another Tier 1 international side or top club side?

Eoin

sid waddell wrote: »

Wales, France and England all have better players than Ireland. It's as simple as that.

The Irish media and an Irish public which generally knows very little about the game have overhyped Irish rugby for years. The truth is that bar Brian O'Driscoll, those players weren't as good as they were made out to be. Wales have won three Grand Slams to Ireland's one over the last seven years and won them well. Ireland struggled over the line by the skin of their teeth to get their single Grand Slam. The proof is in the results.

Declan Kidney got about as much as could be realistically expected and more out of Ireland this season and he should certainly stay in the job.

That does a huge injustice to some of our players who genuinely are top tier players. To say that we are already delivering as much as we can is silly.

Wales grand slam this year was hardly a cruise for them either.

teednab-el

Tox56 wrote: »

The irony of you talking about the Irish public "which generally knows very little about the game".

I would consider myself reasonably knowledgable, and this team is not reaching it's potential, nowhere near it.

13 of the 15 players in the Leinster Heineken Cup team are Irish, with 1 of the others about to become IQ. Our replacements for Ireland are Best and Bowe, arguably better.

Combining the resources of 3 provinces in the Quarter-Finals of the HEC should not result in beating only Scotland and Italy, both at home.

Sick of hearing this. The reality of the situation is that we are not good enough full stop. Wales and England are miles better at the moment. Our players are not as good as England Wales and France. How many more times does that have to be stated here?

tolosenc

sid waddell wrote: »

Wales, France and England all have better players than Ireland. It's as simple as that.

The Irish media and an Irish public which generally knows very little about the game have overhyped Irish rugby for years. The truth is that bar Brian O'Driscoll, those players weren't as good as they were made out to be. Wales have won three Grand Slams to Ireland's one over the last seven years and won them well. Ireland struggled over the line by the skin of their teeth to get their single Grand Slam. The proof is in the results.

Declan Kidney got about as much as could be realistically expected and more out of Ireland this season and he should certainly stay in the job.

Laughable. Ireland have better players than England and Wales, for a start. Declan Kidney has got nothing out of this team of top class players, the majority of whom play for the best team in Europe, for years.

shuffol wrote: »

Does anybody honestly believe that if Ireland sacked Kidney that he'd get a job with another Tier 1 international side or top club side?

Talk of him being lined up for the Lions job is now and was then utterly laughable.

tolosenc

teednab-el wrote: »

Sick of hearing this. The reality of the situation is that we are not good enough full stop. Wales and England are miles better at the moment. Our players are not as good as England Wales and France. How many more times does that have to be stated here?

No matter how many more times you state it here, it will not be true.

Eoin

teednab-el wrote: »

Sick of hearing this. The reality of the situation is that we are not good enough full stop. Wales and England are miles better at the moment.

Yes, but we SHOULD be good enough. We have the players, but we're not performing as we should.

teednab-el wrote: »

Our players are not as good as England Wales and France. How many more times does that have to be stated here?

This is just bollocks.

teednab-el

tolosenc wrote: »

No matter how many more times you state it here, it will not be true.

Does todays result make it more clearer for you?

irishbucsfan

teednab-el wrote: »

tolosenc wrote: »

No matter how many more times you state it here, it will not be true.

Does todays result make it more clearer for you?

2006, 2008, 2009 and 2011 heineken cup seasons.

sid waddell

Tox56 wrote: »

The irony of you talking about the Irish public "which generally knows very little about the game".

I would consider myself reasonably knowledgable, and this team is not reaching it's potential, nowhere near it.

13 of the 15 players in the Leinster Heineken Cup team are Irish, with 1 of the others about to become IQ. Our replacements for Ireland are Best and Bowe, arguably better.

Combining the resources of 3 provinces in the Quarter-Finals of the HEC should not result in beating only Scotland and Italy, both at home.

This season Ireland beat Australia at the World Cup and got an excellent draw away to France. That's the French team that lost the World Cup final by a point. Paris is a venue where every Irish team bar one has lost since 1972.

Ireland were playing for the fourth week on the bounce today. When combined with the fact that they were playing a superior team anyway, was anything else likely?

The Heinken Lager Beer Cup is not a form guide to international rugby. Everything is set up in the Irish teams' favour. Ireland has a higher concentration of available international talent in its European Cup teams than other countries have. These teams' whole season is built around Europe, unlike the English and French teams.

teednab-el

irishbucsfan wrote: »

2006, 2008, 2009 and 2011 heineken cup seasons.

Why are we going off topic? That has very little significance to the 6 Nations, thats a different competition to the Heineken Cup.