Tapping cars that get too close

WAPAIC

Does anyone else give a little tap on the side of a car if its getting too close to you in heavy traffic? Always done so when required, most drivers are happy to realise you are there before they drive over you. Its saved me from getting squashed against the kerb a good few times over the years. I'm talking a tap now, not to cause damage, just to highlight my presence to someone who isn't using their mirrors. It's a better option for the driver than being involved in a road traffic accident, I would have assumed. Causes absolutely no damage at all and is certainly better for me.

Did it last night in Dublin City Centre and the driver tried to knock me down and then abandoned his taxi to chase me on foot down the street. Pretty sure he left his customers in the car but I'm not positive. No number plate sadly, too busy trying to get away from the angry man. Hundreds of witness, it was all so ridiculous it was almost funny.

So to tap or to not to tap? I guess the third option is to not be in the dangerous position but it can be difficult to make progress in a busy city centre if that's the approach. Either way I'm off for a spin but I'd be interested to hear what the consensus:)

Eamonnator

The only time, that I would tap a car like that, is if I was looking for the reaction, that you got.

harvester of sorrow

If a cyclist ever tapped my car,id tap him,not so much of a tap more like a punch.

Idleater

harvester of sorrow wrote: »

If a cyclist ever tapped my car,id tap him,not so much of a tap more like a punch.

I wasn't going to post, but in response to this, in the occasions when I've done this in the past, the driver has gotten a minor heart attack and judder the steering wheel.
Be very careful when you do it, they have obviously little or no concern for other road users (as described above) so are unlikely to alter behaviour for the better.

Beasty

harvester of sorrow wrote: »

If a cyclist ever tapped my car,id tap him,not so much of a tap more like a punch.

No advocating violence.

Will I Amnt

Unless you're tapping out morse code explaining they're too close then it's just going to cause confusion.
Most would be wondering what the f**k is that idiot tapping on my car for.

monkeysnapper

harvester of sorrow wrote: »

If a cyclist ever tapped my car,id tap him,not so much of a tap more like a punch.

2 words... anger managment

boredatwork82

seriously. If you tapped on my window i would go bananas. Unless we agree that every time a stupid (not all but a good number) cyclists cuts across in front of me and weaving in and out of lanes and shoots up to close to my car in traffic giving me a heart attack i will just try and give him a little nudge with my car just to let him know he is too close.

You touch my car, my car touch you.

Denerick

Once when I was 'drink' cycling, coming home from dublin city centre at 3 in the morning, I cycled straight into a taxi. Luckily I tapped his window to apologise. I think he was just glad to get away from the crazy drunken cyclist with bags of remorse.

rich.d.berry

harvester of sorrow wrote: »

If a cyclist ever tapped my car,id tap him,not so much of a tap more like a punch.

Great first post in the cycling forum! :rolleyes:

LostCorkGuy

Yep , I give them a rap on the window occasionally , mostly on patricks street where there'll be some taxi pulling an illegal u turn with out looking ,, or reversing out into traffic ,
And op i'm not suprised it was a taxi driver who decided to chase you , most normal people acknowledge their mistake but taxis are a law upon themselves

Gingernuts31

harvester of sorrow wrote: »

If a cyclist ever tapped my car,id tap him,not so much of a tap more like a punch.

And if a cyclist did give your car a gentle tap because you were about to send him under your rear wheels you would be pissed at that? Well done.

rp

Given that the minimum safe overtaking distance is 1.5m, you must have very long arms to tap on a passing car!

Gingernuts31

One a roundabout the other day with a flourscent jacket on me, blikning LED light on the front of the bike and a truck pulls out on front of me towing what looked like some sort of conveyer on wheels that was about 50 ft long. I was literally 20 foot away from him when he decided to pull out. I kept up with him and when he stopped to turn right I was going straight, I banged on his passenger door and gave him the finger and you can't tell me it wasn't jusitifed. Lucky for me I was able to stop and so was the van behind me other wise id be either dead or injured.

Surveyor11

boredatwork82 wrote: »

seriously. If you tapped on my window i would go bananas. Unless we agree that every time a stupid (not all but a good number) cyclists cuts across in front of me and weaving in and out of lanes and shoots up to close to my car in traffic giving me a heart attack i will just try and give him a little nudge with my car just to let him know he is too close.

You touch my car, my car touch you.

totally overreactive, surprises me how selfish and inconsiderate comments can seem like the norm. I think a tap is fair enough where the drivers continuing unawareness of your presence is likely to cause serious injury. Lets just take it as that, and not some sort of challenge

Gingernuts31

rp wrote: »

Given that the minimum safe overtaking distance is 1.5m, you must have very long arms to tap on a passing car!

Haha you think all cars overtake at that distance? I've had mirrors clip my leg because they wont wait for a cap on a narrow road and i've also had cars that go onto the other side of the road to overtake. Under and over cautious.

rich.d.berry

My experience may be relevant to you OP, so permit me to relate my story.

When I first started commuting in traffic I would often find myself in situations where I would feel it necessary to make my presence known by tapping on the passenger window.

Around the same time I asked a question here on boards about negotiating a roundabout that I was having difficulty with and was advised by numerous people "not to pass on the left, but to command the lane and to pass on the right. Drivers are looking to the right when approaching a roundabout, because that's where the traffic is coming from, so it makes sense that they don't see you on the left".

I followed the advice, tentatively at first, but gained in confidence and now, because I tend to pass slow or stationary vehicles on the right, my window tapping has almost completely stopped. An added bonus is that left and right hooks have also reduced hugely.

tfitzgerald

I would not be happy if you tapped my window while I was driving in traffic it's not only up to the car driver to avoid accidents people on bikes should too

cyrusdvirus

my brother in law is a cyclist, and as he says it when he's out cycling, he's looking out for the next person that's going to try to kill him..

Gingernuts31 wrote: »

i've also had cars that go onto the other side of the road to overtake. Under and over cautious.[/QUOTE

So what would you prefer????:rolleyes:

I always give a good bit of space, and yeah, that means over the other side of the road if it's there. Why? Cos if you fall off your bike as i'm driving past you i want plenty of space.... in case your bike damages my paintwork;):p

The few times that i'm on 2 wheels i prefer the guy surrounde by 2 tonnes of metal to give me plenty of space.

Gingernuts31

tfitzgerald wrote: »

I would not be happy if you tapped my window while I was driving in traffic it's not only up to the car driver to avoid accidents people on bikes should too

Agreed but its up to every single person who walks, runs, drives, cycles on the road to prevent accidents. But I think the point the OP was making is that if a car is verving to the left more and more and nearly pushing him into a wall or pathway is it ok to tap the window. If vehicles did pay more attention to cyclists and used their mirrors and did keep a safe distance from them there would be no problem. I understand in dublin you have couriers that cycle and i've seen them, some of them will weave in and out of traffic without a care in the world but for the most part cyclist's know we have no protection if we get knocked off the bike, no bars or glass to protect us.

ThisRegard

What's with all the internet hardmen around here today, should they not be all in a ditch somewhere with their cans of bulmers at this time on St. Patricks day?

Gingernuts31

gatecrash wrote: »

my brother in law is a cyclist, and as he says it when he's out cycling, he's looking out for the next person that's going to try to kill him..

Gingernuts31 wrote: »

i've also had cars that go onto the other side of the road to overtake. Under and over cautious.[/QUOTE

So what would you prefer????:rolleyes:

I always give a good bit of space, and yeah, that means over the other side of the road if it's there. Why? Cos if you fall off your bike as i'm driving past you i want plenty of space.... in case your bike damages my paintwork;):p

The few times that i'm on 2 wheels i prefer the guy surrounde by 2 tonnes of metal to give me plenty of space.

No need to be sarcastic. Of course id perfere the person did give me plenty of room.

Gingernuts31

ThisRegard wrote: »

What's with all the internet hardmen around here today, should they not be all in a ditch somewhere with their cans of bulmers at this time on St. Patricks day?

Internet Hardman = Not me.
Ditch = Plenty of them around
Bulmers = Don't drink
Patricks day = Gimmick (parades,more than usual drunk people cause its patricks day, prices go up)

cyrusdvirus

Gingernuts31 wrote: »

No need to be sarcastic. Of course id perfere the person did give me plenty of room.

Then why make the point about over cautious? Why not say "the whole other side of the road is there, I'd prefer you to use it"

Gets the same point across wuthout the implied criticism.

Maybe I'm just being slightly over sensitive about it though.

cyrusdvirus

ThisRegard wrote: »

What's with all the internet hardmen around here today, should they not be all in a ditch somewhere with their cans of bulmers at this time on St. Patricks day?

Congratulations.

After that insightful remark and the brilliant point you made, you've just won the internet.

LostCorkGuy

ThisRegard wrote: »

What's with all the internet hardmen around here today, should they not be all in a ditch somewhere with their cans of bulmers at this time on St. Patricks day?

Going to be attacked for saying this :P

I reckon they're taxi drivers staying sober so as to ply their trade later on and they're sitting in their cars now browsing the cycling forum for some reason .....

ThisRegard

gatecrash wrote: »

Congratulations.

After that insightful remark and the brilliant point you made, you've just won the internet.

Nah, I won that a long time ago, that was just a reminder of how I did so.

Ted Mosby

rich.d.berry wrote: »

My experience may be relevant to you OP, so permit me to relate my story.

When I first started commuting in traffic I would often find myself in situations where I would feel it necessary to make my presence known by tapping on the passenger window.

Around the same time I asked a question here on boards about negotiating a roundabout that I was having difficulty with and was advised by numerous people "not to pass on the left, but to command the lane and to pass on the right. Drivers are looking to the right when approaching a roundabout, because that's where the traffic is coming from, so it makes sense that they don't see you on the left".

I followed the advice, tentatively at first, but gained in confidence and now, because I tend to pass slow or stationary vehicles on the right, my window tapping has almost completely stopped. An added bonus is that left and right hooks have also reduced hugely.

Yes, you are absolutely correct in this.

The Rules of the Road also state:

"Do not take up a position on the 'inside' of a large vehicle out of view of the driver. Instead, stay behind if the large vehicle has stopped at a junction with the intention of turning left."

This protects cyclists and eliminates any need for made up signals that at best can be misinterpreted.

Wishbone Ash

cambo2008 wrote: »

Most would be wondering what the f**k is that idiot tapping on my car for.

Bicycles aren't generally equipped with horns. I've had to do tap on a vehicle occasionally when it is edging into the cycle lane and squeezing me to the kerb. The usual reaction from the driver is to raise their hand to apologise and move out again. There is never any confusion. If you have difficulty interpreting a simple gesture like that I wonder if you are suitable to be driving at all.

boredatwork82 wrote: »

seriously. If you tapped on my window i would go bananas

Again, as above, I would doubt your suitability to be accessing public roads at all.

rp wrote: »

Given that the minimum safe overtaking distance is 1.5m, you must have very long arms to tap on a passing car!

The problem is that some drivers only allow 1.5cms. I've been struck twice by side mirrors on Grattan Bridge (Dublin) as drivers rush to the red light several metres ahead.

tfitzgerald wrote: »

it's not only up to the car driver to avoid accidents people on bikes should too

That's why the cyclist is tapping the window. Would you prefer the hassle of an accident?

leeroybrown

I wouldn't tap a car unless absolutely necessary. While you think it's just warning the driver that you're there it's also distracting them from the road, likely causing them to swerve towards you (many drivers will pull towards the distraction - it's natural) and potentially inciting a negative response. All of these of course shouldn't happen but anyone here who cycles in busy urban areas knows there are as many bad drivers as good drivers out there.

Mycroft H

I've only done it a few times. Coincidentally all to taxi drivers.

There was one occasion where a taxi driver tried to squeeze between me, a parked car on the verge of the bus lane and stopped traffic the driving lane. I tapped his back quarter panel as he tried to squeeze through.

He stopped and asked me "Why you hit my car", and I proceeded to explain that if I could touch your car when overtaking me, you have not given me enough room, at which point he said "Stupid cyclist, you do not know how to cycle". A laughed at this stage and decided this was going nowhere and pedaled on. He followed me, came up along my outside, shouting abuse and throwing coins at me. I tried to put some distance between him and lost him at traffic lights. However, he proceeded to follow me up the N11 tailgating me, quite intimidating. I lost him near belfield.

However, I've done it two other taxi drivers and both have been quite apologetic and understanding. Two sides of the coin I suppose.

Wishbone Ash

leeroybrown wrote: »

it's also distracting them from the road, likely causing them to swerve towards you

The OP is referring to congested traffic situations where an inattentive driver may be edging to the left. Many drivers get distracted at slow speed (changing CDs, texting, makeup etc.) Drivers don't generally "swerve" at slow speeds.

ednwireland

the only time ive done it is if someone squeezes me into other traffic (commuting in the uk) wouldnt do it if i thought someone is too close

and less of the advocating violence it gets you nowhere (

PurpleBee

Window tapping seems all very sensible in the protective bubble of the cycling forum but in real life if you're doing it simply to politely warn a motorist of potential danger... don't

Highway_To_Hell

I would sometimes tap on car windows if I feel they are encroaching in on me (usually they are trying to undertake a car in traffic) and I have never had some one get mad, there is usually an apologetic wave/nod as they were not aware of my position on the road. I see the tap on the window in the same way as a motorist would beep their car horn to let someone know of their presence.

HTH

rich.d.berry

PurpleBee wrote: »

Window tapping seems all very sensible in the protective bubble of the cycling forum but in real life if you're doing it simply to politely warn a motorist of potential danger... don't

Care to elaborate?

I think that facing the choice of having a scratched door panel or wing, an accident statement to complete and potential damage and injury claims, any reasonable motorist would appreciate the warning tap or knocks.

Anyone who finds themselves having the urge to go "tapping" on other vehicles while cycling should really just invest in a loud bell or an airzound. Would achieve the same effect without illiciting some of the psychotic over reactions to people touching their property that some of the internet hardmen have been displaying on this thread.

AltAccount

Tapping on a window (gently) seems like the equivalent of a short beep when someone's wandering into your space.

Mycroft H

Tapping cost nothing whereas an airzound is not cheap.

WAPAIC

Wow, lots of responses and quite a mixed bag too. Thanks for responding.

I'm surprised so many are advocating violence. Life must be one big stress-ball for you. You should try cycling, it's very relaxing and lots of fun.

This was all very low speed. He was doing maybe 5mph, I was going slightly faster on the inside with front and back led lights on a well light street. I believe this is legal (please quote the rules of the road if you disagree). It's certainly common enough.

If I hadn't drawn his attention to me, he would have almost certainly hit me. As it was, his car was maybe 2-4 inches from my handlebar. To be fair, given the speed involved its unlikely he would have caused me any serious injury but he may have marked his car by hitting if off my bike. He may well have exploded with rage if that happened.

I regret mentioning he was a taxi, the city is full of excellent taxi drivers and of course there is a few bad ones who you remember but this question is not about taxi drivers at all.

It seems like the answer is tap to warn if you really, really have to and be mindful that some drivers may react to this by accidentally swerving towards you rather than away and sadly some drivers may react with violence. But best to not be in that position at all.

WAPAIC

Just found this!

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=20105

Anyone have one? Do you leave it on the bike when it's locked up? It seem about as cool as a mirror on your helmet but I might get one:)

Tomk1

I've been on both sides as a cyclist and now a driver, I gave up cycling in cities as far too dangerous, cities are not designed for cyclists, it can be tough enough sometimes getting a car around on narrow lanes with cars double parked.
I always keep an eye out for cyclists and give them plenty of space, will not overtake untill I know it's safe, this does annoy drivers behind but we are forced to share the same roads, when I cycled in cities I often used the footpaths, walking with the bike when pedestrians were walking and then observed the rules of the road as a pedestrian, waiting for the green-man at lights.

There should be pedestrian/cycle-footpaths which would have to be provided for if there was a bicycle tax & licence (as rules of the road apply to all road users) but that's another issue.

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone who finds themselves having the urge to go "tapping" on other vehicles while cycling should really just invest in a loud bell or an airzound. Would achieve the same effect without illiciting some of the psychotic over reactions to people touching their property that some of the internet hardmen have been displaying on this thread.

I agree, a car has a horn to alert other road users of hazards, a driver doesn't wind down his window to tap! a cyclist/ other car, to let them know they're too near to their car.

Cycling is dangerous and frustrating, but if a car is moving in then, two choices, 1: brakes/slow down maybe wait for a clear road but better move to the drivers side to pass by (like motor-bikes which by law have to do in slow traffic in order to get to the stop-point at a red light) a driver is more aware of their right hand mirror. 2: keep on going, hope for best, and then let frustration turn to anger if it doesn't work out.

Apart from an absolute emergency, a cyclist should never touch another vehicle, if they believe they should have right of way or the driver is unaware, buy a hooter, that should work.

Recently I was driving on a street with parked cars, no cyclists around, I heard a shout 'hey!' there was a cyclist on the left side of the car trying to get by, I signaled that I spotted him, fast checked the traffic to make sure it was safe to move out and gave him plenty of room, he waved in thanks after passing by. I've no idea where he came from, but in slow traffic, a bike can stealthily zoom along, now if he 'tapped' my car, that really wouldn't of persuaded me to give him room, maybe a reactionary thought would be, of jamming on the brakes to 'politely' tap his bike, only a hyporthetical thought not action.

Wishbone Ash

Tomk1 wrote: »

Apart from an absolute emergency, a cyclist should never touch another vehicle

You don't consider being potentially 'squeezed' by 1500kgs an emergency?

Recently I was driving on a street with parked cars, no cyclists around, I heard a shout 'hey!' there was a cyclist on the left side of the car trying to get by, I signaled that I spotted him, fast checked the traffic to make sure it was safe to move out and gave him plenty of room

You've missed the point of the thread. We wouldn't tap a vehicle to get past it. A cyclist doesn't have a right to make progress. We would only tap a vehicle if it encroached into our space in a potentially dangerous manner.

Laisurg

harvester of sorrow wrote: »

If a cyclist ever tapped my car,id tap him,not so much of a tap more like a punch.

Really now? Even if you were driving badly and shoving him off the road...... :rolleyes:

kenmc

WAPAIC wrote: »

Just found this!

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=20105

Anyone have one? Do you leave it on the bike when it's locked up? It seem about as cool as a mirror on your helmet but I might get one:)

I have one for commuting. Very very useful for exactly the situation described in the OP. Or when a driver decided to not sit behind a right turning car for another 3 milliseconds and decides to go left up and over the kerb of the path instead. They're loud enough to be heard in a car.

I don't leave my bike locked up anywhere usually; the very very odd time I do, i take it off, along with lights.

tomasrojo

Tomk1 wrote: »

Cycling is dangerous and frustrating

It's subjective, but I couldn't disagree more.

John_Rambo

I knocked on a BMW passenger window one night stopped in traffic. Window rolls down.

Driver; "what the fooks your problem?"

Me; "You're lights are off and it's pitch dark out"

Driver; "oh, right"

Darkglasses

I realise its not the popular opinion, but I have no problem tapping cars if they're taking the piss. Have only had to do it with buses so far.

rich.d.berry

I'm sorry, but a lot of what you've stated is utter nonsense and I cannot let it go unanswered.

Tomk1 wrote: »

I've been on both sides as a cyclist and now a driver, I gave up cycling in cities as far too dangerous, cities are not designed for cyclists, it can be tough enough sometimes getting a car around on narrow lanes with cars double parked.

Cities, because of their compactness, are ideal for cyclists. Cities are far less capable of coping with privately owned cars than with privately owned bicycles. A bit of training and common sense makes cycling very safe. It's the cyclists who do the dangerous things that skew the statistics so badly, such as cycling in the door zone or not stopping at traffic lights. Most fatalities occur because of cyclists on the inside of left turning HGVs, despite all the publicity given to highlight the dangers, there are cyclist who continue to put their lives at risk.

Dublin as actually getting safer to cycle in. The number of deaths among pedestrians and cyclists decreased by 34 per cent between 2001 and 2009.

Tomk1 wrote: »

I always keep an eye out for cyclists and give them plenty of space, will not overtake untill I know it's safe, this does annoy drivers behind but we are forced to share the same roads, when I cycled in cities I often used the footpaths, walking with the bike when pedestrians were walking and then observed the rules of the road as a pedestrian, waiting for the green-man at lights.

Why would you cycle on the footpaths? It is both illegal and more dangerous than cycling on the road. And why do you feel that you can pick and choose which rules to obey?

Tomk1 wrote: »

There should be pedestrian/cycle-footpaths which would have to be provided for...

More nonsense. Mixed use pedestrian and cycle paths are more dangerous than cycling on the road.

Tomk1 wrote: »

...if there was a bicycle tax & licence (as rules of the road apply to all road users) but that's another issue.

What do rules of the road have to do with taxation? Cycling facilities should be paid for the same way that the roads are funded, out of general taxation. In fact, cyclists should be able to claim a tax rebate for their reduced burden on the public health service due to lower rates of cancer, diabetes and coronary heart disease.

Tomk1 wrote: »

I agree, a car has a horn to alert other road users of hazards, a driver doesn't wind down his window to tap! a cyclist/ other car, to let them know they're too near to their car.

And your point is? A bicycle bell is a legal requirement on bicycles not adapted for racing, but they are useless except to warn pedestrians who aren't walking with music blaring in their ears. An air horn, hooter or siren is illegal according to the statute books. So what choice does that leave a law-abiding cyclist?

Tomk1 wrote: »

Cycling is dangerous and frustrating,...

Then you were doing it wrong. If you were using a cheap heavy, uncomfortable bicycle shaped object (BSO) then I can see that you would have found it frustrating. The incorrect clothing can also make it uncomfortable and frustrating.

Do it right and it's one of the highlights of your day! Not only is it a great source of pleasure just for the exercise benefit, but also removes the frustration of sitting in the congestion. My commute by bicycle is quicker than by car.

Tomk1 wrote: »

...but if a car is moving in then, two choices, 1: brakes/slow down maybe wait for a clear road but better move to the drivers side to pass by (like motor-bikes which by law have to do in slow traffic in order to get to the stop-point at a red light) a driver is more aware of their right hand mirror.

We're on the same page here.

Tomk1 wrote: »

2: keep on going, hope for best, and then let frustration turn to anger if it doesn't work out.

I assume this is a bit of sarcasm.

Tomk1 wrote: »

Apart from an absolute emergency, a cyclist should never touch another vehicle, if they believe they should have right of way or the driver is unaware, buy a hooter, that should work.

As far as I was aware, since the opening post we have been discussing tapping on a window in an emergency. As already mentioned, a hooter is technically illegal on a bicycle.

Tomk1 wrote: »

Recently I was driving on a street with parked cars, no cyclists around, I heard a shout 'hey!' there was a cyclist on the left side of the car trying to get by, I signaled that I spotted him, fast checked the traffic to make sure it was safe to move out and gave him plenty of room, he waved in thanks after passing by. I've no idea where he came from, but in slow traffic, a bike can stealthily zoom along, now if he 'tapped' my car, that really wouldn't of persuaded me to give him room, maybe a reactionary thought would be, of jamming on the brakes to 'politely' tap his bike, only a hyporthetical thought not action.

If there was no cyclist around then how did you hear a cyclist shout "hey"?

However, you would have been well within your rights, unless you were infringing on a cycle lane, to ignore the cyclist's shout. He should either stay behind if he cannot get past, or pass on the right.

There are bad and rude cyclists just as there are bad and rude motorists. A tap under these circumstances is just being rude, but the discussion is not regarding perceived entitlement but about personal safety and avoiding a collision.

Tomk1

Tomk1 wrote: »

Cycling is dangerous and frustrating.

I'd have to disagree here as well. I find driving in city traffic infinitely more frustrating than cycling. I find my self thinking over and over "I'd be there by now if I'd cycled". Add to that the clusterfcuck that is trying to find parking in a city and cycling wins hands down for me for most short to medium journeys.

As for safety, it might feel dangerous but the stats aren't that bad. There are quite a few studies that show that the health benefits of cycling outweigh the risks something like 20 to 1.

Lumen

Tomk1's bizarre little essay just illustrates that there are some people for whom both driving and cycling are just too demanding. We have footpaths and public transport for these people.