2011 Census results - percentage of "catholics" disputed

UDP

2011 Census results will be out March 29th next (Thursday week).

Really hope there is a large drop in the number of people putting in Catholic and large rise in 'no religion' but I suspect I will be disappointed.

The results will be posted here:
http://www.cso.ie/en/census/index.html

Stercus Accidit

I read plenty of anecdotes regarding catholicism by mammy on the census and expect that will be represented. I will be surprised if there isn't a drop in religious affiliation though and a general increase in the non-religious category.

amacachi

I don't know why they bother with standardised forms for the census, if everyone just had to write a letter with certain details contained within I'm sure I along with half a dozen friends would've had the bloody results out by now.

GLaDOS

Roughly Catholicism came in at 87.3% in '06, Non religious was the 2nd biggest, at 4.2%.

Expect a small drop in Catholicism and a small rise in Non religious, maybe around 84% Catholic, 7% Non religious.

Dades

Until they stop including children in the bloody thing it's pointless.

I mean about 1/5th of the population are under 15, ffs.

boynesider

UDP wrote: »

2011 Census results will be out March 29th next (Thursday week).

Really hope there is a large drop in the number of people putting in Catholic and large rise in 'no religion' but I suspect I will be disappointed.

The results will be posted here:
http://www.cso.ie/en/census/index.html

Why do you hope that? Seem's strange and more than a little arrogant to claim to have a stake in other people's private consciousness

fisgon

boynesider wrote: »

Why do you hope that? Seem's strange and more than a little arrogant to claim to have a stake in other people's private consciousness

Can't claim to speak for the above poster, but a redcution in the number of catholics in census would be more honest, and honesty is a good thing, to put it simply. We all know that 87% of the population are not really catholic in any but the most vague sense, and in fact many of that 87% are not even believers of any kind. Marking 'Catholic' is simply a knee-jerk, thoughtless reaction for a lot of people.
The true figure for actual believing practicing catholics in this country would be closer to 40%.

boynesider

That's fair enough, but personally I couldn't care less if 99% of the population honestly believed in Santa Claus. As long as we remain a secular Republic I'm not sure why the personal faith of an individual merits any sort of public discussion.

I know plenty of good people who have sincerely put down 'Catholic' on their census form (despite being disgusted and repelled by what has gone on) and I wouldn't dare to suggest that society would in anyway be better off if they were to renounce their beliefs (which is essentially what is being implied by hoping there are less Catholics in the country)

amacachi

boynesider wrote: »

That's fair enough, but personally I couldn't care less if 99% of the population honestly believed in Santa Claus. As long as we remain a secular Republic I'm not sure why the personal faith of an individual merits any sort of public discussion.

I know plenty of good people who have sincerely put down 'Catholic' on their census form (despite being disgusted and repelled by what has gone on) and I wouldn't dare to suggest that society would in anyway be better off if they were to renounce their beliefs (which is essentially what is being implied by hoping there are less Catholics in the country)

There's loads who don't believe, that's the bloody point. They still call themselves "Catholic" and their false box-ticking leads to figures used to justify there being an overrepresentation of Catholicism in schools etc. in our "secular" Republic.

Dades

boynesider, the church and catholic groups use the *official* numbers as a stick to beat their drum with when they want to influence government policy.

The school system, as amacachi suggests, is the prime example of how they use the number of catholics to justify the discrimination that goes on there.

smcgiff

Didn't discuss the census with many people - only two and they don't believe in god, but still admitted to putting down catholic :rolleyes:

ShooterSF

I would love to see the statistics of how many forms were "accidentally" marked no religion and then "fixed".

aidan24326

fisgon wrote: »

Can't claim to speak for the above poster, but a redcution in the number of catholics in census would be more honest, and honesty is a good thing, to put it simply. We all know that 87% of the population are not really catholic in any but the most vague sense, and in fact many of that 87% are not even believers of any kind. Marking 'Catholic' is simply a knee-jerk, thoughtless reaction for a lot of people.
The true figure for actual believing practicing catholics in this country would be closer to 40%.

Would it even be that high?

I don't personally know a single person under the age of 35 who could be called a practising catholic. Then you factor in that kids under a certain age can fairly be classed as default 'no religion'.

Add in that many of the people who would call themselves catholic, even practising catholic, are not really, other than in the vaguest wish washiest sense.

All in all I'd say the number of bona fide practising catholics might be more in the region of 20% at a guess. Higher for the older age bracket, and significantly lower for the under 40 age group.

@boynesider
That's why it's a total misrepresentation when the census shows 87% catholic.

Rabidlamb

UDP wrote: »

2011 Census results will be out March 29th next (Thursday week).

Really hope there is a large drop in the number of people putting in Catholic and large rise in 'no religion' but I suspect I will be disappointed.

The results will be posted here:
http://www.cso.ie/en/census/index.html

Only 2 days to go.
2006 figures here http://census.cso.ie/Census/TableViewer/tableView.aspx?ReportId=74644

Zamboni

boynesider wrote: »

That's fair enough, but personally I couldn't care less if 99% of the population honestly believed in Santa Claus. As long as we remain a secular Republic I'm not sure why the personal faith of an individual merits any sort of public discussion.

Secular Republic?
Where do you live? Because it sure as hell ain't Ireland.

Penn

boynesider wrote: »

That's fair enough, but personally I couldn't care less if 99% of the population honestly believed in Santa Claus.

You would if the only way to get your child into a local school was to sprinkle sterile reindeer piss on their head

Irish_wolf

boynesider wrote: »

I know plenty of good people who have sincerely put down 'Catholic' on their census form (despite being disgusted and repelled by what has gone on) and I wouldn't dare to suggest that society would in anyway be better off if they were to renounce their beliefs (which is essentially what is being implied by hoping there are less Catholics in the country)

Which is exactly the problem. A friend of mine was shocked when I told him I put no-religion on the census. The chap doesnt believe in god himself, he has said so multiple times but doesnt consider himself atheist for some reason, yet he still put down Catholic on the census. It's ridiculous.

The government needs numbers of different religions so they can cater for the wants and needs of the public. If the census showed that 20% of the population had put down jedi, they would probably need to give special status to jedi temples around the country. While this may seem stupid I would honestly expect the government to provide for the needs of those who considered themselves jedi's if this was a fair and just soceity, and it's exactly why people should be honest about their religious affiliation on the census.

eoin5

Irish_wolf wrote: »

Which is exactly the problem. A friend of mine was shocked when I told him I put no-religion on the census. The chap doesnt believe in god himself, he has said so multiple times but doesnt consider himself atheist for some reason, yet he still put down Catholic on the census. It's ridiculous.

He admitted not believing in a god yet still put down catholic on the census. Intentionally lying on the census form. I think the fine for that is up to €25000..

Slightly hard one to collect that though, probably even as tough as the blasphemy law one :rolleyes:

Liamario

Some of the people I know who call themselves catholics, don't practice at all. One of them admitted to me that it was all bull****, but he still calls himself a catholic.

The point I'm making, is that the results of the census will be totally misleading and irrelevant.

These "Catholics" see catholicism as a cultural thing more so than a religious thing.
And, I'm confident that if they said they were catholics in the religious sense, it would only be of the a la carte sense.

fisgon

The importance of this figure was illustrated in the Frontline programme on secularism. The 87% number was quoted over and over, by pat kenny and by the various believers, as grounds for Catholicism being a majority in this country and being treated as such. No-one challenged the stat, and it hung there as some kind of barrier for secularists to get over.

Of course, as others have pointed out, this 87% is a mirage, a myth, the real figure is half that, if even. Yet once it's out there, it's usable by that tiny minority that want to see Catholicism cling on to the last vestiges of power. The sooner we get a real picture of the religious beliefs of the people of the country, the sooner we can have a chance at a sane, just society.

LoganIn

UDP wrote: »

2011 Census results will be out March 29th next (Thursday week).

Really hope there is a large drop in the number of people putting in Catholic and large rise in 'no religion' but I suspect I will be disappointed.

The results will be posted here:
http://www.cso.ie/en/census/index.html

Why do you really hope?
Each to their own after all. Doesnt matter what other peoples beliefs are. Only your own.

Galvasean

LoganIn wrote: »

Why do you really hope?
Each to their own after all. Doesnt matter what other peoples beliefs are. Only your own.

As has been explained countless times on this forum and indeed several times on this thread already(why oh why does nobody read before posting? urrrrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhh!!!!!!!!), it is to stop catholocism having a disproportionate amount of control/say in matters that effect all of us, eg: education.

LoganIn

Galvasean wrote: »

As has been explained countless times on this forum and indeed several times on this thread already(why oh why does nobody read before posting? urrrrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhh!!!!!!!!), it is to stop catholocism having a disproportionate amount of control/say in matters that effect all of us, eg: education.

Is it?
Is it really?
Does everyone who wish there will be less catholic entrys on the census feel that way because of the benefit for schools? or is it anti-religon atheist people supporting anything that means less religion in this world.

MrPudding

LoganIn wrote: »

Is it?
Is it really?
Does everyone who wish there will be less catholic entrys on the census feel that way because of the benefit for schools? or is it anti-religon atheist people supporting anything that means less religion in this world.

There is less religion in the world. We merely want it recorded.

MrP

UDP

I hope the figure is lower because I know that many people lie on the census stating that they are catholic when they neither attend mass nor believe catholic dogma. Most don't even believe in god and often those that do just say they believe "something" is probably there. Yet I see the 87% figure quoted time and time again and see how it is used by the rcc to back up their claim that they should control the vast majority of schools despite other surveys indicating that the majority of parents don't want that.

Beruthiel

LoganIn wrote: »

is it anti-religon atheist people supporting anything that means less religion in this world.

Yup. You've found us out. That's the real reason.
It has nothing to do with us wanting a secular country which includes everybody.
After all, minorities who have a different religion, or none at all, should shut up and put up.

Delirium

LoganIn wrote: »

Is it?
Is it really?
Does everyone who wish there will be less catholic entrys on the census feel that way because of the benefit for schools? or is it anti-religon atheist people supporting anything that means less religion in this world.

It's hardly anti-religion to call for people to honestly answer the question.

My dad for example doesn't believe in God but still identifies as Catholic. He seems to view religion as Catholic or Not-Catholic. :rolleyes: A lot of people just don't think about the question and automatically tick Catholic.

Penn

LoganIn wrote: »

Is it?
Is it really?
Does everyone who wish there will be less catholic entrys on the census feel that way because of the benefit for schools? or is it anti-religon atheist people supporting anything that means less religion in this world.

Schools would definitely be the main issue. A change in attitudes in society would be another. Make people realise that not everyone is automatically a Catholic, and that there is nothing wrong with not being a Catholic. Have things equal for all rather than biased towards Catholics because they are perceived to be a "vast majority", when really if you take away all the a) cultural Catholics, b) a la carte Catholics and c) non-believers who let their mammy put them down as Catholic just to keep the peace, then Catholics would no longer have a "vast majority". Possibly still a majority, but close enough for people to realise not everyone is Catholic.

Dades

fisgon wrote: »

The 87% number was quoted over and over, by pat kenny and by the various believers, as grounds for Catholicism being a majority in this country and being treated as such. No-one challenged the stat, and it hung there as some kind of barrier for secularists to get over.

I did - at the top of voice from the couch. Nobody listened, though.

Galvasean

LoganIn wrote: »

Is it?
Is it really?
Does everyone who wish there will be less catholic entrys on the census feel that way because of the benefit for schools? or is it anti-religon atheist people supporting anything that means less religion in this world.

As a matter of interest, if you discount a want for fairness in things like the school system, what would there being less religious people achieve for us atheists?

Zillah

LoganIn wrote: »

Is it?
Is it really?
Does everyone who wish there will be less catholic entrys on the census feel that way because of the benefit for schools? or is it anti-religon atheist people supporting anything that means less religion in this world.

As an anti-religion atheist person I'm all for less religion in this world.

Bannasidhe

Zillah wrote: »

As an anti-religion atheist person I'm all for less religion in this world.

with a side order of less clerics .

robindch

..must..resist..the..urge..to..say.."fewer..clerics"..

Bannasidhe

robindch wrote: »

..must..resist..the..urge..to..say.."fewer..clerics"..

Resist not the urge. Say it loud, say it proud!

Rabidlamb

Today's the day that Irish mammies will win out against the will of their children by skewing the results of the census.
I believe 87% was the Catholic figure from 2006, even allowing for the Mammy factor I'd expect to see this figure drop about 10%.
I'm prepared to be angry & personally march this 87% to mass next Sunday morning if there's not a considerable fall off.

Penn

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Today's the day that Irish mammies will win out against the will of their children by skewing the results of the census.
I believe 87% was the Catholic figure from 2006, even allowing for the Mammy factor I'd expect to see this figure drop about 10%.
I'm prepared to be angry & personally march this 87% to mass next Sunday morning if there's not a considerable fall off.

I'd say it'd still be in the 80% range, but I'm guessing 82%

PLACE YOUR BETS NOW!

lazygal

81.7%

Irish children need to grow a pair if their mammies are dictating. My brother made my mum change the form for his entry (he's the only one of us at home) and wasn't listening to her nonsense.

Rabidlamb

lazygal wrote: »

81.7%

Irish children need to grow a pair if their mammies are dictating. My brother made my mum change the form for his entry (he's the only one of us at home) and wasn't listening to her nonsense.

Well done your brother, he does realise however he has now denied himself a place in heaven, how empty his life must now be.:rolleyes:

77%

lazygal

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Well done your brother, he does realise however he has now denied himself a place in heaven, how empty his life must now be.:rolleyes:

Well I paved the way with a civil wedding ceremony and have already told her the sprog won't be having any magic water ceremonies!:D

Delirium

63.8%

and now I can live in a happy place until the official numbers dash my hopes :pac:

Father Damo

I would tick Catholic because despite not having a half clue of what its all about, not having any opinion yes or no on the existence of god or an afterlife (because that is how little I think about it), and not having been in a church in near on a decade, I find people who are so anti religion that they nearly have it as a religious belief in itself (with their Dawkins semi God and his biblical works that are the greatest prose written by man since sh1te knows what) to be so hilarious that to over represent the Catholic number on the census, knowing it annoys them, amuses me. Fifty years from now people will still be putting Catholic on the census form.

Why? A mix of Irish nationalism and the love of a christening/ confirmation/ wedding piss up I would bet. More power to them. I nearly feel a bit sorry for other West European cultures that have little to none of this type of tradition.

lazygal

Father Damo wrote: »

I would tick Catholic because despite not having a half clue of what its all about, not having any opinion yes or no on the existence of god or an afterlife (because that is how little I think about it), and not having been in a church in near on a decade, I find people who are so anti religion that they nearly have it as a religious belief to be so hilarious that to over represent the Catholic number on the census, knowing it annoys them, amuses me. Fifty years from now people will still be putting Catholic on the census form.

Why? A mix of Irish nationalism and the love of a christening/ confirmation/ wedding piss up I would bet. More power to them. I nearly feel a bit sorry for other West European cultures that have little to none of this type of tradition.

Is there a priest under that high horse?

Rabidlamb

lazygal wrote: »

Well I paved the way with a civil wedding ceremony and have already told her the sprog won't be having any magic water ceremonies!:D

Snap, I've 2 non-baptised Satan worshiping heathens & another on the way.
I let her do a home baptism though cause in my eyes it was just splashing water on a babies head, as long as she dried it up afterwards.

lazygal

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Snap, I've 2 non-baptised Satan worshiping heathens & another on the way.
I let her do a home baptism though cause in my eyes it was just splashing water on a babies head, as long as she dried it up afterwards.

I told my mum she can only do it if she goes through the full training programme and gets the robes. She, like most a la carte Irish Catholics, couldn't explain why it was necessary to have a man in a dress splash water on our child so she lost the battle. Not that I was ever going to give in anyway.

Father Damo

lazygal wrote: »

Is there a priest under that high horse?

God no. As said I have absoloutely no opinion on the legitimacy of any religious faith (bar Scientology and Kabbalah, for which I believe a certain degree of retardation is required and for whos followers I have not one iota of respect.)

But I find politicised athiesm in probably the European country where extreme religious beliefs have the least impact on todays society (when you think of the recent events in France, the Danish cartoons, the right wing Christian in Norway) to be pathetic. It was all very relevant in the days of industrial school abuse and magdalene laundries but seeing as that has been all dead for 20 years and the church has zero grip on anyone under 50 in todays Ireland, it is all just a bit silly.

Father Damo

Father Damo wrote: »

and the church has zero grip on anyone under 50 in todays Ireland, it is all just a bit silly.

except all the kids.

i also boggle a little at everyone thinking if you're not catholic, & if you want people who are not catholic to declare as much, you must be an atheist

lazygal

Father Damo wrote: »

God no. As said I have absoloutely no opinion on the legitimacy of any religious faith (bar Scientology and Kabbalah, for which I believe a certain degree of retardation is required and for whos followers I have not one iota of respect.)

But I find politicised athiesm in probably the European country where extreme religious beliefs have the least impact on todays society (when you think of the recent events in France, the Danish cartoons, the right wing Christian in Norway) to be pathetic. It was all very relevant in the days of industrial school abuse and magdalene laundries but seeing as that has been all dead for 20 years and the church has zero grip on anyone under 50 in todays Ireland, it is all just a bit silly.

The Catholic church has a grip on 92% of our schools. And I, for one, like Margaret Thatcher in the Iron Lady on the Falklands, want them back. It leads to nonsensical situations where people I know who have done Count me Out and have no faith have to baptise their children into the church to get them an education.
But sure, you think its fine so that's okay.

Father Damo

bluewolf wrote: »

except all the kids.

We had absoloutely sod all religious instruction in national and secondary school throughout the 90s (the true last days of the church) and the early noughties. I remember my granny being quite suprised we didnt know what she regarded as some pretty basic stuff. Main reason being, it wasnt taught with any level of importance.

I can imagine in todays schools there is even less emphasis on it.

lazygal wrote: »

The Catholic church has a grip on 92% of our schools.

The fact it does shag all with this apparent grip has no relevance? Saying they have a grip on the schools is like saying the Queen runs Britain. Indeed she does, but if she decides to invade France it isnt actually going to happen is it. It is a symbolic role.

Penn

Father Damo wrote: »

I would tick Catholic because despite not having a half clue of what its all about, not having any opinion yes or no on the existence of god or an afterlife (because that is how little I think about it), and not having been in a church in near on a decade, I find people who are so anti religion that they nearly have it as a religious belief in itself (with their Dawkins semi God and his biblical works that are the greatest prose written by man since sh1te knows what) to be so hilarious that to over represent the Catholic number on the census, knowing it annoys them, amuses me. Fifty years from now people will still be putting Catholic on the census form.

Why? A mix of Irish nationalism and the love of a christening/ confirmation/ wedding piss up I would bet. More power to them. I nearly feel a bit sorry for other West European cultures that have little to none of this type of tradition.

Hahaha. I totally agree. Damn militant atheists wanting equality for everyone. Losers constantly bitching and moaning about how they have to drive their children 45 minutes to a school which isn't going to force religion on their children. Being mocked because they're not doing things the traditional way and getting married in a church or having their children baptised into a religion they can't get out of. And what reasons do they have for doing all this? Not believing in God. Shure that's no excuse. They can still pretend God exists and continue to add support to a morally bankrupt organisation which lauds itself as being the most moral organisation in the world. That's right brother, stick it to the man! People in other countries which aren't dominated by one religion that has way too much influence in the country don't know how unfortunate they are. Better to have the right to discriminate than have the right to be treated equally to everyone else, right?

Beruthiel

I'm going with 83.2% because there's a lot of Mammys and dumb people out there.