Has car design gone to the dogs?

The Tyre Dude

Anyone else getting kind of disinterested in the current crop of car designs?

Germany seem to be the worst offenders, Golf, Passat, new A3, A and B class, BMW 1 series, any Audi, these are really a low ebb. These are not challenging cars in the Bangle style, who at least had a vision, they are just criminally dull, or ugly, or ill proportioned.

Alfa still seem able to inject some passion into their designs, Renault seem to have some interesting things in the pipeline, but short of that I'm left scratching my head as to anything since the E60 5 series that changed the game.

The last car to catch my eye was the i40 which looks refreshing compared to the dross coming out of Europe. Sure they may date a bit quicker but at least there is some flair in evidence. I hope the emerging East will give our jaundiced Western designers a much needed kick up the backside.

brinty

have to say tyre dude i agree 100%.

Most car have been unchanged in their very basic design and layout in the past 10 years...you can almost tell what a car is before ye see a badge and plates...

and since the germans have taken over all the lesser european car makers all their cars have become generic...

Back before i had a car I always like the style of an A4 and said i'd love to drive/own one some day...i now have an '03 A4 which i personally think is stylish..but its showing its age now and am looking at trading but there's absolutely nothing which appeals to me..

Car makers seemed to have bent their knee to american markets and said make it bigger with less style and more content....

excaliburhc

i dont know if i agree
bmw / audi seem to playing it safe but other "smaller" manufacturers seem to be willing to try.


fords look stunning , opel range is gone from bland to stylish - honda have improved no end -the civic is a good looking car - even peugot / renault have joined in . maybe this was forced on them by hyundai and kia upping their game and stealing sales (especially in this current economy) but it is about time.

Fiona

If I had to go on looks and I had the money to buy a new car right now and I was standing on the North Rd in Finglas I am ashamed to say it I would be looking in Audi North rather than Joe Duffy

I am still not sold on the new modern bmw's but I can't help but find myself looking at the new Audi's in a strange way. I know nothing about their performance handling etc anything but they are very asthetically pleasing on the eye.

John_Rambo

We need;

The Italians to do the styling and noise.

The Germans to do the engineering.

The Japanese to do the reliability R&D.

The French to do the brakes and suspension.

The Swedes to do the safety.

The VAG advertising team to do the marketing.

If they can convince Audi's and VW's are attractive and not overpriced... they will sell anything.

Max Power1

excaliburhc wrote: »

i dont know if i agree
bmw / audi seem to playing it safe but other "smaller" manufacturers seem to be willing to try.


fords look stunning , opel range is gone from bland to stylish - honda have improved no end -the civic is a good looking car - even peugot / renault have joined in . maybe this was forced on them by hyundai and kia upping their game and stealing sales (especially in this current economy) but it is about time.

+1

The new opel range (and advertising) have taken it up a few notches. The new insignia, for example, is a very nice looking car indeed, and a design that German manufacturers of a higher pedigree would be proud of.

Although, I do like the new BMW 1 series, the rest of the range seems to be a copy paste enlarge of each other, the 3/5/7 series look exactly the same but blown up/shrunk!

BrensBenz

Each to their own but I still find myself staring in admiration at the lines of almost anything from Audi, Alfa, Citroen, etc. I know that under the panels lies Pandora’s Box but designers the world over have tried to satisfy the mass market by combining Southern European lines with Northern European safety, Far Eastern reliability and American cup-holders. In many instances, the result may be a camel, leaving us searching for a stallion. But many many people like and buy camels.
Just be grateful you’re not looking at the output of the 70’s.
Also, I remember walking to primary school, stopping and staring at the back of a Hillman Super Minx and thinking “that’s never going to be bettered”. Then I saw a Triumph Herald! Wow!

cabrwab

The last few cars to I take my interest on a design perspective have being an Alfa, Citroen, Honda, jag, now this is were I feel dirty, Kia, the new Kia optima is actually an alright looking car, when you look we're Kia have come from in the last few years.

My problem with Audi at the moment is they all look the same, I like them but I don't thi k they have gone out there and changed themselves.

I have being pondering this one recently too op and the conclusion I came too in my own head is something to do with safety and have all the safety regulations that need to be met before its safe for the road.

djimi

I cant think of more than handful of cars I can say I genuinely like since the last 90s tbh, but that might just be me! My last three cars have been late 90s Hondas which to me are some of the nicest cars of my lifetime.

djimi

cabrwab wrote: »

the new Kia optima is actually an alright looking car, when you look we're Kia have come from in the last few years.

First time Ive seen this car was when I looked it up now; it looks a lot like a Scirocco with a slightly different back end...

creedp

The Tyre Dude wrote: »

Anyone else getting kind of disinterested in the current crop of car designs?

Germany seem to be the worst offenders, Golf, Passat, new A3, A and B class, BMW 1 series, any Audi, these are really a low ebb. These are not challenging cars in the Bangle style, who at least had a vision, they are just criminally dull, or ugly, or ill proportioned.

I have to say that I think VW wins the prize for the most boring looking range of cars out there, in particular the new Passat and Golf. If ever a style resembled what a child would draw - all box shaped and straight lines - it is the VW Passat and yet everwhere you turn you see an 11 or 12 plate Passat. However, on the flip side the Nissan Joke is one of the most hideously styled cars on the road at the moment. I can only think that Nissan wasnted to introduce a shock factor into their design theme because I can't believe anyone actually signed off on that one thinking that's a good looking car! In between are the Hyundai's which I think are also over styled with too many unnecesary curves and creases, especially the ix35.

thirtythirty

Yes! There seems to be a single mold for hatchbacks and saloons that nearly every manufacturer is just taking and tweaking a line or vent here and there.

Even the civic which was a brand new look has been reined in closer to the focus/golf style with this new 9th generation. Citroen to be fair have been trying to break that a bit with their DS line.

Half of it I suspect is down to that damn NCAP nonsense which is trying to save the lives of stupid pedestrians who don't keep to the path and wander mindlessly onto the road, so manufacturers have to keep the grill above ankle slicers and have a nice "tumble over" windscreen/roof front.

The Tyre Dude

I have to laugh when I hear Adrian van Hooydonk go on about linking up the headlights and the grille on the new 3 series with a piece of chrome, as if it is some kind of event. You know things are bad when that is all you have to talk about.

leeroybrown

As spottyelephant alludes to, an awful lot of the homogenous design is down to current crash protection standards, particularly front pedestrian impacts. It gives manufacturers an awful lot less leeway on a standard production car if they want to get that all important five star Euro NCAP rating. The majority of older car designs we look back to fondly wouldn't even come close regardless of how good the engineering underneath was.

In addition to that the platform concept has been extended even further by manufacturers in recent years with cars based on the same underlying platform inheriting an almost similar look too despite there being no major economic reasons for it.

cgarrad

NO



Actual production car...

djimi

Looks like something out of 2015 Back To The Future!

leeroybrown

cgarrad wrote: »

Actual production car...

Yeah, but SSC hardly count as volume production and supercar makers tend to do whatever they want so long as they can get the car certified for road use. It's hardly representative of industry norms.

That and the Tuatara has a truly weird rear. It kinda looks like a transformer, only not in car form.

Matt Simis

The Tyre Dude wrote: »

Alfa still seem able to inject some passion into their designs, Renault seem to have some interesting things in the pipeline, but short of that I'm left scratching my head as to anything since the E60 5 series that changed the game.
.

Threads like this fail as you are mostly seeing paddy spec bottom of the range rubbish and not realising how much crossover in design teams and personel between Alfa, Seat/VAG and BMW.

The Tyre Dude wrote: »

The last car to catch my eye was the i40 which looks refreshing compared to the dross coming out of Europe. Sure they may date a bit quicker but at least there is some flair in evidence. I hope the emerging East will give our jaundiced Western designers a much needed kick up the backside.

Lol, Hyundai i40 caught your attention?! Oh the irony:

Joining the Hyundai i40 station wagon, the i40 sedan gets a European look .

Don’t expect it to come to the stateside because Hyundai said that the i40 is the “company’s first D-segment vehicle to be developed specifically for the European market, with a package of powertrains, equipment and technology tailored for European tastes.”

Its blatantly (and openly) a combination of 2 Euro designs from 5years ago, a small Ford CMAX or longer Opel Astra. Its fine looking, but there is nothing fresh about it at all, even in the slightlest. You really seem to be using blinkered anti-Euro goggles here.


The new 6 series is generally a well received car, especially in MSport form.

The Audi S5 is a nice looking car however most A5's we see are boggo spec with crap colours, tiny wheels that dont look wide or tall enough and smokey TDI exhausts. Incidentally the former Alfa head of design penned it for Audi.

The BMW 1 Series Coupe (as in the 1M) looks great but like the Audi A5/S5 it too gets criticised for being too different. So while you might think they need to keep randomly mixing things up, the buying public dont.

Leonard Hofstadter

Some modern cars look great - the new 3 series is one of them.

I am really excited by the new Peugeot 208 - fair play to them for managing to shave anything up to 175 kg off the weight of the 207 depending on the model!

The new Mazda6 concept also looks great too!

suzie987

I actually nearly got sick when I saw the ad for the new Volkswagen Up:



It makes me embarrassed to drive a Volkswagen car . . .

ShadowHearth

Dunno. I quite like a good few new cars out there.

Mazda 3 and 6 look fantastic.

New range of Opel Astras and insignias look great! The new 3 door one is a cracking little car with 1.4 petrol turbo engine! It should be alot of fun!

Then we got Citroen ds3 and ds4 which both look great.

I like it, now I wish I could afford to burn money on brand new car...

Tea_Bag

the new Ford mondeo looks promising.

Tea 1000

Matt Simis wrote: »

The BMW 1 Series Coupe (as in the 1M) looks great but like the Audi A5/S5 it too gets criticised for being too different. So while you might think they need to keep randomly mixing things up, the buying public dont.

I actually think that two cars that are among my bottom 20 ugly cars list are the A5 and 1-Series, in all their iterations. (Well, the sportback A5 is actually OK, but the coupe is not nicely proportioned.)

JoeA3

I'm in the minority here but I really like the clean lines and design of the Audi's and VW's. The current Golf, particularly in GTI/D form is very pleasing to my eyes (I admit, I am biased, I own one:) ). I prefer this. It's not fussy looking, it doesn't date as quickly as a more brash style, such as the Honda Civic.

To me, that Hyundai, while modern-ish looking, looks far too busy. Lines and bulges everywhere, it's trying way too hard! I think it will date quickly.

My Dad got a new Focus lately and it's a fine looking car too, but again Ford have gone a bit crazy with lines and swooshes everywhere! The original Focus got it spot on IMO and still looks pretty good to this day.

I met a new 1 series the other day in traffic. Horrendous ugly looking nose on it, looks like it belongs to a different car.

PrettyBoy

I agree most of the current Audi and BMW range are extremely unadventurous, the designers are playing it much too safe. Especially Audi IMO, but I suppose they've been like that for a long time, it's nothing new.

I think most of the FIAT and Alfa Romeo range are good looking cars and the 4C concept which is said to be going into production is absolutely incredible but I suppose we'll have to wait and see what the actual production model looks like.

The Maserati GranTurismo is probably the best looking car on sale today IMO. I know it's a big expensive Italian sports car but it's Porsche 911 money, not totally out of reach.

Not much else grabbing my attention these days to be honest besides the obvious mad money Italian stuff.

Bodhan

While the VAG group make great, practical cars the design factor leaves a lot to be desired. Most of VW is a copy and paste then zoom up a bit. I understand the family look but look at the current Polo, Golf and Passat front on and you'll struggle to tell the difference.
Audi make better cars in general and they are subtly different but the new A3 is the same as the old one.

Kia are doing good design thanks to Peter Shyrer, the new Optima is a very handsome car as is the Sportage and Rio, I'm not convinced about the Rio.

The ones that I think are doing something with design is Citroen. I'm not a big fan of how they drive; light steering and hard suspension for the French but the design of the DS5 is something different, same for most of the rest of the range. I love the DS3 Racing too.

BMW are too middle of the road now, the 3/5/7 all look the same, even the 6 series looks a little odd around the front.

Mercedes are good at the front but I loose the will to live looking at the back of an E Class. All the need now is, loose the old man badge and improve reliability and they might get somewhere.

Still I'd buy an A6 in the morning, there's just so much to love about it. 3.0ltr Quattro with DSG and S-line kit..done.

Matt Simis

Bodhan wrote: »

Kia are doing good design thanks to Peter Shyrer, the new Optima is a very handsome car as is the Sportage and Rio, I'm not convinced about the Rio.

Thats the rub though, the new Kia's look great (and the old ones utterly pants) but their designer is the same Peter Schreyer, not only a European, but until recently Audi's chief designer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Schreyer
His two most significant designs are the Audi A2 and Audi TT (mk1)

These threads about "Kia/Alfa designs are great and Audi's arent" make no sense as a small core of designers float between all the major marques and make all the designs.

Many people are critical of the VW "New" Beetle, however it was designed by J Mays, same guy who:

Mays has been involved in the design of several production models, including the Aston Martin DB9, Land Rover LR3/Discovery, Ford GT and Ford Shelby GT500.[1]

.

The aforementioned Audi A5 was described as "the most beautiful car I have ever designed" by the legendary Walter de'Silva, who designed the then groundbreaking Alfa 156 and brought styling to Seat. He also directed design on the current Golf and VW lineup.


The generally liked 406 Coupe was designed by ex-Pininfarina Italian Davide Arcangeli, the same guy who designed the E60 and E61 BMW 5series (wrongly called "bangle butts" after designer Chris Bangle).

Chris Bangle himself designed the fairly radical and I believe liked Fiat Coupe before moving to BMW (and becoming synomonous with that brand).


The Maserati MC12 was designed by Frank Stephenson.. who also designed the new Mini and the BMW X5.

Both "cool" EV car companies Fisker and Tesla have [significant] routes in BMW's design team.


To the point of the thread, well there is none, the same small core of people (not faceless companies) design everything, directly... or indirectly for the likes of some of the Asian brands who follow a "wait, copy but make it better" design approach.

dr.fuzzenstein

Car design right now is as good as I've seen it since the 70's.
80's cars where square boxes drawn with rulers and 90's cars just looked like piles of puke.
Just look at the Hyundai Accident, the original Mondeo, the infamous original Vectra, even Ferraris, Lamborghinis from the 90's (Diabolo) and Bugattis from that time look appalling nowadays.

Just savor the awfulness:



This looks like a sex doll:



This just is nowhere near as good looking as the Gallardo.



All current models of these cars (or their rough equivalent) are many times better looking than their 90's equivalents.
80's cars have fared little better, but I still love 70's cars and before.

John_Rambo

JoeA3 wrote: »

I really like the clean lines and design of the Audi's and VW's. The current Golf, particularly in GTI/D form is very pleasing to my eyes

Sometimes I forget that this isn't a motoring enthusiasts forum, but a motors furum.

JoeA3

John_Rambo wrote: »

Sometimes I forget that this isn't a motoring enthusiasts forum, but a motors furum.

I didn't ask you to agree with me :rolleyes: For what it's worth I do consider myself a motoring enthusiast. I forgot that everything VAG is considered the devils work on here!

Pdfile

John_Rambo wrote: »

The French to do the brakes and suspension.

folks give the french a hard time, but the 106/205/206/306 are pretty fun cars to drive, namely if you have the xsi models ( or VTS for citreon )

in terms of car design, ive yet to see anything that mkes me take a second glance in a long time....

dr.fuzzenstein

Good example for me:

1990s: (Dull IMO)



Present(ish): (fabulous looking thing, I want one!)

The Tyre Dude

Matt Simis wrote: »

These threads about "Kia/Alfa designs are great and Audi's arent" make no sense as a small core of designers float between all the major marques and make all the designs.

Nonsense. Firstly I'm not saying Kia/Alfa are great and Audi's are not. Secondly there is actually a large pool of designers, you just don't hear too much about most of them. To suggest a few of them float around and 'make all the designs' just silly and a massive simplification. While some designers are poached the work they do at their respective brands (De Silva arguably excluded) is very different. Look at what Laurent van den Acker tried to do at Mazda, and failed to, due to a very rigid approach to design verses what he is now doing a Renault where that company is trying to re-invent itself.

I'm not saying Euro design is bad, far from it, it is just at something of a dead end right now with few of the big players brave enough to go against the grain. These things are cyclical, and I have no doubt we will see some breakthrough Euro design in the next 5 years, but for now there is little to cheer about if you are a car designer or enthusiast.

dr.fuzzenstein

More 90's vs today:

How sh*t is that:



Now that is better:



1990's design really was terrible. You lot don't know how lucky you are.
As for anyone arguing:
You have to compare like with like.

dr.fuzzenstein

More examples? Sure!

Pile of puke:



Much better:



I dare anyone to tell me the 90's cars look better. I'm still nauseous from the decade that taste forgot.

Tea 1000

Matt Simis wrote: »

Thats the rub though, the new Kia's look great (and the old ones utterly pants) but their designer is the same Peter Schreyer, not only a European, but until recently Audi's chief designer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Schreyer
His two most significant designs are the Audi A2 and Audi TT (mk1)

These threads about "Kia/Alfa designs are great and Audi's arent" make no sense as a small core of designers float between all the major marques and make all the designs.

Many people are critical of the VW "New" Beetle, however it was designed by J Mays, same guy who:
.

The aforementioned Audi A5 was described as "the most beautiful car I have ever designed" by the legendary Walter de'Silva, who designed the then groundbreaking Alfa 156 and brought styling to Seat. He also directed design on the current Golf and VW lineup.


The generally liked 406 Coupe was designed by ex-Pininfarina Italian Davide Arcangeli, the same guy who designed the E60 and E61 BMW 5series (wrongly called "bangle butts" after designer Chris Bangle).

Chris Bangle himself designed the fairly radical and I believe liked Fiat Coupe before moving to BMW (and becoming synomonous with that brand).


The Maserati MC12 was designed by Frank Stephenson.. who also designed the new Mini and the BMW X5.

Both "cool" EV car companies Fisker and Tesla have [significant] routes in BMW's design team.


To the point of the thread, well there is none, the same small core of people (not faceless companies) design everything, directly... or indirectly for the likes of some of the Asian brands who follow a "wait, copy but make it better" design approach.

But you can't say something like "Well if you like that car and don't like the other car there then you're stupid because they're the same designer" because a car is either good looking or not, irrespective of designer.
And just because Audi got a designer on their team who in the past has some lovely cars to his name, doesn't mean that they give him free reign. They may say "OK, it has to have this nose, and it has to look like our family of cars" which straight away limits him.
This is the reason why I admire other companies like Alfa, or even I'd praise Honda for the likes of the Civic. They didn't have this "must be distinctly this way" attitude, meaning that a new car can look completely different to a previous one. Look at the difference between a 145 and a Mito for example, or any generation Civic versus the current one, and then look at the 90's Audi 100 and any today's model. Feck all difference.

dr.fuzzenstein

Best to argue with pics:
90's:



Now:

Tea 1000

You can't really knock 90's design too much. Some designs are "of their time" and fit in quite well, but look poor now. The Peugeot 405 looked great back in 1989. The Carina E looked great in 1992. The Punto that you posted above as being terrrible, had a kind of fresh continental design to it back in the mid-90's. That original Kia never looked good, and the Orion was kak also from day one. Lets never speak of shíte like the Mk3 Escort.

PhantomShrimp

Hopefully new Mazda 6:



Guh-zoinga!

:eek:

dr.fuzzenstein

Tea 1000 wrote: »

You can't really knock 90's design too much. Some designs are "of their time" and fit in quite well, but look poor now. The Peugeot 405 looked great back in 1989. The Carina E looked great in 1992. The Punto that you posted above as being terrrible, had a kind of fresh continental design to it back in the mid-90's. That original Kia never looked good, and the Orion was kak also from day one. Lets never speak of shíte like the Mk3 Escort.

The Pugs where fab in their day. Fiats where alright-ish, but never considered Carinas to be any great shake.
But none of them have aged well, unlike some 70's designs, which I still like.
My point is, you can compare the 70's, the 90's and the present day and the 90's will always come out worse, for some reason they where like a growing short hair long, no matter what you do with it, it will look kakck, especially when you look at the pictures 10 years later for that OMFG! effect.:D
The 80's where hit and miss (MKIII Escort, doesn't compare well to the MKI and II) and get bonus points for some of the more experimental stuff.

langdang

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Fiats where alright-ish, but never considered Carinas to be any great shake.
But none of them have aged well, unlike some 70's designs, which I still like.

Fiat Bravo, released in 1995 - pretty unbelievable considering a lot of the muck that passed for economy type cars back then. Way ahead of the styling of other cars at the time in my opinion, and still looks fresh. The punto of the day is pretty crap in comparison in fairness.



Edit, I am biased, I had one.

The Tyre Dude

The point is not how design today compares with design from the 90's. It's about current design trends and the general lack of real innovation or creativity.

langdang

The Tyre Dude wrote: »

The point is not how design today compares with design from the 90's. It's about current design trends and the general lack of real innovation or creativity.

It is out there, but very very few examples make their way as far as Ireland. I agree with you that the mainstream models are all morphing into one boring design.

I suppose emissions bands have an impact too - if they are removing spare tyres to bring down emissions, they will have ruled out any unique design/style quirks along the way if they produced negative results in simulated windtunnels etc.

Tea 1000

langdang wrote: »

It is out there, but very very few examples make their way as far as Ireland. I agree with you that the mainstream models are all morphing into one boring design.

I suppose emissions bands have an impact too - if they are removing spare tyres to bring down emissions, they will have ruled out any unique design/style quirks along the way if they produced negative results in simulated windtunnels etc.

The question is, seeing as platform sharing and modular platforms are becoming the norm, is modular designs also following from an economical reasoning?

CyberGhost

YES!

Majority of them are terrible!

New Toyota Avensis is terrible! And so was the previous design.

This one was and still is the best Avensis.



LandCruiser got ruined, I liked the previous model much more. This new one is needlessly "beefed up".

Golf doesn't look that great, that 05 model was better IMO.

Though, I have to say I really like the new 5 series BMW and Audi A6 designs.

PhantomShrimp

CyberGhost wrote: »

YES!


This one was and still is the best Avensis.

Had one. Totally agree. I am sorry I traded it for the piece of crap I traded it for. I believe the gentleman who bought it 5 years ago is still bombing around in it.

The Tyre Dude

Putting aside exotica one mainstream car stands out for me, I'll never forget the first the I saw it. At the time is was a huge leap forward and made everything else look old hat overnight, ironically an Audi, the 1983 100.

dgt

langdang wrote: »

Fiat Bravo, released in 1995 - pretty unbelievable considering a lot of the muck that passed for economy type cars back then. Way ahead of the styling of other cars at the time in my opinion, and still looks fresh. The punto of the day is pretty crap in comparison in fairness.



Edit, I am biased, I had one.

Beat me to it

Shame it never came with those lights as standard, it hasn't really aged atall since then

The mk1 Punto got very dated by about 2005 when the gp came out...

BTW top trumps, I had 3, still have 2 of my own. Total of 6 at one stage :pac:

A lot of 80s and 90s stuff was boxy, square. I kind of like that stuff...

Call me old fashioned but IMO this Mercedes


Aged far better than this Mercedes


No bias whatsoever :P

John_Rambo

JoeA3 wrote: »

I didn't ask you to agree with me :rolleyes: For what it's worth I do consider myself a motoring enthusiast. I forgot that everything VAG is considered the devils work on here!

I had a golf GTI. It was ok, some nice styling, some nice features. I wouldn't consider a deisel car an enthusiasts car to be honest. Sorry!

JoeA3

John_Rambo wrote: »

I had a golf GTI. It was ok, some nice styling, some nice features. I wouldn't consider a deisel car an enthusiasts car to be honest. Sorry!

Fair enough! I also had a MKV GTI. Loved that car. Sadly owning a larger engined petrol car has become way too cost prohibitive, enthusiast or not!

Someone else mentioned them here already... I really liked the Peugeot designs of the mid-late '90's. The 405, 406, 306 and particularly the 406 Coupe. Really nice cars, timeless designs. I hate most of their current fleet.

kqcregg

I think some of the new Volvo's look good like the V40 revealed at Geneva. A Golf / Focus rival worth considering.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/motorshows/geneva-motor-show/279406/volvo_v40_revealed.html