Estimating the cost of five traffic offences

maskabun

Guys,

Yesterday I was in hurry and drove through bus lane with the intention to take the next left turn but my bad! a Garda officer was standing there as if he was waiting for me. As he started asking me the things he wanted to check so my offences came on the surface one by one. I was in bus lane, offence number one. He asked me to show license, unfortunately it was in my bag pack that I forgot at home. So offense number two. Then he asked what type of license are you on I said Provisional, and the immediate question was that does the person besides you have full license? I said no, wow! offense number three. Then he asked where is your L plate? I said the front one flew away due to rain and wind but I have one at the rear (that was my poor defence), offence number four. He took my address and asked me to go to the Garda station with license and NCT report within 10 days. When the incident occurred my Car was with failed NCT due to the improper headlight but retest had already been booked, offence number five?

Now I am guessing what would be my total loss after this misfortunate incident?
around € 1500-2000 fine plus loss of no claim bonus may result into extra € 300-500?

Riskymove

why would you lose your no claim bonus?

maskabun

Riskymove wrote: »

why would you lose your no claim bonus?

If I get some points wouldn't it affect my no claim bonus? I think I'm wrong here.

Riskymove

maskabun wrote: »

If I get some points wouldn't it affect my no claim bonus? I think I'm wrong here.

ah right

Your insurance will go up alright of you get some points (usually more than 2 I think) but its not your no claims bonus that is affected, just your overall quote

Stinicker

You have ten days to produce your driving station at your local garda station so I don't think not having it on you is an offence...... Or at least that was the situation in the past.

B00MSTICK

I'd go to the NCT centre if you can and try get a cancellation before you go to the Garda station. Get a front L plate too.

If you're lucky you'll just get done for driving in a bus lane.

bigneacy

maskabun wrote: »

Guys,

Yesterday I was in hurry and drove through bus lane with the intention to take the next left turn but my bad! a Garda officer was standing there as if he was waiting for me. As he started asking me the things he wanted to check so my offences came on the surface one by one. I was in bus lane, offence number one. He asked me to show license, unfortunately it was in my bag pack that I forgot at home. So offense number two. Then he asked what type of license are you on I said Provisional, and the immediate question was that does the person besides you have full license? I said no, wow! offense number three. Then he asked where is your L plate? I said the front one flew away due to rain and wind but I have one at the rear (that was my poor defence), offence number four. He took my address and asked me to go to the Garda station with license and NCT report within 10 days. When the incident occurred my Car was with failed NCT due to the improper headlight but retest had already been booked, offence number five?

Now I am guessing what would be my total loss after this misfortunate incident?
around € 1500-2000 fine plus loss of no claim bonus may result into extra € 300-500?

I might be totally wrong but afaik a road traffic offence will usually result on a fine of €80?

If you book your car in for NCT and try to get it passed before 10 days. Otherwise you could try to reason with the Garda on production of your driving licence and NCT booking letter, maybe it doesn't have to result in a summons?

maskabun

maskabun wrote: »

...............NCT report within 10 days. When the incident occurred my Car was with failed NCT due to the improper headlight but retest had already been booked, offence number five?..............

Once the fail cert didn't highlight the car as being unroadworthy and the retest was booked you should be fine on that point I would think.

Francie Barrett

maskabun wrote: »

Guys,

Yesterday I was in hurry and drove through bus lane with the intention to take the next left turn but my bad! a Garda officer was standing there as if he was waiting for me. As he started asking me the things he wanted to check so my offences came on the surface one by one. I was in bus lane, offence number one. He asked me to show license, unfortunately it was in my bag pack that I forgot at home. So offense number two. Then he asked what type of license are you on I said Provisional, and the immediate question was that does the person besides you have full license? I said no, wow! offense number three. Then he asked where is your L plate? I said the front one flew away due to rain and wind but I have one at the rear (that was my poor defence), offence number four. He took my address and asked me to go to the Garda station with license and NCT report within 10 days. When the incident occurred my Car was with failed NCT due to the improper headlight but retest had already been booked, offence number five?

Now I am guessing what would be my total loss after this misfortunate incident?
around € 1500-2000 fine plus loss of no claim bonus may result into extra € 300-500?

I wouldn't worry about you not having your licence, that isn't an offence. However, driving unaccompanied and without L-plates means you're going to have a day in court and the penalty for that will be €2000. Luckily for you, there are no penalty points for this offence. Your next offence of driving with a failed NCT attracts 3 penalty points and will also get you a small fine (think €250 or so). Driving in a bus lane will attract 1-3 penalty points and a fixed fine of €80.

The worst case scenario is a fine of €2330 and 6 penalty points.

TestTransmission

Francie Barrett wrote: »

and 6 penalty points.

Nope,doesn't work that way

If it has been alleged that you have committed multiple Penalty Point offences in the same incident, only the highest value Penalty Points will be recorded on your driving licence record, e.g. if you pay two Fixed Charge Notices for having Crossed a Continuous White Line, which carries 1 Penalty Point on payment, and Failure to Wear a Safety-Belt, which carries 2 Penalty Points on payment, in the same incident, you will receive 2 Penalty Points for that incident.

http://www.garda.ie/controller.aspx?page=1654

Anan1

Francie Barrett wrote: »

However, driving unaccompanied and without L-plates means you're going to have a day in court and the penalty for that will be €2000. Luckily for you, there are no penalty points for this offence.

OP will have to inform their insurance company of any convictions.

Francie Barrett

This may not be appreciated by moderators, but here it goes.

1. You really, really should have your licence. According to this thread, you have been driving on the roads for at least two years. That is plenty of time to learn to drive, apply for your test, and get your full licence.
2. Surely you should have learned your lesson about not leaving your car in the bus lane inappropriately.
3. You have have form when it comes to being at fault for traffic accidents. You need to stop putting yourself into these situations and being so reckless.

I suggest that for now on, you stop driving unaccompanied, that you stop putting yourself into positions for which you are evidently unprepared for, and that you take lessons with an approved RSA driving instructor.

CiniO

Stinicker wrote: »

You have ten days to produce your driving station at your local garda station so I don't think not having it on you is an offence...... Or at least that was the situation in the past.

Francie Barrett wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about you not having your licence, that isn't an offence.

Of course it is an offence not to carry a licence with you when driving. It doesn't attract any fixed charge fine or penalty points afaik, but you surely can be fined for it in the court.

CiniO

RoverJames wrote: »

Once the fail cert didn't highlight the car as being unroadworthy and the retest was booked you should be fine on that point I would think.

From legal point of view, it was illegal for him to drive a vehicle without NCT, unless he was driving to the test centre for retest.

Francie Barrett

CiniO wrote: »

Of course it is an offence. It doesn't attract any fixed charge fine or penalty points afaik, but you surely can be fined for it in the court.

I should have elaborated. I meant it is not an offence to not have your licence on your person.

CiniO

Francie Barrett wrote: »

I should have elaborated. I meant it is not an offence to not have your licence on your person.

I should have elaborated too, and now I already did.(edited my last post)

That's what I meant. It is an offence not to carry a licence with you when driving.

tayto lover

It IS an offence not to have your Driving Licence with you it seems.

When you pass a driving test in Ireland you are entitled to apply for a driving licence for the category of vehicle which you were tested for. You are required to carry your driving licence with you at all times when driving.

The Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport has overall responsibility for driver licensing. The principal local authorities, however, are licensing authorities and issue driving licences. There are 29 licensing authorities (Motor Taxation Offices) around the country and you should make your application to the one nearest to where you live.

Mycroft H

maskabun wrote: »

Guys,

Yesterday I was in hurry and drove through bus lane with the intention to take the next left turn but my bad! a Garda officer was standing there as if he was waiting for me. As he started asking me the things he wanted to check so my offences came on the surface one by one. I was in bus lane, offence number one. He asked me to show license, unfortunately it was in my bag pack that I forgot at home. So offense number two. Then he asked what type of license are you on I said Provisional, and the immediate question was that does the person besides you have full license? I said no, wow! offense number three. Then he asked where is your L plate? I said the front one flew away due to rain and wind but I have one at the rear (that was my poor defence), offence number four. He took my address and asked me to go to the Garda station with license and NCT report within 10 days. When the incident occurred my Car was with failed NCT due to the improper headlight but retest had already been booked, offence number five?

Now I am guessing what would be my total loss after this misfortunate incident?
around € 1500-2000 fine plus loss of no claim bonus may result into extra € 300-500?

Now you've landed yourself in hot water with this one.

No NCT carries up 5 penelty points on conviction. Mandatory court appearance. I dunno if having a NCT by the time going to court will make a difference, you had none at the time of the offense but it will help the situation.

The driving unaccompanied and without L plates carry two separate fines of up to 1000 euros.

Driving in the bus lane is the least of your worries - 1 point and 80 euros fixed penelty notice.

Your premium will go up as you will have been convicted of motoring offenses and possible penalty points.

CiniO

CiniO wrote: »

From legal point of view, it was illegal for him to drive a vehicle without NCT, unless he was driving to the test centre for retest.

Anything to back that up ?

slimjimmc

Stinicker wrote: »

You have ten days to produce your driving station at your local garda station so I don't think not having it on you is an offence...... Or at least that was the situation in the past.

Francie Barrett wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about you not having your licence, that isn't an offence. However, driving unaccompanied and without L-plates means you're going to have a day in court and the penalty for that will be €2000. Luckily for you, there are no penalty points for this offence. Your next offence of driving with a failed NCT attracts 3 penalty points and will also get you a small fine (think €250 or so). Driving in a bus lane will attract 1-3 penalty points and a fixed fine of €80.

The worst case scenario is a fine of €2330 and 6 penalty points.

Failure to produce your licence or learner permit "there and then" on demand by a Garda is an offence but the Garda has discretion and you'll probably not be charged if you produce your licence at the station as instructed.

Act

“40.— (1) A member of the Garda Síochána may demand of a person—

(a) driving in a public place a mechanically propelled vehicle, or

(b) accompanying under regulations under this Act the holder of a learner permit while such holder is driving in a public place a mechanically propelled vehicle,

the production to him or her for his or her inspection of a driving licence then having effect and licensing the person to drive the vehicle. If the person refuses or fails so to produce the licence there and then, he or she commits an offence.

CiniO

Originally Posted by CiniO
From legal point of view, it was illegal for him to drive a vehicle without NCT, unless he was driving to the test centre for retest.

RoverJames wrote: »

Anything to back that up ?

Instead of finding something to back up the bold text, I found the opposite - something to deny it.

This is from NCT regulations from 1999 http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1999/en/si/0395.html

(2) Sub-article (1) shall not apply to a vehicle—


(a) which is an historic vehicle,


(b) which is solely used on an off-shore island,


(c) which is being driven to a test centre, for the purposes of having a test, or a re-test, carried out, for which an appointment had been made prior to the time of such driving,


(d) on the day on which a test certificate in respect of the said vehicle had been refused,


(e) which is a small public service vehicle in accordance with the Road Traffic (Public Service Vehicles) (Amendment) Regulations, 1995 ( S.I. No. 136 of 1995 )

And this confirms what I was saying.

But below is quote from NCT regulations from 2009.
And that part miracleously disappeared. http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2009/en/si/0567.html

(5) This Regulation does not apply to a vehicle—


(a) first registered prior to 1 January 1980,


(b) which is used solely on an off-shore island,


(c) on the day on which a test certificate in respect of the vehicle had been refused, or


(d) which is owned or operated by the Garda Síochána or the Defence Forces.

So I was wrong with that.
But obviously I assume it's clear that driving a vehicle without a valid NCT is an offence, even if vehicle is between test and retest.

TestTransmission

CiniO wrote: »

So I was wrong.

quoted

slimjimmc

RoverJames wrote: »

Anything to back that up ?

Road Traffic (National Car Test) Regulations
Sect 5 prohibits driving in a public place without a valid NCT disc.

Sect 3, para 2(c) exempts car being driven to the test centre for a test, and para 2(d) exempts any car for the day the car failed the test.

slimjimmc

slimjimmc wrote: »

Road Traffic (National Car Test) Regulations
Sect 5 prohibits driving in a public place without a valid NCT disc.

Sect 3, para 2(c) exempts car being driven to the test centre for a test, and para 2(d) exempts any car for the day the car failed the test.

Unless it's tagged as failed dangerous

corktina

i was under the impression there were 5 points for using a car with no NCt

Riskymove

slimjimmc wrote: »

RoverJames wrote: »

Anything to back that up ?

Road Traffic (National Car Test) Regulations
Sect 5 prohibits driving in a public place without a valid NCT disc.

Sect 3, para 2(c) exempts car being driven to the test centre for a test, and para 2(d) exempts any car for the day the car failed the test.

This only applies if the date of nct has passed

Most people do the test ahead of this so the period to retest is not a factor

PCPhoto

OP - best advice I can give is ... get everything together and upto date .... you will get a fine for driving in the bus lane in the next few weeks thats an €80 fine and thats it. (unless they brought in penalty points for it recently)

The other offences are what you should worry about

- failure to present your licence when asked for it ... this can be avoided by producing it ASAP at the relevant Garda station.
- driving without a full-licenced driver while on a learners permit will more than likely result in a court appearance and possibly a fine/ban.
- failing to display "L" plates I believe is a court appearance and fine ("L" plates are supposed to be inside the window so your excuse that it came off.... utter B0ll0x)

your insurance is likely to go through the roof following convictions/court appearance and endorsements on your licence....sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the road traffic laws are clear, I assume you know them and choose to abuse them...so... best of luck with it.

man.about.town

Offence 1: 60 or 80 euro fine, no penalty points

Offence 2: technically an offence but garda offered you ten days to produce so if you do that, there will be no offence, no fine etc..

Offence 3: again unlikely you'll be prosecuted for this

Offence 4: if it was on the back, it would be reasonable excuse that the front flew off, replace it and there will be no fine

Offence 5: as long as your nct is booked i wouldnt worry about it

maskabun

Lads,

I had booked the NCT test for today. voila! it passed.

maskabun

So today evening I went to Garda station, he asked the were you stopped I said yes, then he asked did the Garda check your insurance when you were stopped I said yes my car insurance was up to date. Then he said "Oh so you were just asked to produce your license and NCT report? I said yes. Then he noted the date and location of the incident and kept a photocopy of my license and NCT report and said that I have fed your record into the database now Garda will verify it.

So by this I guess the verdict is yet to come, finger crossed.

Mr Benevolent

I suggest that for now on, you stop driving unaccompanied, that you stop putting yourself into positions for which you are evidently unprepared for

Being a provisional driver doesn't mean he's stupid. Most Gardai will overlook driving unaccompanied as long as you're not doing anything stupid. I got stopped last night for a tax check and not a word was said about me driving unaccompanied (the big L plates were a clue).

To the OP, one thing you need to learn is that there's no point in hurrying when driving a car, it only causes accidents and mistakes.

Anan1

Confab wrote: »

Being a provisional driver doesn't mean he's stupid. Most Gardai will overlook driving unaccompanied as long as you're not doing anything stupid. I got stopped last night for a tax check and not a word was said about me driving unaccompanied (the big L plates were a clue).

To the OP, one thing you need to learn is that there's no point in hurrying when driving a car, it only causes accidents and mistakes.

Being a provisional driver doesn't mean the OP is stupid, but it does mean that they haven't yet proven themselves fit to drive unsupervised. We all had to learn some time, but driving unaccompanied on a provisional is illegal for good reason.

Mycroft H

Anan1 wrote: »

Being a provisional driver doesn't mean the OP is stupid, but it does mean that they haven't yet proven themselves fit to drive unsupervised. We all had to learn some time, but driving unaccompanied on a provisional is illegal for good reason.

*cough* learner permit *cough*

I tend to agree here on driving unaccompanied, you have no reason to do so. It really should be enforced more. Looks like you got away with it op.

slimjimmc

maskabun wrote: »

So today evening I went to Garda station, he asked the were you stopped I said yes, then he asked did the Garda check your insurance when you were stopped I said yes my car insurance was up to date. Then he said "Oh so you were just asked to produce your license and NCT report? I said yes. Then he noted the date and location of the incident and kept a photocopy of my license and NCT report and said that I have fed your record into the database now Garda will verify it.

So by this I guess the verdict is yet to come, finger crossed.

If there is any doubt that you need to show insurance, and that conversation hints there could be, I suggest you contact the requesting Garda and verify exactly what he asked you to produce at the station, he should have a record of the demand in his notebook and that's what he'll be working off when he's checking back in a few weeks. It's not unheard of for drivers to get summoned for failing to present all docs because either party cocked up.

maskabun

slimjimmc wrote: »

If there is any doubt that you need to show insurance, and that conversation hints there could be, I suggest you contact the requesting Garda and verify exactly what he asked you to produce at the station, he should have a record of the demand in his notebook and that's what he'll be working off when he's checking back in a few weeks. It's not unheard of for drivers to get summoned for failing to present all docs because either party cocked up.

No there is no doubt, I confirmed what he wanted me to produce at Garda station on the incident. And he did check tax, insurance and NCT disk.

teR_

Wow doomers in here!

If he was going to do you he would have said expect letters/summons at your address. Instead he gave you a chance to get your sh!t together and produce it. Seems like he was just trying to cop you on calling out the offences ..most are sound like that tbh

ps

put your license in your car and don't take it back out!

Oral Surgeon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVnplh7gnlU

maskabun wrote: »

Guys,

Yesterday I was in hurry and drove through bus lane with the intention to take the next left turn but my bad! a Garda officer was standing there as if he was waiting for me. As he started asking me the things he wanted to check so my offences came on the surface one by one. I was in bus lane, offence number one. He asked me to show license, unfortunately it was in my bag pack that I forgot at home. So offense number two. Then he asked what type of license are you on I said Provisional, and the immediate question was that does the person besides you have full license? I said no, wow! offense number three. Then he asked where is your L plate? I said the front one flew away due to rain and wind but I have one at the rear (that was my poor defence), offence number four. He took my address and asked me to go to the Garda station with license and NCT report within 10 days. When the incident occurred my Car was with failed NCT due to the improper headlight but retest had already been booked, offence number five?

Now I am guessing what would be my total loss after this misfortunate incident?
around € 1500-2000 fine plus loss of no claim bonus may result into extra € 300-500?

Anan1

teR_ wrote: »

Wow doomers in here!

If he was going to do you he would have said expect letters/summons at your address. Instead he gave you a chance to get your sh!t together and produce it. Seems like he was just trying to cop you on calling out the offences ..most are sound like that tbh

A few years ago i'd have agreed with you, but plenty of people are getting summonses these days for things they thought the Garda had let the away with. Time will tell.

Kevwoody

Personally I think he should have got 5 or 6 points and a hefty fine, it's clear that he has a very relaxed attitude towards his responsibilitys on the road.

What happens the next time he's in a hurry and decides to take a short cut? Some poor cyclist or pedestrian ends up stuck to his windscreen.

There is no excuse for this reckless behaviour, fair enough it's a minor enough offense, but if you get away with it once, you'll try something else and maybe not be so lucky.

How much is your insurance? When I started driving in 2002 my first premium was €4900, so I made damn sure everything else was legit

simply simple

Kevwoody wrote: »

There is no excuse for this reckless behaviour, fair enough it's a minor enough offense, but if you get away with it once, you'll try something else and maybe not be so lucky.

That's a lesson learned, such experiences make us get mature and sensible.

Kevwoody wrote: »

How much is your insurance? When I started driving in 2002 my first premium was €4900, so I made damn sure everything else was legit

My first premium was €900 it then got reduced to €500 in the following year.

shane.

anyone who drives alone with an L plate should be fined, if you were in an accident you insurance is basically null and void

AltAccount

NO it's not

Indricotherium

shane. wrote: »

anyone who drives alone with an L plate should be fined, if you were in an accident you insurance is basically null and void

When I started driving, I asked my insurance company was this the case and they said I was covered third party no matter what.

This was 2002 so things may have changed.

Mycroft H

Indricotherium wrote: »

When I started driving, I asked my insurance company was this the case and they said I was covered third party no matter what.

This was 2002 so things may have changed.

Correct. You have third party cover no matter what.

Indricotherium

BX 19 wrote: »

Indricotherium wrote: »

When I started driving, I asked my insurance company was this the case and they said I was covered third party no matter what.

This was 2002 so things may have changed.

Correct. You have third party cover no matter what.

I think the exact words of the broker were "you're covered third party if you're drink driving the wrong way down the motorway"

CarrickMcJoe

Riskymove wrote: »

why would you lose your no claim bonus?

Though OP was going to say he knocked down the Guard!

teR_

Anan1 wrote: »

A few years ago i'd have agreed with you, but plenty of people are getting summonses these days for things they thought the Garda had let the away with. Time will tell.

It all depends on the guard that pulls you. A friend of mine got pulled and was in a similar situation as the OP ..told the book was being thrown at him more or less by a very rude traffic cop (i was there) and that to expect a court summon. Week later €60 fine in the post, no court appearance. He had no tax, nct (booked), L plates or fully licensed driver.

maskabun

teR_ wrote: »

It all depends on the guard that pulls you. A friend of mine got pulled and was in a similar situation as the OP ..told the book was being thrown at him more or less by a very rude traffic cop (i was there) and that to expect a court summon. Week later €60 fine in the post, no court appearance. He had no tax, nct (booked), L plates or fully licensed driver.

You were right, today I got Fixed Charge Offence letter in post asking to pay €60.

How do I know if there is any point I have to bare by this offence, it is not mentioned in the letter anywhere.

shane.

AltAccount wrote: »

NO it's not

i meant if you were unaccompanied by a qualified driver, you may be covered for third party but if your vehicle is wrecked then your not covered for that, i wonder also if you crash into someone and injure them while driving alone as a learner driver could you be sued?

MickySticks

maskabun wrote: »

You were right, today I got Fixed Charge Offence letter in post asking to pay €60.

How do I know if there is any point I have to bare by this offence, it is not mentioned in the letter anywhere.

Pay the fine, it will save you a world of hardship.

Cookie_Monster

shane. wrote: »

i meant if you were unaccompanied by a qualified driver, you may be covered for third party but if your vehicle is wrecked then your not covered for that, i wonder also if you crash into someone and injure them while driving alone as a learner driver could you be sued?

you insurance will pay out and then they will come after you for costs