Project seeking to Protect Ireland's Peatland Bogs seeking public support

robp

Ireland’s raised bogs and blanket bogs represent the country’s last wilderness areas, yet there is vast and rapid destruction of these areas due to use for fuel on a domestic and industrial scale as well as use in horticulture. Over 99% of the original unique biodiversity of the raised bogs has already been lost and despite theoretical legal restrictions, uncontrolled cutting still continues. The project (which will go ahead with or without funding from EOCA, but on a vastly reduced scale, such is the urgency) aims to ensure cessation of turf cutting on protected bogs by providing accurate information to the EC, which is committed to bringing legal action against the Irish Government if the cutting continues in 2012. The project includes a public awareness campaign and support for the environmental representatives on a newly established Peatlands Council, including lobbying for a National Peatlands Park.

http://www.outdoorconservation.eu/project-voting-category.cfm?catid=3

Interesting project worthy of a few votes. Just follow the link to show your support. Voting continues to the 1st April.

Traonach

Signed. It is sad that there are probably more people outside the country who care about protecting our bogs than Irish people do:(.

johngalway

yet there is vast and rapid destruction of these areas due to use for fuel on a domestic and industrial scale as well as use in horticulture.

People should be allowed to cut turf for their own use.

robp

johngalway wrote: »

People should be allowed to cut turf for their own use.

I have never heard that distinction being made. I certainly have never heard it from the turf cutter association. When they say 'domestic' I am believe they refer to commercial cutting done by farmers or who ever. What difference does intent make to nature.

I can't speak for Friends of the Irish Environment but it is clear from the project plan on their website all they are seeking is for the law of the land to be upheld.

Mickeroo

robp wrote: »

I have never heard that distinction being made. I certainly have never heard it from the turf cutter association. When they say 'domestic' I am believe they refer to commercial cutting done by farmers or who ever. What difference does intent make to nature.

I can't speak for Friends of the Irish Environment but it is clear from the project plan on their website all they are seeking is for the law of the land to be upheld.

Most turf cutting isn't commercial, certainly not where I'm from. Its cut by local people on commonage to heat their own houses.

Traonach

johngalway wrote: »

People should be allowed to cut turf for their own use.

Turf cutting is banned in only a small percentage of bogs. Is it ok to cut turf in these bogs for domestic use, even if it damages the bog?

baaba maal

johngalway wrote: »

People should be allowed to cut turf for their own use.

In my opinion, people should be allowed to cut turf for their own use from bogs that aren't designated as SACs or NHAs. The current state compensation scheme offers both financial compensation for not cutting from these bogs as well as access to non SAC/NHAs to continue cutting turf. The main obstacle as far as I see it, is that there doesn't seem to be a drive by the state to purchase alternative bogs that aren't designated and are already being worked. This would remove the impetus for the current nonsense of comfortable TDs pretending to be the common man and fanning the flames (pun intended) of popular dissent. The issue of fuel poverty and protection of the last few bits of viable conservation status bog are being deliberately conflated by a TD who took a principled stance pre-election on the right to consume a certain illegal drug until it became politically damaging to remain principled:D

joela

Mickeroo wrote: »

Most turf cutting isn't commercial, certainly not where I'm from. Its cut by local people on commonage to heat their own houses.

By hand or using machinery? Very unusual to see hand cutting these days contrary to what is being promoted by TCCA. Anyway turf cutting cessation only applies to small number of SAC sites...not much to ask for greater good is it?

johngalway

joela wrote: »

not much to ask for greater good is it?

It's a lot to ask for a lot of people. The greater good my eye.

Mickeroo

joela wrote: »

By hand or using machinery? Very unusual to see hand cutting these days contrary to what is being promoted by TCCA. Anyway turf cutting cessation only applies to small number of SAC sites...not much to ask for greater good is it?

Mostly machine but some still use the slane, don't really think it makes much a difference which way its done tbh. If its in an SAC then I don't think they should be cutting though I know for a fact it happens in one near where I live.

People are short on money so I think cutting turf is on the rise again a little. My parents started cutting turf again last year, considering the price of oil its understandable. Unfortunately the environment tends to go out the window during economic downturns.

joela

johngalway wrote: »

It's a lot to ask for a lot of people. The greater good my eye.

Right so feck the rest of us and you keep on doing what you like because it suits you? Real sense of community and thought for your countrymen there. We might as well give up on powerlines, roads etc. too because they mostly rely on doing things for greater good.

Mé Féinism at its best

joela

Mickeroo wrote: »

Mostly machine but some still use the slane, don't really think it makes much a difference which way its done tbh. If its in an SAC then I don't think they should be cutting though I know for a fact it happens in one near where I live.

People are short on money so I think cutting turf is on the rise again a little. My parents started cutting turf again last year, considering the price of oil its understandable. Unfortunately the environment tends to go out the window during economic downturns.

How it is cut is actually important, if machines are used then impact is much greater. Hand cutting is less damaging overall.

I understand people are short of money sure I'm living it myself but I think the SACs don't need to be cut to make ends meet. Most SAC turf cutters can be relocated & those that aren't are getting money and/or turf.. the turf/money thing is a bit confusing as I'm not sure if it is both or one or the other.

Really this is where alternatives come in and if TCCA were any good they would have been looking at these when this first raised its head more than 10years ago. They would have had some great community schemes up and running by now if they hadn't decided that they were above the law. Coppicing would be really good, community energy schemes like they do on continent, retrofitting homes to reduce energy needs etc. etc. For a supposed advocacy group they haven't done anything except mis-inform, lie, misquote, misrepresent and try to evade staying within the law. If they had been proactive early on they could have avoiding most of this hassle. Anyhow too late now, law is in place & compensation deal on the table.

Traonach

I don't know of anybody who has stopped cutting on the SAC bogs. The ban ain't stopping anybody. The law is not being inforced:(.

Mickeroo

Traonach wrote: »

I don't know of anybody who has stopped cutting on the SAC bogs. The ban ain't stopping anybody. The law is not being inforced:(.

The fact of the matter is most people don't even know what a SAC is or where they are, all they see is commonage that their families have used for generations.

joela

Mickeroo wrote: »

The fact of the matter is most people don't even know what a SAC is or where they are, all they see is commonage that their families have used for generations.

They'd want to have been in isolation for the last 15 or so years not to know what an SAC is...I think they know very well what it is but they just don't want to acknowledge it.

joela

Traonach wrote: »

I don't know of anybody who has stopped cutting on the SAC bogs. The ban ain't stopping anybody. The law is not being inforced:(.

It hasn't up until now, not properly anyway but times they are a changin' http://www.galwaynews.ie/25159-galway-td-urges-turf-cutters-comply-law

Mickeroo

joela wrote: »

They'd want to have been in isolation for the last 15 or so years not to know what an SAC is...I think they know very well what it is but they just don't want to acknowledge it.

Nonsense, there's no signs up showing where their boundaries are, they're not marked on the OS maps, the only way you can find out where they are is to go looking for the list online. I live within eye sight of a SAC, NHA, SPA and a National Park. People are aware of the Park because there's a visitor centre but most of them wouldn't be able to tell you exactly where its boundaries are. As for the SACs etc. not a hope the average joe knows what they are, the only reason I'm aware of their existence in my local area is because I studied them in college. Unless a ranger has physically contacted someone and told them they're cutting turf or anything else on an SAC I seriously doubt most people would knoow what the are.

Traonach

Mickeroo wrote: »

Nonsense, there's no signs up showing where their boundaries are, they're not marked on the OS maps, the only way you can find out where they are is to go looking for the list online. I live within eye sight of a SAC, NHA, SPA and a National Park. People are aware of the Park because there's a visitor centre but most of them wouldn't be able to tell you exactly where its boundaries are. As for the SACs etc. not a hope the average joe knows what they are, the only reason I'm aware of their existence in my local area is because I studied them in college. Unless a ranger has physically contacted someone and told them they're cutting turf or anything else on an SAC I seriously doubt most people would knoow what the are.

If you cut turf then it's your responsibilty to find out whether your plot is in a SAC or not.

Mickeroo

Traonach wrote: »

If you cut turf then it's your responsibilty to find out whether your plot is in a SAC or not.

My point is most people don't know what a SAC is.

Traonach

Mickeroo wrote: »

My point is most people don't know what a SAC is.

Everybody that I know who cuts turf knows there's a ban on certain bogs, there not that stupid. They all might not know what a SAC is, but they know that the bans are present on some bogs.

mikom

First thing I saw when I opened that page.........National Geographic Germany

Mickeroo

Traonach wrote: »

Everybody that I know who cuts turf knows there's a ban on certain bogs, there not that stupid. They all might not know what a SAC is, but they know that the bans are present on some bogs.

I never said anyone was stupid and I can't speak of anyone's knowledge of bans, but I know there are some bogs in my local area that are in a SAC and afaik they are still cut. Its possible there was some sort of agreement reached that they can cut below a certain amount but I'd imagine its far more likely the area just isn't policed properly or even at all. Its not like we live in a country with a good track record of properly looking after its protected areas, was the state not fined by Europe a couple of years ago for neglecting the SACs? I think quads on the dublin mountains were the culprit that time?

Traonach

Mickeroo wrote: »

I never said anyone was stupid and I can't speak of anyone's knowledge of bans, but I know there are some bogs in my local area that are in a SAC and afaik they are still cut. Its possible there was some sort of agreement reached that they can cut below a certain amount but I'd imagine its far more likely the area just isn't policed properly or even at all. Its not like we live in a country with a good track record of properly looking after its protected areas, was the state not fined by Europe a couple of years ago for neglecting the SACs? I think quads on the dublin mountains were the culprit that time?

I can't see the bans working:(. Those Fine Gael roosters definitely ain't going to stop it. I was talking to a lad who's cutting turf in Kildare (his plot is in a SAC). He knows full well it's against the law however he says he will never stop, there's too much money to be made. He uses the sausage machine which annilates the bogs. He freely admits he's destroying the bog. I also asked him are there any people cutting by hand, he knows nobody doing it by hand.

Mickeroo

Traonach wrote: »

I can't see the bans working:(. Those Fine Gael roosters definitely ain't going to stop it. I was talking to a lad who's cutting turf in Kildare (his plot is in a SAC). He knows full well it's against the law however he says he will never stop, there's too much money to be made. He uses the sausage machine which annilates the bogs. He freely admits he's destroying the bog. I also asked him are there any people cutting by hand, he knows nobody doing it by hand.

Is he doing it on a large scale to sell it?

Restricitions on land use never go down well in Ireland even when they're warranted, as I feel is the case with the bogs, its just such a strong part of culture here that we have to have control and ownership of the land.

washman3

joela wrote: »

Right so feck the rest of us and you keep on doing what you like because it suits you? Real sense of community and thought for your countrymen there. We might as well give up on powerlines, roads etc. too because they mostly rely on doing things for greater good.

Mé Féinism at its best

Take up some other good cause, like say go to Saudi Arabia and tell the people there the cant take oil from the ground. if you survive,let us know how you got on.!!
for now leave the people of rural Ireland alone to continue the tradition they have practised for generations, a tradition that helps them heat their homes.
I often wonder what kind of vested interests that the anti-turfcutting people have. Reminds me of our friend in the now defunct Green Party who stated that petrol should be €10 a gallon,and that was around 2005.
Turned out that this "great" guardian of the environment had shares in an oil company.:mad:

Traonach

Mickeroo wrote: »

Is he doing it on a large scale to sell it?

Restricitions on land use never go down well in Ireland even when they're warranted, as I feel is the case with the bogs, its just such a strong part of culture here that we have to have control and ownership of the land.

Half is for personal use the rest he sells. The lad I know (he's a sound enough lad) does it purely for the fuel and money, it's defo not a cultural thing for him.

Traonach

washman3 wrote: »

Take up some other good cause, like say go to Saudi Arabia and tell the people there the cant take oil from the ground. if you survive,let us know how you got on.!!
for now leave the people of rural Ireland alone to continue the tradition they have practised for generations, a tradition that helps them heat their homes.
I often wonder what kind of vested interests that the anti-turfcutting people have. Reminds me of our friend in the now defunct Green Party who stated that petrol should be €10 a gallon,and that was around 2005.
Turned out that this "great" guardian of the environment had shares in an oil company.:mad:

The only vested interest the "anti-turfcutting people" want is to preserve the few unique bogs we have and the rare and threatened breeding wildlife they harbour: Red Grouse, Curlew, Golden Plover, Dunlin, Hen Harrier, Merlin etc.

johngalway

joela wrote: »

We might as well give up on powerlines, roads etc. too because they mostly rely on doing things for greater good.

There is that view from certain sections of the urban population who post on this site that rural Ireland is an inconvenient draw on their tax Euros.

Greater good when it suits some.

washman3

Traonach wrote: »

The only vested interest the "anti-turfcutting people" want is to preserve the few unique bogs we have and the rare and threatened breeding wildlife they harbour: Red Grouse, Curlew, Golden Plover, Dunlin, Hen Harrier, Merlin etc.

Plenty of room for all of the above, hen harrier excluded,in Irish bogs along with domestic turfcutters,(i dont agree with commercial cutters)
The disappearance of the grouse in late years had little or nothing to do with turfcutting. the habitat was destroyed when the likes of coillte and Greenbelt introduced Sitka Spruce which in turn poisened streams and wells(my own included) coupled with the planting of perfect bogs.

The Hen Harrier by the way is vermin, and has no place in this country.
Just a pet-project by the forestry companies to keep environmentalists on their side.;)

Mickeroo

washman3 wrote: »

The Hen Harrier by the way is vermin, and has no place in this country.
Just a pet-project by the forestry companies to keep environmentalists on their side.;)

Could you please elaborate on how a bird of prey that only eats small birds and mammals is vermin?

LostCovey

johngalway wrote: »

yet there is vast and rapid destruction of these areas due to use for fuel on a domestic and industrial scale as well as use in horticulture.

People should be allowed to cut turf for their own use.

A totally logic-free approach which ignores the real issue - the fact that mechanised peat extraction "for their own use" has caused a huge amount of damage to a uniquw habitat.

What other envionmental vandalism should be available to a select few regardless of the consequences:
pollution of rivers by domestic septic tanks as long as it is "for their own use"?
Poaching deer and salmon as long as it is "for their own use".

This country has a fair ol' history of clergy and politicians taking liberties with the rights of others "for their own use".

Nobody has a God-given right to free fuel regardless of the cost. The people who had the privilege of digging free fuel out of the ground over the past decades should be taxed for benefit in kind. And the proceeds used to restore some of the damage causef by their plundering of a fragile & unique habitat. Vandalusm pure and simple.

When you see that ninny Ming Flanagan squeaking on about how he is representing the turf cutting brigade you have to conclude that when God made them he matched them. They deserve each other.

We all know the resources from the bogs that Ming was in the habit of lighting up - at least he has that excuse for the burnt out neurons.

I would expect JohnGalway to know better.

LostCovey

LostCovey

washman3 wrote: »

Traonach wrote: »

The only vested interest the "anti-turfcutting people" want is to preserve the few unique bogs we have and the rare and threatened breeding wildlife they harbour: Red Grouse, Curlew, Golden Plover, Dunlin, Hen Harrier, Merlin etc.

Plenty of room for all of the above, hen harrier excluded,in Irish bogs along with domestic turfcutters,(i dont agree with commercial cutters)
The disappearance of the grouse in late years had little or nothing to do with turfcutting. the habitat was destroyed when the likes of coillte and Greenbelt introduced Sitka Spruce which in turn poisened streams and wells(my own included) coupled with the planting of perfect bogs.

The Hen Harrier by the way is vermin, and has no place in this country.
Just a pet-project by the forestry companies to keep environmentalists on their side.;)

Washman3 your invincible ignorance of your own heritage and the ecology of the habitat you claim to understand speaks volumes for the hollow emptiness of your "arguments". If I had any sympathy for you I would advise you to do a bit less writing and spend a bit more time observing before you commit any more of your fevered imaginings to print.

Drinking from a poisoned well is a poor excuse for the pishoguery you are peddling. You manage to hybridise British Victorian attitudes to raptors with pure native bar-room philosophy in a unique mix of belligetent ignorance that I thought had gone out of fashion. Consideration should be given to preserving you for science.

You are just like the rest of the Mingers.

Its a sad day when blow-in urban environmentalists and Europea. bureaucrats know more about the Irish countryside than people claiming to champion the rights of native Irish rural people. But your crackpot notions are evidence that this is the case.

Your posting would be hilarious crack were it not for the fact you probably believe some of that guff.

LostCovey

mikom

LostCovey wrote: »

belligetent ignorance

Oooops.

LostCovey

Mickeroo wrote: »

Traonach wrote: »

If you cut turf then it's your responsibilty to find out whether your plot is in a SAC or not.

My point is most people don't know what a SAC is.

Well the Mingers don't know what they are anyway. They seem to think they are some sort of Euro plot.

LC

LostCovey

mikom wrote: »

LostCovey wrote: »

belligetent ignorance

Oooops.

Oops is right mikom.

Big fingers small phone!

All those years driving a slane. For my own use of course.

robp

washman3 wrote: »

Plenty of room for all of the above, hen harrier excluded,in Irish bogs along with domestic turfcutters,(i dont agree with commercial cutters)


The Hen Harrier by the way is vermin, and has no place in this country.
Just a pet-project by the forestry companies to keep environmentalists on their side.;)

This certainly has to be the most misinformed post here in a very long time. Frightening actually.

There is infact ,a whole range of gamebirds and other species not mentioned by Traonach which have declined thanks to bog destruction. This has been documented for years. Maybe the SAC areas will just have to be bought to insure their survival.

washman3

LostCovey wrote: »

Well the Mingers don't know what they are anyway. They seem to think they are some sort of Euro plot.

LC

By any chance are you the aforementioned Green Party member with shares in an oil company?? :D

LostCovey

washman3 wrote: »

LostCovey wrote: »

Well the Mingers don't know what they are anyway. They seem to think they are some sort of Euro plot.

LC

By any chance are you the aforementioned Green Party member with shares in an oil company?? :D

The Greens are long gone for all the harm they were. Don't be like those Japanese soldiers on uninhabited islands still fighting WW2 in the 1970s.

I never really understood why Irish farming organisations regarded the environmental lobby as the enemy when the environmental credemtials of Irish farming are so high. They should have stood their ground and defended themselves in stead of retreating into sterile opposition.

However that initial tactical blunder is now being compounded by yahoos like the Mingers squealing into any available microphone about their inalienable right to pursue the venerable traditions of hopper turf cut with that ancient traditional instrument the Landini.

And people like washman who have written more tham they have read about Hen Harriers.

Going to sign off now in case he thinks he is rising me.

LC

washman3

mikom wrote: »

Oooops.

Looks like a vested interest has been disturbed..:D

Kess73

MOD POST: Keep it on topic folks. It is an emotive topic, but don't let it drift into insulting or baiting territory.

magicbastarder

it'd even be a bit more excusable if turf was a decent fuel. it's not.
there are loads of professions which were hit by changes in regulation or licencing, and who were never compensated for it; taxi drivers when the taxi market was deregulated for example.
there's possibly an opportunity here for the government to engage with turfcutters, and instead of financial compensation, offer efficiency upgrades to their houses, and actually achieve something tangible; i've seen it near where i grew up (suburban dublin) - once one person starts such upgrades, it can become contagious.

joela

johngalway wrote: »

There is that view from certain sections of the urban population who post on this site that rural Ireland is an inconvenient draw on their tax Euros.

Greater good when it suits some.[/QUOT

Rural vs Urban...what an original argument, enough said :rolleyes::rolleyes:

joela

robp wrote: »

This certainly has to be the most misinformed post here in a very long time. Frightening actually.

There is infact ,a whole range of gamebirds and other species not mentioned by Traonach which have declined thanks to bog destruction. This has been documented for years. Maybe the SAC areas will just have to be bought to insure their survival.

Rob, that is why some of these areas have also been designated as SPAs. I also think the value of the habitats, their function as flood attenuation, their value as carbon stores, their function as natural water filters as well as their importance for invertebrates also needs a mention here.

LostCovey

joela wrote: »

robp wrote: »

This certainly has to be the most misinformed post here in a very long time. Frightening actually.

There is infact ,a whole range of gamebirds and other species not mentioned by Traonach which have declined thanks to bog destruction. This has been documented for years. Maybe the SAC areas will just have to be bought to insure their survival.

Rob, that is why some of these areas have also been designated as SPAs. I also think the value of the habitats, their function as flood attenuation, their value as carbon stores, their function as natural water filters as well as their importance for invertebrates also needs a mention here.

The other thing thats being forgotten is that everyone is geeling the pinch. If everyone who could cut turf did so it wouldn't last long.

The whole fever pitch that the turf lobby has built up around this is a smokescreen (unfortunate term) that covers up the simple fact that we are talking about a small minority of a privileged subset of people who have had free fuel at an enormous environmental cost. A unique ecosystem has been plundered and what is being proposed is the preservation of a tiny proportion.

This will show future generations what we allowed go up in smoke "for domestic purposes".

I can see why the Mingers want to get rid of the evidence.

LostCovey

LostCovey

Nice to hear the Irish Peatland Conservation Council speaking up today - a simple rational message that may do a lot to counteract the shrill hysteria of the privileged few.

The IPCC CEO said that the people affected have been offered 15 tons of turf/year for 15 years, and still want to plunder the protected areas & cut them this year regardless.

This country's laws should apply to everyone.

http://www.ipcc.ie/currentaction2005-24d.html

Traonach

LostCovey wrote: »

The IPCC CEO said that the people affected have been offered 15 tons of turf/year for 15 years, and still want to plunder the protected areas & cut them this year regardless.


http://www.ipcc.ie/currentaction2005-24d.html

Pure greed:mad:

thebishop

Interesting article here.
http://www.countrywatchireland.com/news/6-marsh-fritillary-associated-with-peat-cutting-in-kerry.html


The Marsh Fritillary is a protected species and that is a fact. Now as the Marsh Fritillary is not a raised bog species it would be reasonable to say that it was locally common in the Listowel area up into the early part of the last century. Then as lands were improved and its food source became scarce and confined to field hedgerows the butterfly began to colonise the bog margins of Moanveanlagh. It simply had nowhere else to go. The raised bog was already drying out as nature had produced two spectacular "Bog Bursts" at around that period.

This natural occurrence along with the age old tradition of turf cutting was to provide a suitable and safe habitat for the Marsh Fritillary. Around this time the Board of Works began to drain along the northern periphery of Moanveanlagh further drying out the bog. In fact it would be fair to say that the natural drying out of the bog through bog bursts and the work carried out by the Board of Works combined would have hastened the drying out process much more than the turf cutting has ever done.

Conservationists sitting in offices do little to improve public relations between the people who own and work the land and the departments who make decisions with out consultation. What is needed is a plan to work with the landowners and begin conservation in a practical way that removes the word ban out of the answer.

Other countries in the E.U. manage this quite well and lessons could be learned from Scotland and Northern Ireland where conservation of raised bogs and turf cutting go hand in hand right up to present. Suggested conservation measures include cutting back the invading growth periodically, yes this might work, but it leaves the solution hanging in mid-air. Who will be responsible for carrying out this extensive work and will it ever be delivered on at all. Aspirations will not, no matter how well meaning deliver solutions.

As for grazing the bog using cattle it is beyond belief that this remedy could ever have been thought up in relation to Moanveanlagh and if put into practice would lead to many of the unfortunate animals being lost in bog holes from the onset. The present practices i.e. turf cutting are in harmony with nature but of course could be improved on and having observed the results over the years I have no doubt that Moanveanlagh is at present in safe hands. Improvements could be made with suitable advice and practical help from the National Parks and Wildlife staff and as I have mentioned this is working successfully in other countries where outright bans were never considered.

Since 1987 I have not noticed a decline in a single species on Moanveanlagh and species such as the Large Heath is abundant on the drier margins though he is of the opinion that it can not tolerate these areas. I have also noted this species on much drier sites on the Sliabh Mish Mountain range to name but one other instance.

Finally while much of the periphery of Moanveanlagh Bog is being referred to as degraded the impression should not be taken that these areas are poor in biodiversity this is far from the case, and the Marsh Fritillary is living proof of that.

Equally the idea that these areas have been degraded solely through turf cutting is quite erroneous. Nature itself through bog bursts of which there are two major records for in the last century, and of course the work carried out by the Bord of Works to relieve flooding from surrounding areas did adversely play a part in the drying out process.

An E.U. Directive stating that all turf cutting must cease in Moanveanlagh Bog, Listowel, was signed into force by Heritage Minister Mr. Jimmy Deenihan last October 2011.

Habitat Protection is very necessary be it for our Seas, Seashores, Hedgerows, Woodlands, Mountains or in this case our Peat/Boglands. But it is vital that when we set out to protect a biodiverse site that we base our reasons on sound scientific advice. The "one size fits all" can not and must not be the rule as has been so often applied in the past.

As an entomologist with 35 years experience of study in the field I would question the Moanveanlagh case and state that there is a serious gap in the Departments knowledge regarding a rare and protected species which breeds there.

The species Eurodryas aurinia, rottenburg 1775 commonly known as the Marsh Fritillary breeds in small numbers on the periphery of Moanveanlagh. It is on these marginal areas that all turf is spread out, stacked and dried, this practice has been on going for some centuries now.

I have monitored the Marsh Fritillary's presence in Moanveanlagh annually since 1990 to present time and the colonies are only to be found on these margins. The reason being is that the plant on which it breeds, Succisa pratensis commonly known as Devil's Bit Scabious only flourishes on the drier periphery.

If the practice of Turf cutting was to cease the growth of tall plants such as bracken, Willow, Bramble and other vigorous plants now left undisturbed by man would crowd out the areas of Devil's Bit Scabious bringing the continued existence of the Marsh Fritillary to an end. This would most certainly happen within the next 5 to 10 years.

There are almost no true wild spaces on the face of the earth as nearly all have been changed by man at sometime over the millennia; Where the presence of man at work ceases the stronger species rapidly take over and in the case of Moanveanlagh Bog, Devil's Bit Scabious and the Marsh Fritillary will not be the winners.

joela

TheBishop, hate to tell you but that article is completely incorrect and was in fact laughed at by every ecologist I know. That person is completely incorrect as evidenced by the response from Butterfly Conservation Ireland and their statement here http://www.butterflyconservation.ie/wordpress/?p=1121

The comments made by this gentleman are not based on fact or indeed any best practice I have ever heard of as a scientist. Devil's bit-scabious is found on many sites beside raised bog and is not necessarily an indicator for biodiversity and cannot be used as one simply by its presence on the drier areas of the bog. A single species of butterfly and its food plant does not constitute biodiversity and while the butterfly is indeed a protected species the bog habitat is a priority Annex I habitat which is much more important in terms of biodiversity. Have a read of this for a better explanation http://jncc.defra.gov.uk/protectedsites/sacselection/species.asp?FeatureIntCode=S1065

recedite

thebishop wrote: »

If the practice of Turf cutting was to cease the growth of tall plants such as bracken, Willow, Bramble and other vigorous plants now left undisturbed by man would crowd out the areas of Devil's Bit Scabious bringing the continued existence of the Marsh Fritillary to an end.

Nice try :pac::pac::pac:

Regarding distinctions between "domestic" and "mechanised" turfcutting; these do not exist in reality.
People who have rights to cut a patch of turf nowadays contract the work out to someone with a "sausage machine."
If they bought their own machine and learned how to use it, what difference would it make to the bog? None.

joela

Can I please ask those wishing to protect Ireland's peatlands to consider signing and sharing this Avaaz petition to stop the destruction of Irish raised bog SAC sites. http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Save_Irelands_protected_peatlands/?cxtUTcb

Thanks :-)

washman3

So Nicolien Van Rooijen from the Netherlands wants to stop Micheal O'Congaile from Galway from cutting turf in his own bog where his ancestors have done likewise for centuries...

Are you guys for real or is this a pisstake.??
No wonder this country is bankrupt (in many ways):mad: