Why have the govt forced AIB to drop interest rates and not PTSB?

Big Nasty

Fianna Fáil has accused the Government of abandoning 80,000 mortgage holders who are being "crucified" by high interest rates.
The party says standard variable mortgage holders in Permanent TSB are being charged interest at a rate of 5.19%, while the Government forced AIB to reduce its variable rate to 3%.
Finance spokesperson Michael McGrath said it was unacceptable that one State-owned bank should be forced to reduce its rates, while another was ignored.
He said he could not understand the difference in attitude towards the two banks, but suspected the Government prioritised AIB because of its market share and its higher visibility.
Deputy McGrath urged PTSB mortgage holders to contact Government TDs to urge them to support a Fianna Fáil private members motion, which is to be voted on tomorrow night, calling on the Government to use "all means possible" to bring rates down.
The motion also calls for greater efforts to increase lending to small and medium enterprises, and to help distressed mortgage holders.
Deputy McGrath said the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste admitted last week that they had not done enough on mortgages - and said he agrees with them.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0313/mortgage.html

I'm one of those 80,000 and it's costing me an extra €300 a month. How do they manage to get away with this?:mad::mad::mad:

MCMLXXV

MCMLXXV wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0313/mortgage.html

I'm one of those 80,000 and it's costing me an extra €300 a month. How do they manage to get away with this?:mad::mad::mad:

Get away with what? Charging you what you signed up for?

govt meddling in the banks got us into this mess

sbsquarepants

Unfortunately you're not alone. The cúnts have sold us all out. :mad:

Logical Fallacy

FF are obviously concerned as they convinced everyone that their ridiculous mortgages were a good idea.

Dravokivich

Fianna Fáil has accused the Government of abandoning 80,000 mortgage holders

Well, wudja look at that...

Alright boys, thanks for not properly cleaning up the mess we landed you in, so we can give you a bit of a slagging in the press.

sbsquarepants

bluewolf wrote: »

LACK OF SUFFICIENT govt meddling in the banks got us into this mess

That's more like it.

Unfortunately though, when they finally did decide to act, they were so incompetent/corrupt/stupid they only made matters worse.

Big Nasty

bluewolf wrote: »

Get away with what? Charging you what you signed up for?

govt meddling in the banks got us into this mess

No, charging 2% more than every other bank.

MickySticks

MCMLXXV wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0313/mortgage.html

I'm one of those 80,000 and it's costing me an extra €300 a month. How do they manage to get away with this?:mad::mad::mad:

Did Enda Kenny hold a gun to your head until you signed up for a mortgage? No he didn't so quit your whinging and pay back your loan!

Dyr

"at least I have my foot on the ladder now"
"renting is dead money"
"but 400k seemed such a fair price for a 3 bedroom semi built on a flood plain in meath"

In all fairness, f**k off lads.

Logical Fallacy

MCMLXXV wrote: »

No, charging 2% more than every other bank.

While i feel bad for the position you are in it's an unfortunate result of the contract that was signed.

I'd suggest some kind of effort to get people to contact their local TD or government representative.

no1beemerfan

The govt put our money into AIB and BOI so they have some control but didn't put money into PTSB so the fcukers can do as they will.

Myrddin

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Fianna Fail has accused

Thats where I stopped

benway

bluewolf wrote: »

govt meddling in the banks got us into this mess

Dial C for cognitive dissonance. Light touch regulation and the "magic of the markets" got us into this mess.

I'm still dying for one of you libertarians to explain to me how you would have dealt with the social consequences of letting the banks collapse?

But I do agree that we're getting the worst of all worlds at the moment - banks are riding roughshod over this country, it's a disgrace.

smash

Move mortgage provider.

Faolchu

MCMLXXV wrote: »

No, charging 2% more than every other bank.

but isnt that the contract you signed up to? did the current or for that matter teh previous government force you to sign on the dotted line? did teh government force people to over extend and become massivly in debt and in a large hole with negative equity? eh no coz ya see i bought my place at the height of the boom too, but i figured i'd buy small and not overextend myself to the pont that while i was on a decent wage i didnt have a pot to piss in. instead i figured i'd buy small and live comfortably. am i in negative equity now? yeah but not as bad as most people, do i blame teh government? no i blame myself for buying when i did after all no one forced me to buy a home, i could have rented and paid for someone elseses instead

arybvtcw0eolkf

MickySticks wrote: »

Did Enda Kenny hold a gun to your head until you signed up for a mortgage? No he didn't so quit your whinging and pay back your loan!

lol, gotta love AH sometimes

Faolchu

MickySticks wrote: »

Did Enda Kenny hold a gun to your head until you signed up for a mortgage? No he didn't so quit your whinging and pay back your loan!

i cant thank your post twice unfortunatly

Sindri

bluewolf wrote: »

Get away with what? Charging you what you signed up for?

govt meddling in the banks got us into this mess

Stop peddlin' your neo-con ideology like it were gospel.

Big Nasty

MickySticks wrote: »

Did Enda Kenny hold a gun to your head until you signed up for a mortgage? No he didn't so quit your whinging and pay back your loan!

Bambi wrote: »

"at least I have my foot on the ladder now"
"renting is dead money"
"but 400k seemed such a fair price for a 3 bedroom semi built on a flood plain in meath"

In all fairness, f**k off lads.

Look lads, I get how many people didn't buy houses in the boom and rented instead any you're all great lads with all that foresight but when y'all find the time to get down off your smug high horses you might just realise that there's a load of people in the sh1t right now and your comments don't help. I'm not complaining that I have to pay my mortgage, I'm complaining that I have to pay 2% more than I should have to. And to be frank, I could really do with that additional €300 a month in my pocket right now.

MickySticks

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Look lads, I get how many people didn't buy houses in the boom and rented instead any you're all great lads with all that foresight but when y'all find the time to get down off your smug high horses you might just realise that there's a load of people in the sh1t right now and your comments don't help. I'm not complaining that I have to pay my mortgage, I'm complaining that I have to pay 2% more than I should have to. And to be frank, I could really do with that additional €300 a month in my pocket right now.

2% rise means you pay €300 extra per month. So by my calculations you pay €15,300 per month for your mortgage?

blaze1

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Look lads, I get how many people didn't buy houses in the boom and rented instead any you're all great lads with all that foresight but when y'all find the time to get down off your smug high horses you might just realise that there's a load of people in the sh1t right now and your comments don't help. I'm not complaining that I have to pay my mortgage, I'm complaining that I have to pay 2% more than I should have to. And to be frank, I could really do with that additional €300 a month in my pocket right now.

Fairplay

Some amount of high horses in this place today.

Look at me I'm great, I'm still renting/living at home with me ma/banker so I'm sorted anyway.

Delete as appropriate and f*ck off and get some decenacy.

A lot of people are in serious threat of loosing their homes which they have worked hard to get and maintain and have something for their future families.

Faolchu

MCMLXXV wrote: »

I'm complaining that I have to pay 2% more than I should have to.

why should you not have to pay it though? you signed the contract being of sound mind and knew what your side of the deal was.

dont get me wrong i sympathise and like most i struggle to make ends meet and would love surplus cash for multiple holidays etc. but I'm curious to know why people think the government are wrong not to intervene in what amounts to a contract between two parties?

MickySticks

blaze1 wrote: »

Some amount of high horses in this place today.

Look at me I'm great, I'm still renting/living at home with me ma/banker so I'm sorted anyway.

Ah its great. Get the dinner cooked and clothes washed as well.

SEPT 23 1989

The more that people have to spend on their mortgages the less that goes into the real economy=more unemployment=more social welfare payments=more borrowing=economic death spiral

stovelid

bluewolf wrote:

Charging you what you signed up for?

I don't recall 'signing up'to pay hundreds of euro a month directly from my salary to support these banks either.

Maybe I missed the memo.

emo72

MCMLXXV wrote: »

MickySticks wrote: »

Did Enda Kenny hold a gun to your head until you signed up for a mortgage? No he didn't so quit your whinging and pay back your loan!

Bambi wrote: »

"at least I have my foot on the ladder now"
"renting is dead money"
"but 400k seemed such a fair price for a 3 bedroom semi built on a flood plain in meath"

In all fairness, f**k off lads.

Look lads, I get how many people didn't buy houses in the boom and rented instead any you're all great lads with all that foresight but when y'all find the time to get down off your smug high horses you might just realise that there's a load of people in the sh1t right now and your comments don't help. I'm not complaining that I have to pay my mortgage, I'm complaining that I have to pay 2% more than I should have to. And to be frank, I could really do with that additional €300 a month in my pocket right now.

Lads yous are being way too hard here. How or why he ended up in that situation is irrelevant.

The problem here is he has little spare money to spend. All these people that are caught in this trap are lost to the real economy. Its all very well saying you got what you asked for. But that attitude wont help anybody.

As far as I remember we were all encouraged/scared into buying. Or else be left behind.

MickySticks

MickySticks wrote: »

Did Enda Kenny hold a gun to your head until you signed up for a mortgage? No he didn't so quit your whinging and pay back your loan!

No but he has his hand around my balls .

WIZE

Deleted User wrote: »

No but he has his hand around my balls .

And you're lovin it

randombar

One question I have is when did Permanent TSB move from tracker to variable? I mean a good percentage of the people in serious negative equity have a tracker mortgage as they purchased before the crash, the majority of people who have a variable rate purchased during the crash no?? Got a cheaper place etc. etc?

smash

Even forgetting this, the government has abandoned mortgage holders because they still haven't implemented the promised higher rates of interest relief as outlined in the last budget.

Gurgle

MCMLXXV wrote: »

I'm complaining that I have to pay 2% more than I should have to. And to be frank, I could really do with that additional €300 a month in my pocket right now.

For convenience, I've split my response into 2 sections:
1) Arguing and 2) Trying to help.
Please read them as two separate posts, one from each of my boards personalities.

1) Arguing:
Whats the 'should' business about?
The state of this country's finances, we 'should' be hitting mortgage rates of 15%. Be grateful for the euro, suck it up and pay your bills.

2) Trying to help:
Arrange a meeting with your bank's mortgage advisor, they should be amenable to stretching the mortgage term out. That can knock a lot off the monthly repayments. Subject to diminishing returns, especially once you go past 30 years.

SeanW

benway wrote: »

Dial C for cognitive dissonance. Light touch regulation and the "magic of the markets" got us into this mess.

I'm still dying for one of you libertarians to explain to me how you would have dealt with the social consequences of letting the banks collapse?

Very simple. I would have compensated retail depositors and told everyone else to go to Hell. The U.S. has a mechanism to this called the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, so that when a small/regional bank fails the FDIC steps in to help depositors. And they don't step in until the bank actually falls.

If only they hadn't done other stuff like passed the Community Reinvestment Act, created a series of bubbles like housing construction and actaully let Wall St bankers go f*** themselves when they came a cropper, America would now be a lot better off if their bank 'rescue' actions had been limited to the remit of the FDIC.

Ireland would be like Iceland now - already on the road to recovery and with about €80bn or so less national debt.

Big Nasty

Faolchu wrote: »

why should you not have to pay it though? you signed the contract being of sound mind and knew what your side of the deal was.

dont get me wrong i sympathise and like most i struggle to make ends meet and would love surplus cash for multiple holidays etc. but I'm curious to know why people think the government are wrong not to intervene in what amounts to a contract between two parties?

Do you think it's fair that they're charging 2% more than anyone else? I wouldn't care so much if I could move providers but I'm in negative equity to the tune of €80k so they're holiding me and 79,999 others to ransom.:mad:

gurramok

emo72 wrote: »

The problem here is he has little spare money to spend. All these people that are caught in this trap are lost to the real economy. Its all very well saying you got what you asked for. But that attitude wont help anybody.

As far as I remember we were all encouraged/scared into buying. Or else be left behind.

Cut back to a lifestyle you signed up to. No-one was forced to buy against their will under any threats.

sbsquarepants

MickySticks wrote: »

2% rise means you pay €300 extra per month. So by my calculations you pay €15,300 per month for your mortgage?

Ha ha. Do you work for the department of finance by any chance?:rolleyes:
That's a fine grasp of how mortgage interest works you have there!

Kidchameleon

Faolchu wrote: »

MCMLXXV wrote: »

No, charging 2% more than every other bank.

but isnt that the contract you signed up to? did the current or for that matter teh previous government force you to sign on the dotted line? did teh government force people to over extend and become massivly in debt and in a large hole with negative equity? eh no coz ya see i bought my place at the height of the boom too, but i figured i'd buy small and not overextend myself to the pont that while i was on a decent wage i didnt have a pot to piss in. instead i figured i'd buy small and live comfortably. am i in negative equity now? yeah but not as bad as most people, do i blame teh government? no i blame myself for buying when i did after all no one forced me to buy a home, i could have rented and paid for someone elseses instead

Jesus theres always one :'(

donegal_road

you've made your bed, now lie in it... no one put a gun to your head... this is what you signed up for... no use in crying now... show some responsibility for your actions.. man up and pay up.. its buyer beware.. quit moaning and keep up with the repayments.. so you want the government to hold your hand do you?.. act more responsibly and stop complaining.. and by the way, your the one who signed the dotted line, was Bertie holding a gun to your head? :rolleyes::eek::cool::D:mad::pac:

ChubbyHubby

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Do you think it's fair that they're charging 2% more than anyone else? I wouldn't care so much if I could move providers but I'm in negative equity to the tune of €80k so they're holiding me and 79,999 others to ransom.:mad:

That's a really childish argument. Is it fair that some people earn more than you? Is it fair that some people have no jobs? It might not seem fair to you but life isn't fair most of the time.

smash

Faolchu wrote: »

i figured i'd buy small and not overextend myself to the pont that while i was on a decent wage i didnt have a pot to piss in. instead i figured i'd buy small and live comfortably.

And if you get hit with a pay cut and interest rates rise, ESB/Gas rates rise, the price of fuel rises, motor tax rises and then there's the household tax then you're going to be living very uncomfortably. Like a lot of Ireland is. I don't buy the bs that people overextend themselves. At the time, they could afford it. It's simple.

irishgrover

MickySticks wrote: »

2% rise means you pay €300 extra per month. So by my calculations you pay €15,300 per month for your mortgage?

with all due respect, I don't think you understand how compond interest works. Google mortgage calculator and you can play with some figures. for example

borrow 400k over 25 years
interest @ 1% MP=1847
interest @ 3% MP= 2240
interest @ 5% MP=2674

the really worrying bit is that interest rates basaically can't get any lower (from an ecb point of view). It irish banks are charnging ~5% when the ecb rate is ~1% what the **** will they be charging when ecb rates increase? Any remember the only reason ecb rates are so low is because the big two economies are struggling.
What will happen in a few years when Germany/France are growing strongly, and the ecb pumps up the interest rate to 5% to compensate?
What will the irish banks be charging then 8%, 10% 12% ?? Whick every it is, we'll be completely ****ed....
For example, looking at the loan above
interest @ 10% MP=3915
interest @ 13% MP=4745

(obviously figures ignore, amount actually repaid at time of interest rate change etc)

MickySticks

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Ha ha. Do you work for the department of finance by any chance?:rolleyes:
That's a fine grasp of how mortgage interest works you have there!

I understand perfectly how mortgage interest works, the OP worded in such away that he was saying he paid €300 p/m extra with a 2% mortgage rise not interest!!

emo72

gurramok wrote: »

emo72 wrote: »

The problem here is he has little spare money to spend. All these people that are caught in this trap are lost to the real economy. Its all very well saying you got what you asked for. But that attitude wont help anybody.

As far as I remember we were all encouraged/scared into buying. Or else be left behind.

Cut back to a lifestyle you signed up to. No-one was forced to buy against their will under any threats.

I'm not affected by this at all. I bought my home years ago. I think is an injustice what's happening to young people. I remember well. It was like a gun being put to your head. Buy now our never afford one. Rent was not much cheaper either. If you were a young couple growing up then you could not put your life on hold indefinitely. Waiting for prices to fall.

Ok. Some people are saying. Tough, its what you signed up for, take your medicine. Ok. See what happens if those people are left in that situation. The country will not recover and even the people with the incredible foresight will be affected.

Big Nasty

ChubbyHubby wrote: »

That's a really childish argument. Is it fair that some people earn more than you? Is it fair that some people have no jobs? It might not seem fair to you but life isn't fair most of the time.

You miss this bit?

standard variable mortgage holders in Permanent TSB are being charged interest at a rate of 5.19%, while the Government forced AIB to reduce its variable rate to 3%. Finance spokesperson Michael McGrath said it was unacceptable that one State-owned bank should be forced to reduce its rates, while another was ignored.

Big Nasty

MickySticks wrote: »

I understand perfectly how mortgage interest works, the OP worded in such away that he was saying he paid €300 p/m extra with a 2% mortgage rise not interest!!

No I didn't and it just proves you didn't read my OP and are just here to 'have a go'.

smash

MickySticks wrote: »

I understand perfectly how mortgage interest works, the OP worded in such away that he was saying he paid €300 p/m extra with a 2% mortgage rise not interest!!

Mortgage rise as a result of interest rate. You obviously do not understand.

Jimmy Two Times

Call their bluff............throw the keys back at them if you have no other assets they can get their maulers on.

Go rent a place for a lot less than what you are paying at the moment and have some sort of a lifestyle rather than stressing about how you are never going be able to repay this mortgage and get any sort of equity back in the gaff.

OK, so you'll never borrow another cent here ever again..........do you really care ?

MysticalRain

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

The more that people have to spend on their mortgages the less that goes into the real economy=more unemployment=more social welfare payments=more borrowing=economic death spiral

If you expect a handout from people like me, then we will have less money to spend in the real economy.

I would rather give my money to the 400,000 plus people on the dole right now than give it to people who over-extended themselves in the boom by buying overpriced property.

gurramok

emo72 wrote: »

I'm not affected by this at all. I bought my home years ago. I think is an injustice what's happening to young people. I remember well. It was like a gun being put to your head. Buy now our never afford one. Rent was not much cheaper either. If you were a young couple growing up then you could not put your life on hold indefinitely. Waiting for prices to fall.

Ok. Some people are saying. Tough, its what you signed up for, take your medicine. Ok. See what happens if those people are left in that situation. The country will not recover and even the people with the incredible foresight will be affected.

Cry me a river. Many young people could not afford to buy or just didn't buy out of common sense.

The country will recover with or without those people you speak of, they bought at an agreed price for what the property was worth to them.

They are only a portion of the demographic who were foolish to be taken in by spin that a 1 bed flat in junkieville was worth 300k.

benway

SeanW wrote: »

Very simple. I would have compensated retail depositors and told everyone else to go to Hell. The U.S. has a mechanism to this called the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, so that when a small/regional bank fails the FDIC steps in to help depositors. And they don't step in until the bank actually falls.

If only they hadn't done other stuff like passed the Community Reinvestment Act, created a series of bubbles like housing construction and actaully let Wall St bankers go f*** themselves when they came a cropper, America would now be a lot better off if their bank 'rescue' actions had been limited to the remit of the FDIC.

Ireland would be like Iceland now - already on the road to recovery and with about €80bn or so less national debt.

Lotta state intervention for a libertarian, but I'm running with it - we'll leave aside the sort of short-term chaos that allowing them to fold would've caused.

What about mortgage holders? Are they still liable as debtors in the liquidation? Even after the value of their property has collapsed? I mean, they signed a contract, right?

emo72 wrote: »

I'm not affected by this at all. I bought my home years ago. I think is an injustice what's happening to young people. I remember well. It was like a gun being put to your head. Buy now our never afford one. Rent was not much cheaper either. If you were a young couple growing up then you could not put your life on hold indefinitely. Waiting for prices to fall.

+10000000 to this

I didn't buy, but the amount of pressure from family and friends was shocking - it was almost like I was slightly simple for not wanting to get on the "property ladder".

Personally, I think that one of the quid pro quos for the level of taxpayer support extended to the banks should be a system of debt forgiveness, they're having it every way at the moment.

Faolchu

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Do you think it's fair that they're charging 2% more than anyone else?

if you want a pure clinical answer then if that is the contract that you and the 79999 others signed up to then yes it is fair. i dont recal there being any obligation on them to reduce interest rates

blaze1

Ring Eamon Gilmore 01 6183566 if you are one of the 80,000.