Aritech cs 250m fault

vwt

I'm a first time poster,have been reading some of the previous threads and there seems to be a lot of experienced alarm installers on here who might be able to give me some advice.I installed an aritech cs 250 panel with wireless door and window contacts and wireless pir.The internal sounder and external Saab are hard wired.Recently I noticed a strange noise coming from the internal sounder,almost like a buzzing noise.The next day we had a phantom alarm with no apparent cause,it happened twice the next day and the keypad indicated "ext tamper fault".Just to be sure I bridged the connections in the Saab and put a 4k7 resistor across the terminals,fault remained.Thinking I had a fault board I replaced it with a cs 245 and as soon as I wired it up the internal sounder was giving the exact same buzzing noise...
Now the keypad is not responding....
Apologies for the long post and any help/advice would be much appreciated!!

altor

vwt wrote: »

I'm a first time poster,have been reading some of the previous threads and there seems to be a lot of experienced alarm installers on here who might be able to give me some advice.I installed an aritech cs 250 panel with wireless door and window contacts and wireless pir.The internal sounder and external Saab are hard wired.Recently I noticed a strange noise coming from the internal sounder,almost like a buzzing noise.The next day we had a phantom alarm with no apparent cause,it happened twice the next day and the keypad indicated "ext tamper fault".Just to be sure I bridged the connections in the Saab and put a 4k7 resistor across the terminals,fault remained.Thinking I had a fault board I replaced it with a cs 245 and as soon as I wired it up the internal sounder was giving the exact same buzzing noise...
Now the keypad is not responding....
Apologies for the long post and any help/advice would be much appreciated!!

More than likely there is a problem with the internal bell. If you disconnect it and power back up the alarm does the keypad come back on?

vwt

Thanks for the reply altor...
Haven't actually tried that,do you think that would throw up an ext tamper fault??.Am I correct in saying that the negative from the Saab is connected with the negative of the internal bell?
I put the old board back in and rewired as before,the keypad just said version 1.5 etc,no response from push buttons and LEDs not displayed,internal sounder was ringing

altor

vwt wrote: »

Thanks for the reply altor...
Haven't actually tried that,do you think that would throw up an ext tamper fault??.Am I correct in saying that the negative from the Saab is connected with the negative of the internal bell?
I put the old board back in and rewired as before,the keypad just said version 1.5 etc,no response from push buttons and LEDs not displayed,internal sounder was ringing

The internal bell is connected to the strobe also. The tamper issue would relate to the tamper on the external bell, also if the tamper off the internal bell was ran in series with the external bell this could be the cause. There is no fuses in the 250 so if there is an issue removing any powered devices and adding them again one by one may show what the issue is.

KoolKid

If there internal is like an SB1 you can sometimes get feedback from the strobe.
Wire it in without the strobe to confirm or eliminate this.

vwt

KoolKid wrote: »

If there internal is like an SB1 you can sometimes get feedback from the strobe.
Wire it in without the strobe to confirm or eliminate this.

Thanks for the reply kk.The internal bell has no strobe,sounder only.I only have two wires connected in the tamper connections of the panel,these are from the external tamper connections of the bell.I think I did notice 3v at the internal bell connections yesterday.So are we saying that the external Saab could be at fault??
Any ideas on the keypad?

KoolKid

Is the internal bell & the strobe from the external both connected to internal bell + & - at the panel?

vwt

KoolKid wrote: »

Is the internal bell & the strobe from the external both connected to internal bell + & - at the panel?

Yes...
The strobe connection is in with the negative of the internal bell

KoolKid

If you disconnect the strobe does the noise coming from the internal stop?

vwt

KoolKid wrote: »

If you disconnect the strobe does the noise coming from the internal stop?

Havent tried that yet....
The cs 245 board and cs 250 boards seemed to react differently!.I'm in work at the min so I'm gonna try a few more things later......
If unsuccessful the whole lot is goin in the bin,wouldn't mind it's only 4 yrs old!

KoolKid

I was never a big fan of the CS2** range to be honest. But the feedback is a common problems on a good few Panel/Bell combinations. A 1k resistor across the internal may also sort it.

vwt

KoolKid wrote: »

I was never a big fan of the CS2** range to be honest. But the feedback is a common problems on a good few Panel/Bell combinations. A 1k resistor across the internal may also sort it.

Is there a good panel you could recommend that is compatible with the aritech wireless gear???.I spent a lot of money on this junk and I don't want to have to replace everything???

fred funk }{

There is nothing wrong with the Aritech 250 panels. I've been installing them for years. Your problem seems like a cable problem either the external cable or the internal cable.

Disconnect both bells from the devices and the panel and meter out the cables for shorts/continuity. If both cables are okay then wire one bell in at a time abs see which one causes the fault.

Jnealon

Sounds like a feedback issue.
Program another output as a bell or strobe and connect the internal bell to it

altor

vwt wrote: »

Is there a good panel you could recommend that is compatible with the aritech wireless gear???.I spent a lot of money on this junk and I don't want to have to replace everything???

To be honest if you have a lot of components for this system them try sort the issue with the bell, more than likely one of them is faulty or there is a cable issue.

If you did decide to use a different system then the UTC NX10 would be able to take the older wire free components with a 433 receiver.

vwt

Thanks for all the replies lads...
All the wiring has been checked for continuity and seems fine.I'm starting to think its a feedback issue from the external strobe because when I connect it to the panel I get this weird humming from the internal bell!.I've got a brand new external and internal bell(both aritech) and I'll try wire them up tomorrow to see if I can sort it.The panel is giving a bus tamp/sys tamp fault with the strobe disconnected and a sys tamp/ext tamp fault with it connected!!!

KoolKid

Bus tamp would be no nothing to do with the strobe.
Have you disconnected the keypad at any stage?

fred funk }{

You have something seriously mixed up. I would be very surprised if its a faulty panel ir device.

Can you take a picture of the wiring in the panel?

vwt

KoolKid wrote: »

Bus tamp would be no nothing to do with the strobe.
Have you disconnected the keypad at any stage?

I found it strange myself kk
Yes keypad has been disconnected and reconnected a number of times....

vwt

fred funk }{ wrote: »

You have something seriously mixed up. I would be very surprised if its a faulty panel ir device.

Can you take a picture of the wiring in the panel?

I don't think so ff....i originally wired it up four yrs ago as per cs250m manual had no issues....I'm hoping when I replace the bells later it's resolved,or maybe I'm naive!!!
Bus tamp refers to tamp on rf expander??

altor

vwt wrote: »

I don't think so ff....i originally wired it up four yrs ago as per cs250m manual had no issues....I'm hoping when I replace the bells later it's resolved,or maybe I'm naive!!!
Bus tamp refers to tamp on rf expander??

Yes the bus tamper would refer to the rf expander. I would change out the internal bell first, since you never had an issue this is more than likely where the problem is.

vwt

altor wrote: »

vwt wrote: »

I don't think so ff....i originally wired it up four yrs ago as per cs250m manual had no issues....I'm hoping when I replace the bells later it's resolved,or maybe I'm naive!!!
Bus tamp refers to tamp on rf expander??

Yes the bus tamper would refer to the rf expander. I would change out the internal bell first, since you never had an issue this is more than likely where the problem is.

So just wired in new internal and external bells.Weird humming noise is gone from internal bell but keypad still saying Sys tamp and ext tamp....
Also when I do an external bell test it the voltage keeps fluctuating between 14 and 7 volts,doesn't stay constant

KoolKid

On the external bell put the resistor across the Bell Hold Off & tamper return at the panel.
For the bus tamper goto Inputs > Eng Reset > Configure > Yes press OK
Leave for upto 2 minutes & come out of engineer.

vwt

KoolKid wrote: »

On the external bell put the resistor across the Bell Hold Off & tamper return at the panel.
For the bus tamper goto Inputs > Eng Reset > Configure > Yes press OK
Leave for upto 2 minutes & come out of engineer.

Tks Kk...
I'm so close now,manage to clear all faults,have 4k7 resistor across tamper terminals in panel.The only prob is the external bell,I got an as 195 as a replacement...
How should it be wired,it refers to bho and tamper return in panel....
All I have is two ext tamper connections

KoolKid

The Hold off is the one that read permanant negetive.
From memory I think its the left as you look at it.

vwt

KoolKid wrote: »

The Hold off is the one that read permanant negetive.
From memory I think its the left as you look at it.

I must be connecting it wrong,it gives me a fault as soon as I do...
There is 5 connections in the bell,strobe x 1,hold off x 2,return and trigger...
Can somebody tell me exactly how they should be connected in the 250 panel

KoolKid

Place the resistor across the hold off and the tamper return cables at the bell end.
That will eliminate a problem with the cable.

vwt

KoolKid wrote: »

Place the resistor across the hold off and the tamper return cables at the bell end.
That will eliminate a problem with the cable.

Just to report an update....at last everything is up and running,working perfectly with no faults!!
The bell actually needed a permanent 12v unswitched at the bho terminals!!!!!
So its not connected to the ext bell connections in the panel at all!
Id like to thank everyone who took the time and effort to offer advice!
Thanks again!

KoolKid

Ext + and BHO is permanent 12 volts either way.
Anyway, glad its all sorted.

altor

vwt wrote: »

Just to report an update....at last everything is up and running,working perfectly with no faults!!
The bell actually needed a permanent 12v unswitched at the bho terminals!!!!!
So its not connected to the ext bell connections in the panel at all!
Id like to thank everyone who took the time and effort to offer advice!
Thanks again!

Did you end up replacing any device?

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

Did you end up replacing any device?

I think he changed the bells.

vwt wrote: »

So just wired in new internal and external bells.Weird humming noise is gone from internal bell

altor

Had to be a fault with something, pity he did not just change the internal first to see if that stopped the humming.

KoolKid

With that feedback it can be either.
A resistor or switching outputs would have probably sorted it as well.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

With that feedback it can be either.
A resistor or switching outputs would have probably sorted it as well.

We will never know

vwt

Just to clear things up Altor...
When I replaced the internal bell,the strange humming sound had disappeared but I still had a system fault and bus fault.I reinstalled the rf expander in the peripherals menu and that seemed to sort it.I wired up the outside bell with the bho terminals supplied with a constant 12v unswitched.I wired a 4k7 resistor across these terminals in the panel.I think the original problem was definitely caused by one of the sounders,and for some reason the rf expander was giving the sys/bus fault

KoolKid

Happy days & hopefully many peaceful nights. What external bell did you get?

vwt

Yeh hope so,I've gained a few grey hairs but learned a lot in the process...
I think it's an Aritech as 195,not the prettiest but I got it for nothing,and it has the constant red and green leds as a deterrent!

KoolKid

Well long may it last. Any hassles you know where we are...;)

altor

vwt wrote: »

Just to clear things up Altor...
When I replaced the internal bell,the strange humming sound had disappeared but I still had a system fault and bus fault.I reinstalled the rf expander in the peripherals menu and that seemed to sort it.I wired up the outside bell with the bho terminals supplied with a constant 12v unswitched.I wired a 4k7 resistor across these terminals in the panel.I think the original problem was definitely caused by one of the sounders,and for some reason the rf expander was giving the sys/bus fault

Thanks vwt,

Would of expected it to be the internal bell since that's where the humming was coming from. Ken was very good to you, he is one of the good ones

vwt

Yeh Ken is a sound bloke indeed....
This was my last stab at it before I threw in the towel....,
You were nearly getting a phone call :rolleyes:

altor

vwt wrote: »

Yeh Ken is a sound bloke indeed....
This was my last stab at it before I threw in the towel....,
You were nearly getting a phone call :rolleyes:

Always happy to help if I can, just like Ken is

vwt

altor wrote: »

vwt wrote: »

Yeh Ken is a sound bloke indeed....
This was my last stab at it before I threw in the towel....,
You were nearly getting a phone call :rolleyes:

Always happy to help if I can, just like Ken is

Success didn't last long!!!
Last three nights in a row,alarm goes off for no reason!!!!.It happens when system is in part arm,and key pad says bus fault full!
When I check all zones and system tamps there is no fault!
Ever come across this?
Head wrecked!

altor

vwt wrote: »

Success didn't last long!!!
Last three nights in a row,alarm goes off for no reason!!!!.It happens when system is in part arm,and key pad says bus fault full!
When I check all zones and system tamps there is no fault!
Ever come across this?
Head wrecked!

The bus fault is related to devices added to the system. Down power and power the system back up again. Did you say you have the engineer code off the system?

vwt

altor wrote: »

vwt wrote: »

Success didn't last long!!!
Last three nights in a row,alarm goes off for no reason!!!!.It happens when system is in part arm,and key pad says bus fault full!
When I check all zones and system tamps there is no fault!
Ever come across this?
Head wrecked!

The bus fault is related to devices added to the system. Down power and power the system back up again. Did you say you have the engineer code off the system?

Engineer code is the standard 4 digit code.The only stuff added to the system is key fob and rf expander.Its strange because the systems lets you arm it no probs and when it alarms you can re-arm it straight away with no problems

altor

vwt wrote: »

Engineer code is the standard 4 digit code.The only stuff added to the system is key fob and rf expander.Its strange because the systems lets you arm it no probs and when it alarms you can re-arm it straight away with no problems

Since it is not picking up on the fault all the time it may be a loose connection in the RF expander or the control panel. Have you added a new keypad or a different RF expander to the system?

vwt

altor wrote: »

vwt wrote: »

Engineer code is the standard 4 digit code.The only stuff added to the system is key fob and rf expander.Its strange because the systems lets you arm it no probs and when it alarms you can re-arm it straight away with no problems

Since it is not picking up on the fault all the time it may be a loose connection in the RF expander or the control panel. Have you added a new keypad or a different RF expander to the system?

I think connections are good..
I have a new expander and keypad at home,which is more likely?
Seems to be one thing after another!

altor

vwt wrote: »

I think connections are good..
I have a new expander and keypad at home,which is more likely?
Seems to be one thing after another!

The reason I asked was if you add a new device without taking the other device out of the system then it can give a bus fault. If not then powering down the system and powering it back up should clear the fault. Otherwise you will need to go into installation, peripherals menu and re-enroll the device. More than likely an issue with the receiver.

fred funk }{

Does it activate at exactly the same time every night?

D rog

Hello,

We have a 5 year old CS250 Panel in one room which was intermittantly rattling for about the last 3 weeks. It's now rattling quite a lot!
I was just wondering if anyone has any knowledge of this, is it a known fault or any ideas even where to start?
There are no errors or messages or were no power outages or unusual circumstances when it started.

KoolKid

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. What's rattling ?

D rog

It sounds like something inside the keypad.
Click, click, then a faster maybe 5 clicks, then nothing for 5 mins.
Then starts for 2 mins...you get the idea