David Moyes - UEFA Conspiracy Cost Everton Champions League Place

Paully D

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11661/7590220/Moyes-UEFA-hot-balls-cost-us

David Moyes believes there was a conspiracy against Everton when they qualified for the UEFA Champions League in 2005.

The club operate on a shoestring budget compared to other Premier League rivals and a Champions League run would have given the team a much-needed financial boost.

However, Moyes feels after Liverpool winning the competition the previous season, UEFA was keen to avoid including five English clubs.

Everton were drawn against Villarreal in the qualifying stage and went out 4-2 on aggregate.

"It was a defining point for us. Villarreal went onto the semi-final," Moyes said.

"The draw we got was a stinker. I always think it was the 'hot balls' in the bag that day.

"We went away (trailing 2-1) and Duncan Ferguson scored to make it 2-1 on the night to take it to extra-time and Pierluigi Collina chops it off.

"That could have changed what we did at Everton. If we had got into the group stages with the money that was available...

"Everyone knows the previous season Liverpool had won the European Cup so deep down I didn't think they (UEFA) wanted five British teams in the group stages.

"I am sure they were all delighted when we were knocked out."

Thoughts?

Guy:Incognito

They didnt want 5 British teams in it did they not? Were Rangers and/or Celtic kept out too so?


Sounds like bitter ramblings tbh.

Mr Alan

Ridiculous but not surprising from him tbh.

niallo27

That club has made him into a bitter man, no surprise really.

retalivity

it was 7 years ago ffs....move on

Skid

Ridiculous rant from Moyes. Everton finished 11th in the Premier League that year. I don't think they were ever going to make much of an impact in the Champions League.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

They didnt want 5 British teams in it did they not? Were Rangers and/or Celtic kept out too so?


Sounds like bitter ramblings tbh.

It was nothing to do wit Rangers or Celtic and it was five ENGLISH teams

Paul Tergat

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

It was nothing to do wit Rangers or Celtic and it was five ENGLISH teams

in moyes' quote he said 5 british!

Guy:Incognito

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

It was nothing to do wit Rangers or Celtic and it was five ENGLISH teams

I know that. But the quote says British:


"I didn't think they (UEFA) wanted five British teams in the group stages"

Just makes the rant sound incoherant.

ArmaniJeanss

They were an unseeded team in the final qualifying round, so there were some absolute stinkers of draws they could have got.

Looking at wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005%E2%80%9306_UEFA_Champions_League#Third_qualifying_round

they had 14 possible opponents (couldn't play Liverpool or MUFC afaik) and they could have got Inter, Ajax, Udinese, Werder Bremen or Villareal.
So 5 of their 14 possible opponents were really horrible ties, a 2/1 shot which came up. Hardly a conspiracy.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

I think it's time he builds a bridge.

They ain't called the bitters for nothing.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

It was nothing to do wit Rangers or Celtic and it was five ENGLISH teams

in moyes' quote he said 5 british!

Look Moyes can say British all he wants it comes down to the simple fact that with Liverpool winning it and then not qualifying for the following season they changed the rules
Moyes should get over it though it been a while

Mr Alan

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Look Moyes can say British all he wants it comes down to the simple fact that with Liverpool winning it and then not qualifying for the following season they changed the rules
Moyes should get over it though it been a while

Liverpool's presence in the competition is of no relevance to Everton

Lumbo

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Moyes should get over it though it been a while

He's at Everton 10 years this week. Unsurprisingly, he's being asked questions about the last 10 years.

Liam O

Mr Alan wrote: »

Liverpool's presence in the competition is of no relevance to Everton

It did make their odds of a favourable draw a bit worse and due to the butterfly effect may have changed the draw but it is a bit late to be coming out with this now

Lumbo

Mr Alan wrote: »

Liverpool's presence in the competition is of no relevance to Everton

It had relevance to Arsenal, Chelsea and United. If all 5 teams had of qualified for the group stages the money would of had to been split 5 ways instead of 4. Costing each club around £5m each. Those clubs weren't happy that the rules had been changed.

emrys

ifithadntbeenforvillareal

Mr Alan

The rules weren't changed.

A gap in the rules was clarified that the holders will always be in it. Makes sense.

Mr Alan

Lumbo wrote: »

He's at Everton 10 years this week. Unsurprisingly, he's talked about Liverpool a lot & just oozed general bitterness

FYP

legendary.xix

It was a turning point to be fair. No harm in some stuff coming up from time to time. He is celebrating 10 years, turning points etc. good and part are going to come up.

eh i dunno

Love all the "bitter" jibes lads. King Kenny revolution in full swing :pac:

Mr Alan

Lumbo wrote: »

It had relevance to Arsenal, Chelsea and United. If all 5 teams had of qualified for the group stages the money would of had to been split 5 ways instead of 4. Costing each club around £5m each. Those clubs weren't happy that the rules had been changed.

Yet it's Moyes & Everton who constantly bring it up.

Strange that.

Paul Tergat

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Look Moyes can say British all he wants it comes down to the simple fact that with Liverpool winning it and then not qualifying for the following season they changed the rules
Moyes should get over it though it been a while

Agree but this is the only reason its even been brought up:

Lumbo wrote: »

He's at Everton 10 years this week. Unsurprisingly, he's being asked questions about the last 10 years.

He will have been asked rather than him going to the press with it


The only reason I commented was that it was Moyes who mentioned Britain which is a strange thing to say as it technically then involves the old firm.

killwill

Mr Alan wrote: »

Yet it's Moyes & Everton who constantly bring it up.

Strange that.

Alan, I realise as a Liverpool fan you dislike Everton FC and David Moyes but just like the Glen Johnson interview last week, Moyes was asked a question and answered it. He didn't go digging it up.

Guy:Incognito

Beign asked about stuff that happens int he past is grand. Going on a rant about conspiracies is entirely his own doing.

Mr Alan

killwill wrote: »

Alan, I realise as a Liverpool fan you dislike Everton FC and David Moyes but just like the Glen Johnson interview last week, Moyes was asked a question and answered it. He didn't go digging it up.

Actually Moyes always goes out of his way to bring both it & Liverpool up.

And Johnson was an idiot for talking about that again.

losthorizon

Mr Alan wrote: »

The rules weren't changed.

A gap in the rules was clarified that the holders will always be in it. Makes sense.

The rules were bent for the English clubs under pressure by the FA on UEFA. As for the draw there was no way in advance teams were preordained to get one team over another. The exact situation happened in Spain the season before. The Spanish league didnt complain and just entered their four teams.


And the English teams are the ones complaining?:rolleyes:

Hannibal

is he suggesting that UEFA or Collina were somehow involved in match fixing in some way? it seems to me that he's suggesting this in a veiled way

Moyes gets a lot of media credit for being one of the best managers around, yet he whines constantly about having no money. Everton are not going to be able to compete anytime soon so why doesn't he take the plunge and attempt to try for a new job.. Spurs, Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea have all had vacancies in the recent past or are likely to have vacancies in the near future but I never hear his name mentioned for these jobs.. I know Liverpool is highly unlikely but his severe lack of European experience will hamper him

Washington Irving

losthorizon wrote: »

The rules were bent for the English clubs under pressure by the FA on UEFA. As for the draw there was no way in advance teams were preordained to get one team over another. The exact situation happened in Spain the season before. The Spanish league didnt complain and just entered their four teams.


And the English teams are the ones complaining?:rolleyes:

What's this?

dreamers75

Would have thought TNS offering to play Liverpool for their spot and then drawing them was more dubious than Everton getting Villareal.

Cameron Poe

Dotsey wrote: »

so why doesn't he take the plunge and attempt to try for a new job.. Spurs, Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea have all had vacancies in the recent past or are likely to have vacancies in the near future but I never hear his name mentioned for these jobs.. I know Liverpool is highly unlikely but his severe lack of European experience will hamper him

He seems to have a fairly strong stance on the way clubs are run. Check out this article http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17306087

He probably will go if the right job comes along but I can't see him going to Chelsea or City. Liverpool are arguably worse than Everton at the moment.

ArmaniJeanss

Saul-Goode9 wrote: »

What's this?

It was 5 years previous (1999/2000) that Real Madrid won the Champions League but didn't finish high enough in La Liga to qualify for the following seasons competition, the Liverpool situation if you will.

In this instance the Spanish FA and fourth placed Zaragoza didn't push the issue the way the FA/Everton did. Real as holders got the place, and Zaragoza got bumped down to the then UEFA Cup but got financial compensation.

astrofool

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

It was 5 years previous (1999/2000) that Real Madrid won the Champions League but didn't finish high enough in La Liga to qualify for the following seasons competition, the Liverpool situation if you will.

In this instance the Spanish FA and fourth placed Zaragoza didn't push the issue the way the FA/Everton did. Real as holders got the place, and Zaragoza got bumped down to the then UEFA Cup but got financial compensation.

That was because the Spanish FA had a different rule to the English FA.

Washington Irving

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

It was 5 years previous (1999/2000) that Real Madrid won the Champions League but didn't finish high enough in La Liga to qualify for the following seasons competition, the Liverpool situation if you will.

In this instance the Spanish FA and fourth placed Zaragoza didn't push the issue the way the FA/Everton did. Real as holders got the place, and Zaragoza got bumped down to the then UEFA Cup but got financial compensation.

Ok, thanks. I thought he was implying a Spanish team won it in 04.

So based on the way the Spaniards done it, Liverpool were rightfully awarded a place in the CL. I assume the decision of who qualifies is up to the FA of whatever country?

ArmaniJeanss

astrofool wrote: »

That was because the Spanish FA had a different rule to the English FA.

In theory the individual rules of the FAs don't matter a jot as the Champions League is actually an invitational event.
So the English FA nominate the top 4 and UEFA extend the invitation as a matter of course.
However the FA had threatened to test this in European courts if the UEFA invited Liverpool over Everton.

Saul-Goode9 wrote: »

Ok, thanks. I thought he was implying a Spanish team won it in 04.

So based on the way the Spaniards done it, Liverpool were rightfully awarded a place in the CL. I assume the decision of who qualifies is up to the FA of whatever country?

I think its safe to say with the rule change made after 2005 that the way Spain dealt with it in 2000 was the way UEFA intended it. Fair fcuks to the FA for sticking to their guns and getting a 5th team in.

Laois_Man

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

they had 14 possible opponents (couldn't play Liverpool or MUFC afaik) and they could have got Inter, Ajax, Udinese, Werder Bremen or Villareal.
So 5 of their 14 possible opponents were really horrible ties, a 2/1 shot which came up. Hardly a conspiracy.

Everton got THE WORST one...which is a 14/1 shot....not a 2/1 shot. And you never mentioned the goal that got chalked off for no apparent reason. To this day I still can't see a thing wrong with it no matter how many times I look. Collina's last ever game as he coincidentally retired immediatley afterwards! How strange for a referee to retire at the start of a season and at such an unglamerous stage!!!

rarnes1 wrote: »

They ain't called the bitters for nothing.

A bit like the club who cry over another club passing their number of league titles - and a bit like the non-Man City supporters who are praying for City to win the title yeah?

Mr Alan wrote: »

Yet it's Moyes & Everton who constantly bring it up.

Strange that.

Mr Alan wrote: »

Actually Moyes always goes out of his way to bring both it & Liverpool up.

Please show me where else Moyes or anyone else at Everton has ever said this since the event. Link?

Dotsey wrote: »

Spurs, Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea have all had vacancies in the recent past or are likely to have vacancies in the near future but I never hear his name mentioned for these jobs.

Are you living on Mars? Moyes has been linked to both Chelsea and Spurs over the last month - and is constantly linked to suceeding Alex Ferguson at Man Utd too!

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

In theory the individual rules of the FAs don't matter a jot as the Champions League is actually an invitational event

What does "In theory" mean? Either they do or the don't. And they do. The rules stated before that season started was that the top 4 qualified for the Champions League.

I suppose some people even think Qatar got the 2022 World Cup coz it was the best location n all!

LuckyLloyd

lol, that's an utterly idiotic suggestion from Moyes. Himself and Jim Corr would probably enjoy each other's company.

http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Tin-Foil-Hat.jpg

Laois_Man

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

lol, that's an utterly idiotic suggestion from Moyes. Himself and Jim Corr would probably enjoy each other's company.

In that case, can you tell me what was wrong with Duncan Ferguson's goal please?

batistuta9

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

lol, that's an utterly idiotic suggestion from Moyes. Himself and Jim Corr would probably enjoy each other's company.

it's a common enough thought in england that UEFA have a thing against english clubs, Especially platini

remember barca against chelsea and just listen to the commentators/pundits if english sides are KO'd they'll make reference to the dislike

citytillidie

batistuta9 wrote: »

it's a common enough thought in england that UEFA have a thing against english clubs, Especially platini

remember barca against chelsea and just listen to the commentators/pundits if english sides are KO'd they'll make reference to the dislike

Platini was not the head of UEFA until 2007 so nothing to do with this.

batistuta9

citytillidie wrote: »

Platini was not the head of UEFA until 2007 so nothing to do with this.

i said UEFA first - whoever was in charge

but they say he really dislikes the english sides dominating that's why i mentioned him.

PHB

I also thought this when it happened. I've believed the draws can be rigged for quite some time. Not always, but sometimes.

dreamers75

batistuta9 wrote: »

but they say he really dislikes the english sides dominating that's why i mentioned him.

As he thinks they have an unfair advantage due to monies spent. Which in fairness hes right.

batistuta9

dreamers75 wrote: »

As he thinks they have an unfair advantage due to monies spent. Which in fairness hes right.

you mean the english club's right?

if so real, barca, bayern, inter and some eastern european sides & probably others as well have all spent there fair share of money their not paupers by any means

dreamers75

batistuta9 wrote: »

you mean the english club's right?

if so real, barca, bayern, inter and some eastern european sides & probably others as well have all spent there fair share of money their not paupers by any means

Spent money they earned, Bayern are possibly the best run club in the world.

He hates sugar daddies and oil barons buying clubs and then players with no income to cover it.

So mostly man city and chelsea.

ArmaniJeanss

Laois_Man wrote: »

Everton got THE WORST one...which is a 14/1 shot....not a 2/1 shot. And you never mentioned the goal that got chalked off for no apparent reason. To this day I still can't see a thing wrong with it no matter how many times I look. Collina's last ever game as he coincidentally retired immediatley afterwards! How strange for a referee to retire at the start of a season and at such an unglamerous stage!!!

C'mon, you are stringing a series of unrelated events into some wild conspiracy theory. Its common knowledge that Collina retired in a huff when the Italian FA vetoed his sponsorships just before the season started, hence his last game was a pre-season CL qualifier.

As for Villareal being the worst draw, thats a hindsight thing.
At the time of the draw Inter and Panthanaiokos had a higher coefficent, and it appears Liverpool were a possible opponent as well (5 English teams problem insta-solved for UEFA).
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/history/seedcl2005.html

batistuta9

dreamers75 wrote: »

Spent money they earned, Bayern are possibly the best run club in the world.

He hates sugar daddies and oil barons buying clubs and then players with no income to cover it.

So mostly man city and chelsea.

I'm not too sure about how bayern are run but i'll take your word but they spend a lot of money

does he hate shakhtar? oil/sugar daddy funded i think. & anzhi now too

moratti's inter? an oil baron right there

barca owed a huge amount to the banks did they not, real nearly spend as they wish as well but would have a massive global income

apoel with their €7mil budget - where is that coming from

there are a lot of clubs who spend more that they earn and i don't think all those clubs have been just spending what they earned

He might not like the rich man buying a club, pumping money in & winning but chelsea + city aren't the only examples of it, i was more under the impression that he didn't like them dominating it

latenia

The way it was being reported at the time was as if Liverpool were the ones begging to be allowed in when it had always been the case that the champions qualified automatically, going right back to the European Cup days when this scenario arose more often. Moyes should be grateful that he was even given a shot at qualifying.

Lumbo

latenia wrote: »

The way it was being reported at the time was as if Liverpool were the ones begging to be allowed in when it had always been the case that the champions qualified automatically, going right back to the European Cup days when this scenario arose more often. Moyes should be grateful that he was even given a shot at qualifying.

Really?

Then why did Liverpool have to enter the competition in the first round?

And why did UEFA then change the rules to make sure the Champions defended the Cup after 2005/06?