Pros and Cons of MacBooks...

Togepi

Hi everyone, I'm looking into buying my first laptop and I'm wondering what's so good about MacBooks. The one I'm looking at currently costs $1,600 or €1,220, so I really want to know if paying that much for one would be worth it. What makes them so great?

Also if anyone has any disadvantages of them I'd love to hear those too!

sports_

a windows pc is better. macs are good but over priced compared to windows. i would buy a mac if it was aound 700 euro not 1200 for a basic enough model

Torqay

Pro: they're gorgeous

Con: they're made by Apple

If you compare performance and specs, you get pretty much the same elsewhere for half that money.

If you're worried about your software, no problem, they can run Windows (which kinda defies the idea of buying an Apple computer) since they're using the same components as everyone else.

Togepi

Fair enough. Is their anything that justifies the price of Macs though?



Also, I might as well post a few reasons why I'd like a Mac:

1.) They're beautiful!
2.) They're really slim and lightweight
3.) They have iMovie
4.) I'm assuming they're fairly fast
5.) ...

That's actually all I can think of right now!

Cons:

1.) The price
2.) They don't use Windows so I'd imagine they can be a bit awkward seeing as most people use Windows

I'm sure there's more!

Torqay

Togepi wrote: »

Is their anything that justifies the price of Macs though?

They have restaurants and swimming pools in their sweatshops, which, according to the late Steve Jobs, makes them "pretty nice for a factory".

Togepi

Torqay wrote: »

They have restaurants and swimming pools in their sweatshops, which, sccording to the late Steve Jobs, makes them "pretty nice for a factory".

Oh yeah, I forgot about the sweatshops... On second thoughts I think I'll keep my €1,220, not that I actually had anywhere near that much in the first place!

_AVALANCHE_

Paulw

Togepi wrote: »

I'm looking into buying my first laptop and I'm wondering what's so good about MacBooks. The one I'm looking at currently costs $1,600 or €1,220, so I really want to know if paying that much for one would be worth it. What makes them so great?

Also if anyone has any disadvantages of them I'd love to hear those too!

What do you want it for?

If it's for web surfing and such, then a PC laptop is just fine, and will be a lot cheaper.

If you want it for digital editing (photo processing, video processing, etc) then a macbook is much better, and worth the price.

Torqay

Paulw wrote: »

If you want it for digital editing (photo processing, video processing, etc) then a macbook is much better

Care to elaborate? I say this is a myth: since the hardware (Intel Core CPU, AMD Radeon HD graphics) is the same, it can only be a matter of the software and most top programs in each realm are available for both platforms (if you discard Sony Vegas, which is Windows only).

deconduo

Torqay wrote: »

Care to elaborate? I say this is a myth: since the hardware (Intel Core CPU, AMD Radeon HD graphics) is the same, it can only be a matter of the software and most top programs in each realm are available for both platforms (if you discard Sony Vegas, which is Windows only).

Yes its a marketing myth. In fact, given the same hardware specs, most programs will run better on Windows 7 than on OSX.

Paulw

deconduo wrote: »

Yes its a marketing myth. In fact, given the same hardware specs, most programs will run better on Windows 7 than on OSX.

From practical experience, it's not a myth.

Photoshop, Adobe Lightroom, PhotoMechanic all run faster on OSX than on Windows.

I have a MacBook Pro - 2.4GHz quad-core Intel Core i7, 8GB ram, 750GB HDD.
I also have a desktop PC - i7-3930K 3.20GHz, 16GB ram, 240GB SSD, etc.

I find that the MacBook Pro is faster at processing, especially bulk processing of images.

I can only that either the Mac OS is better at handling the code, or the applications are better enhanced to use the OS and hardware than on the Windows machines.

Either way, when I need things done quickly, I use the Mac. When I have more time, everything goes through the PC.

fionny

It is a total myth, historically they were more efficient today its not so true especially when you go down the road of comparing what you can get for your money apple vs windows machine.

Its like how when you buy a new mobile phone the staff always tout the stupid line of

"charge that for 24 hours before you use it now..." that was for batteries with memory of the Ni-Cad make up... times have moved on but it sounds intelligent so it continues to be spouted.

deconduo

Paulw wrote: »

From practical experience, it's not a myth.

Photoshop, Adobe Lightroom, PhotoMechanic all run faster on OSX than on Windows.

I have a MacBook Pro - 2.4GHz quad-core Intel Core i7, 8GB ram, 750GB HDD.
I also have a desktop PC - i7-3930K 3.20GHz, 16GB ram, 240GB SSD, etc.

I find that the MacBook Pro is faster at processing, especially bulk processing of images.

I can only that either the Mac OS is better at handling the code, or the applications are better enhanced to use the OS and hardware than on the Windows machines.

Either way, when I need things done quickly, I use the Mac. When I have more time, everything goes through the PC.

Then you are doing something very very wrong. There are numerous benchmarks that show otherwise. Do you have Windows 32-bit on your computer or something?

henryporter

Pros:

Virus-free
Immediate start-up/shut-down
Handy utilities like Automator to do any kind of mundane repetitive tasks
Time machine for backups
Painfree plug and play plus network connecting (none of this windows stand on your head with your router strapped to your left foot while simultaneously typing the passwords in 12 languages with the middle toe of your right foot and it still doesn't work crack)

Cons:
Price
Service - have to go to an Apple shop to get it fixed (and yes they do break down)
Suffering the abuse if jealous owners of ugly laptops:D

Paulw

deconduo wrote: »

Then you are doing something very very wrong. There are numerous benchmarks that show otherwise. Do you have Windows 32-bit on your computer or something?

I'm not "doing" anything different. Workflow is identical on both.

Windows 7 Professional, 64bit.

I must dig out my resource monitor where at one stage Lightroom (on the PC) is using almost 16gb of ram. I've yet to see anything close to that happening on the mac.

Oh, and this MacBook Pro is my first ever mac.

fionny

henryporter wrote: »

Pros:

Virus-free
Immediate start-up/shut-down
Handy utilities like Automator to do any kind of mundane repetitive tasks
Time machine for backups
Painfree plug and play plus network connecting (none of this windows stand on your head with your router strapped to your left foot while simultaneously typing the passwords in 12 languages with the middle toe of your right foot and it still doesn't work crack)

Cons:
Price
Service - have to go to an Apple shop to get it fixed (and yes they do break down)
Suffering the abuse if jealous owners of ugly laptops:D

Im sorry but I think you should elaborate on that because that statement is utter b****x.


Also Automator... wow ya like macro's? no way wow another thing apple didnt invent.

Virus-Free = Myth. Its true they are less likely but this is purely because the majority of viruses are written to hit as many people are humanly possible and macs dont fill that criteria.

Torqay

3 operating systems benchmarked on the same Core i5 iMac:

while Windows 7 and OS X Lion gained similar overall results - Lion is slightly faster in image editing, Windows in video encoding and multitasking - the new version of Ubuntu is a revelation. It was around 17 per cent faster than its rivals in both image editing and video encoding, and slightly quicker in multitasking.

Cuddlesworth

Odd though. Everything I've seen in the last four years has said otherwise. Including Adobe themselves who now view OSX as a second Tier to windows development.

Torqay

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Including Adobe themselves who now view OSX as a second Tier to windows development.

Keep in mind that Adobe has a whole rake of axes to grind with Apple.

mathepac

Torqay wrote: »

Keep in mind that Adobe has a whole rake of axes to grind with Apple.

... to put it very mildly - it was only a flash in the pan anyway or was it down the pan? :rolleyes:

Torqay

mathepac wrote: »

... to put it very mildly - it was only a flash in the pan anyway or was it down the pan? :rolleyes:

It was Adobe who made Apple abandon their beloved Motorola chips and go hat in hand to Intel (the horrors!) when they announced to cease support for Powermacs.

lee_baby_simms

As a mac user the pros for me would be it's software and build quality but I do agree that they're over priced.

OSX is very easy to use, stable and fast. It doesn't tend to degrade over time in the same way Windows does.

I use apps like Aperture and Logic a lot which I love but i'm sure there's Windows equivalents that do exactly the same things at a similar price.

If you can buy a macbook pro in the US then you're getting one at a fair price.

Togepi

I'd be using it for college and maybe gaming, but the college work would involve using SolidWorks and PhotoShop. I'd also have a small interest in using it for video editing.

fionny

Togepi wrote: »

I'd be using it for college and maybe gaming, but the college work would involve using SolidWorks and PhotoShop. I'd also have a small interest in using it for video editing.

Forget about mac's for gaming anyway, unless you are a casual gamer.

lee_baby_simms

I remember once firing up solitaire on my old macbook and the fans went mental.

Togepi

Yeah I'd only be a casual gamer.

I'd be buying a Mac in America too, there's no chance I'd pay the Irish price for one. Even the American price is a bit much for me.

ScumLord

Build quality goes the the macbook from what I've seen of their laptops. PCs just don't go near the macs when it comes to the shell because PC manufacturers know that for the most part people won't pay that premium for a PC.

Everything else is on a par. The last CS5 version of Adobes software even has added features for rendering out effects using your graphics card which according to the manual was windows only.

Bar the case and the differences in how the software is used on a daily basis you won't notice much of a difference in how the software runs on the same piece of hardware but by going with PC you would be able to afford faster hardware which at the end of the day is all that really matters.

yoyo

ScumLord wrote: »

Build quality goes the the macbook from what I've seen of their laptops. PCs just don't go near the macs when it comes to the shell because PC manufacturers know that for the most part people won't pay that premium for a PC.

Everything else is on a par. The last CS5 version of Adobes software even has added features for rendering out effects using your graphics card which according to the manual was windows only.

Bar the case and the differences in how the software is used on a daily basis you won't notice much of a difference in how the software runs on the same piece of hardware but by going with PC you would be able to afford faster hardware which at the end of the day is all that really matters.

Its all relative really. The top of the line Dells, Asus machines have excellent build quality, you will get a decent laptop with rival build quality to a Mac for a lot less. Although won't look as "fasionable" :P .
You can forget Macs for gaming, but for casual gaming you should be ok. Keep in mind you may need to invest in a Windows license (an aditional €100~) to install Windows in bootcamp. Many game makers don't bother porting to OSX. It all depends on what you need really, most people who get Macs like them, but don't be under any illusion that they are better performance wise than other machines, virus free (on a lower scale Macs do get targeted, the "Mac Defender" scam being a recent one) or that they are completely easier to use. Perhaps in some cases, although many people have had issues with Wireless connection issues in OSX, burning issues to name a few I've seen recently. You do get the odd cheap hardware manufacturers who make devices with Windows only drivers, so look out for that as well.
Edit: Just seen you need to use SolidWorks in college. Keep in mind that is a Windows only program, and CAD programs generally need decent video card so you would need to be looking at the "top end" of the Macbooks along with buying a Windows license.

Nick

ScumLord

yoyo wrote: »

Its all relative really. The top of the line Dells, Asus machines have excellent build quality, you will get a decent laptop with rival build quality to a Mac for a lot less. Although won't look as "fasionable" :P .

Dells have sunk an awful a lot in my estimation. They used to be a rock solid Business PC maker but they've turned to cheap, underpowered consumer muck in the last decade. I don't rate them at all any more.

yoyo

ScumLord wrote: »

Dells have sunk an awful a lot in my estimation. They used to be a rock solid Business PC maker but they've turned to cheap, underpowered consumer muck in the last decade. I don't rate them at all any more.

I agree the newer Dells arnt all that great, having said that though the business oriented Latitude machines are decent. It really is a case of "you get what you pay for" when it comes to build quality, obviously a €2k MBP will be better built than a €500 Dell .

Nick

BopNiblets

OP check out ultrabooks if you're going for looks, Windows laptops and slimmer than macbooks I hear.

fionny

Samsung are making some beauts these days the 9 series is amazing looking kit although a touch pricey:

Fysh

ScumLord wrote: »

Dells have sunk an awful a lot in my estimation. They used to be a rock solid Business PC maker but they've turned to cheap, underpowered consumer muck in the last decade. I don't rate them at all any more.

They still do business PCs worth a damn, ignore the Vostro/Inspiron cack and keep your eye on the Precision, Latitude & OptiPlex lines - they'll rarely steer you wrong (though the Latitude 21xx exercise in "netbook size & spec at mid-range laptop prices" was something they deserved a damn good kicking for).

OP, if you're looking at buying in the US bear in mind that, if you need support for it, you may end up being told to go to a "local" (ie US) store. Apple aren't the greatest believer in international support provision, though it depends on your circumstances. (Also, their nonsensical attitude of insisting that on-site support is only available for desktops is the sort of thing that makes me want to go and do something unhygienic and impolite right on their stupid %^&*ing "Genius" bar, but that's another matter...)

Togepi

Thanks for all of your replies!

For the record I'd happily buy a Windows laptop, I was just wondering what was so special about Macs. And now that it's been pointed out that SolidWorks doesn't work on Macs, I'll definitely have to go for a Windows laptop. Any suggestions are welcome!

Also, which are the best makers of laptops? I never thought Samsung were any good, but they seem to be rated pretty highly in a few reviews I've read.

Torqay

Fysh wrote: »

keep your eye on the Precision, Latitude & OptiPlex lines - they'll rarely steer you wrong

Agreed, they still do quality but at a price.

In tough times manufacturers enter the race to the bottom and they're not the only ones to be blamed. If people want to buy cheap, provide for them or close your shop, simple as that.

It's a bit silly to compare niche products such as Apple computers (with a market share hardly worth mentioning) to the rest of the pack.

Togepi

(I won't be buying unti next spring, if that makes a difference. And all going well I'll be buying from the US.)

Arciphel

In the ultra book area the MacBook Air is a lot better than any equivalent Win7 product at the moment. MacBook Pro I am not so sure. For a desktop I would go Win7 all the way (64bit). It all depends what you want.

fionny

Togepi wrote: »

Thanks for all of your replies!

For the record I'd happily buy a Windows laptop, I was just wondering what was so special about Macs. And now that it's been pointed out that SolidWorks doesn't work on Macs, I'll definitely have to go for a Windows laptop. Any suggestions are welcome!

Also, which are the best makers of laptops? I never thought Samsung were any good, but they seem to be rated pretty highly in a few reviews I've read.

Samsung
Dell
Acer
Asus
Lenova
Toshiba
HP

All pretty good depending on the model

Togepi

Arciphel wrote: »

In the ultra book area the MacBook Air is a lot better than any equivalent Win7 product at the moment. MacBook Pro I am not so sure. For a desktop I would go Win7 all the way (64bit). It all depends what you want.

By the time I'm buying ultra books will probably have improved quite a bit though, surely? And I need to get Windows so Apple's out of the question now.

_AVALANCHE_

Boskowski

If you're comparing a Macbook with that laptop that has seemingly the same spec but costs half the price then what you're doing is you're comparing a Toyota Carina with a BMW.
The Carina may have the same size engine and the same break horsepower and it may have air-condition and a cd player too, same as the BMW, but yet its not quite the same car.
I'm not saying one is better than the other, well it is of course, but the question is, is that 'better' worth it to you.

I bought a pretty recent (about a year old) Macbook Pro lately - my first ever Mac - and I love the thing. Now from the fact I bought it second hand you can see I'm not too chuffed about the price tag myself. I could have got a brand new 'same spec' laptop for the same money, but after a couple of month the only regret I have is why didn't I get one earlier.
But then I'm 'only' using it for coding and for general purpose as in email, inet, office, bit of this and that. Not sure if you can find an affordable Macbook if you're into high end gaming or other specialty stuff.

I love the fact it has all the right things and it not only has them but it has them right if you know what I mean. I love all the little details, like the great keyboard and touchpad, the fantastic screen, the really long lasting battery, the single piece aluminum case, even the little magnetic power plug. I love the fact it has a UNIX underneath (OK, I concede you don't have to put Windows on your 'normal' laptop). I love the multi finger gestures and the keyboard shortcuts that are consistent across all the applications.

I'm an IT professional and generally speaking it gives me that good feeling that you get from a quality tool compared to one from the DIY store. I'm pretty sure you can find similar from other manufacturers but you would;t be far away from the Mac price tag then either.

fionny

Boskowski wrote: »

If you're comparing a Macbook with that laptop that has seemingly the same spec but costs half the price then what you're doing is you're comparing a Toyota Carina with a BMW.
The Carina may have the same size engine and the same break horsepower and it may have air-condition and a cd player too, same as the BMW, but yet its not quite the same car.
I'm not saying one is better than the other, well it is of course, but the question is, is that 'better' worth it to you.
I bought a pretty recent (about a year old) Macbook Pro lately - my first ever Mac - and I love the thing. I could have got a brand new 'same spec' laptop for the same money, but the only regret I have is why didn't I get one earlier.
But then I'm using it for coding and for general purpose as in email, inet, office. Not sure if you can find an affordable Macbook if you're into high end gaming or other specialty stuff.

<snip>

PogMoThoin

Boskowski wrote: »

If you're comparing a Macbook with that laptop that has seemingly the same spec but costs half the price then what you're doing is you're comparing a Toyota Carina with a BMW.
The Carina may have the same size engine and the same break horsepower and it may have air-condition and a cd player too, same as the BMW, but yet its not quite the same car.
I'm not saying one is better than the other, well it is of course, but the question is, is that 'better' worth it to you.
I bought a pretty recent (about a year old) Macbook Pro lately - my first ever Mac - and I love the thing. I could have got a brand new 'same spec' laptop for the same money, but the only regret I have is why didn't I get one earlier.
But then I'm using it for coding and for general purpose as in email, inet, office. Not sure if you can find an affordable Macbook if you're into high end gaming or other specialty stuff.

Hey Grandad!!! You do realise the Toyota Carina stopped being sold here when it was replaced by the Avensis in 1997? :eek:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Carina

Torqay

fionny wrote: »

Image linking 0, swear filter 1

fionny

Torqay wrote: »

Image linking 0, swear filter 1

Ya and that was the second one i tried :P I figured the message was there just the same.

yoyo

Just to remind folks not to post anything which may be considered trolling/abusive by other members. Cheers

fionny

I think what seals the deal between macs and windows is simple... the majority of companies develop primarily for windows, mac's are an after thought if that in alot of cases.

If you compare like specs with likes specs its not comparing a toyota with a bmw its actually comparing like with like... the same processors made by the same company are inside the motherboards might be different but MB's will not make or break a system (provided you go with a reasonable manufacturer) .. the hard-drives are third party etc....

the only REAL difference with macs is you have OSX (and its not strictly the only way of having this)

Some people think its the dogs and many many more people dont see anything in it.

I had a mac for a time an imac to be precise and it crashed more then the windows machine parked beside while only streaming music, instead of crashes they are call kernel panics.. and the effect is the same.

Boskowski

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Hey Grandad!!! You do realise the Toyota Carina stopped being sold here when it was replaced by the Avensis in 1997? :eek:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Carina

I do know that. I choose the Carina because for me it's always going to be the epitome of the 'rattely sh1tbox'

Boskowski

So are you genuinely saying if you had two machines of similar spec one MacBook and one run of the mill laptop you d have no reason to go for the macbook provided the price tag is unimportant?

And leave the Os out of it for the moment. You can run Macos on some non-apple laptops the same way you can run windows on a MacBook as we all know.

And for the record I don't care about pissing contests. I have both a think pad and a MacBook and they're both good machines in their own right.

PogMoThoin

Boskowski wrote: »

So are you genuinely saying if you had two machines of similar spec one MacBook and one run of the mill laptop you d have no reason to go for the macbook provided the price tag is unimportant?

And leave the Os out of it for the moment. You can run Macos on some non-apple laptops the same way you can run windows on a MacBook as we all know.

And for the record I don't care about pissing contests. I have both a think pad and a MacBook and they're both good machines in their own right.

No you can't, you can only legally run it on Apple hardware

Torqay

PogMoThoin wrote: »

No you can't, you can only legally run it on Apple hardware

Not true, PearC is selling PCs from €599 with Mac OSX preinstalled. They also offer high-end machines with 6 Core Xeon processors, way beyond anything Apple has yet to offer