Friendship with people doing drugs, is it morally acceptable?

holyhead

A close friend of mine does what is termed soft drugs. Her circle of friends also seem to do drugs. I'm in a real moral dilemna here. Not saying I'm an angel or perfect but really disturbed about and am vehemently anti drugs. This girl has been a very good friend to me and i'm in a right pickle as to what to do. i'm friendly with some of her drug taking friends on FB. If I cut them loose she'll wonder what the hell is going on. We can and do talk to each other about anything that's on our minds and when either of us needs someone on to chew the fat with we are there for each other. Can anyone advise me on what to do. I like the sinner but not the sin.

edellc

The way I always look at it is this...as long as they are not infringing it on your life then whats the problem. This is your friend this friend is entitled to live life as she sees fit and as long as she knows she cant do it in your home only in her own and on her own time I really dont see what the problem is.

If we where all to live the way others wanted us to none of us would be the least bit happy. Stick to your own morals and worry about your own life, give her an ear to listen to when you choose to but I would make it clear that you disagree with her lifestyle choice but like I said Its her choice not yours.

Sleepy

Swallow your naive objections and get used to it tbh.

Most Irish people use drugs of some form on a regular basis: caffeine, weed, alcohol etc.

Unless you're talking class A's like Cocaine or Heroin that completely take over one's life with addiction it's something you have to learn to get off your high horse about.

A0

holyhead wrote: »

A close friend of mine does what is termed soft drugs. Her circle of friends also seem to do drugs. I'm in a real moral dilemna here. Not saying I'm an angel or perfect but really disturbed about and am vehemently anti drugs. This girl has been a very good friend to me and i'm in a right pickle as to what to do. i'm friendly with some of her drug taking friends on FB. If I cut them loose she'll wonder what the hell is going on. We can and do talk to each other about anything that's on our minds and when either of us needs someone on to chew the fat with we are there for each other. Can anyone advise me on what to do. I like the sinner but not the sin.

Do what YOU think is good as you're going to get different opinions...
I am anti-drugs and have no friend taking drugs (I have very few good friends, tbh). Here's my opinion: I'd cut these friends loose and wont' be able to stay with this person as friends, it'd annoy me to know she's taking drugs... I wouldn't argue or whatever, I'd just struggle to stay in a friendly relationship with her.

username123

Sleepy wrote: »

Swallow your naive objections and get used to it tbh.

The OP is as entitled to an opinion of drug use as anyone else and to label her objections 'naive' is rude and condescending. Her opinion is just as valid as anyones.

IMO it is naive to compare caffeine and alcohol to weed as there are no criminal penalties to worry about if caught with a can of beer or a jar of coffee.

I dont know what drugs the OP is referring to but people are entitled to their opinion and if their friend doing drugs gives them a moral dilemma then they are entitled to cut that friendship loose if they wish.

desertcircus

username123 wrote: »

The OP is as entitled to an opinion of drug use as anyone else and to label her objections 'naive' is rude and condescending. Her opinion is just as valid as anyones.

IMO it is naive to compare caffeine and alcohol to weed as there are no criminal penalties to worry about if caught with a can of beer or a jar of coffee.

I dont know what drugs the OP is referring to but people are entitled to their opinion and if their friend doing drugs gives them a moral dilemma then they are entitled to cut that friendship loose if they wish.

I don't understand how the penalties for possession change the morality or immorality of a given drug.

OP: plenty of people take drugs, particularly soft drugs. As long as you're not taking them, I struggle to see what the issue is. If she's using them around you, then maybe you could talk to her and ask her not to, but I can't imagine why you'd cut off a friend because of something they were doing that wasn't impacting on anyone else.

username123

desertcircus wrote: »

I don't understand how the penalties for possession change the morality or immorality of a given drug.

Because in the case of coffee and alcohol you are not breaking the law of the land by possessing them. I would have thought that was obvious.

Princess Peach

A friend of mine does drugs a lot at the weekend, when her ex has minds the child. I have a lot of issues of this and really don't think she should, but I keep them to myself. Its none of my business and voicing my concerns will only harm our relationship, its not going to change her.

When we go out together she does drugs, she doesn't offer them to me anymore because I told her no a few times. She gets a bit weird on them but I'm used to it now and we still have fun.

You're only options are to stop being friends with her or live with it. I don't think there is a way for you to change her habits.

iguana

How would you feel if you had a vegetarian friend, who you've been very good to, who you found out was planning to cut you out because you routinely eat the flesh of animals that were murdered for your pleasure, which they're vehemently opposed to?

It's not that different from what you're contemplating.

username123

iguana wrote: »

How would you feel if you had a vegetarian friend, who you've been very good to, who you found out was planning to cut you out because you routinely eat the flesh of animals that were murdered for your pleasure, which they're vehemently opposed to?

It's not that different from what you're contemplating.

I dont see how this example compares? Eating meat is not against the law.

Im not saying that the immorality (or not) of drug use stems only from being against the law, but the fact remains that it is illegal, whereas the other examples used in this thread are not, like caffeine or alcohol or eating meat. Breaking laws, or behaving as though you are above the law is in itself an immoral way to behave within a society. Now it may be that you dont agree with some laws or some laws are wrong, but if thats the case you are entitled to lobby for change or move somewhere where your behaviour is not restricted by such laws. But just breaking them is not the answer in a civilised society, because you put yourself at risk of penalties, and possibly the people in your company or who associate with you. I wouldnt like to be in the company of a drug using friend if we got stopped by the guards because I would be afraid that I would be seen as guilty by association, or that it wouldnt be believed that I was innocent (for example if I was in a car with a drug user who had a quantity of drug in the car, I wouldnt blame the guards for assigning equal blame to me - who wouldnt?)

In order to compare apples with apples an example where the behaviour of a friends that is against the law is happening would be more relevant.

Miss Fluff

Wow, how judgemental of you. I had to read your post a couple of times to really get to grips with what your issue is. Unless you wish to cut yourself off in an enclosed order of nuns where your delicate sensibilities will never be offended, I suggest that you exercise a bit of tolerance tbh. I am guessing you are very very young and have had next to no life experience? You're going to meet a lot of people through life, some whose lifestyle choices you might agree with and others you're not so keen on. To cut off a good friend because they smoke a bit of blow beggars belief. Unless this group of friends has put you under enormous pressure to partake or their liking for the odd toke negatively impacts on your life directly then I really don't know what your issue is really....

holyhead

Thank you for all the replies. Yeah I definitely would not condone drug taking. However I accept reluctantly that my friend takes what she calls soft drugs ie joints/weed. Its kinda weird for lc There are other aspects to how she lives her life that I would not agree with mainly because it is damaging her health and it is showing externally. On the one hand I must respect someone's wishes to live life as they see fit. On the other hand it is tough seeing someone you care about leading a destructive lifestyle. She's a great friend though and on balance the friendship wins out unless something drastic happens.

holyhead

Miss Fluff wrote: »

Wow, how judgemental of you. I had to read your post a couple of times to really get to grips with what your issue is. Unless you wish to cut yourself off in an enclosed order of nuns where your delicate sensibilities will never be offended, I suggest that you exercise a bit of tolerance tbh. I am guessing you are very very young and have had next to no life experience? You're going to meet a lot of people through life, some whose lifestyle choices you might agree with and others you're not so keen on. To cut off a good friend because they smoke a bit of blow beggars belief. Unless this group of friends has put you under enormous pressure to partake or their liking for the odd toke negatively impacts on your life directly then I really don't know what your issue is really....

Miss Fluff I have read your reply several times. I'm young and but not very . No I'm not sheltered but I do have high standards that I expect of myself and those with whom I am friends. They say the company you keep speaks volumes. I dont recall saying I was actually going to cut myself off from my friend merely that I found myself in what I regard as a moral dilemna. The fact is that taking drugs is illegal never mind the harm the person is doing to themselves. It is also something I could never condone. Also realise that supplier's of drugs account for a vast amount of killing that goes on in our lovely island. If you buy drugs you keep these nasty people in business and give those who come after them an illegal means of living off the misery of others. The fact that it is an adult right to take drugs does not shut me out from caring and worrying about the harm they are doing to my friend. It may discomfort you to know that some people have values. Yes we cant impose our values on someone else but we would like to think our friends share a similar set of values and beliefs. We can like the sinner but not the sin. You will be relief to know Miss Fluff I too sin and struggle with my various failings. However as you have I also the right to feel discomfort at certain things I may witness or be aware of.

I am a friend

holyhead wrote: »

Miss Fluff I have read your reply several times. I'm young and but not very . No I'm not sheltered but I do have high standards that I expect of myself and those with whom I am friends. They say the company you keep speaks volumes. I dont recall saying I was actually going to cut myself off from my friend merely that I found myself in what I regard as a moral dilemna. The fact is that taking drugs is illegal never mind the harm the person is doing to themselves. It is also something I could never condone. Also realise that supplier's of drugs account for a vast amount of killing that goes on in our lovely island. If you buy drugs you keep these nasty people in business and give those who come after them an illegal means of living off the misery of others. The fact that it is an adult right to take drugs does not shut me out from caring and worrying about the harm they are doing to my friend. It may discomfort you to know that some people have values. Yes we cant impose our values on someone else but we would like to think our friends share a similar set of values and beliefs. We can like the sinner but not the sin. You will be relief to know Miss Fluff I too sin and struggle with my various failings. However as you have I also the right to feel discomfort at certain things I may witness or be aware of.

Good post and well said.

Drugs ruin lives and IMHO people who take drugs have a certain 'want' in them whereby they are unwilling or unable to deal with lives as it comes. The needs for regular escapism makes me think that they are weak and I would not willingly surround myself with people who, on a given night out, are altering their moods with drugs.

OP you will find that people, who are fond of drugs will jump down your throat here but you are entitled, as you know, not to hang round with druggies if you so wish..

Andy-Pandy

I am a friend wrote: »

people who take drugs have a certain 'want' in them .

Yes, they want to have a good time.

username123

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

Yes, they want to have a good time.

At the expense of others. No one takes drugs in an isolated egg. It impacts on the person, the family of the person, the friends, society at large, and the chain back through the supplier to the manufacturer.

Wow, how judgemental of you. I had to read your post a couple of times to really get to grips with what your issue is. Unless you wish to cut yourself off in an enclosed order of nuns where your delicate sensibilities will never be offended, I suggest that you exercise a bit of tolerance tbh. I am guessing you are very very young and have had next to no life experience? You're going to meet a lot of people through life, some whose lifestyle choices you might agree with and others you're not so keen on. To cut off a good friend because they smoke a bit of blow beggars belief. Unless this group of friends has put you under enormous pressure to partake or their liking for the odd toke negatively impacts on your life directly then I really don't know what your issue is really....

This is massively condescending, the OPs age is irrelevant, some people disagree with drug use - they are entitled to do so. The OP is correct to say that the friends you keep speak volumes. Id rather not associate myself with drug users either and Im well along in years.

Andy-Pandy

Ill be honest with you, i take drugs, i have for years and it has no impact on anyone. I am responsible adult, as are my friends, we all work or are in college, and all contribute to society in a positive way. I know doctors, lawyers, people that own company's with 100+ employees that do drugs. Not all , in fact id day the vast majority, of drug users let there drug taking go beyond anything but recreational use. If they ever have felt that it was getting out of control they stop, i know more people with drink problems than drug problems.

username123

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

Ill be honest with you, i take drugs, i have for years and it has no impact on anyone.

Unless you are an orphan locked in a box away from the world I can guarantee you that you drug taking is affecting someone.

And even if you are an orphan locked in a box, the act of buying is having an impact, creating a market and causing a difference to someones life back along the chain of supply. Its naive to think otherwise.

Just as a hypothetical, if you were caught in possession and charged, surely your mum or some relation would be affected by a sense of worry even?

iguana

I am a friend wrote: »

Drugs ruin lives and IMHO people who take drugs have a certain 'want' in them whereby they are unwilling or unable to deal with lives as it comes.

Then you opinion is clearly not one of much experience. Drugs do not ruin lives, people who use drugs to avoid dealing with their problems may have their lives ruined by them but an awful lot more people in that type of scenario have their lives ruined by one of the most addictive and dangerous substances on earth, one that kills more people every year than any one form of cancer. Alcohol. Alcohol is a much worse drug than most illegal narcotics yet most people accept that while alcohol can be incredibly harmful for most people it's just a recreational substance. The same is true for most other drugs, except that most drugs are no where near as addictive or destructive.

I've been teetotal for the last few years and even before that I drank very rarely, maybe a few small glasses of wine a year. I'm actually a lot more aware of what drugs cause what problems socially because I'm usually watching what's going on with completely sober eyes and for the most part I'd rather spend a night with people who have taken drugs, from grass to MDMA, than I would with people who are too drunk as they are far more boring and repetitive and certainly way more prone to aggression.

username123 wrote:

Breaking laws, or behaving as though you are above the law is in itself an immoral way to behave within a society. Now it may be that you dont agree with some laws or some laws are wrong, but if thats the case you are entitled to lobby for change or move somewhere where your behaviour is not restricted by such laws. But just breaking them is not the answer in a civilised society, because you put yourself at risk of penalties, and possibly the people in your company or who associate with you.

That's just actually ridiculous. It's not that long since homosexual acts were illegal. It took hundreds and hundreds of years to change such laws. Are you genuinely suggesting that many hundreds of thousands of people had no right to romantic and sexual love because it was against the law? It certainly wasn't safe to campaign against those laws. You either broke them or you lived without basic human needs.

Or what about most of Europe in the late 30s and early 40s. Think about all of those 'lawbreakers' who smuggled Jews to safety. Personally I have always thought that the rescue of the Danish Jews in 1943 is just about the most amazing example of humanity working en masse as a force for good. But of course all of the participants in that rescue were in fact breaking the law.

Now I'm not comparing drug use to rescuing people from certain death but you are when you make such blanket statements. Most people who take drugs hurt nobody and just want to enjoy a particular experience.

username123 wrote:

I wouldnt like to be in the company of a drug using friend if we got stopped by the guards because I would be afraid that I would be seen as guilty by association, or that it wouldnt be believed that I was innocent (for example if I was in a car with a drug user who had a quantity of drug in the car, I wouldnt blame the guards for assigning equal blame to me - who wouldnt?)

Actually the law itself wouldn't. If you aren't in possession of a drug you can't be charged with being in possession of it. Just being in the company of someone who is has drugs can not get you in trouble and suggesting otherwise is hysterical.

Andy-Pandy

username123 wrote: »

Just as a hypothetical, if you were caught in possession and charged, surely your mum or some relation would be affected by a sense of worry even?

The amounts i would have on me, and the fact that i have never had any run in with the law would probably mean i would get a warning. Although there is a risk involved. I have even talked to guards about this before and tbh they dont care, why would they? As for the question about my Mum or relations reaction if i was caught, I simply just wouldn't tell them, its the risk i take, and I will take responsibility if it ever happens.

username123

iguana wrote: »

It's not that long since homosexual acts were illegal. It took hundreds and hundreds of years to change such laws. Are you genuinely suggesting that many hundreds of thousands of people had no right to romantic and sexual love because it was against the law? It certainly wasn't safe to campaign against those laws. You either broke them or you lived without basic human needs.

Or what about most of Europe in the late 30s and early 40s. Think about all of those 'lawbreakers' who smuggled Jews to safety. Personally I have always thought that the rescue of the Danish Jews in 1943 is just about the most amazing example of humanity working en masse as a force for good. But of course all of the participants in that rescue were in fact breaking the law.

Now I'm not comparing drug use to rescuing people from certain death but you are when you make such blanket statements. Most people who take drugs hurt nobody and just want to enjoy a particular experience.

I dont disagree with this - I have already stated that sometimes laws are wrong But if you break a law, and get caught and have to face consequences, you are going to negatively affect people in your life like your mammy, your siblings, friends etc... So is it morally right to risk hurting/upsetting/worrying these people? Perhaps a higher morality is served - such as the case of homosexuality, but the fact remains, there is an immorality inherent in breaking laws - you never behave in isolation, even if you have no family, a trial costs taxpayers money some of whom will feel its wrong that their taxes go on paying for your trial etc...

iguana wrote: »

Actually the law itself wouldn't. If you aren't in possession of a drug you can't be charged with being in possession of it. Just being in the company of someone who is has drugs can not get you in trouble and suggesting otherwise is hysterical.

Rubbish. No possible way of proving who owns the drugs when there are 3 people in a car, drugs in the boot and all 3 saying they dont own them.

iguana

username123 wrote: »

I dont disagree with this - I have already stated that sometimes laws are wrong But if you break a law, and get caught and have to face consequences, you are going to negatively affect people in your life like your mammy, your siblings, friends etc... So is it morally right to risk hurting/upsetting/worrying these people? Perhaps a higher morality is served - such as the case of homosexuality, but the fact remains, there is an immorality inherent in breaking laws - you never behave in isolation, even if you have no family, a trial costs taxpayers money some of whom will feel its wrong that their taxes go on paying for your trial etc...

You said if laws are wrong you campaign against them rather than take it upon yourself to break them. Immorality can also be inherent in obeying laws and regularly is.

username123 wrote: »

Rubbish. No possible way of proving who owns the drugs when there are 3 people in a car, drugs in the boot and all 3 saying they dont own them.

In that situation the law is clear. The person who owns the car is the person in possession. Now if the car was mine and a friend who has some drugs hid some in my boot for the duration of a journey we were taking I would be utterly furious with them. They can take their own risks, that's none of my business but if they decide to avoid that risk by risking me instead that is my business and I wouldn't be sure our friendship would survive it. But if they carry drugs on their own person in my presence there is no legal risk to me whatsoever and therefore not something I have any right to involve myself in.

username123

iguana wrote: »

You said if laws are wrong you campaign against them rather than take it upon yourself to break them.

Oh yeah, I see what you mean, when I said that just breaking them is not the answer I meant that just breaking them is not the answer to getting them changed if you disagree with them and believe they are wrong.

iguana wrote: »

They can take their own risks, that's none of my business but if they decide to avoid that risk by risking me instead that is my business and I wouldn't be sure our friendship would survive it.

Well thats exactly the point I am making, Id be furious too and I dont think a friendship would survive it either.

iguana wrote: »

But if they carry drugs on their own person in my presence there is no legal risk to me whatsoever and therefore not something I have any right to involve myself in.

I agree on the legal risk, but I have every right to not want to be involved, friendship or otherwise with such a person.

username123

iguana wrote: »

Immorality can also be inherent in obeying laws and regularly is.

Just saw this edit, yes you are right, but I personally dont think that not drug using when drug using is illegal is a case of this.

woodchuck

holyhead wrote: »

We can and do talk to each other about anything that's on our minds and when either of us needs someone on to chew the fat with we are there for each other. Can anyone advise me on what to do. I like the sinner but not the sin.

I think that if she’s is such a good friend to you then you should overlook this one vice of hers. Assuming it doesn’t impact on you directly of course.

I wouldn’t address the issue of her drug taking with her (unless you’re genuinely worried that it’s getting out of hand), but if it comes up in conversation just be honest about how you feel without being judgemental or preachy.

i'm friendly with some of her drug taking friends on FB. If I cut them loose she'll wonder what the hell is going on.

I wouldn’t overthink the facebook issue too much. If you’re not good friends with her friends then nobody should care if you ‘unfriend’ them.

iguana

username123 wrote: »

Just saw this edit, yes you are right, but I personally dont think that not drug using when drug using is illegal is a case of this.

No and I'm not implying it is. But using the law, or the breaking of a law, as a yardstick of what is and isn't moral is pointless. If someone else's choices have no negative impact on you it's not really your business.

LegacyUser

username123 wrote: »

In order to compare apples with apples an example where the behaviour of a friends that is against the law is happening would be more relevant.

OK I am friends with plenty of people who download films, tv shows and music illegally from the internet. I dislike this as [a] it's against the law and I work in television so feel it effects me. However I can't tell my friends how to conduct themselves, all I can ask is that they not rub this action in my face. If the OP really has such a moral issues with her friends drug use then they'd report them from committing a crime.

username123

iguana wrote: »

No and I'm not implying it is. But using the law, or the breaking of a law, as a yardstick of what is and isn't moral is pointless. If someone else's choices have no negative impact on you it's not really your business.

But law is supposedly a reflection of the morality of a society. We have laws because as a society we believe that someone should be punished for doing 'wrong'.

If we are just going to disregard law for private morality then that leaves us with a society prone to anarchy.

And in this particular instance I believe that someone elses choices can have a negative impact on me - like the example of the drugs in the boot of the car. More likely the persons drug use will just annoy me because they are engaging in an activity that I dont like. But it certainly has a negative impact if I dont like drug use.

invinciblePRSTV

Cop yourself on OP and stop moralising about what your friends get up to. Ignore also the stupid hypotheticals and silly 'what ifs?' presented by those armchair psychologists who haven't a NOTION about what they're on about - everyone thinks they're an expert because they read something in a newspaper.

Now focus. Growing and smoking cannabis is ubiquitous across the world, many jurisdictions have moved away from penalising cannabis possession and the side effects are negligible - if your friends are young teenagers or prone to mental illness then worry, if not then its all good.

Above all else inform yourself, spend time with these people when they are on soft drugs and realise that beyond spending a few hours in a dazed stoned state, the next day they're back to their ownselves.

iguana

username123 wrote: »

But law is supposedly a reflection of the morality of a society. We have laws because as a society we believe that someone should be punished for doing 'wrong'.

If we are just going to disregard law for private morality then that leaves us with a society prone to anarchy.

Well that's highly naive. Most laws are in place because they benefit the existing elite. Anarchy is a complex political system of participatory democracy, it's the only true democracy. Unlike the representative democratic society that we currently live in.

username123 wrote: »

And in this particular instance I believe that someone elses choices can have a negative impact on me - like the example of the drugs in the boot of the car. More likely the persons drug use will just annoy me because they are engaging in an activity that I dont like. But it certainly has a negative impact if I dont like drug use.

You are muddling up two completely different things. Someone planting drugs on you is not even remotely the same thing as someone taking drugs themselves.

holyhead

woodchuck wrote: »

holyhead wrote: »

We can and do talk to each other about anything that's on our minds and when either of us needs someone on to chew the fat with we are there for each other. Can anyone advise me on what to do. I like the sinner but not the sin.

I think that if she’s is such a good friend to you then you should overlook this one vice of hers. Assuming it doesn’t impact on you directly of course.

I wouldn’t address the issue of her drug taking with her (unless you’re genuinely worried that it’s getting out of hand), but if it comes up in conversation just be honest about how you feel without being judgemental or preachy.

[IiQUOTE]i'm friendly with some of her drug taking friends on FB. If I cut them loose she'll wonder what the hell is going on.

I wouldn’t ovi ank the facebook issue too much. If you’re not good frieds with her friends then nobody should care if you ‘unfriend’ them.[/Quote]
I agree with your advice except the unfriending on Fb. Only raises dust and for what gain. She has an unhealthy appetite for alcohol but I accept this like I must accept her use of soft drugs. At the rnf of the day she is a close friend and I guess this is what troubles me most about her usr of soft drugs. We were socialising the other night and I was the only one out of four people not taking drugs. Not looking gor a halo but it brought it home to me the circles in which she mixes. At the enf

username123

iguana wrote: »

Well that's highly naive. Most laws are in place because they benefit the existing elite. Anarchy is a complex political system of participatory democracy, it's the only true democracy. Unlike the representative democratic society that we currently live in.

Whats naive about it? If you truly believe that laws are in place to benefit an existing elite then in my view thats a paranoid stance to take.

I meant anarchy in the sense lawlessness within a society - I personally wouldnt like to live in a society like that.

iguana wrote: »

You are muddling up two completely different things. Someone planting drugs on you is not even remotely the same thing as someone taking drugs themselves.

Im not muddling up anything.

This has gone too far off topic, if the OP wishes to distance herself from friends who use drugs she is entitled to do so.

I am a friend

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

Yes, they want to have a good time.

Exactly and don't have the skills / ability to do it without use of an artificial substance.

woodchuck

holyhead wrote: »

I agree with your advice except the unfriending on Fb. Only raises dust and for what gain. She has an unhealthy appetite for alcohol but I accept this like I must accept her use of soft drugs. At the rnf of the day she is a close friend and I guess this is what troubles me most about her usr of soft drugs. We were socialising the other night and I was the only one out of four people not taking drugs. Not looking gor a halo but it brought it home to me the circles in which she mixes. At the enf

If you think the facebook thing is going to cause a serious issue then there’s also no harm in keeping them as friends. If any of their posts etc bother you, you can change your privacy settings and nobody needs to know.

Maybe just don’t head out them if you know they’re going to be doing drugs? I don’t mean to get caught up comparing to other substances, but I’m not a big drinker anymore and have friends who still like to go out on the p*ss. If I know that’s the sole ‘activity’ for the night, I just don’t go very often anymore. I try to make more effort organising other things like going for food, cinema etc instead where drinking isn’t really going to be a factor. Maybe you could do the same?

curlzy

Hey OP

I honestly think you should discuss this with your friends. Just as you have a right to not be friends with "druggies", they have the right not be friends with sanctimonious, naive, holier-than-thous. Not saying you are that but your post certainly makes it sound that way. If you were my friend and you said any of what's in your opening post to me, I'd be cutting you out of my life for being so judgemental.

Best of luck.

Beruthiel

The history of grass and how the Americans got the rest of the world to make it an illegal substance.
Well worth a watch if you don't know how they managed that one. And here we are, over 100 years later and still stuck with it.

Up until the early 20th century, it was freely available to everyone on the planet.
But those pesky Mexicans changed all that.

Alcohol and Grass.
Of those two drugs, alcohol is by far the most dangerous. To your body, to your relationships with others and to society in general.
That is my opinion and I firmly believe it.

OP
Take some time and do some research about it before judging your friend.

OS119

holyhead wrote: »

...Not looking gor a halo but it brought it home to me the circles in which she mixes...

OP, having read the thread i think you've got two different issues mixed up.

firstly theres the pragmatic question of how your friend acts around you - and not around you - who they mix with and what affect your friends behaviour may have on you, and secondly a moral issue about 'should i associate with someone who breaks the law?'.

the first is a matter of taste - does your friend act in a way that you find upsetting or embarrassing, do you actually dislike the other people she's friends with, and do you actually think that if she got arrested for smoking weed/pot/whatever the Gardai would be knocking at your door because you know her?

the second can also be split into two parts - firstly the 'law' issue. well, until recently divorce was illegal in Ireland - would you have not been friends with someone who was divorced while that law was in place? or if they regularly drove at 5kph above the speed limit on motorways, or had used condoms in the 1980's (because they were illegal if you weren't married), or weren't that fastidious about ensuring that anyone who did any building work for her paid VAT in full? there's then - imv - a much more persuasive argument: that by buying soft drugs your friend puts money in the hands of serious, organised crime. these are the same people who bring guns into the country, traffic prostitutes, run protection rackets and bring in and sell the hardest, most destructive drugs as well as 'fake' achohol that could make you blind with one bottle.

personally, i'm not going to be guided by other peoples morality - after all, in several US states it would be illegal for my wife to give me a blow-job and in Germany i couldn't mow my lawn on a sunday (or some such ridiculous regulation) - but i think for myself about the actions that i, and those around me, have on my future. every additional € in the hands of organised crime means they can corrupt more Gardai and customs officers, employ more thugs to intimidate businesses into laundering their money, sell drugs cheaper to attract more users and make even more money, and buy more effective, more destructive weapons to kill off their rivals and create 'no-go' areas for the state.

me, i'd explain that to your friend - if she's not interested, then i'd not want her as my friend.

holyhead

Beruthiel and Curlzy I address this reply to yer goodselves. I don't drink, smoke or take drugs. I do not wish to be endowed with a halo. I simply am anti drugs. From any which angle I look at it its bad. I make no apologies for and stand by my original post. Yes I have strong opinions and also a value and belief system by which I try to live life. Sometimes I succeed other times I fail. One of those friends of my friend was out with us the last night. I never met her before but to say she cut a sorry figure would be an understatememt. I would hate for my friend to end up in that state. It is only human to care about your friends but also understandable to have conflicting emotions as to their activities. We are all entitled to do what we want but when you know what their doing has a devastating impact then it is understandable to feel torn between friendship and morals. I guess its not bad advice to take whats good out of a situation and leave well alone regarding the unsavoury aspects. But if you dont condemn do you condone.

Beruthiel

holyhead wrote: »

Yes I have strong opinions and also a value and belief system by which I try to live life.

Can I ask, do you have the same opinion towards your friends who drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes?
To be consistent, you would have to view all those three drugs in the same light.
Grass being the least dangerous of the three.

holyhead

OS119 wrote: »

OP, having read the thread i think you've got two different issues mixed up.

firstly theres the pragmatic question of how your friend acts around you - and not around you - who they mix with and what affect your friends behaviour may have on you, and secondly a moral issue about 'should i associate with someone who breaks the law?'.

the first is a matter of taste - does your friend act in a way that you find upsetting or embarrassing, do you actually dislike the other people she's friends with, and do you actually think that if she got arrested for smoking weed/pot/whatever the Gardai would be knocking at your door because you know her?

the second can also be split into two parts - firstly the 'law' issue. well, until recently divorce was illegal in Ireland - would you have not been friends with someone who was divorced while that law was in place? or if they regularly drove at 5kph above the speed limit on motorways, or had used condoms in the 1980's (because they were illegal if you weren't married), or weren't that fastidious about ensuring that anyone who did any building work for her paid VAT in full? there's then - imv - a much more persuasive argument: that by buying soft drugs your friend puts money in the hands of serious, organised crime. these are the same people who bring guns into the country, traffic prostitutes, run protection rackets and bring in and sell the hardest, most destructive drugs as well as 'fake' achohol that could make you blind with one bottle.

personally, i'm not going to be guided by other peoples morality - after all, in several US states it would be illegal for my wife to give me a blow-job and in Germany i couldn't mow my lawn on a sunday (or some such ridiculous regulation) - but i think for myself about the actions that i, and those around me, have on my future. every additional € in the hands of organised crime means they can corrupt more Gardai and customs officers, employ more thugs to intimidate businesses into laundering their money, sell drugs cheaper to attract more users and make even more money, and buy more effective, more destructive weapons to kill off their rivals and create 'no-go' areas for the state.

me, i'd explain that to your friend - if she's not interested, then i'd not want her as my friend.

She doesn't embarass me at all. She's a lovely person with a big heart. The last time we met up was the first time her use of drugs and those in her circle of friends really came home to me after knowing her for two years. I get what you are saying about the wider social impact of drug taking but I'm pretty confident any moral arguement about social impact would go in one ear and out the other.
I appreciate in having a strong opinion on this matter that I leave myself open to comments like im sanctomonious, holier than thou. Truly i'm not bothered I stand by my convictions. I will respect people's views but hope people have enough about them not to ridicule an opposing view.

holyhead

Beruthiel wrote: »

Can I ask, do you have the same opinion towards your friends who drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes?
To be consistent, you would have to view all those three drugs in the same light.
Grass being the least dangerous of the three.

Beruthiel the simple answer is no because the other two are not illegal either in supply or consumption save the age issue and the suppliers of same tend not to be gun down in cold blood.
For the record I have no problem with alcohol provided it is consumed in moderation something which seems a major problem in this country. I hate smoking with a passion. Disgusting habit. :mad:

Beruthiel

holyhead wrote: »

Beruthiel the simple answer is no because the other two are not illegal

So you are not upset that she is smoking grass then, but rather that she is breaking a farce of a law?

ebixa82

You need to realise that there is nothing wrong with your friend smoking the odd joint. She is doing nobody any harm.

For you to judge them show's a serious lack of judgement on your part.

You really need to try and overcome this. The problem here is you and your narrow minded opinions.

Live a little and relax.

holyhead

ebixa82 wrote: »

You need to realise that there is nothing wrong with your friend smoking the odd joint. She is doing nobody any harm.

For you to judge them show's a serious lack of judgement on your part.

You really need to try and overcome this. The problem here is you and your narrow minded opinions.

Live a little and relax.

That is clearly wrong. You don't know me and are in no position to deem me narrow minded. If you can't respect the opinions of others then say more about yourself than me. The world is full of all shades of opinion and none more right than another. If nobody took drugs there would be no drug dealers. If there was no drug dealers then there would virtually no gangland killings and still you say that doing drugs is harming no one. Drug supply and consumption is illegal. Simple.
Beruthiel if you read some of my earlier posts you will understand it is not just the illegality of drug taking that bothers me.

holyhead

ebixa82 wrote: »

You need to realise that there is nothing wrong with your friend smoking the odd joint. She is doing nobody any harm.

For you to judge them show's a serious lack of judgement on your part.

You really need to try and overcome this. The problem here is you and your narrow minded opinions.

Live a little and relax.

Did the postman drop the joint off at her house with the post. I doubt it . Drugs are supplied by drug dealers. Drug dealers have this nasty habit of getting gunned down not because of any moral repulsion but because of the cash involved. If there was no demand for drugs then drug dealers would be irrelevant. If you saw the condition of her friend then you would struggle to say that joints are harmless. It was scary.
I genuinely don't think I am narrow minded and not sure you are in a position to say that I am. I respect your right to reply as you have so please respect my right to post. Thank you.

WhyGoBald

ebixa82 wrote: »

You need to realise that there is nothing wrong with your friend smoking the odd joint. She is doing nobody any harm.

For you to judge them show's a serious lack of judgement on your part.

You really need to try and overcome this. The problem here is you and your narrow minded opinions.

Live a little and relax.

Wow. Most of the advice here has been to berate the OP for his/her stance, and s/he is supposed to be the sanctimonious one!

OP, if you and your friend are as close as you say, I would talk to her. I doubt it will offend her to know that you have a problem with her drug taking since she probably has an idea of your stance. You can probably stipulate that you don't want to have anything to do with the business and that you'd rather not hear about it either. Once you are both on the same page about it, I don't see any ethical issue with continuing your friendship.

Beruthiel

holyhead wrote: »

Beruthiel if you read some of my earlier posts you will understand it is not just the illegality of drug taking that bothers me.

I understand that.
But, do you then get my point that if you have a problem with her smoking grass, to the extent that you feel you must say something, then you must also say something to the people you know who drink or smoke?
You cannot pick and chose.

holyhead

WhyGoBald wrote: »

Wow. Most of the advice here has been to berate the OP for his/her stance, and s/he is supposed to be the sanctimonious one!

OP, if you and your friend are as close as you say, I would talk to her. I doubt it will offend her to know that you have a problem with her drug taking since she probably has an idea of your stance. You can probably stipulate that you don't want to have anything to do with the business and that you'd rather not hear about it either. Once you are both on the same page about it, I don't see any ethical issue with continuing your friendship.

We had many ding dongs over the extent of her drinking so I certainly wouldn't see much point in giving her grief over her use of soft drugs as she calls them. I accept the issue is on my side as she has always shown me nothing but respect, kindness and thoughfulness. I is a he btw

holyhead

Beruthiel wrote: »

I understand that.
But, do you then get my point that if you have a problem with her smoking grass, to the extent that you feel you must say something, then you must also say something to the people you know who drink or smoke?
You cannot pick and chose.

I really don't see the point in saying anything to her Beruthiel. She's very head strong but at the end of the day she is there for me if I have something on my mind which makes her a most valuable friend. Not quite sure I get your arguement vis a vis smoking and drinking. But I respect your position on this.

holyhead

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

It is not just what she calls them, it's what they are called. You're exaggerating the issue by phrasing things in this way.

How so Doc. Its just that I don't believe in the concept of soft drugs. Drugs are drugs and are illegal both in supply and consumption. I'm only paraphrasing her.

holyhead

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

OP, I've noticed you talk about sinners and sinning a lot in your posts, is your stance on this coming from a religious point of view?
If so, how would you feel if one of your friends felt this way about you because of your religious beliefs? Now before anyone says this is a daft comparison, one of your arguments against drug use was the crimes comminted by drug dealers. What about religiously motivated suicide bombings? The obvious crimes commited by the Catholic Church? Again this is all assuming you've used these terms because you're actually religious and not just because it's a common thing to say.

Its funny you should bring up the religious aspect. Not religious tbh just used the sin/sinner analogy for want of a better way of putting it. Look at the end of the day when you boil it down your left with a close friend of mine who is making a lifestyle choice with which I am uncomfortable. It makes neither of us bad people.