Love/soul mates and same sex marriages

angeleyes

I seem to be on a roll tonight.

I have a problem getting my head around this issue/question. It seems that the Catholic Church in its infinite wisdom is against homosexuality.... but my question is this and I take this from a hymn "God is love and those who live in God live in love"

There is nothing more special in this world that that of being loved or in love. Its said that there is a lock for every key and our soul mate is out there - we just have to find them. But for someone who is born gay why should they be deprived of the gift of a loving relationship just cos the CC say so. No one should be denied the love of another living being despite their sexuality. None of us asked to be born male or female or even gay or straight. Why would God create a life and then say that loving someone is wrong.

Explanations please or do I have a simplistic view of things?

Zombrex

I'm an atheist, and not a fan of the CC position on pretty much anything, but in the interests of fairness it should be pointed out that the Christianity view on homosexuality is, most commonly, that the physical act of homosexual sex is a sin. A man loving another man isn't. This is based around the notion that sexual intercourse is a gift from God that only has a proper place in a marriage between a man and a woman (good luck getting an actually reason for this other than "God says so").

There was a discussion on this forum a while back why homosexual sex seems to be presented in the Bible purely in terms of lust and why there seems to be no concept of a romantic loving homosexual relationship. The question of why God doesn't seem to view sex inside these relationships as correct was also raised. Various answers were given, though to be honest the idea of a romantic loving homosexual relationship seemed pretty alien to a lot of the Christians. Lust again and again came up as a chief motivator. As an atheist the answer seems pretty clear to me, the people who wrote the Bible didn't consider romantic loving homosexual relationships as a real think any more than a lot of modern Christians do.

My answer. Don't be a Christian if the Christian god is something you think doesn't make sense. :P

Benny_Cake

Zombrex summed it up pretty well, the Catholic church would view homosexual sexual acts as a sin, not that being homosexual itself is a sin. Now I don't agree with that position in all cases as I think context is everything, and there is a huge difference between sex between 2 loving adults and promiscuity. To me the Bible was inspired by God, but I think that Paul would have found it as easy to imagine an iPad or TV as he would a committed same-sex relationships - they just didn't exist in his world!

massey168

Benny_Cake wrote: »

I think that Paul would have found it as easy to imagine an iPad or TV as he would a committed same-sex relationships - they just didn't exist in his world!

Homosexuality and committed same-sex sexual relationships have been around since the dawn of time, and the level of acceptability has always varied from culture to culture. I can assure you, such issues were not invented with the TV or the iPad. Perhaps you need to get with it

Manach

These relationships were present in classical times, on the most part being disapproved of - except in states like Thebes or Athens where in the later city it would not have have lifelong - more part of a client relationship in sections of the ruling classes.

massey168

angeleyes wrote: »

I seem to be on a roll tonight.

I have a problem getting my head around this issue/question. It seems that the Catholic Church in its infinite wisdom is against homosexuality..... But for someone who is born gay why should they be deprived of the gift of a loving relationship just cos the CC say so.

Explanations please or do I have a simplistic view of things?

I don't think its just the CC that do not endorse homosexual acts, many other Christian denominations do not either.

The bible talks a lot about sex. Have any of you bible experts come accross quotes in the bible that endorse homosexual acts ?

Festus

The Catholic Church is not alone it its position regarding homosexual behaviour so why single her out?

Have you presented your suggestions to Orthodox Jews or Muslims? There are a number of them living in this state too.

No doubt there are other Christians who take the same view who also live in this state. Som even post on boards!

Is there a reason why you think the Catholic Church should be a target for this form of bigotry?

Sonics2k

I would assume Festus, it is because the Catholic Church and Christianity are the dominant religions of the country and are what people are exposed to more often.

Plus, this is the Christianity forum after all.

Onesimus

I'm an atheist, and not a fan of the CC position on pretty much anything, but in the interests of fairness it should be pointed out that the Christianity view on homosexuality is, most commonly, that the physical act of homosexual sex is a sin. A man loving another man isn't. This is based around the notion that sexual intercourse is a gift from God that only has a proper place in a marriage between a man and a woman (good luck getting an actually reason for this other than "God says so").

Gen. 2:18 – throughout the creation story, God says “it is good” seven times. But when God pointed out that man was alone, God says “it is not good.” God then created woman. Man and woman therefore belong together by God’s design, according to His natural and supernatural law.

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/homosexuality.html

Thats interesting. Dont you think that if God wanted to create another companion for a man he would have done so and created another man? Why would he have created a woman for another man?

I think we can see in the world today that Mans body does not make sense on its own. Nor does a womans body. But when brought together they make total sense.

What doesnt make sense ( even scientifically ) is the penis of one man going up the rectum of another man. and we are given no other reason for that other than ''We humans say so''.

Sonics2k

Onesimus wrote: »

Thats interesting. Dont you think that if God wanted to create another companion for a man he would have done so and created another man? Why would he have created a woman for another man?

I think we can see in the world today that Mans body does not make sense on its own. Nor does a womans body. But when brought together they make total sense.

What doesnt make sense ( even scientifically ) is the penis of one man going up the rectum of another man. and we are given no other reason for that other than ''We humans say so''.

I like that Onesimus assumes all gay men have anal sex, and no straight people do.

Also, if God is an ultimate creator, who cannot make a mistake, then why would he even have made it possible for some 450 species to be homosexual.

Or did God actually make Gay people, and in 'His' infinite wisdom, simply not care because such things would be beneath 'Him'?

Benny_Cake

Onesimus wrote: »

What doesnt make sense ( even scientifically ) is the penis of one man going up the rectum of another man. and we are given no other reason for that other than ''We humans say so''.

What doesn't make sense to me is why so many people are so caught up in what other adults get up to in the privacy of their own beds - whether you approve of it or not.

Manach

Perhaps because of the lobbying to have it accepted as a societal norm on the same level as traditional institutions as marriage - with legal penalties falling on those private parties who fail to conform.

tommy2bad

Onesimus wrote: »

Thats interesting. Dont you think that if God wanted to create another companion for a man he would have done so and created another man? Why would he have created a woman for another man?

I think we can see in the world today that Mans body does not make sense on its own. Nor does a womans body. But when brought together they make total sense.

What doesnt make sense ( even scientifically ) is the penis of one man going up the rectum of another man. and we are given no other reason for that other than ''We humans say so''.

Do you believe that genesis is an actual account of how humans were created?
Might it not be an account of something else and an account thats couched in language thats culturally and symbolic specific?
As to how much sense any penis going anywhere other than the vagina of a fertile female, don't knock it till you've tried it. God might have included the possibility of multiple uses for various organs, tongue to talk as well as taste for example.
I wonder if He knew how much bother this sex thing would be when He came up with the idea and if He would have stuck with asexual reproduction if He had.

tommy2bad

Manach wrote: »

Perhaps because of the lobbying to have it accepted as a societal norm on the same level as traditional institutions as marriage - with legal penalties falling on those private parties who fail to conform.

What?? am I missing something?
Want to explain that somewhat confused post, what penalties? what traditional institutions? whats conforming got to do with it?

Manach

tommy2bad wrote: »

What?? am I missing something?

I suspect quite alot actually.
Harriet Harman's law on equality 'is anti-Christian' and unacceptable.

tommy2bad

Mr Streeter, Conservative MP for Devon South West, said: ‘Christians are not asking for special treatment, but we are looking for a level playing field and for sincerely held beliefs to be given equal space in our law and in our society.

No their looking for special treatment.

massey168

Only a small minority of Gay men have any intrest in long term monogmous sex, best to leave that dull restrictiveness to the 'breeders' out there (straight people), but it is an important rights cause that Gay people should be allowed to marry so that homosexuality and homosexual sex is eventually seen as normal and accepted and unquestioned 100% by everyone, especially the young. Marriage is held up as a hetrosexual trophy, it is high time that trophy is taken away from them.

Sonics2k

massey168 wrote: »

Only a small minority of Gay men have any intrest in long term monogmous sex, best to leave that dull restrictiveness to the 'breeders' out there (straight people), but it is an important rights cause that Gay people should be allowed to marry so that homosexuality and homosexual sex is eventually seen as normal and accepted and unquestioned 100% by everyone, especially the young. Marriage is held up as a hetrosexual trophy, it is high time that trophy is taken away from them.

I'm sorry, but just to be picky, do you have any source or proof of this?

From my personal observation, having grown up in the gay community and most of the male couples I knew have been in relationships for 15+ years.

I'd possibly agree that a lot of younger gay men are not looking for a long term relationship, but then neither are most young straight men either.

edit:
Other than, I do agree that Straight and Gay couples should have the exact same rights.

tommy2bad

massey168 wrote: »

Only a small minority of Gay men have any intrest in long term monogmous sex, best to leave that dull restrictiveness to the 'breeders' out there (straight people), but it is an important rights cause that Gay people should be allowed to marry so that homosexuality and homosexual sex is eventually seen as normal and accepted and unquestioned 100% by everyone, especially the young. Marriage is held up as a hetrosexual trophy, it is high time that trophy is taken away from them.

^ And just to prove all the nutters arent on one side. ^

massey168

tommy2bad wrote: »

^ And just to prove all the nutters arent on one side. ^

I see. Attack the poster, how very Christian of you. Say a mumbo jumbo rhyme for me if it will make you feel better about yourself, there's a good lad.

tommy2bad wrote: »

I'm sorry, but just to be picky, do you have any source or proof of this?

From my personal observation, having grown up in the gay community and most of the male couples I knew have been in relationships for 15+ years.

Not my 18+ years experience in Ireland and living in half a dozen other more civilsed/modern countries as well, but then each to his own. Opinions are subjective not objective

snafuk35

angeleyes wrote: »

I seem to be on a roll tonight.

I have a problem getting my head around this issue/question. It seems that the Catholic Church in its infinite wisdom is against homosexuality.... but my question is this and I take this from a hymn "God is love and those who live in God live in love"

There is nothing more special in this world that that of being loved or in love. Its said that there is a lock for every key and our soul mate is out there - we just have to find them. But for someone who is born gay why should they be deprived of the gift of a loving relationship just cos the CC say so. No one should be denied the love of another living being despite their sexuality. None of us asked to be born male or female or even gay or straight. Why would God create a life and then say that loving someone is wrong.

Explanations please or do I have a simplistic view of things?

The Catholic Church is quite clear on this if you would care to read the Catechism:

Chastity and homosexuality
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

That's it. End of argument.

I suggest you read the Bible - the word of God if you remember?

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination."(Leviticus 18:22 KJV)

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."(Leviticus 20:13 KJV)

The town of Sodom - where the word Sodomite comes from - was destroyed by fire sent down from heaven by God.

In Romans 1 it also mentioned:

"(26) Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. (27) In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

So it is clear as day that homosexuality is not permitted in Christianity, is a mortal sin and punishable by an eternity in hell unless the sinner sincerely repents before death and they face judgement on the Last Day.

tommy2bad

massey168 wrote: »

I see. Attack the poster, how very Christian of you. Say a mumbo jumbo rhyme for me if it will make you feel better about yourself, there's a good lad.



Not my 18+ years experience in Ireland and living in half a dozen other more civilsed/modern countries as well, but then each to his own. Opinions are subjective not objective

OK Ill attack the post, whats with the inflammatory language? 'breeders' and 'trophy to have taken away'. Man you sound just like the stereotype that the xians are against. I know 'in your face, out and proud' is a bit of a thing for some gay people but your attitude is just nuts and it's only going to work against you in the end.
The next bit wasn't me, I actually agree with you about gay men not looking for the same lifestyle as straight men. Whats more I think the normalization of homosexuality will cost us with the loss of queer culture but that should be a choice for gays to make. To make the choice equal access to all the choices has to be available. Marriage might not be for you but it might be what someone else wants.

tommy2bad

snafuk35 wrote: »

The Catholic Church is quite clear on this if you would care to read the Catechism:



That's it. End of argument. Nice debating style

I suggest you read the Bible - the word of God if you remember?

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination."(Leviticus 18:22 KJV)

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."(Leviticus 20:13 KJV)

The town of Sodom - where the word Sodomite comes from - was destroyed by fire sent down from heaven by God. Fail. Sodom's sin was not homosexuality, I suggest you read the bible

In Romans 1 it also mentioned:

"(26) Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. (27) In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

So it is clear as day that homosexuality is not permitted in Christianity, is a mortal sin and punishable by an eternity in hell unless the sinner sincerely repents before death and they face judgement on the Last Day.

And i thought massey168 was bad. Must be the crowd pre drinking and posting on a Saturday night.

Sonics2k

snafuk35 wrote: »

The Catholic Church is quite clear on this if you would care to read the Catechism:



That's it. End of argument.

I suggest you read the Bible - the word of God if you remember?

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination."(Leviticus 18:22 KJV)

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."(Leviticus 20:13 KJV)

The town of Sodom - where the word Sodomite comes from - was destroyed by fire sent down from heaven by God.

In Romans 1 it also mentioned:

"(26) Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. (27) In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

So it is clear as day that homosexuality is not permitted in Christianity, is a mortal sin and punishable by an eternity in hell unless the sinner sincerely repents before death and they face judgement on the Last Day.

Lovely fellow this God guy.

Makes people. Claims infinite Love and Compassion. Makes some people a different sexuality (presumably by mistake, or he's got a sick sense of humour) and then let's them burn in Hell, just for living a decent life with a person they love.

snafuk35

Sonics2k wrote: »

Lovely fellow this God guy.

Makes people. Claims infinite Love and Compassion. Makes some people a different sexuality (presumably by mistake, or he's got a sick sense of humour) and then let's them burn in Hell, just for living a decent life with a person they love.

Did you not read the post? I quoted the Bible directly - the actual word of God himself. That is that. End of. Homosexuality is clearly prohibited, it is clearly a mortal sin and it is clearly punishable by an eternity in hellfire.
The Bible speaks of hell as an outer darkness, a lake of burning sulfur where the worm does not die nor does the fire go out where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Therefore you cannot be a Christian and tolerate homosexuality or any other sin for that matter. Homosexuality is just one of course!:)

tommy2bad

Sonics2k wrote: »

Lovely fellow this God guy.

Makes people. Claims infinite Love and Compassion. Makes some people a different sexuality (presumably by mistake, or he's got a sick sense of humour) and then let's them burn in Hell, just for living a decent life with a person they love.

But he didn't make then different, they chose that, they can be straight if they want to be.
Maybe we can swap for a while, me and you can be gay, David Norris can be straight, we'll let George Clooney let us know

Sonics2k

snafuk35 wrote: »

Did you not read the post? I quoted the Bible directly - the actual word of God himself. That is that. End of. Homosexuality is clearly prohibited, it is clearly a mortal sin and it is clearly punishable by an eternity in hellfire.
The Bible speaks of hell as an outer darkness, a lake of burning sulfur where the worm does not die nor does the fire go out where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Therefore you cannot be a Christian and tolerate homosexuality or any other sin for that matter. Homosexuality is just one of course!:)

You mean the Bible that has been altered with time, changed to meet the point of view of certain peoples. The Bible that was written by men claiming it was the word of God. How about the Old Testament, which is taken directly from the Jewish Torah, but has completely removed certain chapters and even people from it, eg Lileth (the real First woman)


OH! How about those chapters that permit you to kill your daughter or sell her into slavery? What about the whole not mixing fabrics? Should I stand outside my house tomorrow threatening to throw rocks at my neighbours if I see them going to work?

Do you take ALL of that literally as well? No you damn well don't, because you're not an idiot!

Sonics2k

tommy2bad wrote: »

But he didn't make then different, they chose that, they can be straight if they want to be.
Maybe we can swap for a while, me and you can be gay, David Norris can be straight, we'll let George Clooney let us know

Oh Tommy, I know we conflict on things now and then, but please let this be a joke :P

tommy2bad

snafuk35 wrote: »

Did you not read the post? I quoted the Bible directly - the actual word of God himself. That is that. End of. Homosexuality is clearly prohibited, it is clearly a mortal sin and it is clearly punishable by an eternity in hellfire.
The Bible speaks of hell as an outer darkness, a lake of burning sulfur where the worm does not die nor does the fire go out where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Therefore you cannot be a Christian and tolerate homosexuality or any other sin for that matter. Homosexuality is just one of course!:)

Ah, how I missed the old hellfire and brimstone sermons, more of that I say.

massey168

tommy2bad wrote: »

OK Ill attack the post,

Bit late to pretend now. But I'll tell you what, I'll pretend your not pretending.

tommy2bad wrote: »

whats with the inflammatory language? 'breeders' and 'trophy to have taken away'.

I think your one of those poor Christians who confuses factual words with inflammatory ones.

tommy2bad wrote: »

Marriage might not be for you but it might be what someone else wants.

Rather than pretending what I said, read it.

I'm totally for Gay marriage rights, as I said its an important trophy for the Gay community, and it protects property rights etc., but like any trophy, its really a bit of shiny tin to get up the noses of certain self righteous breeders. You don't need it to be monogamous if that is your gig. But it is very important to see 'marriage' turned into an equally Gay 'institution', so another nail can be put in the coffin of those Christian and theist churches/religions who do not toe the Gay line. The tables are turning, and the shoe is on the other foot now. Of course as Gay people we're not supposed to say these things publically yet, but what the heck, its high time we should.

tommy2bad

massey168 wrote: »

Bit late to pretend now. But I'll tell you what, I'll pretend your not pretending.



I think your one of those poor Christians who confuses factual words with inflammatory ones.



Rather than pretending what I said, read it.

I'm totally for Gay marriage rights, as I said its an important trophy for the Gay community, and it protects property rights etc., but like any trophy, its really a bit of shiny tin to get up the noses of certain self righteous breeders. You don't need it to be monogamous if that is your gig. But it is very important to see 'marriage' turned into an equally Gay 'institution', so another nail can be put in the coffin of those Christian and theist churches/religions who do not toe the Gay line. The tables are turning, and the shoe is on the other foot now. Of couse as Gay people we're not supposed to say these things publically yet, but what the heck, its high time we can.

Oh would you ever go tidy your throw cushions or whatever you freaks do.
I hope thats a nice shoe btw not the old plain flat black ones we christians have to wear.

Doc Farrell

Time to lock it up.
Tommy , not like you....

snafuk35

By the way I am an atheist and I have given up on Christianity because it is diametrically opposed to many things I agree with but for a someone to claim to be Christian and then to be pro-gay is clearly idiotic.
Christianity clearly prohibits homosexuality in the strongest possible terms and it's quite simply laughable that someone who is gay would remain in the Christian faith.
It's like a pig farmer who insists he is a good Muslim or a man who enjoys nothing better than torturing cows to death who claims he is a good Hindu!
I mean come on!:D

massey168

tommy2bad wrote: »

Oh would you ever go tidy your throw cushions or whatever you freaks do.
I hope thats a nice shoe btw not the old plain flat black ones we christians have to wear.

Sorry, but your sterotypes are so 1990's backward Ireland it is unreal.
Times have changed : http://www.xtra.ca/public/viewstory.aspx?AFF_TYPE=2&STORY_ID=5228&PUB_TEMPLATE_ID=1

You need to broaden your mind and modernise

Doc Farrell

There are many millions around the world who don't post extreme stuff on the Internet , who call themselves Christians and who have nothing but love for all people no matter what their sexuality is. Any chance both sides could tone down the definitive positions?

As I've mentioned before there are no comments recorded about Jesus's opinions on homosexuality, so take a chill pill people.

tommy2bad

massey168 wrote: »

Sorry, but your sterotypes are so 1990's backward Ireland it is unreal.
Times have changed : http://www.xtra.ca/public/viewstory.aspx?AFF_TYPE=2&STORY_ID=5228&PUB_TEMPLATE_ID=1

You need to broaden your mind and modernise

http://www.moneyand****.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/gay_men.jpg

tommy2bad

snafuk35 ;
but for a someone to claim to be Christian and then to be pro-gay is clearly idiotic.

It a ship of fools dude welcome aboard.

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

tommy2bad

tommy2bad wrote: »

Oh would you ever go tidy your throw cushions or whatever you freaks do.
I hope thats a nice shoe btw not the old plain flat black ones we christians have to wear.

Apparently this could cause offense tho I intended it humorously, text is a poor medium for self satire.
I apologize for any and all offense caused. I did not mean to offend and regret doing so.

massey168

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Breeder is a factual term, nothing more, and isn't there something in your bumper book of magic beliefs about planks and splinters ?

tommy2bad

massey168 wrote: »

Breeder is a factual term, nothing more, and isn't there something in your bumper book of magic beliefs about planks and splinters ?

No it a slang term but your right their is something in our bumper book of magical beliefs about planks and motes. Not sure whats it got to do with anything though?
If you have so much antipathy towards religion or heterosexual people why are you posting here. You don't seem to have a point or anything constructive to say.
Some people who are Christian believe that their is nothing in the BBoMB that says that homosexuality is a sin or that homosexuals should be treated any differentially than anyone else. You seem to believe that all Christians are represented by the extreme end of the spectrum.
Remember God loves you, He loves everyone, it doesn't make you special.

massey168

tommy2bad wrote: »

No it a slang term but your right their is something in our bumper book of magical beliefs about planks and motes. Not sure whats it got to do with anything though?
If you have so much antipathy towards religion or heterosexual people why are you posting here. You don't seem to have a point or anything constructive to say.

Bearing false witness, tut tut. Pity you guys never practice what you preach to the rest of us.

tommy2bad wrote: »

Some people who are Christian believe that their is nothing in the BBoMB that says that homosexuality is a sin or that homosexuals should be treated any differentially than anyone else.

Even I know their book takes no such position. Oh I forgot some of you can also can 'interpret' whatever suits you best.

tommy2bad wrote: »

it doesn't make you special.

I'd like you to show where I claimed I was special ?, What does your book say about bearing false witness again ?
Oh I forgot, the rules only apply to others, not ye of course.

Zombrex

Onesimus wrote: »

Thats interesting. Dont you think that if God wanted to create another companion for a man he would have done so and created another man? Why would he have created a woman for another man?

I think we can see in the world today that Mans body does not make sense on its own. Nor does a womans body. But when brought together they make total sense.

What doesnt make sense ( even scientifically ) is the penis of one man going up the rectum of another man. and we are given no other reason for that other than ''We humans say so''.

Actually that does make sense scientifically. Humans have evolved nerves on the penis that incite pleasure in the man when stimulated. Nature hasn't got around to adapting those nerves to only find pleasure from a woman's vagina, and frankly nature probably never will. Which is why men can masturbate, and why even heterosexual couples regularly have anal and oral sex.

As for why a homosexual man would be sexually attracted to another man in the first place, as has been discussed on this forum many times, there are sound biological reasons why that would be the case, namely the genes that make a man predisposed to homosexuality have significant evolutionary benefit in other circumstances, such as in the homosexual man's sisters.

As for Genesis, well I don't know how literally you take that passage so frankly it is difficult to tell how to respond. Assuming you are not a young Earth creationist you will know that humans evolved from earlier species that also reproduced sexually, so it is not a case that men existed and then women existed.

Actually it is the other way around, it is most likely that as sexual reproduction evolved it was the male that emerged as the new gender. Sexual reproduction certainly has some advantages over asexual reproduction, but it is a bit irrelevant to the discussion since human homosexuals are not asexual.

Keylem

Marriage between a man and a woman - designed by God.
Marriage betweem same sex couples - designed by Satan.

Zombrex

Keylem wrote: »

Marriage between a man and a woman - designed by God.
Marriage betweem same sex couples - designed by Satan.

Since when does Satan design things, least of all human genetic code?

Keylem

Zombrex wrote: »

Since when does Satan design things, least of all human genetic code?

Nobody in the scientific/genetic field knows why people are gay, but Satan is using their plight to scupper God's plan for humanity!!

Zombrex

Keylem wrote: »

Nobody in the scientific/genetic field knows why people are gay, but Satan is using their plight to scupper God's plan for humanity!!

How exactly is he doing that. Be specific.

angeleyes

Zombrex wrote: »

How exactly is he doing that. Be specific.

Yes do please explain. How can Satan interfere with the human being in such a way. Surely the gift of life comes from God - it is He who made us not Satan.

gimmebroadband

I'm not seeing what the previous two posters are 'seeing', I don't think keylem is talking about genetics afaik.

What I think he maybe saying (and he can correct me if I'm wrong) is that some people are duped into thinking that it's okay to change marriage from what God intended, under the banner of equality, and that Satan is using the plight of ss couples to forward his agenda.

After all, Satan himself desired equality with God!

Keylem

I WAS talking about marriage, not genetics! :cool:

Zombrex

Keylem wrote: »

I WAS talking about marriage, not genetics! :cool:

Ok, what exactly is Satan doing in relation to marriage. Be specific.