Use Leap, got bus ticket with "ITS Purse Used"

n97 mini

Only ever use my Leap card on the bus to travel between Lucan and Leixlip.

Got the bus today and the driver was fumbling with the machine, I suspected he was confused. Anyway he printed out a ticket with "ITS Purse Used" and at the bottom is says Purse Balance €14.25. The website says I have €17.65. Did he give me this ticket as he knew he had overcharged me? He never said anything.

I will leave it until tomorrow to see does the €1.70 x 2 go through as the ticket suggests, what do I have to do to rectify his mistake?

Victor

If you have been overcharged, you need to get the money back from Dublin Bus io in O'Connell Street, which is unacceptable, but currently the only method.

It would seem the driver charged you for you plus a companion.

n97 mini

Victor wrote: »

It would seem the driver charged you for you plus a companion.

I was travelling alone. In fact I was the only person who got on at that stop.

I have never been given a ticket when using Leap before, so is the "ITS Purse Used" an admission of his mistake?

n97 mini

I phoned Leap and yer man confirmed that yes "ITS Purse Used" was me being charged for a 2nd person.

He said the only way to claim it back is for me to go into O'Connell St. He apologised several times for DB's arrangement describing it as "really bad" and "not acceptable" and that Leap's preference would be for them to handle all refunds, but the CIE companies have chosen to do it all themselves individually.

I spoke to DB who were not aware of what "ITS Purse Used" meant. I explained, and that as they have the option of backing transactions out before they're billed (as it's not real-time) that it would be a good way to undo drivers' mistakes. I asked had the a feedback system to record my suggestion and, well, I'd say the young wan I was talking to was more interested in going to the pub. Very polite, but didn't know much and was disinterested.

foggy_lad

n97 mini wrote: »

I phoned Leap and yer man confirmed that yes "ITS Purse Used" was me being charged for a 2nd person.

He said the only way to claim it back is for me to go into O'Connell St. He apologised several times for DB's arrangement describing it as "really bad" and "not acceptable" and that Leap's preference would be for them to handle all refunds, but the CIE companies have chosen to do it all themselves individually.

I spoke to DB who were not aware of what "ITS Purse Used" meant. I explained, and that as they have the option of backing transactions out before they're billed (as it's not real-time) that it would be a good way to undo drivers' mistakes. I asked had the a feedback system to record my suggestion and, well, I'd say the young wan I was talking to was more interested in going to the pub. Very polite, but didn't know much and was disinterested.

Will they pay for your trip into O'Connell street to collect the refund and your journey back home?

n97 mini

foggy_lad wrote: »

Will they pay for your trip into O'Connell street to collect the refund and your journey back home?

I asked that question, and yer one was "Oh yeah, sure, no problem" as she looked at the clock with Coppers on her mind.

Jehuty42

n97 mini wrote: »

Leap's preference would be for them to handle all refunds, but the CIE companies have chosen to do it all themselves individually.

Why didn't the NTA/DoT give Leap that power and force operators to comply?

n97 mini

Jehuty42 wrote: »

Why didn't the NTA/DoT give Leap that power and force operators to comply?

I suspect because they're figuring it out as they go along, and because the management etc drive to work and don't actually use Leap themselves.

BenShermin

Can't believe this double charging is still going on. I was overcharged on Monday, the driver couldn't issue a refund to my Leap so he gave me a change refund slip instead. I still have to go to 59 O'Connell, but at least I don't have to explain the problem to staff.

Three months in its farcical that this stuff is still happening tbh!!

Victor

n97 mini wrote: »

I phoned Leap and yer man confirmed that yes "ITS Purse Used" was me being charged for a 2nd person.

He said the only way to claim it back is for me to go into O'Connell St. He apologised several times for DB's arrangement describing it as "really bad" and "not acceptable" and that Leap's preference would be for them to handle all refunds, but the CIE companies have chosen to do it all themselves individually.

I'm not sure if this is the whole story. Leap don't have your money to refund it to you. Secondly, by making the transport operator sort the refund, it encourages them to solve the problem in the first place.

I spoke to DB who were not aware of what "ITS Purse Used" meant.

This is lack of training.

I explained, and that as they have the option of backing transactions out before they're billed (as it's not real-time) that it would be a good way to undo drivers' mistakes.

Not quite. The card is the account. The on-line card history is not the accou8nt. Billing **is** real time. However, the drivers have 10 minutes in which they can reverse the transaction. However, again the lack of training, many don't know how to do this.

I asked had the a feedback system to record my suggestion and, well, I'd say the young wan I was talking to was more interested in going to the pub. Very polite, but didn't know much and was disinterested.

Dublin Bus feedback comes across as very much broken.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Will they pay for your trip into O'Connell street to collect the refund and your journey back home?

I received a complimentary Transfer 90 when I went to collect my 40c.

BenShermin wrote: »

Can't believe this double charging is still going on.

Not quite. This was charging for two people due to human error. The system sees it as a legitimate transaction.

I was overcharged on Monday, the driver couldn't issue a refund to my Leap so he gave me a change refund slip instead. I still have to go to 59 O'Connell, but at least I don't have to explain the problem to staff.

This would appear to be contrary to procedure. Leap transaction should be refunded via the Leap refund system, not the cash refund system.

Three months in its farcical that this stuff is still happening tbh!!

This is a human error, it was not hte fault of the Leap system. It was the fault of a lack of training by Dublin Bus.

foggy_lad

Victor wrote: »

I'm not sure if this is the whole story. Leap don't have your money to refund it to you. Secondly, by making the transport operator sort the refund, it encourages them to solve the problem in the first place.

But they are not sorting out the problems which have been ongoing since the launch

This is lack of training.

How long do transport operators and shops need to train staff in using a simple e-purse? It's not rocket science.

Not quite. The card is the account. The on-line card history is not the accou8nt. Billing **is** real time. However, the drivers have 10 minutes in which they can reverse the transaction. However, again the lack of training, many don't know how to do this.

Possibly more to do with the drivers having a bus to drive and passengers to board and a schedule to keep so not having time to mess about navigating a broken system which should not have been launched until a flat fare or other driverless method of validation had been introduced.

Dublin Bus feedback comes across as very much broken.

Their complaints procedure is a bit hit and miss but the number of leapcard issues can't be making things any better.

I received a complimentary Transfer 90 when I went to collect my 40c.

That is great but it does not compensate for lost time.

Not quite. This was charging for two people due to human error. The system sees it as a legitimate transaction.

This would appear to be contrary to procedure. Leap transaction should be refunded via the Leap refund system, not the cash refund system.

This is a human error, it was not hte fault of the Leap system. It was the fault of a lack of training by Dublin Bus.

there seems to be a lot of "human error" associated with the leapcard which is then considered to be working correctly but I would say that it is not working due to the high numbers of errors mostly from within Dublin bus whether from drivers or incorrectly programmed validators!

Victor

foggy_lad wrote: »

But they are not sorting out the problems which have been ongoing since the launch

They are gradually working through them. Not as fast as one might like, but it is being done.

How long do transport operators and shops need to train staff in using a simple e-purse? It's not rocket science.

Perhaps an hour for bus staff. Much less for shop staff, as the product seems to only have one difference from other Payzone prodcuts - the balance check.

Possibly more to do with the drivers having a bus to drive and passengers to board and a schedule to keep so not having time to mess about navigating a broken system which should not have been launched until a flat fare or other driverless method of validation had been introduced.

Alek Smart has indicated that some of the driver training was very poor. If drivers were trained properly (and I suppose if a small number actually paid attention when they were being trained), then there would be much fewer complications.

Leap can't control the fares charged, so no flat fare - blame the successive ministers in charge.

Their complaints procedure is a bit hit and miss but the number of leapcard issues can't be making things any better.

Anything new will create feedback. I'm sure Network Direct has also created a lot of feedback.

That is great but it does not compensate for lost time.

Agreed, nor for getting the transaction history printed.

there seems to be a lot of "human error" associated with the leapcard which is then considered to be working correctly but I would say that it is not working due to the high numbers of errors mostly from within Dublin bus whether from drivers

Training. Training. Training.

or incorrectly programmed validators!

Note that the problem arose where the driver pressed the button before the card was presented to / read by the scanner. The software has been changed. This issue would have been slight difficult to detect pre-launch.

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

But they are not sorting out the problems which have been ongoing since the launch

Possibly more to do with the drivers having a bus to drive and passengers to board and a schedule to keep so not having time to mess about navigating a broken system which should not have been launched until a flat fare or other driverless method of validation had been introduced.

Their complaints procedure is a bit hit and miss but the number of leapcard issues can't be making things any better.

there seems to be a lot of "human error" associated with the leapcard which is then considered to be working correctly but I would say that it is not working due to the high numbers of errors mostly from within Dublin bus whether from drivers or incorrectly programmed validators!

I'd agree with Foggy_Lad's sentiments here.

A great deal of the "Problems" associated with Dublin Bus's Leapcard infrastructure are almost blindingly basic.

I would guess that c.5% of my at-machine transactions are Leapcard ,a very small figure,destined to reduce if these issues are not attended to.

Probably THE most basic issue is the orientation of the Leapcard reader on the Ticket Machine.

Quite simply,it is wrong,allowing the Leapcard to slide off,usually falling onto the floor and destroying any natural flow of passengers,both machine and/or remote reader based.

The other issue I have difficulty with is the variation in read times before the Leapcard display activates,which is now compounded by a new found tendency for the Leapcard screen to flicker and rapidly alternate between Cash/Leap.

The actual time-delay between my pressing the appropriate Leapfare button and the green-light to the Cardholder also appears highly variable,which leads to me having to ask a departing cardholder to re-present as the deduction did not go through.

Again,a simple issue at play,but why the Leapcard developers did not provide an unambiguous "Transaction Complete" signal TO THE DRIVER,is to my mind incredible.

The entire Leapcard/Wayfarer interface is,sadly,a convoluted mess,particularly when dealing with non-standard fares such as Schoolchild,City-Centre,Transaction Annulments or Out-of-Credit situations.

There is virtually nothing intuitive about the structure of the Leapcard screens,with various functions being scattered about the display,and importantly,some buttons now having a different function for Leap than they have/had for cash.

Much of the flow asociated with Busdriving/Passenger handling relates to repetitive,single keystroke entries to the Ticket Machine..."Keep it Simple,Stupid".....In this,The U.S Marine Corps were absolutely on target,Bullseye.

What the developers of Leapcard have delivered to us (Busdrivers AND Customers) is a system which fails the KISS test at almost every point of use......That is unforgivable and was from day one,(10 years ago)TOTALLY avoidable.

It is equally of note,that to date,no feedback or opinion has been sought from Dublin Bus Staff who operate Leapcard.

My great fear is of the next Leapcard issue,probably something simple,being the Straw which breaks the Camels back and sends the user back to cash,or even away from Public Transport altogether...I believe it to be THAT important.

KD345

It is disappointing that there are still so many issues with Leap Card. Following an expensive and extensive advertising campaign, many passengers bought a leap card as they felt it would improve their experience of using public transport. I'm guessing many of these people probably bought a leap card with about €20 or €50 credit, but my worry now is how many of these passengers will be rushing to top up again once their credit runs out?

Think about it. What real benefits are there? You may be charged for topping up at a shop, if you top up online it can be difficult for a bus passenger to get that credit onto their card. Then there is the serious issue of bus drivers issuing incorrect fares or duplicate fares. Also, for the majority of bus passengers, I'm assuming they have now realised that there is very little "leaping" actually involved, as those passengers who have gone to the trouble of actually buying a leap card still have to queue with with fare paying passengers.

The NTA had one chance to get this right. I'm not sure they have. It will be interesting to see how many bus passengers and first time Leap card users actually continue to top up their card.

foggy_lad

• Online top-up may take 48hours to apply to your card or may not apply at all leaving you stuck on a Monday morning,
• No seasonal ticket options yet, coming soon feels more like not in my lifetime,
• Driver errors on Dublin Buses,
• Poor driver training again on Dublin Bus,
• Very poor customer service practices again the fault of Dublin Bus
• no flat fare to avoid driver interaction on Dublin Bus
• No information coming from Leapcard apart from nonsense about promised features Coming soon.

Maybe it is time for an overhaul of the leapcard?

BenShermin

I have to say the only reason I use the Leap card is because it gives me a 40c saving on a return trip to town. If it wasn't for that I'd bring the card straight back to the retailer and ask for my €5 deposit back as the bloody thing can be more trouble than it's worth.

Between being charged two fares for one person, being charged €1.95 when I asked for a €1.70 fare, and drivers inability to issue annulments I'm just sick of the hassle and subsequent embarrassment of having to hold a bus full of commuters up to get these problems sorted. Even worse it seems likely that I might have to pay retailers a surcharge for this shoddy service in the near future!! Shure isn't it grand and all that, Shure what would ya be expecting for €55 million at all at all!!

*to be fair, I should add that the majority of drivers know the system, but these instances are all to frequent for my liking!

AlekSmart

KD345 wrote: »

It is disappointing that there are still so many issues with Leap Card. Following an expensive and extensive advertising campaign, many passengers bought a leap card as they felt it would improve their experience of using public transport. I'm guessing many of these people probably bought a leap card with about €20 or €50 credit, but my worry now is how many of these passengers will be rushing to top up again once their credit runs out?

Think about it. What real benefits are there? You may be charged for topping up at a shop, if you top up online it can be difficult for a bus passenger to get that credit onto their card. Then there is the serious issue of bus drivers issuing incorrect fares or duplicate fares. Also, for the majority of bus passengers, I'm assuming they have now realised that there is very little "leaping" actually involved, as those passengers who have gone to the trouble of actually buying a leap card still have to queue with with fare paying passengers.

The NTA had one chance to get this right. I'm not sure they have. It will be interesting to see how many bus passengers and first time Leap card users actually continue to top up their card.

I actually take a far dimmer view of this KD345.

The NTA and before them the RPA and the ITIG,have had over a decade to get all of these issues sorted and put to rights.

The essentials of this scheme were well flagged over a decade ago,by successive individuals and groups of stakeholders.

Meeting after meeting discussed and kicked the issues further down the road until we were finally graced with the rushed introduction of an ITS system with the flaws of a decade ago still firmly embedded within it.

WHY was at least some of the €40 million plus of "consultancy fees" and the like,not put to effective use to deliver a seamless Public Transport Ticketing Product FROM DAY 1...?

What we are currently struggling with is a chronic abberation and of little real advantage in terms of what was promised,but a solution remains possible IF the problems are addressed.

n97 mini

Just checked on-line and indeed I have been charged twice for the single journey.

The 2nd most annoying thing is that the bolix of a bus driver knew well he had made a mistake but never said anything to me.

AlekSmart

n97 mini wrote: »

Just checked on-line and indeed I have been charged twice for the single journey.

The 2nd most annoying thing is that the bolix of a bus driver knew well he had made a mistake but never said anything to me.

Could you perhaps offer us a definition of the term "Bolix" as used by you here n97mini ?

The reason I enquire is that thus far you have managed not only to deduce that the "Young wan" on the BAC customer service line was only interested in "going to the pub" and then you managed to further develop that into a specific pub (Coppers ?).

I am in awe of this ability to read personalities and intentions from afar ...;)

Got the bus today and the driver was fumbling with the machine, I suspected he was confused. Anyway he printed out a ticket with "ITS Purse Used" and at the bottom is says Purse Balance €14.25. The website says I have €17.65. Did he give me this ticket as he knew he had overcharged me? He never said anything.

As a long standing contributor to these threads you will have been aware that recieving a Paper Ticket for a Leapcard transaction means you have been charged a second fare,as you were on your own I presume you might have considered drawing this to the drivers attention at the time ?

Plenty of nonsense associated with Leapcard for sure,but calling a Busdriver,whom you concede, never even spoke to you,a "Bolix",kinda detracts from your angst at being charged a second €1.70 fare.....:)

At least it was'nt an Xpresso.

At least your paper ticket now identifies the Driver/Duty concerned,so the Company may be able to upskill the specific individual to ensure you don't experience the situation again..and perhaps transmit apologies for rushing to judgement online ?

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

At least your paper ticket now identifies the Driver/Duty concerned,so the Company may be able to upskill the specific individual to ensure you don't experience the situation again..and perhaps transmit apologies for rushing to judgement online ?

Ah for god's sake! If in the several months that Leap has been in use the company have not managed to upskill this and many other drivers and those in their own customer service how are we to have any faith in them ever being able to train their own staff in using the leapcard?

passengers DON'T CARE if drivers got ten seconds or ten days training, the fact is many are still blissfully unaware of how the thing operates and there seems to be a general acceptance of this as so many refunds are processed Daily by Dublin Bus! I hope every refund is accompanied by a travel90 ticket and a sincere apology!

We can only assume that Dublin bus do all the refunds themselves to try somehow to hide the numbers of mistakes and untrained staff from the powers that be in the NTA and Leap.

n97 mini

AlekSmart wrote: »

Could you perhaps offer us a definition of the term "Bolix" as used by you here n97mini ?

Someone who costs me time and money and not alone doesn't apologise for it, but slyly doesn't even let on he has done it.

AlekSmart wrote: »

As a long standing contributor to these threads you will have been aware that recieving a Paper Ticket for a Leapcard transaction means you have been charged a second fare

Nope, first I learned of this was when I had to phone Leap yesterday because of something that this driver had done without telling me.

AlekSmart

n97 mini wrote: »

Someone who costs me time and money and not alone doesn't apologise for it, but slyly doesn't even let on he has done it.

That's all well n good but you appear to have developed your sense of this since you posed it as a question in your OP....

Got the bus today and the driver was fumbling with the machine, I suspected he was confused. Anyway he printed out a ticket with "ITS Purse Used" and at the bottom is says Purse Balance €14.25. The website says I have €17.65. Did he give me this ticket as he knew he had overcharged me? He never said anything.

Perhaps fellow Boardsies managed to help firm up your "suspicion" of Driver Confusion into fullblown slyness,and a question as to whether he "Knew" of his error,into the certainty that he was/is "A Bolix"

Nope, first I learned of this was when I had to phone Leap yesterday because of something that this driver had done without telling me.

The one positive aspect of this is a learning curve relating to Leapcards little foilbles,which incidentally I consider to be unacceptable,but thats a far broader issue than merely labelling an individual Busdriver a "Bolix" after a single interaction with him.

As a matter of interest are there other individuals or groupings which merit the term"Bolix" based upon a single encounter with them....or is it a term you especially reserve for Busdrivers in general

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

That's all well n good but you appear to have developed your sense of this since you posed it as a question in your OP....



Perhaps fellow Boardsies managed to help firm up your "suspicion" of Driver Confusion into fullblown slyness,and a question as to whether he "Knew" of his error,into the certainty that he was/is "A Bolix"



The one positive aspect of this is a learning curve relating to Leapcards little foilbles,which incidentally I consider to be unacceptable,but thats a far broader issue than merely labelling an individual Busdriver a "Bolix" after a single interaction with him.

As a matter of interest are there other individuals or groupings which merit the term"Bolix" based upon a single encounter with them....or is it a term you especially reserve for Busdrivers in general

Whatever the driver was called on here after the fact, it appears from the account given that he had little clue about what he was doing when it came to issuing leap card fares to people on his bus.

This is not acceptable several months after the system has been rolled out. Given that he had difficulty issuing the correct fares he should have reported same to the controller and requested assistance ASAP and until that assistance arrived to him he should not have sold any leap fares instead letting those passengers travel free.

n97 mini

AlekSmart wrote: »

As a matter of interest are there other individuals or groupings which merit the term"Bolix" based upon a single encounter with them....or is it a term you especially reserve for Busdrivers in general

Look, I'm not getting into an argument about this. I understand you blindly defending bus drivers because you are one. But you weren't there and didn't see the nature of the transaction. I was. So please, as I am the one out of pocket and majorly inconvenienced through the actions of other(s), I reserve the right to call it as I see it.

AlekSmart

n97 mini wrote: »

Look, I'm not getting into an argument about this. I understand you blindly defending bus drivers because you are one. But you weren't there and didn't see the nature of the transaction. I was. So please, as I am the one out of pocket and majorly inconvenienced through the actions of other(s), I reserve the right to call it as I see it.

No arguement at all n97 mini....as 1 of 2000+ Dublin Bus drivers I most certainly do not put myself forward as a "defender" of their faith at all.

Your Driver did not meet your expectations in this instance,something which you initially put down to confusion.

Yet as the thread expands,we see this interpretation alter to the individual Driver being a "Bolix".

As,by your own account,there was NO other interaction between you and he,I'm curious as to what occurred to harden your view of this person,for that is what he is,rather than in integral part of the Bus itself.

You have every right to call it as you see it,and doubtless exercise that right,however you do not have a right to become abusive towards an individual on the basis of a single momentary interaction.

You most certainly have issue with Dublin Bus/Leapcard on a variety of problems, including Driver Training for ITS and poor general awareness of Leapcard procedures.

You are already aware of the avenues available to pursue those issues,however,yet again when outlining your complaint you choose to embark on a similar path of denigration...

I spoke to DB who were not aware of what "ITS Purse Used" meant. I explained, and that as they have the option of backing transactions out before they're billed (as it's not real-time) that it would be a good way to undo drivers' mistakes. I asked had the a feedback system to record my suggestion and, well, I'd say the young wan I was talking to was more interested in going to the pub. Very polite, but didn't know much and was disinterested.

I asked that question, and yer one was "Oh yeah, sure, no problem" as she looked at the clock with Coppers on her mind.

From my perspective,and I'd suggest the perspective of ANY Customer Service operation,once an individual comes out with remarks as bolded above,they substantially reduce the impact of their own complaint.

That,n97 mini,is me calling it as I see it.

n97 mini

AlekSmart wrote: »

Yet as the thread expands,we see this interpretation alter to the individual Driver being a "Bolix".

New information became available as the thread went on. When I started the thread I had a suspicion I had been overcharged. I could not confirm it. It was not until it appeared on my Leap card on-line account the next day that it was confirmed that said driver had overcharged me without saying anything.

As I said, I'm not arguing it. I was there, and I told it as I see it.

AlekSmart wrote: »

That,n97 mini,is me calling it as I see it.

On an internet forum, not the real world. But you can do what you like.

AlekSmart

n97 mini wrote: »

New information became available as the thread went on. When I started the thread I had a suspicion I had been overcharged. I could not confirm it. It was not until it appeared on my Leap card on-line account the next day that it was confirmed that said driver had overcharged me without saying anything.

As I said, I'm not arguing it. I was there, and I told it as I see it.


On an internet forum, not the real world. But you can do what you like.

There's no arguing is there...?

Different perceptions perhaps,but reasoned nonetheless.

The Ticket Machine display would have shown the Cardholder,at the time of transaction,what the available card balance was.

The DublinBus Leapcard experience is flawed,and thats for sure,however thats a different issue altogether to intimating that an individual Busdriver has deliberately issued you with a second ticket.l

Are you suggesting that this fellow has embarked upon a crusade to overcharge all Leapcard holders,or alternatively has targeted You specifically ?

You have experienced a mistake on the Busdrivers part...you have raised the issue with the relevant companies...why the urge to denigrate individual staff members who,in the case of the BAC Customer Care gal,you have never even met ?

My issue here,is the nonchalant ease with which you casually abuse,on an internet forum or otherwise a complete stranger who never even spoke with you,even after your "suspicions were aroused" and you had opportunity to raise it with him then.

I'm afraid it appears a rush to judgement and execution from my (real world) perspective.

Sponge Bob

The ticket machine is off net...it synchs back at the depot I think. It may well start the day with 'a balance' for 'a card' but it does not update the database in transit I understand.

Send an email to Varadkar OP and tell him to sort it for you . minister@transport.ie and via http://www.leovaradkar.ie/?page_id=4

bk

I have not seen the interface of the ticket machines, but from AlexSmarts description and as a software engineer myself, it sounds like a very shoddy user interface design job.

Having seen the pretty terrible design of the leap.ie website, it really doesn't surprise me *

As it has been said, the KISS principle rules user interface design. But to my mind the entire Leap experience is completely broken on Dublin Bus.

- Can't top up on DB, automated top-ups should have been available from day one.
- Paying by Leap seems slower then by cash
- Too many mistakes by drivers (either due to user error or bad UI and software).

To really follow the KISS principle that primary focus and aim of DB should be to eliminate driver/passenger interaction to a minimum so that the diver can focus on driving and operating the bus safely.

Ideally Leap should be a flat fare on Dublin Bus. If that is too much to handle, then a compromise of setting Leap maximum fare either at the price of a travel 90 or the 1.90 fare and giving the option to tag off for shorter journeys.

* Different teams probably developed the website and the ticket machine interface as it requires a different set of skills, embedded programing versus web application programming. However it shows the same shoddy management decisions to me.

Dravokivich

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The ticket machine is off net...it synchs back at the depot I think. It may well start the day with 'a balance' for 'a card' but it does not update the database in transit I understand.

Send an email to Varadkar OP and tell him to sort it for you . minister@transport.ie and via http://www.leovaradkar.ie/?page_id=4

The ticket machine is "off net" due to a limitation of it. It's not a matter of ticking an option on a config file AFAIK.

The cards themselves hold the credit/transaction information. The bus does not need to be live to read this. the delay in updating the back office just means it takes longer for you to view it on your transaction history. There is the same similar delays with An Luas and Irish Rail. The only difference with them being online, means you are able to receive Top Ups from them.

E-mailing Varadkar won't change it.

AlekSmart

bk wrote: »

I have not seen the interface of the ticket machines, but from AlexSmarts description and as a software engineer myself, it sounds like a very shoddy user interface design job.

Having seen the pretty terrible design of the leap.ie website, it really doesn't surprise me *

As it has been said, the KISS principle rules user interface design. But to my mind the entire Leap experience is completely broken on Dublin Bus.

- Can't top up on DB, automated top-ups should have been available from day one.
- Paying by Leap seems slower then by cash
- Too many mistakes by drivers (either due to user error or bad UI and software).

To really follow the KISS principle that primary focus and aim of DB should be to eliminate driver/passenger interaction to a minimum so that the diver can focus on driving and operating the bus safely.

Ideally Leap should be a flat fare on Dublin Bus. If that is too much to handle, then a compromise of setting Leap maximum fare either at the price of a travel 90 or the 1.90 fare and giving the option to tag off for shorter journeys.

* Different teams probably developed the website and the ticket machine interface as it requires a different set of skills, embedded programing versus web application programming. However it shows the same shoddy management decisions to me.

Could'nt have put it better meself !!

From my perspective the current DublinBus Leapcard interface is a classic case of "Too Many Cooks" having rather spectacularly spoiled the Leapcard broth.

However,I'm loath to blame Dublin Bus entirely for this sad situation.

There is no gatting away from the fact that Leapcard remains a mainstream Government Policy issue relating to Public Transport.

The various agencies involved in it's gestation and eventual birth comprise a full list of STATUTORY Bodies assiciated with Public Transport from the Department of Transport down.

ANY ONE of these agencies,including the ITIB itself had the power to set the parameters for the ITS scheme and thus ensure it's comprehensive success.

For whatever reason however,NONE of these agencies managed to display even a smidgin of understanding as to the vast possibilities inherent in Contactless Card technology to improve the lot of the Public Transport user.

It should be noted that Dublin Bus's own Contactless Products have been operational and trouble free for some years now.

This,as a result of the early decision to allow Operators to develop and introduce individual contactless products with a vague committment to integrate the various products at a later stage.

This "Later Stage Integration" remains,for me,the basic flaw in the entire project,as the integration process for the CIE group alone graphically demonstrates.

What we now have is a situation which renders the KISS principle almost impossible to achieve,unless one of the Statutories gets a huge rush of reality to it's head and legislates it's way out of this mess.