facebook & teachers &children

amtaxi

Recently discovered that a member of staff in my childrens school is "Friends" with a large number of the children in school on facebook. They also communicate with the children via facebook.
Believing this is highly inappropriate (to put it mindly) I contacted the department of education and after much passing "from billy to jack" discovered that they have no policy regarding teachers communicating with children via social media or phone/text. - apparently it's up to each individual school what their policies are :eek:
I consider this to be a very serious child protection issue - have we learned nothing from our past mistakes.
How does everyone else feel about this?
Do you know what the policy is in your children's school?

cynder

My daughter tells me the principle stalks the kids pages looking for anything that they may say against the school or the teachers.



Personally i think its good the kids and the teachers get on.

banie01

Has this member of staff initiated or partaken in any inappropriate contact?
As facebook policy is that you must be at least 13 to join(Easily circumvented I know), I'm assuming your child is in Secondary school and has their own circle of friends outside your immediate inspection?
What makes this teachers contact more inappropriate than these?

Have you built a relationship of trust with your child where they will come to you and talk?
Have you equipped your child with the skills to protect themselves online?
Do you have access to their social network log ons? To keep tabs and are you their friend online?
I mean from actual predators now, not people working in their local school.

Not from employees of the Dept of Education who are likely using FB as a tool to interact with pupils?
Apart from this teacher having pupils as his 'friends' has there been any misconduct or innappropriateness on his part?

Because if there hasn't been, you seem to be totally over reacting and treating theis person as guilty of grooming!
While it may be ill advised of this teacher to have an FB presence available to his pupils, In the absence of an official policy nothing wrong has occured(Unless there is more to the story)
FB is currently the 'in' form of communication amongst teens and maybe this teacher feels there is an advantage to be gained if their pupils see them as 'human'?

amtaxi

If a teacher on facebook has 300 "friends" and 280 of these are children do you see anything wrong with this?
How do you recognise a paedophile? did you know that the majority of them try to place themselves in areas where they can be in contact with children?
how would you feel if you child made contact with a teacher/paedophile on facebook and arranged to meet without your knowledge?
How would you feel if something happened?
I'm not trying to be overdramatic but I feel we should protect our children as much as possible... convicted children molesters will admit to using facebook as a way of contacting children.
Finally should teachers not be communicating through the appropriate school channels or through parents

Moonbeam

Facebook is blocked to the majority of schools.
I don't find it appropriate that teachers are using it as a means of communication other then via the schools facebook page.

amtaxi

banie01 wrote: »

Has this member of staff initiated or partaken in any inappropriate contact?
As facebook policy is that you must be at least 13 to join(Easily circumvented I know)
But I'm going to assume your child is over 13?
Have you built a relationship of trust with your child where they will come to you and talk?
Have you equipped your child with the skills to protect themselves online?
Do you have access to their social network log ons? To keep tabs and are you their friend online?
I mean from actual predators now, not people working in their local school.

Not from employees of the Dept of Education who are likely using FB as a tool to interact with pupils?
Apart from this teacher having pupils as his 'friends' has there been any misconduct or innappropriateness on his part?

Because if there hasn't been, you seem to be totally over reacting and treating theis person as guilty of grooming!
A child is a person aged 18 and under.
My problem with this is that while this person may be of good character it is teaching children that's it's ok to communicate with someone in this position without their parents knowing.
Me personally I have my children's passwords and monitor regurally.
I am not concerned for my own children - but I do have an overall concern. I would consider myself to be very knowledgeable on the area of paedophiles and child grooming and this causes me a great deal of concern.

MrTsSnickers

It is up to parents to monitor their children's internet usage. By the way did you use the appropriate methods of complaint toward the school (i.e. speak to the staff member in question/year or class head/principal?) or did you just steam roll to the Dept? Schools have massive leeway over many areas of day to day running e.g. uniform, blocked sites in school, appropriate levels of communication i.e. social network sites etc.

If it's causing you that much concern. Go through the appropriate channels and make a complaint with the school. If you get no joy there, THEN go to the board of management, still no joy, Dept. of Education.

amtaxi

MrTsSnickers wrote: »

It is up to parents to monitor their children's internet usage. By the way did you use the appropriate methods of complaint toward the school (i.e. speak to the staff member in question/year or class head/principal?) or did you just steam roll to the Dept? Schools have massive leeway over many areas of day to day running e.g. uniform, blocked sites in school, appropriate levels of communication i.e. social network sites etc.

If it's causing you that much concern. Go through the appropriate channels and make a complaint with the school. If you get no joy there, THEN go to the board of management, still no joy, Dept. of Education.

Have gone through appropriate channels - still waiting for a reply - have been fobbed off because noone is available to meet me or too busy to take a phone call. I agree its a parents responsibility to monitor internet usage - but at the same time polices should be in place which protect our children

Hannibal Smith

To be fair, I think that's a bit 'funny'! Maybe the teacher has two pages, one for the pupils, and another for their own private friends? That could be why they only have the school kids on it? But I do think it's a bit strange that a teacher would be on a school kids FB page? I don't see it's any of the teacher's business what the students say on their FB pages about the school or otherwise? Unless it's to get a handle on some sort of cyber bullying or something? All the question marks!

amtaxi

The Irish sports council have a policy on communication with children - at least they are aware of potential risks

http://www.irishsportscouncil.ie/Participation/Code_of_Ethics/Social_Media_Factsheet/

silverharp

I dont see the problem. do people have a low opinion of teachers that they should be treated as potential abusers?

... - have we learned nothing from our past mistakes.

erm yes, listen to your children and impart to them the skills to get on with life.

bearhugs

I'm a teacher, and while I get on well with the majority of the students I come into contact with on a daily basis, I would NEVER accept them or add them as friends on Facebook. I wouldn't like them to know my personal details, to see the photos I have on my account of my family etc., and to see photos others tag me in. I don't think it's healthy to allow students, as nice as they may be, that level of access into your life.

Any student who has ever added me on Facebook has been immediately reported for unwanted contact, and after the first few, I had students referring to it in class. So I put it to them that they wouldn't like me to be able to see the things posted on their pages, and vice versa.

I know in my school of over 50 staff, maybe a quarter have Facebook pages, and none will accept students. It really blurs the lines between professionalism and friendship. Your students are exactly that, not your friends. As to those who say teachers may use it for learning purposes, there are many sites very similar to Facebook used for that. I use one called edmodo, where I have set up a class group, and can give assignments, marks, share videos and the like. Parents can check in at any time and see what is being posted, and there is no chat or private mail function.

Old Perry

Are Teachers not garda vetted every year?, i cant see a need for a teacher to communicate with a student over social media but i also cant see any harm in it either, innocent till proven guilty and all, and if it was such a problem/stress a quick 'so you feel its appropriate....' to the teacher (or if your not so gutsy, the principle) would suffice?

amtaxi

@ silverharp
No I don't have a low opinion of teachers - in fact the complete opposite! What I mean by past mistakes is that it is not so long ago that someone may have asked do we have a low opinion of priests. Sex offenders do not come from a specific class, they do not have a specific job, they are not from a specific area - the facts are that one could be living next door to you, could be coaching your kids in GAA, could be the person you have a drink with every weekend - the fact is that until you know, you don't know. Most of the sporting organisations, youth clubs, scouts etc. in this country have now introduced policies covering this area, yet the area in which our children spend a large proportion of there time have zero policies. I agree with you that parents must try to equip their children with the necessary life skills to try to protect themselves, but unfortunately sometimes things go wrong. Personnally I can't understand why a teacher or a person in a similar position would wish to communicate and be "friends" with a child on facebook - teachers are not friends with their students - they are their teachers - and that doesnn't mean that they shouldn't have a good relationship with their students, of course they should, but it should be a professional one. My issue is not with teachers in general it's with the department of education, boards of management etc. having a social media policy is a protection for both the children and teachers. But above all these policies are to protect children, whose welfares come before all else.. "best interest of the child"

Old Perry

amtaxi wrote: »

@ silverharp
No I don't have a low opinion of teachers - in fact the complete opposite! What I mean by past mistakes is that it is not so long ago that someone may have asked do we have a low opinion of priests. Sex offenders do not come from a specific class, they do not have a specific job,

you may not have a low opinion of teachers but your basing your opinion of teachers on actions of people who all come from essentially a specific class, a specific job and background, a unique case.

amtaxi wrote: »

the facts are that one could be living next door to you, could be coaching your kids in GAA, could be the person you have a drink with every weekend

could be very true, but to be fair it is very very unlikely, are you really this suspicious of your neighbours, children's coaches or your own friends?

the fact is that until you know, you don't know. Most of the sporting organisations, youth clubs, scouts etc. in this country have now introduced policies covering this area, yet the area in which our children spend a large proportion of there time have zero policies. I agree with you that parents must try to equip their children with the necessary life skills to try to protect themselves, but unfortunately sometimes things go wrong. Personnally I can't understand why a teacher or a person in a similar position would wish to communicate and be "friends" with a child on facebook - teachers are not friends with their students - they are their teachers - and that doesnn't mean that they shouldn't have a good relationship with their students, of course they should, but it should be a professional one. My issue is not with teachers in general it's with the department of education, boards of management etc. having a social media policy is a protection for both the children and teachers. But above all these policies are to protect children, whose welfares come before all else.. "best interest of the child"

dont get me wrong im all for the best interests and well being of kids, but this 'professional' relationship concept is thrown round to much, many people im sure have an informal relationship with their manager/superior, and is it possible to have an informal relationship with a child. What about the other side of the coin?, what if the teacher was simply to inoffensive to ignore a friend request your kid sent without you knowing?
Teachers almost spend more time a day with children then their parents do, im sure they have a fairly close relationship, To imply that a teacher is indecent even immoral for just accepting a ''friends request with a child'' on facebook is wrong and if the teachers name were mentioned here im sure would be slanderous.

Edit!!: most of this post is mine (2nd,4th and 6th p/graphs + highlighted), the quoting went wrong.

amtaxi

I haven't mentioned the name of the person involved or the school for that matter - and I have no intention of doing so. My children are not "freinds" with this person on facebook. This issue came to my attention. I am involved in a number of areas on a voluntary basis with children and in each of these areas this would not be allowed to happen. I would consider myself to have a very good relationship with all of these children, but also would consider it to be highly inappropriate to be friends with them on facebook. In the case of the person in our school they have not only accepted friend request but also communicate with the children. Their relationship with the children is not informal, it is professional.

LadyMayBelle

Interesting article from the UK recently:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/jan/23/teacher-misconduct-cases-facebook

In my opinion someting should be done; teachers are in professional relationship with parents and children and should decline requests and imo report them to the head; you wouldn't friend request your GP, your social worker, counsellor or a health visitor?

amtaxi

LadyMayBelle wrote: »

Interesting article from the UK recently:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/jan/23/teacher-misconduct-cases-facebook

In my opinion someting should be done; teachers are in professional relationship with parents and children and should decline requests and imo report them to the head; you wouldn't friend request your GP, your social worker, counsellor or a health visitor?

This is my point exactly - thank you.

campo

I would not be in favour of this at all it may be all innocent but as a previous poster said what if this teacher gets tagged during a night out and his pupils can then see this teacher , I would defo have a word with him.

My young lad is also on FB and recently his football coach added him as a friend I questioned the coach on this and he told me that this is not his real account he just set it up so he could send them on the fixtures and trainging dates etc and to make them full more like a team, I was Ok with this but I still keep a eye on my sons FB activity and he can only use it in the sitting room when I am there basically looking over his shoulder

Old Perry

i didn mean to single you out there amtaxi, im neither a parent nor a teacher so my opinion could be different if i was in your situation. and i didn suggest you name the person in question, i simply suggested that if you had and then combined with the general feeling in the thread it would be very close to slanderous.

I was more shocked (by the general trend of the thread) & by how this is being blown out of proportion,this ''something should be done'' mentality suggests formal action should be taken which imo is not neccesary for something as harmless as the click of a button.

Whether kids are friends with teachers or not, facebook should still be monitored, imo anybody who thinks a teacher has a purely professional relationship with there pupils is fooling themselves. in that case adding a teacher as friend on facebook is in the end just a matter of personal preference for each parent i suppose.

wdmfapq4zs83hv

I wouldnt be comfortable with that. Its just a bit, well its a bit odd isnt it.

amtaxi

Old Perry wrote: »

i didn mean to single you out there amtaxi, im neither a parent nor a teacher so my opinion could be different if i was in your situation. and i didn suggest you name the person in question, i simply suggested that if you had and then combined with the general feeling in the thread it would be very close to slanderous.

I was more shocked (by the general trend of the thread) & by how this is being blown out of proportion,this ''something should be done'' mentality suggests formal action should be taken which imo is not neccesary for something as harmless as the click of a button.

Whether kids are friends with teachers or not, facebook should still be monitored, imo anybody who thinks a teacher has a purely professional relationship with there pupils is fooling themselves. in that case adding a teacher as friend on facebook is in the end just a matter of personal preference for each parent i suppose.

I don't feel I'm blowing this out of proportion. And yes I would like to see formal action- now with the teacher in question - with the policy makers. IMO this is a very basic policy which should be in place purely from a child protection perspective. I think the link to the guardian newspaper upholds this point. Yes parents need to monitor their childrens internet usage, but things do go wrong - is it not better to have safeguards in place. As for the professional relationships of teachers with children, I'm sure there are many good teachers in this country who pride themselves on how they conduct themselves. Being professional dosen't mean not being friendly with these children - but there is a big difference between that and being their "friends".

These safeguards are now in place in many areas. This happened because of what has happened in the past i.e. swimming coaches. These safeguards are there to protect, not to label anyone, not to say that teachers, sports coaches, youth club leaders etc are bad people.

I'm sure the parents of children who have suffered from child abuse now wish that similar policies were there to protect their children. I'm sure the parents of children in the Uk to which the Guardian refer think the same.

byhookorbycrook

Primary teacher here, have requests (verbally, i.e in school) from children to friend them,I tell them to come back when they are 18. HOWEVER,many of our teachers use PBworks to set up class wikis etc, post homework and assignments, would this also be objectionable so??

amtaxi

This is totally different to Facebook

Facebook = personal contact
PBworks= geared towards online learning

don't see a problem with it at all!

implausible

I find this thread a bit worrying as the OP seems to be focusing on child-protection issues, rather than the unprofessionalism of Facebook contact between a teacher and student. To me, it's inappropriate because of my own need for privacy and not because teachers are a danger to children.

Parents entrust their children to the care of Garda-vetted, trained professional adults, who are constantly in the company of their children, in the classroom, away on trips, giving first aid, one-on-one tuition and in disciplinary situations. I find the idea that a parent would trust a teacher in these circumstances but when the internet is mentioned, start scaremongering about paedophilia, nonsensical.

I don't accept students, past or present, as friends on Facebook. That is my choice. Some of my colleagues, however, do. That is their choice. There is a greater risk, in my opinion, of me getting abuse and inappropriate comments from a student, than there is of me 'grooming' one of my students online.

When you talk about grooming etc, you are conjuring up the sinister unknown paedophile who inveigles his way into a child's trust, not someone that they are looking at for several hours per day! Every child on Facebook has friends who are adult. Should uncles, cousins and neighbours be prevented from being Facebook friends with young people too?

The Lovely Muffin

If I had children and they were on Facebook, I wouldn't be too happy about them being friends with their teachers on a teachers personal page, however if there was an official page that was used solely for educational purposes I wouldn't have a problem with it.

When I was in college two of our tutors each had Facebook pages because it was easier for them to upload files (notes, word documents, videos etc) which we needed for our course.

The only reason both of those tutors did have Facebook pages was because they both lived in the countryside and didn't have access to broadband, only dial up, so it was easier for them to add the notes, documents, videos etc onto one page, rather than mass-emailing hundreds of students.

I know a teacher from a secondary school I attended is now friends with a lot of the students in the school and some students who were in my class. I personally see it as unprofessional, a teacher having students who they thought in the past and currently teach as friends on their personal Facebook pages, I don't see any need for it.

January

The Lovely Muffin wrote: »

If I had children and they were on Facebook, I wouldn't be too happy about them being friends with their teachers on a teachers personal page, however if there was an official page that was used solely for educational purposes I wouldn't have a problem with it.

When I was in college two of our tutors each had Facebook pages because it was easier for them to upload files (notes, word documents, videos etc) which we needed for our course.

The only reason both of those tutors did have Facebook pages was because they both lived in the countryside and didn't have access to broadband, only dial up, so it was easier for them to add the notes, documents, videos etc onto one page, rather than mass-emailing hundreds of students.

I know a teacher from a secondary school I attended is now friends with a lot of the students in the school and some students who were in my class. I personally see it as unprofessional, a teacher having students who they thought in the past and currently teach as friends on their personal Facebook pages, I don't see any need for it.

I agree with the current pupil thing but I have a teacher that used to teach me as a friend on my facebook page, she was a sub, and wasn't much older than me at the time (I was in 6th year and 18, she was fresh out of college, so she was 23), a lot of the students gave her grief because she was a sub and had a lot of different views than some of the students would have had.

There were 3/4 girls in the class that didn't give her grief and I was one, when she left she left cards for us with her email address on, and we emailed back and forth for a while, just asking how each other was and stuff, we friended each other on facebook eventually, but we do still talk a lot. She's a lovely woman and I'd class her as a good friend now.

Lola92

I am friends with some of my former teachers on fb but only from the time that I left school and was no longer a student of theirs.

I would see it as being very unprofessional to accept students as a friend on a teachers personal facebook page. It is really blurring the lines between friendship and a teacher/student relationship which should be maintained until the time they leave school IMO.

I would definitely approach the board of management and submit a formal request for a policy on online & social media behaviours to be drawn up (this could include online bullying etc. if it is not already being catered for in the current policies). The best way to do this might be through the parents council as a united front.

MariMel

Lola92 wrote: »

I would see it as being very unprofessional to accept students as a friend on a teachers personal facebook page. It is really blurring the lines between friendship and a teacher/student relationship which should be maintained until the time they leave school IMO.

I would definitely approach the board of management and submit a formal request for a policy on online & social media behaviours to be drawn up (this could include online bullying etc. if it is not already being catered for in the current policies). The best way to do this might be through the parents council as a united front.

I would agree with this idea to approach the school either directly in writing or via the parents council. It does blur the borders between the student/teacher relationship.

It is also good to hear of a parent actually being actively aware of who their childrens friends are. On a side note I accepted albeit very briefly, as a friend the 12yr old daughter of a friend as we had all gone to a concert the week before and she wanted to tag me in a photo from the night. I am nothing short of appalled at the overtly sexy images some of her friends had as their profile image....posing in next to nothing, with more flesh showing than is appropriate. To make matter worse I thought that i hoped they at least had a private profile....but no....none did, making all these 12yr old girls profile open for anyone at all to view their photos and access their pages.
Facebook when used properly offers you a choice of what any person, even those on your friends list can see. This too should be taught to those using social media and parents too should be aware of these.

CrazyRabbit

If you trust the teacher to look after the kids during school hours, then I don't see why they can't be trusted to have contact with the same kids via Facebook. It's not like it's been done subversively with anonymous accounts etc.

Facebook is a modern part of life now. For many kids, it's as natural as talking in the playground. And teachers like to pay attention to what's happening in the school playground. Teachers can use it to better understand the kids they teach, identify bullying or difficulties the children are having.

I would however hope that the teacher has 2 separate Facebook accounts, one for their private life and another school related account. The children don't need to be seeing the teachers private life.

So long as the parents of the children monitor their Facebook accounts, there is no danger and no reason to block this.

amtaxi

Ruby buckton wrote: »

Ah come on the OP is very over the top and shows how people are afraid of social media because of RTE Prime time type propaganda.

My reasoning behind my original post has nothing to with any sort of Tv propaganda. I have spent alot of time studying child protection and related issues and am well aware of what can happen if proper procedures are not put in place. I am far from being afraid of social media but do have an understanding of the potential dangers for children if it is not monitored properely. I have interviewed convicted rapists/sex offenders and unfortunately they have admitted to using social media, sports clubs etc to get access to potential victims.

As I previously stated any sports clubs, youth clubs, scouts etc. have these policies in place already and I find it incredible to discover that the department of education do not.

I don't have a problem with teachers being friends with ex students, afterall when they leave school they are adults. I do have a serious issue with an adult, who is suppossed to be a professional making contact with a child without their parents knowledge. How anyone could suggest that a teacher who 280 "friends" on facebook who are mainly children is acting appropriately is beyond me.

if you think I'm being over the top, fine. I hope that in the future that the policy is put in place because it's the appropriate thing to do and not as a reaction to something that has gone wrong.

shazj

i think ur dead right amtaxi!! i would feel very uncomfortable if a teacher wanted to be friends with one of my kids! everything u say makes sense. the pedos in this country got away with it far to long because no one asked questions or confronted the possible ones! if this teacher has added his students for innocent reasons he will have no problem if u have a word with the principal which i would. and honestly as a teacher he should know better!! what age is your child?

Glinda

A question for those who are completely comfortable with facebook contact, how would you feel if you found out a teacher was phoning or texting your child socially?

I have to say I'm not one to be paranoid about things generally, but this feels inappropriate to me, just as social phone calls/texts or emails from a teacher/coach/other adult in a position of authority outside of the normal context of their professional relationship would seem inappropriate and at best unwise.

cynder

Glinda wrote: »

A question for those who are completely comfortable with facebook contact, how would you feel if you found out a teacher was phoning or texting your child socially?

I have to say I'm not one to be paranoid about things generally, but this feels inappropriate to me, just as social phone calls/texts or emails from a teacher/coach/other adult in a position of authority outside of the normal context of their professional relationship would seem inappropriate and at best unwise.

Depends on the conversation, some teachers know kids as they are neighbours, or are related. A few of my daughters friends are facebook friends with me, i dont post anything untoward and have PMed them a few time regarding setting up sleepovers and town trips/cinema trips and so on. My daughter also has a few adult moms as her friends, one invited her to her wedding in august as she is good friends with her daughter.

She also has her horse riding instructors as friends ( and one of the horse riding instructors has at least 60 or 70 under 18's as a friend) im totally comfortable with that. She is also my friend. I get on really well with her and she gets on great with my daughter. No trust issues what so ever.

CrazyRabbit

Glinda wrote: »

A question for those who are completely comfortable with facebook contact, how would you feel if you found out a teacher was phoning or texting your child socially?

I have to say I'm not one to be paranoid about things generally, but this feels inappropriate to me, just as social phone calls/texts or emails from a teacher/coach/other adult in a position of authority outside of the normal context of their professional relationship would seem inappropriate and at best unwise.

It depends. Was a reason given to me by the teacher that makes sense? Is it done secretly? What is the content of the texts/messaging/emails etc? It could be completely harmless or absolutely vile.

Back when I was 13, there was a Christian Brother who brought myself and 2 other lads out ever few weekends. Usually a walk somewhere, a meal, and a lot of chatting. I had a lot of bad things happen to me around that age, he spotted that and this was his way to help. I greatly appreciated it. In todays worlds, I'm sure he would have used texts and facebook. There was never anything inappropriate...just a kind soul helping some troubled kids during his weekends.

Society and the media has us suspicious of everyone. They have most people thinking that there are paedophiles around every corner just looking for a chance to kidnap/abuse kids. In truth, the number of teachers, or people in general who would harm a child is incredible small.

I go back to what I said earlier. If you trust the teacher during school hours, then I don't see why that trust should suddenly disappear in Facebook, Twitter etc. You either trust the teacher or you don't.

cynder

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

It depends. Was a reason given to me by the teacher that makes sense? Is it done secretly? What is the content of the texts/messaging/emails etc? It could be completely harmless or absolutely vile.

t.

+1 all depends whats being said and if its done secretly.

The Big Red Button

amtaxi wrote: »

If a teacher on facebook has 300 "friends" and 280 of these are children do you see anything wrong with this?[\Quote]

No, I would not necessarily see anything wrong with this at all. The way I would interpret this is that the teacher (sensibly) has a facebook account, separate from their personal account, to communicate with students. It's a good idea - they're staying on good terms with the students by accepting the friend requests, but are not compromising themselves by letting the students see too much personal information.

farmchoice

amtaxi wrote: »

Recently discovered that a member of staff in my childrens school is "Friends" with a large number of the children in school on facebook. They also communicate with the children via facebook.
Believing this is highly inappropriate (to put it mindly) I contacted the department of education and after much passing "from billy to jack" discovered that they have no policy regarding teachers communicating with children via social media or phone/text. - apparently it's up to each individual school what their policies are :eek:
I consider this to be a very serious child protection issue - have we learned nothing from our past mistakes.
How does everyone else feel about this?
Do you know what the policy is in your children's school?

It would only be a child protection issue if you had good reason to believe the teacher in question posed a threat to the children.

Do you have reason to believe such a thing? If you do go straight to the guards.
If you do not stop being so hysterical. You say in a later post that you were being fobbed off by the school and that was why you called the department. I can guess why they were fobbing you off, because the above post makes you come across as a complete crank.

Mind your own children and let others mind theirs.

amtaxi

farmchoice wrote: »

It would only be a child protection issue if you had good reason to believe the teacher in question posed a threat to the children.

Do you have reason to believe such a thing? If you do go straight to the guards.
If you do not stop being so hysterical. You say in a later post that you were being fobbed off by the school and that was why you called the department. I can guess why they were fobbing you off, because the above post makes you come across as a complete crank.

Mind your own children and let others mind theirs.

I am not a crank! As for minding my own children, thank you I do. As for "let others mind theirs" thankfully there are many people who in this country such as Barnardos who like me also care for ALL children, even if there not my own

Perhaps you should have a look at their website - or perhaps they are "Cranks" also.

Here's just a little piece

Child Abuse

All children deserve to grow up in an environment free from harm and abuse and for their childhood to be cherished and enjoyed. Children and young people are among the most vulnerable members of our society, and that is why it is a societal responsibility to ensure our laws, policies and services offer the best protection to insulate them from those who would exploit or harm them. However, unfortunately child abuse does occur and can take may forms including neglect, physical, emotional and sexual abuse.
Key Statistics

• There were 2,164 confirmed incidents of child abuse reported to HSE in 2008, this was an increase from 1,978 in 2007 and 1,797 in 2006.
• 80% of children are abused by someone known to them – abusers are fathers, mothers, male relatives or family friends or those in authority (i.e. teacher, coach, priest, etc)
• Over 3,500 crimes against children on average are being reported to gardaí every year, but less than a fifth of these are resulting in a court prosecution, and just one in ten of all cases have ended in a conviction to date.
• One in three women and one in four men reported some level of sexual abuse in childhood.
• Most sexual abuse in childhood and adolescence occurred in the prepubescent period, with two-thirds (67%) of abused girls and 62% of abused boys having experienced abuse by twelve years of age

If you don't care fine - but don't knock me or suggest that I'm being hysterical because I do.

byhookorbycrook

But the communication is written,so any parent can check and read.

amtaxi

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

But the communication is written,so any parent can check and read.

Unless of course you have a young girl who is delighted with the attention and told to delete message so her parents don't see ....

but I suppose that would never happen.... afterall a child abuser would never try to convince a child that "it would be their secret" or anything like that....

It must be just me being hysterical...

byhookorbycrook

Children under 13 are not legally supposed to be on facbook. I'd imagine a child older than this would be on facebook in somewhere like the kitchen, as is advised by all the keeping children safe on the net seminars/lectures.

If you don't trust your child's teachers, the least of your worries would be the net, the school day would be of much greater concern.

CrazyRabbit

amtaxi wrote: »

Key Statistics

• There were 2,164 confirmed incidents of child abuse reported to HSE in 2008, this was an increase from 1,978 in 2007 and 1,797 in 2006.
• 80% of children are abused by someone known to them – abusers are fathers, mothers, male relatives or family friends or those in authority (i.e. teacher, coach, priest, etc)
• Over 3,500 crimes against children on average are being reported to gardaí every year, but less than a fifth of these are resulting in a court prosecution, and just one in ten of all cases have ended in a conviction to date.
• One in three women and one in four men reported some level of sexual abuse in childhood.
• Most sexual abuse in childhood and adolescence occurred in the prepubescent period, with two-thirds (67%) of abused girls and 62% of abused boys having experienced abuse by twelve years of age

For perspective, there are about 1.2 million children in Ireland.
2,164 cases = 0.018% of children. Of course, it's likely there are more case not reported, and even 1 case is 1 case too many. But just wanted to highlight how unfounded such fears about sexual abuse are. It is, thankfully, extremely rare according to the HSE statistics.

implausible

amtaxi wrote: »

80% of children are abused by someone known to them – abusers are fathers, mothers, male relatives or family friends or those in authority (i.e. teacher, coach, priest, etc)

And why is that? Simple - access. People known to the child have access, trust and opportunity. Why would a potential abuser, known to the child, use a public site like Facebook? From a child protection point of view, following this logic, children should not be friends with neighbours, cousins or uncles on Facebook. Children can also be abused by parents. Does this mean that parents shouldn't be friends with their kids on Facebook?

Children spend a huge amount of every day with teachers. They go on overnight trips, get kept in on detention and are trained in teams by them and yet, you consider Facebook to be a greater risk?

This calculation of risk makes no sense to me.

rainbowtrout

amtaxi wrote: »

Unless of course you have a young girl who is delighted with the attention and told to delete message so her parents don't see ....

but I suppose that would never happen.... afterall a child abuser would never try to convince a child that "it would be their secret" or anything like that....

It must be just me being hysterical...

Why do you keep focusing on the child abuse angle rather than the perhaps unprofessional approach of the teacher?

Being friends with 280 children your facebook page doesn't exactly make it a secret.

You've mentioned 'communication' on the facebook page several times. What exactly is the context of the communication? I'm not particularly interested in whether you think it's appropriate or not, but it would seem to me that if a teacher has a FB page with 280 students from their school on it, out of 300 people that the profile was specifically set up with a school related purpose in mind, but they probably haven't gone about it in the right way.

Surely I would imagine given the law of averages on the number of people have as facebook friends, that if this was the teacher's own personal facebook page that there would be a lot more adults on it??

LashingLady

I'm the mother of two small children, and also spent some time teaching in the VEC.

I can't believe the OP is being accused of overreacting. Teachers being friends with their students on Facebook is completely inappropriate and unprofessional. Some teachers have said it would broach on their own personal space, but it would also open themselves up to the risks that go with inappropriate contact with students.

There may not be a specific policy on Facebook within the Dept of Education but there is definiltey a policy around boundaries that would be applied here.

I would suggest to the OP that you speak to the principle of the school and let them know in no uncertain terms that you consider this wholly inappropriate. After that I would be speaking to the Board of Management which includes other parents.

Just out of curiousity, are there any parents of school age or younger children who think this is appropriate / ok / a matter for the teacher themselves? Before being accused of using the patronising "You wouldn't understand you dont' have children", in this case, you obviosuly don't understand.....

spurious

I would agree with LashingLady - it's completely unprofessional and inappropriate.

I have had students ask me to be friends on Facebook and have rejected them all. I do it to their face and explain why. Some of them take it quite badly, as if it is an actual rejection of them, so I have to be careful.

I have some past pupils as friends - all of them now aged over 35 or so.

CrazyRabbit

spurious wrote: »

I would agree with LashingLady - it's completely unprofessional and inappropriate.

I have had students ask me to be friends on Facebook and have rejected them all. I do it to their face and explain why. Some of them take it quite badly, as if it is an actual rejection of them, so I have to be careful.

I have some past pupils as friends - all of them now aged over 35 or so.

Are you a danger to your current students?

Caraville

Not a parent but I am a teacher. I would absolutely not be friends with any of my pupils on facebook. In fact when I got the job I'm in now, I was already friends with a few pupils on facebook through a mutual hobby. Lovely girls but I just sent them a message to say "look girls, because I'm going to be teaching in your school, I'm just going to unfriend ye for now". I wasn't even teaching those girls, they just happened to attend the school I'm in. They absolutely understood my position.

I did it for a few reasons, which are the same reasons I'm not friends with any of my pupils:
1. They're teenagers. No matter how much you get on with them, in the middle of chats with their friends, they may mention something they saw on my page. Plus they would have access to my photos, which I just wouldn't be comfortable with.
2. I don't particularly have any interest on being friends with teenage girls. Why any teacher would want to know what they get up to in great detail is beyond me (besides getting depressed at their use of bad spelling, grammar and general teenage ridiculousness). I'm already friends with some teenage cousins on facebook and the stuff they put up can be facepalm-inducing enough, why would I want to add to the volume of that type of crap?
3. Being friends with your students on facebook is leaving you wide open to all sorts of accusations and assumptions- as is clear from many of the comments here so far. I'm sure almost all teachers who are friends with their students on facebook are completely innocent of any wrongdoing, but at best you are a very naive teacher if you think that being friends with your students is professional behaviour.

In conclusion- I'm not friends with my students on facebook because it protects ME, not them.

byhookorbycrook

Here's an idea,have your child unfriend the teacher,sorted.

prettygurrly

i think people who are accusing the OP of over reacting are missing the point. the point is that schools dont have a policy over FB use and friendships between students and teachers. the teacher in question is probably perfectly fine but the problem is that no one knows for sure. during the school day students dont spend any completely alone time with students because it sets them up for accusations of wrong doing. I can't think of a single time when i was in a room with a teacher and the door was closed. as a volunteer with kids in homework group i was always told, leave the door open at all times...

however, facebook private chats dont give anyone the opportunity to "leave the door open". as someone rightly said, the teacher or whatever adult could just tell the student to delete the conversation after it's finished. it's sad that we are suspicious of everyone but that is the situation we're in after the last 80 years of institutional and church abuse.

if a teacher feels the need to post notes online, share videos etc. then there are sites out there that have been mentioned already, there's no need for FB.

Finally, parents can only monitor their kids so much. There's the FB app for smartphones, internet cafes etc. if you're kid really wants to be unmonitored then they can be. if your kid is 14, they're old enough to go down town, have a smart phone but also young enough to be duped into thinking that someone isn't grooming them.

this is an important issue and it's surprising that schools aren't more up to speed on protocol.