Occupy Dame Street encampment dismantled by Gardaí

Permabear

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20Cent

Phase 2 starting as we speak, you can't dismantle ideas.

qz

20Cent wrote: »

Phase 2 starting as we speak, you can't dismantle ideas.

I dunno, those ideas look pretty dismantled to me.

Daveaherne

I think i was right to move them on, they were asked to move for paddys day. what has happened has hurt us as a people, paddys day is about being proud to be irish again. it is also a great chance to show we are open for business again. and a great place to do it

seamus

Just can't believe it took so long. As I said on AH, if travellers had set up camp on college green last October, they would have been lifted out of it well in advance of Xmas. I don't know why this illegal campsite was given such leeway.

Maybe the Government were giving it time for the "protest" to become completely irrelevant. If they tried to move them too early, it might get more support for them.

BOHtox

20Cent wrote: »

Phase 2 starting as we speak, you can't dismantle ideas.

They had ideas? As in alternatives? What? When I was ever talking to them I thought that they were a bunch of self-fulfilling idiots who could not give me one of their goals.

Chucky the tree

20Cent wrote: »

Phase 2 starting as we speak, you can't dismantle ideas.

But they didn't really have any ideas in the first place.

20Cent

20Cent wrote: »

Phase 2 starting as we speak, you can't dismantle ideas.

"Don't build the slane bypass and damage newgrange!" is not a good ODS idea

Glad to see them gone, place looks much better again

Attabear

20Cent wrote: »

Phase 2 starting as we speak, you can't dismantle ideas.

I think if there were coherent and rational ideas being presented by the Occupy Movement from the beginning, it would have been far more successful.

Unfortunately, it seemed reasonable voices were often drowned out by agenda led fringe groups.

Permabear

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20Cent

So the one visual sign of resistance in Dublin against all that is happening in Ireland has been dismantled so that VIPs can sit on there and watch the Paddies day parade. This is something to be glad about!
Sneaking in at 3am blocking off the street to avoid photo's or video. Anyone who believes in democracy or freedom should be outraged.

mike65

As its an ideas based movement presumably Occupy really doesn't need to occupy anywhere.

Dr Galen

20Cent wrote: »

Phase 2 starting as we speak, you can't dismantle ideas.

to be perfectly honest, I think you and others here are confusing the rag tag band previously located on Dame St, with the much larger and arguably much more effective Occupy Wall St group.

While not totally sold on everything that the worldwide movement is standing for, and doing, the Irish occupy group really had turned into the usual professional protester types, and had really failed to capture the imagination or support of "Joe Public". Looking around the internet, at various message boards, social media etc, there really doesn't seem to be any popular support for them.

Contrast that with other protest groups that we have recently had in this country, and I think it just shows that Occupy Dame St just didn't pull it off. In 2008, we had scenes of nearly 15,000 pensioners marching through the city and protesting outside the Dail, protesting against the changes to the medical card system. Now that's people power!

They haven't had any effect upon the political landscape here, or the wider debate that I can see. In fact, they have been pretty much ignored by all sides.

20Cent

20Cent wrote: »

So the one visual sign of resistance in Dublin against all that is happening in Ireland has been dismantled so that VIPs can sit on there and watch the Paddies day parade. This is something to be glad about!
Sneaking in at 3am blocking off the street to avoid photo's or video. Anyone who believes in democracy or freedom should be outraged.

What about those of us, PERHAPS a majority of people (democracy eh) who wanted ODS moved?

So what does phase two for ODS involve then, 20cent? Getting a job?

lobes

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

The Central Bank confirmed it asked gardai to move the campaigners.

" the bank confirms that it requested the garda to peacefully remove the occupiers and the encampment from the Central Bank plaza," a spokesman said.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/gardai-clear-occupy-protest-camp-084521530.html

Permabear

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BOHtox

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Then they continue to smoke weed at home and be a general nuisance to society somewhere else.

20Cent

Whats with all the glee at seeing a protest movement smashed (temporarily) up at 3am while roads are closed off to prevent filming in a democracy??
I think the occupy movement reflects the lack of engagement and action by others so this makes them mad at it.

Dr Galen

I try really hard not to do the Mod Thing in a thread I'm taking part in, but this is a wee exception

Lets keep things civil and not be resorting to silly Ad Homs and general slagging people.

Remember this is the Politics Forum

Cheers

DrG

source

20Cent wrote: »

So the one visual sign of resistance in Dublin against all that is happening in Ireland has been dismantled so that VIPs can sit on there and watch the Paddies day parade. This is something to be glad about!
Sneaking in at 3am blocking off the street to avoid photo's or video. Anyone who believes in democracy or freedom should be outraged.

Why?

It's illegal in this country to set up a temporary dwelling in a public place. In order to exercise your right to protest in this country you must obey the laws of this country. That is enshrined in our constitution.

They decided to protest in a manner which broke our laws, so they must face the sanctions that exist for breaking those laws. Which includes the removal of the temporary dwellings.

20Cent

20Cent wrote: »

Whats with all the glee at seeing a protest movement smashed (temporarily) up at 3am while roads are closed off to prevent filming in a democracy??
I think the occupy movement reflects the lack of engagement and action by others so this makes them mad at it.

I've been to lots of protests. You make your point and then you leave. You didn't make any point.. And you didn't leave.


Game over, I'm afraid. We've seen through ODS waffle from the very beginning. What do you think, another 18 months and we all would have jumped on board?

Nahhh

If you want that prestigious city centre office for ODS, yiz are just gonna have to save up like the rest of us

mike65

20Cent wrote: »

So the one visual sign of resistance in Dublin against all that is happening in Ireland has been dismantled so that VIPs can sit on there and watch the Paddies day parade. This is something to be glad about!
Sneaking in at 3am blocking off the street to avoid photo's or video. Anyone who believes in democracy or freedom should be outraged.

It was the only way to do it, quiet time to close the street so that if it kicked off there would be less chance of innocent bystanders getting dragged in to a melee and allowing the corpo to give the place a proper wash and brush up before rush hour.

later12

I spoke to some of them on the day they first set up there and got the sense that they were a group of profressional protestors, a sort of rent-a-crowd who've done everything from The Glen of the Downs to the Corrib Gas Protests to the M3 protest in Tara to their latest M3 protest /economics pun.

I do wonder how much some of them appreciate what really happened to bring about this crisis. That "1%" slogan certainly doesn't help their case.

However, I think the Occupy Dame Street protest can serve a beneficial purpose of reminding us of what has happened. Right now, we may not need reminders, but I think some sort of permanent installation ought to be erected at the Central Bank site.

Personally I think a publicly supported protest village could actually be an interesting idea, but perhaps a giant monument of the god Lugh wielding his spear forebodingly at a swarm of bankers in their hive might be adequately jingoist and symbolic to please everybody...

mike65

but I think some sort of permanent installation ought to be erected at the Central Bank site.

Personally I think a publicly supported protest village could actually be an interesting idea

A permanent protest is a failed protest!

The best reminder would be Ahern, Cowen, John Hurley and Patrick Neary in chains, alas...

Is mise le key

happyman81

20Cent wrote: »

So the one visual sign of resistance in Dublin against all that is happening in Ireland has been dismantled so that VIPs can sit on there and watch the Paddies day parade. This is something to be glad about!
Sneaking in at 3am blocking off the street to avoid photo's or video. Anyone who believes in democracy or freedom should be outraged.

Yeah, rush hour was really the time for this. Boo. Hiss.

Let's face it, the primary wish for people who were attached to this was to be dragged out, kicking and screaming in front of cameras. They were denied that. But that has nothing to do with freedom or democracy.

For Forks Sake

qz wrote: »

I dunno, those ideas look pretty dismantled to me.

That pic made me laugh, the lads look like they're after arriving in after a nice nights kip at home and they're going "I'm CERTAIN this is where we left the tents "

happyman81

For Forks Sake wrote: »

qz wrote: »

I dunno, those ideas look pretty dismantled to me.

That pic made me laugh, the lads look like they're after arriving in after a nice nights kip at home and they're going "I'm CERTAIN this is where we left the tents "

That's what cracked me up, there was capacity for a few dozen people or more, judging by the amount of tents, but I never saw more than a handful of people there, when I passed by.

Where the hell were they?

20Cent

Phones, laptops documents taken, people injured and one arrest. Private property taken, no court order, etc.

Should be of concern for those of us interested in freedom and democracy.

Dr Galen

Here? In Dublin?

Do you have a source for this?

For Forks Sake

20Cent wrote: »

Phones, laptops documents taken, people injured and one arrest. Private property taken, no court order, etc.

Should be of concern for those of us interested in freedom and democracy.

Link? Proof? Please?

Kinski

Dr Galen wrote: »

In 2008, we had scenes of nearly 15,000 pensioners marching through the city and protesting outside the Dail, protesting against the changes to the medical card system. Now that's people power!

People power of the "Don't take something off us, hit some other group!" variety. And that was over a friggin' means-test. Where were those pensioners when the monies for SNAs were cut? Oh, that's right, that didn't affect them...

20Cent

Dr Galen wrote: »

Here? In Dublin?

Do you have a source for this?

I know ye don't like videos but no other source yet.
Protesters describing what happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Z6yWW1uX3fg

kksaints

20Cent wrote: »

Phones, laptops documents taken, people injured and one arrest. Private property taken, no court order, etc.

Should be of concern for those of us interested in freedom and democracy.

Any proof?

For Forks Sake

20Cent wrote: »

I know ye don't like videos but no other source yet.
Protesters describing what happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Z6yWW1uX3fg

Oh look at the heroes of democracy with their faces covered.

Any actual proof?

delta_bravo

20Cent wrote: »

Phones, laptops documents taken, people injured and one arrest. Private property taken, no court order, etc.

Should be of concern for those of us interested in freedom and democracy.

Why would a court order be needed to remove trespassers?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Is mise le key

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Oh look at the heroes of democracy with their faces covered.

Any actual proof?

Ahh yes, but the faceless bondholders will have the riot police all masked up at their beckon call if things get hairy.

I really think that there are a lot of people on here with very little real life experience if they are astounded our police force would use less than permitted tactics & methods.

Are you guys serious that you dont beileve they would confiscate equipment etc & use excessive force & have the legalitys all cleaned up afterwards for them?

Come on please, ive seen it over & over again over the years, cops taking their numbers off their shoulder in front of me & doing what they want.

Its either Utter naivety or simply game playing to demand a link as proof, or it did not happen,

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

20Cent

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Oh look at the heroes of democracy with their faces covered.

Any actual proof?

If video of the people there isn't enough proof for you I don't know what is.

Maybe the Sindo will tell you about it on Sunday.

happyman81

20Cent wrote: »

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Oh look at the heroes of democracy with their faces covered.

Any actual proof?

If video of the people there isn't enough proof for you I don't know what is.

Maybe the Sindo will tell you about it on Sunday.

What if I. and some mates were there and made a video stating that ODSers were attacking guards? Would you say the same thing?

wexie

Is mise le key wrote: »

I really think that there are a lot of people on here with very little real life experience if they are astounded our police force would use less than permitted tactics & methods.

Are you guys serious that you dont beileve they would confiscate equipment etc & use excessive force & have the legalitys all cleaned up afterwards for them?

Nope, I fully believe that this happens and I'm not ashamed to say I applaud it in the fullest in some cases. There seem to be people that seem to think it's completely acceptable for 'protesters' to throw bricks, bottles, what have you at guards while 'trying to get their point accross' yet somehow it's not acceptable for a guard to give them a good 'seeing to' with a baton.

By all means guards should stay within the bounds of the law however the law in a lot of cases seems quite firmly slanted against the guards.

Until I see some people out protesting against that I'm perfectly happy to look the other way every so often.

And with regards to this particular incidence, barring a lack of credible witnesses and / or evidence none of us here will know whats really taken place. While the 'protesters' in the video will be quite happy throwing out accusations at the guards I suspect they'll be slightly less inclined to tell the general public what's actually happened and what the cause of 'police violence' (if any) might have been.

rosser44

You gotta lol at the attitudes of these protesters who do not follow the lawful directions of the Gardai and then complain about brutality and the use of force when they make the Gardai remove them and their unlawful temporary dwellings.
The Gardai are used to dealing with criminals who can be/are violent and will take all precautions to protect themselves and their collegues. These cries of brutality are a joke when you brought the situation upon yourselves. they cry out about justice and law yet think these standards do not apply to them.

Statistician

I just watched the video, and I just don't understand why the people of Ireland seem to be against the occupy movement.

Their four demands in the video seemed pretty reasonable to me.


Do people really think that what is happening at the moment (ie paying unsecured bond holders, nationalising bust banks, cutting services and increasing taxes to pay for it all, handing sovereignty over to the EU, etc, etc, etc...) is right?

I honestly don't get it.

Is mise le key

wexie wrote: »

Nope, I fully believe that this happens and I'm not ashamed to say I applaud it in the fullest in some cases. There seem to be people that seem to think it's completely acceptable for 'protesters' to throw bricks, bottles, what have you at guards while 'trying to get their point accross' yet somehow it's not acceptable for a guard to give them a good 'seeing to' with a baton.

.

As i said, very little real life experience, ive seen guards drag middle aged men that were not threatening in any way to the ground & kneel on their necks, ive seen guards kicking & punching 13 -14 year olds simply for being in the wrong place, ive seen a lot of excessive police force from unprovoking demonstrators.

Once the green light comes from the superintendent that they want anything broken up they will do it.

You dont have to resist to be hammered & if you dont think it happens, as ive said, very naive.

Valmont

Statistician wrote: »

I just watched the video, and I just don't understand why the people of Ireland seem to be against the occupy movement.

Their four demands in the video seemed pretty reasonable to me.


Do people really think that what is happening at the moment (ie paying unsecured bond holders, nationalising bust banks, cutting services and increasing taxes to pay for it all, handing sovereignty over to the EU, etc, etc, etc...) is right?

I honestly don't get it.

Just because some people aren't behind The Occupy movement and their associations with the far-left (ideologically speaking) doesn't mean they are in favour of the bank-bailouts or the centralisation of power being carried out by the EU.

wexie

Is mise le key wrote: »

As i said, very little real life experience, ive seen guards drag middle aged men that were not threatening in any way to the ground & kneel on their necks, ive seen guards kicking & punching 13 -14 year olds simply for being in the wrong place, ive seen a lot of excessive police force from unprovoking demonstrators.

Once the green light comes from the superintendent that they want anything broken up they will do it.

You dont have to resist to be hammered & if you dont think it happens, as ive said, very naive.

I think you're being rather presumptuous (not to say ignorant) to make any kind of judgement on what experience I may or may not have. However you obviously have a lot of experience 'protesting' and dealing with our law enforcement professionals.

I guess there's no point arguing with you as I doubt we'll agree on this.

Anyway.....some of us have work to do.

seamus

Is mise le key wrote: »

Its either Utter naivety or simply game playing to demand a link as proof, or it did not happen

That's not really what people are saying. A video of a few hysterical people, lots of them with their faces covered, making claims of being "bulldozed" out of it and banging on about legalities they don't seem to understand, doesn't constitute evidence.

The printout of the miscellaneous provisions act is a good example. One guy was claiming that it was being passed off as a warrant/court order. It clearly wasn't. It's simply a printout informing the protestors of the powers that the Gardai are exercising, namely the right to remove, without notice, any temporary dwelling which has not been removed after notice has been served.

No court order is required for this action, anyone attempting to block the Gardai are committing an offence and can be arrested and forcibly held if necessary. The council also has the right to confiscate the dwelling and all contents therein until someone comes forward to claim ownership of the dwelling.

These guys clearly haven't the slightest clue about their rights or the law in this case. As far as I can tell, the actions of the Gardai, including the confiscation of property, arrests and use of force to carry out the eviction, are justified and completely legal.

Is mise le key

wexie wrote: »

Anyway.....some of us have work to do.

As have i, my apologies if i insulted you.

Statistician

Valmont wrote: »

Just because some people aren't behind The Occupy movement and their associations with the far-left (ideologically speaking) doesn't mean they are in favour of the bank-bailouts or the centralisation of power being carried out by the EU.

The occupy movement is non-political.

Main stream media likes to portray it as a political movement, but it is not. Some of the protesters may be anti-capitalist and/or associated with the far-left, but other protesters may be lesbians, or disabled, or staunch capitalists etc...

I agree with them and I would regard myself as a very right-wing person. Nationalising bust banks has very little to do with capitalism. I'm anti-corruption.


Anyway, I believe you've answered my question. Public perception.

Dr Galen

Kinski wrote: »

People power of the "Don't take something off us, hit some other group!" variety. And that was over a friggin' means-test. Where were those pensioners when the monies for SNAs were cut? Oh, that's right, that didn't affect them...

Why the pensioners were protesting is a bit irrelevant to this thread tbh as it you linking it SNA cuts.

The point I was making is that, if a load of pensioners can gain enough popular support to have 15,000 odd people on a march, it shows ODS in a pretty poor light tbh.

Just looking at that video that 20cent posted, it looks like barely half a dozen people involved? Hardly a protest of the people is it?

20Cent wrote: »

If video of the people there isn't enough proof for you I don't know what is.

Maybe the Sindo will tell you about it on Sunday.

Come on, that video doesn't show evidence of any brutality or heavy handedness by the Gardai. It's a video of people apparently linked to to ODS camp, explaining their version of events. Thats not very reliable really

Kinski

Dr Galen wrote: »

Why the pensioners were protesting is a bit irrelevant to this thread tbh as it you linking it SNA cuts.

The point I was making is that, if a load of pensioners can gain enough popular support to have 15,000 odd people on a march, it shows ODS in a pretty poor light tbh.

I disagree with you there. Why they were protesting is relevant. ODS may have been a failure, but the success of those pensioners is an example of the challenges faced in any attempt to build a mass movement that can give voice to the concerns of the more marginalised members of Irish society.

We know that cuts are going to come somewhere, and that tax increases are going to hit somebody. The SNA cuts were just an example plucked from the top of my head (a pretty blatant instance of cuts being directed at the genuinely vulnerable), but these things are all interlinked. The success of one group in society going out to protest about the prospect of having to undergo a means test to get a medical card is just the sort of ad hoc, single-issue response to govt policy that undermines attempts to build a broader coalition.

This isn't about "having a go" at pensioners btw, but I'd prefer if the responses to such decisions came in the form of some more broad-based, at least somewhat coordinated protest movement, one which had a clear grasp of what constitutes an unjust cut, and what is merely a inconvenience that people may have to learn to live with.