Donald McCain

UrbanSea

...has lost all respect I had for him. Has made himself look like a serious twat after his weeks of talking up Peddlers' against Sprinter Sacre. I bet he'll place blame on the owners. Hope he is beaten out of sight in the Jewson.

culline

The likelihood will be that SS wins the Arkle easy and Peddlers puts up a good account of himself in the Jewson(if not win). Think the decision could be in the best interest of horse/trainer but is VERY disappointing not to see them clash, worsened with McCain's fighting talk!

UrbanSea

I have no problem with him going for the Jewson had he mentioned it before his hammering by SS. He was quick to make excuses for his defeat and consistently pointed back to them and was looking forward to getting closer to him at Cheltenham.

It rather reminds me of David Haye saying he'd knock out Klitchsko and then taking off his shoe and blaming his baby toe after the fight. He made himself look like a laughing stock.

kksaints

Doubt the owners would care too much if he won the Jewson. Still makes him look foolish tho for his mouthing off.

jimjamcos

Will there be any deductions on antepost Arkle bets now Peddlers is out? Does a Rule4 apply or anything?

UrbanSea

No jim, one of the benefits of ante post betting

hucklebuck

I am like a ****ing bear tonight, just had a blazing row with Powers and gave Mc Cain dogs abuse on twitter.

WHO NEXT, GRRRRRRRRR :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

hucklebuck

culline wrote: »

The likelihood will be that SS wins the Arkle easy and Peddlers puts up a good account of himself in the Jewson(if not win). Think the decision could be in the best interest of horse/trainer but is VERY disappointing not to see them clash, worsened with McCain's fighting talk!

He is a laughing stock, going on about injury again. If the horse is not right don't run him at all.

kksaints

hucklebuck wrote: »

I am like a ****ing bear tonight, just had a blazing row with Powers and gave Mc Cain dogs abuse on twitter.

WHO NEXT, GRRRRRRRRR :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Huntley?:pac:

hucklebuck

kksaints wrote: »

Huntley?:pac:

No it has to be someone who cost me money and he tried make me money, anyway I think I am on ignore :P

mdwexford

Genuinely surprised by that decision.

If they are that scared of one horse they might as well have stayed hurdling.

ipitydafool

UrbanSea wrote: »

I have no problem with him going for the Jewson had he mentioned it before his hammering by SS. He was quick to make excuses for his defeat and consistently pointed back to them and was looking forward to getting closer to him at Cheltenham.

It rather reminds me of David Haye saying he'd knock out Klitchsko and then taking off his shoe and blaming his baby toe after the fight. He made himself look like a laughing stock.

+1. D McCain has made a tit out himself with the way he has gone about this. He has said from the start of Peddlers novice chasing career his race aim was Arkle and as you say Urban even after the Wayward he still had it down as his aim and how he would give SS a better race and he was below par etc. As far as i can see the Jewson has only come in McCain's vocab in last week. I actually think the Jewson plays to Peddlers strengths and If flagged as a proper potential target along with Arkle further back it wouldn't look like what is at the moment, McCain coping out and afraid to take on SS.

Wishful Thinking

Paddy Power will be laughing his hole off at all those who dived in quickly with their Arkle offer, they didn't go NRNB till Saturday. Plenty of dust already won methinks

Nulty

mdwexford wrote: »

Genuinely surprised by that decision.

If they are that scared of one horse they might as well have stayed hurdling.

I can't believe they are afraid of Sprinter Sacre. And anyway, the Jewson is a Grade 2 now but it will be a grade 1 in two years just like the Ryanair. Maybe McCain is bull****ting and dodging SS but I find it hard to believe.

Some think he should go back hurdling. He may do after Cheltenham.

mdwexford

The Jewson is a handicap though, it will never be a Grade 1 unless it undergoes major changes.

I cant see any other reason to switch to it other than they think hes not up to challenging in the Arkle.

mccarte2

mdwexford wrote: »

The Jewson is a handicap though, it will never be a Grade 1 unless it undergoes major changes.

I cant see any other reason to switch to it other than they think hes not up to challenging in the Arkle.

You sure its a handicap?

kiers47

Jewson used to be a handicap changed it last year i believe Noble Prince was the first winner of the current race.

*Correction im not sure now as RP site is down but the race that Jewson used to sponsor is now the Centenary Handicap Chase on the first day. The Jewson is a new race since last year. Not 100% on this though.

mdwexford

Yeah what kiers said is right.

Jewson transferred their sponsorship to a new race last year that Noble Prince won.

The old Jewson is now the Centenary Novices Handicap Chase.

Cant see the new Jewson getting Grade 1 status anytime soon though, festival is watered down enough as it is these days.
Three days was better rabble rabble etc

eoghan_85

Don't know what the old Jewson used to be but the current one definitely isn't a handicap - from what I can see it's the Jewson Novices Chase or Golden Miller Novices Chase.
D McCain is a dirty rotten %&*£ and I hope Peddlers Cross never wins another race. A disgrace to his family legacy.

klairondavis

McCain will be pilloried for this and rightly so. If he's so concerned about the lack of schooling then surely the horse shouldn't go to Cheltenham at all. He'll have more fences to jump in the Jewson and although they will not go the gallop they go in the Arkle, they'll hardly be hanging around either.

He's clearly running scared of Sprinter Sacre.

kiers47

This thread is surely unproductive and unnecessary. McCain is surely perfectly within his right to send the horse to whatever race he wants. If he thinks the Jewson is winnable then why not have a crack. TBH if i had the horse i would go for the Jewson too. He has said that in the greater scheme of things the GC is the long term goal provided he stays. So why give him a hopeless task 2 years in a row. No point in breaking the horses confidence. I understand he said that the target was the Arkle. Targets dont always work out. Ante-Post betting is at your own risk and trainers should be entitled to do whatever they want with their horses(within reason).

mdwexford

Not sure why people are getting so annoyed over this.

klairondavis

mdwexford wrote: »

Not sure why people are getting so annoyed over this.

The Arkle (have no bet in it myself btw) was shaping up to be one of the most intruiging races of the festival but has lost some of its gloss now. McCain is perfectly entitled to go for whatever race he wants but the first mention he made of the Jewson was last week. Before that he was telling anyone who'd listen that his horse was wrong at Kempton and that he was eagerly anticipating the rematch.

Cheltenham management also need to take some of the blame for their greedy additions of all these extra races dilluting the quality of the Championship races.

mdwexford

klairondavis wrote: »

The Arkle (have no bet in it myself btw) was shaping up to be one of the most intruiging races of the festival but has lost some of its gloss now. McCain is perfectly entitled to go for whatever race he wants but the first mention he made of the Jewson was last week. Before that he was telling anyone who'd listen that his horse was wrong at Kempton and that he was eagerly anticipating the rematch.

Cheltenham management also need to take some of the blame for their greedy additions of all these extra races dilluting the quality of the Championship races.

I agree in that it was the race I was most looking forward to at this years festival and I also hate the crappy races that have no place at the meeting that have come in over the past few years but as you say he is entitled to do what he likes and if he has come to the realisation that his horse might not even place in what is looking a vintage Arkle then he is within his rights to go for an easier option.

I suspect a lot of people are angry over lost bets but that is one of the perils of ante post unfortunately.

kiers47

You can hardly consider a Grade 2 Novice Chase a crappy race. IMO there was need for a 2 and 1/2mile novice race at the festival. Last years race was a great race to watch, with the champ out battling Dickie Johnson up the hill.

Rhinestone Cowboy

The new Jewson will be a grade 1 in two years time. I thought they hinted at going for it after Kempton. I can feel sorry for punters if he was being supplemented or something but if the horse has double (or in the case quadruple) entries you cant be complaining if it is redirected to something other than the obvious race. The clue would be in the multiple entries. Phil Smith was very dismissive of Peddlers at the previews. Said his form over fences didnt amount to much at all.

Rhinestone Cowboy

Maybe wrong thread but Paul Jones has an interesting view on the old Jewson which is now capped at 140. Basically says to ignore the weights and look for best horse because spread of horses making the cut is so narrow.

Colonel Sanders

A bit ridiculous that a G2 has no penalty structure

Surely the cheltenham executive trying it's best to get good horses to run in another of their unnecessary races.

Bring back 3 days!

kfallon

hucklebuck wrote: »

I am like a ****ing bear tonight, just had a blazing row with Powers and gave Mc Cain dogs abuse on twitter.

WHO NEXT, GRRRRRRRRR :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Are you the guy Buckley who gave him all the abuse on Twitter?

Fair play if you did!

McCain was one of my favourite trainers but he has disgraced himself here and I won't be backing many of his horses again. I have followed Peddler's Cross since his bumper win and he was one of my fav horses in training but all that changed last night, part of me wants to see him hammered in the Jewson now!

UrbanSea

Lads how do I see posts made to him on twitter? I can just see his tweets

kfallon

mdwexford wrote: »

Not sure why people are getting so annoyed over this.

Check out the 'Donald McCain' thread in the Cheltenham section of the BF Forum, people have dug up numerous quotes from him over the past couple of months about how The Arkle is the plan, he's all set for the rematch, he's done terrific work, we're not scared of anyone! No mention of the Jewson apart from immediately after the Kempton race and he quickly put that to bed by saying days after it that The Arkle was the plan again for Peddlers.

If he had said all along, "He's in both and we'll decide nearer the time" then everything would have been ok but he's been hell bent on telling anyone who would listen over the past couple of months that The Arkle is the plan and now he's backtracked. He's made himself look a right tit and I think this episode will taint (and haunt) him for years to come.

The horse ran the best NH hunt horse since Istabraq to a length last year over 2m, why is he running scared of a horse who couldn't even win a Supreme last March?

mccarte2

A huge amount of excrement being spouted here. Too many lads talking through their wallets.

McCain can run the horse in whatever race he wants. No matter how many times he spoke about the Arkle he said it was the plan. Plans can change you know. If he ran PC in the Arkle he may feels he could ruin the horses career. But that doesn't matter to the lads with a score each way on him.

For what it's worth I had backed PC myself before he even jumped a fence at 7/1 for the Arkle. But that's the joys of Ante Post gambling. You've no control and there's no point losing the rag or pointing the finger of blame at the trainers door when things don't work out as you'd hoped.

McCain is one of the most honest trainers out there which is a rare enough trait. Any of you who've been involved in horses would know that a huge amount of horse trainers are as crooked as they come. At least he's had the decency to announce it now rather than waiting for it to come out at final declaration stage.

But then again, the lads who've probably never seen a horse gallop in real life abusing him on Twitter or claiming he's ruined his family legacy probably know more about horses than he does :rolleyes:

UrbanSea

It doesn't bother me which race he goes for as I haven't backed him, it was the manner in which he conducted himself since Peddlers' defeat at Christmas. Do you disagree that he's made himself look like he's shying away from Sprinter Sacre and that he went about this the right way?

kfallon

mccarte2 wrote: »

A huge amount of excrement being spouted here. Too many lads talking through their wallets.

McCain can run the horse in whatever race he wants. No matter how many times he spoke about the Arkle he said it was the plan. Plans can change you know. If he ran PC in the Arkle he may feels he could ruin the horses career. But that doesn't matter to the lads with a score each way on him.

For what it's worth I had backed PC myself before he even jumped a fence at 7/1 for the Arkle. But that's the joys of Ante Post gambling. You've no control and there's no point losing the rag or pointing the finger of blame at the trainers door when things don't work out as you'd hoped.

McCain is one of the most honest trainers out there which is a rare enough trait. Any of you who've been involved in horses would know that a huge amount of horse trainers are as crooked as they come. At least he's had the decency to announce it now rather than waiting for it to come out at final declaration stage.

But then again, the lads who've probably never seen a horse gallop in real life abusing him on Twitter or claiming he's ruined his family legacy probably know more about horses than he does :rolleyes:

How so?

Colonel Sanders

I think the allegation he's chicken is ludicrous

If anything maybe he's guilty of misleading people and it's very frustrating when it happens. I'd be annoyed if I did my dough too

However to say the "real reason" is he's running scared of SS is nonsense

UrbanSea

Wouldn't say it's nonsense. If you aren't 100% happy you don't run him in the festival.

mccarte2

UrbanSea wrote: »

It doesn't bother me which race he goes for as I haven't backed him, it was the manner in which he conducted himself since Peddlers' defeat at Christmas. Do you disagree that he's made himself look like he's shying away from Sprinter Sacre and that he went about this the right way?

If I spent all my time trying to second guess why someone did something, I don't think I'd have the most productive of lives Urban!

He's done what he feels is the right thing, and as the horses trainer there's damn all the rest of us can do about it only accept his decision and move on.

mccarte2

kfallon wrote: »

How so?

He mentioned the slower pace of the Jewson being more suitable. Possibly afraid he might do long term damage by running in the Arkle.

UrbanSea

I understand that, I was just saying I don't believe his excuse for not running in the Arkle

Colonel Sanders

Or you take the softer option if you think he hasn't schooled enough to take on the best novices over 2m at break neck pace

As I said I think he did mislead people & that could be the source of punters annoyance.

He kept a point to pointer who they hoped would develop into a gold cup contender over hurdles at 2m to take on an impressive champion hurdler & a talking horse from ireland. That doesn't strike me as the behaviour of someone who's into ducking horses

Yes he probably should've kept his mouth shut and the usual ****e of the exchanges being 1st to know rared it's ugly head again but I don't buy he's afraid of SS

UrbanSea

Something that doesn't add up.

If he doesn't have him where he wants him, why would he even go to the festival? Why risk his stable star for a race that has 50k to the winner considering they want him to be a Gold Cup horse in the future?

If that's true, that means his explanation for missing the Arkle doesn't make particular sense. He hardly thinks the Jewson is going to be a crawl

kfallon

mccarte2 wrote: »

He mentioned the slower pace of the Jewson being more suitable. Possibly afraid he might do long term damage by running in the Arkle.

It didn't do any harm to Kicking King or War of Attrition. Kauto was due to run in The Arkle until he got injured, Best Mate was an intended runner too until foot & mouth intervened! And it was ok to run the horse in a Champion Hurdle rather than the stayers hurdle last year!

Something really doesn't add up here!

premierstone

UrbanSea wrote: »

Something that doesn't add up.

If he doesn't have him where he wants him, why would he even go to the festival? Why risk his stable star for a race that has 50k to the winner considering they want him to be a Gold Cup horse in the future?

If that's true, that means his explanation for missing the Arkle doesn't make particular sense. He hardly thinks the Jewson is going to be a crawl

What relevance doies prizemoney have to anything, people were on here last week saying that Pipe was a greedy so and so only interested in prizemoney if he went the GC route with Grand Crus, looks to me as if trainers cant win.

premierstone

mccarte2 wrote: »

A huge amount of excrement being spouted here. Too many lads talking through their wallets

Nail on the head

UrbanSea

premierstone wrote: »

What relevance doies prizemoney have to anything, people were on here last week saying that Pipe was a greedy so and so only interested in prizemoney if he went the GC route with Grand Crus, looks to me as if trainers cant win.

That wasn't the main point of my post.
You seemed to ignore the general message, of why would he risk a potential Gold Cup horse if he isn't 100% happy with him

Goldcupfav

UrbanSea wrote: »

It doesn't bother me which race he goes for as I haven't backed him, it was the manner in which he conducted himself since Peddlers' defeat at Christmas. Do you disagree that he's made himself look like he's shying away from Sprinter Sacre and that he went about this the right way?

Surely it does bother you a little when you have Champion Court backed for the Jewson ante post.

UrbanSea wrote: »

**** that. I'll be raging if he goes for the Jewson, backed Champion Court.

Just shows how much of a twat McCain has been, saying we haven't seen the real Peddler's. If he is afraid to take on Sprinter Sacre then my suspicions have been confirmed. We saw the real horse, he was looking at SS's backside at Kempton.

Nulty

mdwexford wrote: »

Yeah what kiers said is right.

Jewson transferred their sponsorship to a new race last year that Noble Prince won.

The old Jewson is now the Centenary Novices Handicap Chase.

Cant see the new Jewson getting Grade 1 status anytime soon though, festival is watered down enough as it is these days.
Three days was better rabble rabble etc

Of course it will become a Grade 1 if horses rated as high as Peddlers Cross are running in it all the time. Obviously there won't be 160 rated novices every year but it will eventually become a Grade 1

UrbanSea

Goldcupfav wrote: »

Surely it does bother you a little when you have Champion Court backed for the Jewson ante post.

I was probably a bit quick to say that. I'd be more worried about Solix or Cristal Bonus than PC to be honest based on form.

mdwexford

kiers47 wrote: »

You can hardly consider a Grade 2 Novice Chase a crappy race. IMO there was need for a 2 and 1/2mile novice race at the festival. Last years race was a great race to watch, with the champ out battling Dickie Johnson up the hill.

Its a new race so I wont be too quick too judge but the Albert Bartlett is a Grade 1 hurdle and its awful. 2.5 miles is a bit of an inbetween distance really for horses not good enough for the more prestigious races, imo.

kfallon wrote: »

Check out the 'Donald McCain' thread in the Cheltenham section of the BF Forum, people have dug up numerous quotes from him over the past couple of months about how The Arkle is the plan, he's all set for the rematch, he's done terrific work, we're not scared of anyone! No mention of the Jewson apart from immediately after the Kempton race and he quickly put that to bed by saying days after it that The Arkle was the plan again for Peddlers.

If he had said all along, "He's in both and we'll decide nearer the time" then everything would have been ok but he's been hell bent on telling anyone who would listen over the past couple of months that The Arkle is the plan and now he's backtracked. He's made himself look a right tit and I think this episode will taint (and haunt) him for years to come.

The horse ran the best NH hunt horse since Istabraq to a length last year over 2m, why is he running scared of a horse who couldn't even win a Supreme last March?

Yeah he shouldnt have been so bullish but big deal, its his stable star, maybe he didnt want to back down at first but now hes seen sense?

Nulty wrote: »

Of course it will become a Grade 1 if horses rated as high as Peddlers Cross are running in it all the time. Obviously there won't be 160 rated novices every year but it will eventually become a Grade 1

Peddlers Cross mark is much too high imo.
Eventually it might but it will never carry as much prestige as the Arkle or RSA.

Nulty

kfallon wrote: »

It didn't do any harm to Kicking King or War of Attrition. Kauto was due to run in The Arkle until he got injured, Best Mate was an intended runner too until foot & mouth intervened! And it was ok to run the horse in a Champion Hurdle rather than the stayers hurdle last year!

Something really doesn't add up here!

Did KS not run in the Arkle and fall?

UrbanSea

That was the Champion I think Nulty