FIANNA FÁIL Ard Fheis

Sully

Thought some might be chatting about this considering the decline of the party in the year gone by. Its the first proper get together since the fall of the party. Its mostly an older crowd, very little youth. Present also is Bertie Ahern and Gary Redmond (USI President, who has protested against FF and is in court action over one of their cuts).

So far from what I have picked up on the radio
- FF have implemented 20+ bills, SF 3, FG/Lab 30+
- FF only true opposition
- FF lost votes to FG.
- Polls not a true reflection, there based on populist talk (:S)
- Swift action will be taken against those who are named in the Mahon Report due out very soon.
- There was a disconnect between the top down in the last year of the FF government but there is no disconnect now.
- Motions include support of gay marriage (something Young Fine Gael proposed at their conference), criticising the government for not yet holding the children's referendum, and a motion from Waterford that called on cuts to the RTE paywage.

They really think they will do well in the next election and that there is a lot of misconception out there that the party is gone. They think people want honest politicians and those with credible ideas, so that's why FF will do well.

Sully

It seems that whatever sized audience present for the Radio 1 coverage doesn't want Fianna Fail to campaign against the treaty. Bad news for O Cuiv.

Re; Redmond. I assume he is just a party member and supports them. Maybe he isn't running for USI again so he can come out of the closet.

later12

There is a pretty wide range of analysts and commentators attending and participating in the Fianna Fail Ard Fheis this weekend, but to watch boards.ie, one might be inclined to believe there is nothing happening but a group of people sitting around complaining about Lehman Bros and the 2011 General Election.

I've been following the coverage over the weekend, and I happen to think (whatever one thinks of Fianna Fail) that the Ard Fheis is a pretty interesting platform for debate on where the country is headed and on the kinds of social, political and economic policies we should be adapting from here on out. The economic seminar involving Colm McCarthy, Patricia Callan and Tony Foley this morning was particularly interesting.

Everybody knows that Fianna Fail screwed up. But a year has now passed, Fianna Fail is moving on; perhaps the most repetitive of commentators should move on too and recognize that despite what many people think of Fianna Fail, it is the largest opposition party in the Dail and took almost 1 in 5 of all first preference votes and whether one likes it or not, might well remain a significant political party.

There are very few constructive or rational critiques of policies that Fianna Fail have put forward throughout the past year, and at this Ard Fheis.

What we have instead are silly, one dimensional, knee jerk rejections of Fianna Fail as an organisation, despite its role in the dail.

Dismissing the main parliamentary opposition in such a reflexive way, and more importantly - dismissing alternative policies in this way - is not conducive to good nor considered governance. Good and careful governance is entirely what we need right now.

We have put Fianna Fail into opposition. If we are now saying we want a silent opposition, or won't listen to opposition policy suggestions, then we had better all hope that such selective deafness doesn't backfire.

Sully

I think there is a bit of "to little, to late". Fianna Fail are seen as robbing us blind for years, completely misleading us during elections, completely misleading us throughout their final term. All under different leaders, TDs and Ministers.

They got a firm kick up the backside, and now all of a sudden they decide to talk about proper policies, constructive opinions, firm dealing with those in mahon report etc.

This isn't the first time Fianna Fail ****ed us over. It probably wont be the last.

GSF

later12 wrote: »

Everybody knows that Fianna Fail screwed up. But a year has now passed, Fianna Fail is moving on; perhaps the most repetitive of commentators should move on too and recognize that despite what many people think of Fianna Fail, it is the largest opposition party in the Dail and took almost 1 in 5 of all first preference votes and whether one likes it or not, might well remain a significant political party.

They have started playing the victim. Sure we messed up but all this
nasty criticism of us is making it hard for us to walk down the street/ have a drink it the pub, etc Its sooo unfair.

It might help them feel better amongst themselves but nobody outside the 20% is buying it.

later12

I'm not the biggest fan of how Fianna Fail has conducted itself over the past 12 months, but an ad hominem attack on the party is pretty pointless, and so is defending the party from such an ad hominem attack.

If you want to knock their policies, fine; lets talk about policies. But I'm not doing to debate with someone who uses blanket terms like 'sociopaths', 'compulsive liars' and 'rotten' in this dull, repetitious way that has already been done to death over the past 18 months in particular.

200yrolecrank

later12 wrote: »

I'm not the biggest fan of how Fianna Fail has conducted itself over the past 12 months, but an ad hominem attack on the party is pretty pointless, and so is defending the party from such an ad hominem attack.

If you want to knock their policies, fine; lets talk about policies. But I'm not doing to debate with someone who uses blanket terms like 'sociopaths', 'compulsive liars' and 'rotten' in this dull, repetitious way that has already been done to death over the past 18 months in particular.

Sure 18 mths is it let's all forgive and forget they only destroyed a whole country for the next 30 yrs and I think your right well let it slip after 18mths.
You couldn't make this up of you tried

later12

200yrolecrank wrote: »

Sure 18 mths is it let's all forgive and forget

No, that's not what I said at all. You all seem to be following the coverage, so what did you think about the economic seminar this morning? or the women in politics discussion? or the debate on the future of political nationalism/ republicanism?

Coming on here and posting identical posts to those that have clogged up every Fianna Fail thread over the year is probably not the smartest way of discussing Ireland's political future.

woodoo

Yeah that was an interesting piece this morning with Foley, McCarthy and Callan. They give a few kicks to Fianna Fail when needed too. The Foley man was very good. Good discussion.

john reilly

Sully wrote: »

I think there is a bit of "to little, to late". Fianna Fail are seen as robbing us blind for years, completely misleading us during elections, completely misleading us throughout their final term. All under different leaders, TDs and Ministers.

They got a firm kick up the backside, and now all of a sudden they decide to talk about proper policies, constructive opinions, firm dealing with those in mahon report etc.

This isn't the first time Fianna Fail ****ed us over. It probably wont be the last.

no they werent that was the problem. we paid feck all taxes. got paid high wages and got ludicrous welfare payments. alot of which hasnt changed much

Dr Galen

Let us be very clear here.

This thread is for discussing the actual event, the discussions around the event (such as seminars etc) and the actual policy decisions or otherwise that come from the Ard Fheis.

It is not for having a rant about FF, and all the usual rabble rabble stuff that we get when FF are brought up. Despite the past FF have a place in the political landscape of this country, and as such should be discussed here in a more rational and intellectual manner than many of the posts I have deleted from this thread.

If you can't post in this thread in a constructive manner, then don't bother. No further warnings

Cheers

DrG

JonathanAnon

My comments were a DIRECT reference to the response of the FF rabble to Michael Martin's remarks tonight regarding "We made mistakes, and we are sorry"... But hey, you censor it whatever way you see fit.

BERBA

just wondering you an FF supporter Dr G?

Dr Galen

JonathanAnon wrote: »

My comments were a DIRECT reference to the response of the FF rabble to Michael Martin's remarks tonight regarding "We made mistakes, and we are sorry"... But hey, you censor it whatever way you see fit.

If you think that post is of the required standard/quality for this forum, then you are mistaken.

Debating Mod decisions in-thread is also something that isn't allowed. Please remember this in future.

You are here long enough and have enough posts to know both these things tbh

Cheers

DrG

Dr Galen

BERBA wrote: »

just wondering you an FF supporter Dr G?

Just for reference, in case anyone thinks I'm biased I'll answer this.

I'm not a supporter of FF and have been very critical of them and their policies. I think successive FF governments made huge errors and tbh I don't see much that they can do (in the medium term anyway) that would convince me that they have changed enough to be worthy of my vote.

Sully

Well, Micheal apologized for the mistakes and errors they made. Nice that they finally put their hands up. People still wont be happy though and will still moan about them, which is a fair point but at least respect that he had the balls to step up and say "Sorry". Not many in his position did or would have done.

I still don't think that its enough. A few motions, a few speeches and being constructive in government shouldn't be enough to consider them a decent party once again. Reform means out with the old and in with the new. Fianna Fail needs new blood, new leadership, new ideas and a firm policy of doing what it says. Fianna Fail have a chance to actually use their time out to grab the bull by the horns, radically shake up the party and offer a party that brings an honest approach to running this country which would make a serious threat to the current government but the remaining opposition.

I'm not sure that this event and the publicity around it made a difference to the anger and resintment in the public. I'm not sure if many, not on the same support scale they had anyway, will return their vote to Fianna Fail for a very long time. Which at that stage, might very well be new blood.

Michael was in the thick of the action which led us down the naughty path. It wasn't just our own personal crazy spending (which the Irish will never admit to!) which has damaged the country but the economic policies and ideas of a party that has so much corruption and greed in its roots and serving members. Saying one thing and actually doing it - are completely different.

GSF

Regarding the "apology" - it was the usual half apology - "never mind that others would have done things which would have made things even worse, we apologise" - CUE whooping crowd. Whoever is advising them re communication, is obviously being paid by the other parties.

The arrogance factor hasnt gone away yet. But well done to the great beloved leader. We know it cant be easy that some people still wont accept your version of the past and "move on" and pretend that it never happened.

Nok1a

Seems Martin has the full support of the party despite what happened this week.

Pretty selfish of ahern to turn up but hey that's the type of man he is. Fianna fail will never be able to move on from it's past if he keeps popping his head up

later12

I would personally agree that the apology is an irrelevance. I don't see why people should want an apology from the party for various reasons, not least because it doesn't change anything.

What does and can change, and what is important, is how Fianna Fail adapts its economic policy. Although I am not a fan of the new Treaty, I think it is very relevant that Fianna Fail has decided to argue in its favour, knowing full well that doing so could cause them to lose ground to Sinn Fein, because they feel (somewhat misguidedly) that it is the correct approach to secure economic stability.

That is a case of Fianna Fail possibly putting their popularity at a disadvantage to do what they feel is economically prudent. They may be wrong about the prudence, but I would consider such policy a new departure for the recent Fianna Fail party, and far more relevant than any apology.

mikemac1

They've always been strongly pro-Europe though, even going back to the days of Jack Lynch

Thinking back I can't remember them ever making a huge news story by opposing something from Europe.
I'm thinking of major issues like treaties, not rural deputies talking about small issues like septic tanks

[Jackass]

Their arrogance and sense of self importance, even still, makes my blood boil.

I don't buy this "ah sure lets move on now" tripe. His holliness Martin was a senior member of that Government for a decade, and their last three leaders have been an idiot / fall guy sandwiched between two cute slimey con men.

As for O Cuiv, he's just desperate for the leadership and saw this as an oppertunity to split the party and hopes the popular vote suports his view, thereby undermining martin and a "a told you so" campaign to get FF support behind him and unseat MM as leader. More deceptive rangling.

Liam Byrne

Nok1a wrote: »

Seems Martin has the full support of the party despite what happened this week.

Pretty selfish of ahern to turn up but hey that's the type of man he is. Fianna fail will never be able to move on from it's past if he keeps popping his head up

More history rewriting and "awwww poor us" crap ? Whether or not Ahern showed up, O'Dea was there and could well become second-in-command. That is nowhere near "moving on".

Sierra Oscar

Fantastic Ard Fheis, extremely positive atmosphere with members recognising that there is a lot of hard work to be done in order to renew the party - but the members are certainly up to the challenge.

Great to see some real policy discussions also.

Dob74

GSF wrote: »

Regarding the "apology" - it was the usual half apology - "never mind that others would have done things which would have made things even worse, we apologise" - CUE whooping crowd. Whoever is advising them re communication, is obviously being paid by the other parties.

The arrogance factor hasnt gone away yet. But well done to the great beloved leader. We know it cant be easy that some people still wont accept your version of the past and "move on" and pretend that it never happened.

Martin never said what he was sorry for.
Bank regulation?
House prices reaching unrealistic levels?
Bank gaurantee?
Laisez en faire ecomonic policy?
Poor health system?
Overpaid public servants?

What is he sorry for?
Listening to FF propagrandist John Walters on Newstalk this morning claiming that house prices would bounce back and with it FF popularity. If that what FF are dreaming of they should just give up now, its not going to happen. Just ring up Enda and admit defeat, end the civil war.

Dob74

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Fantastic Ard Fheis, extremely positive atmosphere with members recognising that there is a lot of hard work to be done in order to renew the party - but the members are certainly up to the challenge.

Great to see some real policy discussions also.

What policies are going to be different than Fine Gael's?

Sierra Oscar

Dob74 wrote: »

Listening to FF propagrandist John Walters on Newstalk this morning claiming that house prices would bounce back and with it FF popularity. If that what FF are dreaming of they should just give up now, its not going to happen. Just ring up Enda and admit defeat, end the civil war.

I wouldn't pay much notice to John Waters. The members realize support can only be gained with hard work, very few think it will just bounce back.

Liam Byrne

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Dob74 wrote: »

Listening to FF propagrandist John Walters on Newstalk this morning claiming that house prices would bounce back and with it FF popularity. If that what FF are dreaming of they should just give up now, its not going to happen. Just ring up Enda and admit defeat, end the civil war.

I wouldn't pay much notice to John Waters. The members realize support can only be gained with hard work, very few think it will just bounce back.

Did you even read what he wrote about house prices "bouncing back" to ridiculous levels (presumably an attempt to justify the wanton waste of an FF invention that is NAMA with its fictional LTEV)

Sierra Oscar

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Did you even read what he wrote about house prices "bouncing back" to ridiculous levels (presumably an attempt to justify the wanton waste of an FF invention that is NAMA with its fictional LTEV)

Yes I have read it - why do you think Waters is representative of the FF members?

He is a useless media hack with a very high opinion of himself. I listened to what he had to say during the panel discussion - meh.

Liam Byrne

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Did you even read what he wrote about house prices "bouncing back" to ridiculous levels (presumably an attempt to justify the wanton waste of an FF invention that is NAMA with its fictional LTEV)

Yes I have read it - why do you think Waters is representative of the FF members?

He is a useless media hack with a very high opinion of himself. I listened to what he had to say during the panel discussion - meh.

He was in good company so! Did anyone question why Martin's "new start" involved reinstalling an old-school FF liar and perjuror as one of his first actions, and point out that that act alone ensured that claims of "all changed" would be laughed at by anyone objective ?

BTW - I haven't a clue who is and isn't representative of FF - Callely ? Ahern ?O'Donoghue ? O'Dea ? In fact, I have no notion even what would represent them or their core values, other than looking after their cronies.

Sierra Oscar

Liam Byrne wrote: »

He was in good company so! Did anyone question why Martin's "new start" involved reinstalling an old-school FF liar and perjuror as one of his first actions, and point out that that act alone ensured that claims of "all changed" would be laughed at by anyone objective ?

I assume you were hot on the trail of Willie this weekend as per usual, williewatch?

Dob74 wrote: »

Martin never said what he was sorry for.
Bank regulation?
House prices reaching unrealistic levels?
Bank gaurantee?
Laisez en faire ecomonic policy?
Poor health system?
Overpaid public servants?

What is he sorry for?

Well he clearly apologised over the course of the weekend for the mismanagement of the boom and the subsequent economic woes that came about as a result of that.

Although he did defend the Bank Guarantee stating that it was the only viable option the government was presented with on that night, but apologised for the fact that it was necessary in the first instance.

Liam Byrne

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Liam Byrne wrote: »

He was in good company so! Did anyone question why Martin's "new start" involved reinstalling an old-school FF liar and perjuror as one of his first actions, and point out that that act alone ensured that claims of "all changed" would be laughed at by anyone objective ?

I assume you were hot on the trail of Willie this weekend as per usual, williewatch?

Why would I waste my time following that useless lying weasel ?

Sierra Oscar

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Why would I waste my time following that useless lying weasel ?

Well because you are notorious for having an obsession with Willie O'Dea to put it bluntly!

Dr Galen

Quality people.....quality

From the charter:

This is a Politics forum, not Liveline.

Certain standards of debate are expected, and will be enforced. Your posts must contribute to debate, not derail it or drag it into mob chanting.

Cheers

DrG

Liam Byrne

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Why would I waste my time following that useless lying weasel ?

Well because you are notorious for having an obsession with Willie O'Dea to put it bluntly!

I have "an obsession" with lots of low-life political characters who do completely unacceptable things; if your Ard Fheis had likewise and got rid of such individuals, then maybe you wouldn't have to focus so much on PR spin to try to look less objectionable ?

And yes, the fact that I'm living in an area where a fair few people think he's suitable for office does add some extra disgust from me.....although the amazing thing is that I know absolutely no-one who would even dream of voting for him, so I obviously choose relatively well from the tainted pool of locals.

watchingthepols

Nothing ever changes with Fianna Fail.

Usual faces at the Ard Feis trying to dress themselves up in new cloths.



Meanwhile, the people paying the price for the failed Fianna Fail Government are over at the Working Abroad Expo.



"AS HUNDREDS CONTINUE to queue outside the RDS to gain entry to the Working Abroad Expo, organisers have had to close the door to those without tickets."

john reilly

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I assume you were hot on the trail of Willie this weekend as per usual, williewatch?



Well he clearly apologised over the course of the weekend for the mismanagement of the boom and the subsequent economic woes that came about as a result of that.

Although he did defend the Bank Guarantee stating that it was the only viable option the government was presented with on that night, but apologised for the fact that it was necessary in the first instance.

the boom was the mismanagement

Sierra Oscar

john reilly wrote: »

the boom was the mismanagement

I guess I should have phrased that better - there was sustainable economic growth, which was exploited giving rise to the boom. The construction industry was allowed become the dominant engine of economic growth and we all know what happened as a result.

200yrolecrank

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

john reilly wrote: »

the boom was the mismanagement

I guess I should have phrased that better - there was sustainable economic growth, which was exploited giving rise to the boom. The construction industry was allowed become the dominant engine of economic growth and we all know what happened as a result.

Yepp Fianna Fail rode that train past the last stop and beyond to accommodate all their corrupt cronies and how should I say less than economically sound supporters.
My own brother was hoodwinked by a fianna fail minister on several occasions in a tender for a huge contract here.
My brother came over from the Uk with his team of engineers to an arranged appointment, he got the minister is called away twice line from his secretary and the third time was fobbed of with an advisor to the minister.
Amazingly the contract went to a constituent of the minister and at almost twice the cost of the Uk tender.
That's only one bit of corruption that I am personally aware of,the same fella was at this weeks ardheis.
I am the last member of my family still in Ireland and I will be leaving in another year as the prospects in mine and the good ladys career are hopeless,both working contracts with nothing at the end once they are finished.
I never benefited from the boom as I lived overseas but came back to a country that was rotten by the greed of fianna fail and their cronies.
I have watched for the past 3yrs the farce of Nama,the high pensions of rats fleeing the political class,no one being prosecuted for clear financial crimes and the lack of accountability.
Now we have some gobsh## leading fianna fail who was instremental in the whole creation of the mess and cannot claim to have hadchis hands tied,M Martin was a member of the cabinet and never stood up to stop the destruction of Irelands economy.

johnnyskeleton

later12 wrote: »

Coming on here and posting identical posts to those that have clogged up every Fianna Fail thread over the year is probably not the smartest way of discussing Ireland's political future.

How about this: the best thing for irelands political future is to get rid of fianna fail completely an utterly and to never even dignify them with the suggestion that they are a real party with real policies.

Just let them die, please.

By the way, didn't you admit before to being a ff supporter?

EDIT: just to clarify, in case my post is moderated out, I am making the very real, very serious point that people have very short memories when it comes to politics and what FF are doing at the moment is playing off that and tryig to make us forget. Writing off criticism of FFs past record as an ad hominem attack is to misunderstand what the ad hominem fallacy truly is and is a convenent way for FF to whitewash their past mistakes.

lucernarian

It still seems to be lost on people how successive generations of FF politicians have made mistakes on a raft of policy decisions and were willing to put their own self-interest first, even to the extent of corruption and bribery in the case of some of those politicians (not every member of FF as some of the crackpots on boards would have us believe). This is a clear systemic failure of a system of government and a political culture that has got its priorities wrong. There's nothing to my mind which says the gob****es on one side of the Dáil are going to perform much better than the other other (diminished) side of the Dáil!

I appreciate Michael Martin's calls for serious governmental change and reform but I feel he is the wrong man to bring it about. His words don't ring true when he spent so much time in that cabinet. I certainly don't think he had the support of nearly every member of Fianna Fáil at their Ard Fheis.

For people hoping that FF will simply self-immolate, it is a naive objective. Nothing will happen for the better in this country after the mess FF substantially contributed to, unless the conversations that take place like the ones in the RDS this week, actually happen. Society will not improve its circumstances unless we give up on the blame game.

Much good work at the Ard Fheis has been undermined though by Michael Martin's half-hearted apology and a papering up of the cracks with badly-worded "One man, one vote" proposals.

mikemac1

The makeup budget clearly had an effect.

Bertie looks very different to how I remember him, farmers red face on him

He wasn't like that when he was leader

Sierra Oscar

mikemac1 wrote: »

The makeup budget clearly had an effect.

Bertie looks very different to how I remember him, farmers red face on him

He wasn't like that when he was leader

He has probably laid off on the makeup now that he is not looking for any votes.

Liam Byrne

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

john reilly wrote: »

the boom was the mismanagement

I guess I should have phrased that better - there was sustainable economic growth, which was exploited giving rise to the boom. The construction industry was allowed become the dominant engine of economic growth and we all know what happened as a result.

Very true. FF exploited and fanned the flames of the bubble so that they could look after their cronies, and reap the unsustainable extra taxation income to facilitate their short-sighted giveaway budgets.

I presume this was acknowledged at the Ard Fheis and that all of the members present swore never to assist in a recurrence ?

jank

It is all well and good having workshops, policy discussion. Having a yarn or two is great but 99% of the public rightly or wrongly wont see that. They will see on the news the faces of Bertie, Cowen, Mary et all back at FF shin dig.

ALL of them have to go before anything will change. Martin should step down and hand it over to someone who is under 40.

Liam Byrne

mikemac1 wrote: »

Liam Byrne wrote: »

FF exploited and fanned the flames of the bubble....their short-sighted giveaway budgets.

I remember Fine Gael promising two thousand extra gardaí in 2007. There were other promises but that's the one I remembered

This site seems to have a list.
http://www.irishelection.com/2007/05/fine-gael-manifesto/
The list here promises 100,000 more medical cards and raising the pension to €300

Not sure if people call that a giveaway budget but they were anxious to spend, spend, spend if they got into power too


Did any party promise cuts? I don't remember any, it's possible someone did

My point anyway is give away budgets are something that all parties do.
Actually that's not true, give away manifestos are something that all parties do

I don't see how any of the above is relevant; my main point was highlighting who exactly exploited the bubble and whether that fact was accepted at the Ard Fheis, rather than the vague and mysterious passive phrasing used by one of their members.

I was also curious as to whether that fact was part of the whole "must never happen again" vibe - a vibe which, to an outsider, appeared to be focussed on and phrased regarding "effects on" FF rather than "actions by" FF.

What FG or anyone else may or may not have done does not excuse what FF did, and is a probably a discussion for a separate topic regarding FG's Ard Fheis.

if there's a discussion on a kid breaking a window, do you row in with "ah sure another kid might have broken it anyway" ?

I'm no defender of FG given the fact that they have proven themselves disinterested in honouring their promises with regard to sorting out FF's mess, but like I said, the thread title is specifically about FF Ard Fheis, no-one else's.

joseph brand

200yrolecrank wrote: »

Yepp Fianna Fail rode that train past the last stop and beyond to accommodate all their corrupt cronies and how should I say less than economically sound supporters.
My own brother was hoodwinked by a fianna fail minister on several occasions in a tender for a huge contract here.
My brother came over from the Uk with his team of engineers to an arranged appointment, he got the minister is called away twice line from his secretary and the third time was fobbed of with an advisor to the minister.
Amazingly the contract went to a constituent of the minister and at almost twice the cost of the Uk tender.
That's only one bit of corruption that I am personally aware of,the same fella was at this weeks ardheis.
I am the last member of my family still in Ireland and I will be leaving in another year as the prospects in mine and the good ladys career are hopeless,both working contracts with nothing at the end once they are finished.
I never benefited from the boom as I lived overseas but came back to a country that was rotten by the greed of fianna fail and their cronies.
I have watched for the past 3yrs the farce of Nama,the high pensions of rats fleeing the political class,no one being prosecuted for clear financial crimes and the lack of accountability.
Now we have some gobsh## leading fianna fail who was instremental in the whole creation of the mess and cannot claim to have hadchis hands tied,M Martin was a member of the cabinet and never stood up to stop the destruction of Irelands economy.

It seems that they have gotten off 'scot-free'. :mad:

FF hasn't changed one bit. But who could be surprised that they showed up with their 'brass necks', hoping that the electorate had forgotten what they did? Ahern, Cowen, Flynn and O'Dea should have stayed at home. That's not fair, they should have ALL stayed at home.

Why did it look like there was nobody under 60 in the audience?

Greyjoy

Is it not a bit rich of FF to criticise the existing government for not yet holding a children's referendum as if they themselves hadn't been in power for the past twenty years or so? Ireland signed the UN treaty on children's rights back in '92 and ever since then FF dragged its heels over a children's referendum.

dory

Anyone know who made the committee of 20? I'm not one to be bothered about the inner workings of that shower. But I know someone who was running and I'm curious.

later12

http://www.fiannafail.ie/news/entry/8117/

Michael Smyth Monaghan

Henry Cleary Mayo

James Lawless Kildare North

Garrett Greene Clare

Sarah Ryan Dublin South East

Catherine Ardagh Dublin South Central

Leonie O’Connell Tipperary North

Michael O’Brien Westmeath

Donnacha Maguire Meath East

Áine McGinley Donegal South West

Mary Lillis Longford

Mary Hoade Galway East

TJ McGrath Daly Kilkenny

John Kirwin Wexford

Emmett O’Brien Limerick County

Gillian Coughlan Cork South West

Gerry O’Connor Sligo-North Leitrim

Claudia Kennedy Donegal South West

Stephanie Murphy Penn Galway West

Brig Ryan Cork South Central

As an aside, Interesting to note that 4 out of the 5 new VPs are females.

david cost

Im sorry but I know fianna fail have made huge mistakes in the past but why don't people ever acknowledge the good changes that ff have made for example micheal martin introducing the ban on smoking in public places or Bertie Ahern playing a huge role in the peace process.People never remember ff for the good changes they have made only the bad.

thebman

david cost wrote: »

Im sorry but I know fianna fail have made huge mistakes in the past but why don't people ever acknowledge the good changes that ff have made for example micheal martin introducing the ban on smoking in public places or Bertie Ahern playing a huge role in the peace process.People never remember ff for the good changes they have made only the bad.

Because the bad far outweighs the good.

Plus, every pub seems to have found a way around the smoking ban now.

And he founded the HSE, no mention of that.

The real problem for FF is bankrupting the country is an ace card any opposition to them can play as there is no worse act by any other government in the history of the state, not even taxing childrens shoes compares to that one.