Bountygate

eagle eye

Its probably going to be bigger than spygate. Roger Goodell has backed himself into a corner with his tough stances taken against the Patriots over spygate and his heavy fines for helmet to helmet hits etc. on players. This looks to me like its going to end up with huge fines and loss of draft picks for the Saints, coaches being suspended and players too.

New Orleans Saints players and an assistant coach set up a bounty program that paid players to injure opponents, the NFL said Friday.
A lengthy investigation by the league's security department determined that between 22 and 27 defensive players, as well as at least one assistant coach, participated in the program from 2009-11, in violation of NFL rules.
The players regularly contributed cash to a pool and received improper payments of two kinds from the pool based on their play in the previous week's game. Not only were payments made for interceptions and fumble recoveries, but also for "cart-offs" and "knockouts" of offensive players.
According to the league, the additional investigation established the following facts:
"1. During the 2009, 2010 and 2011 seasons, the players and other participants involved used their own money to fund a 'Pay for Performance' program. Players earned cash awards for plays such as interceptions or fumble recoveries. They also earned 'bounty' payments for 'cart-offs' and 'knockouts.' All such payments violate league rules for non-contract bonuses.
"2. Players were willing and enthusiastic participants in the program, contributing regularly and at times pledging large amounts. Between 22 and 27 defensive players contributed funds to the pool over the course of three NFL seasons. In some cases, the amounts pledged were both significant and directed against a specific opposing player.
"3. The bounty program was administered by defensive coordinator Gregg Williams [now with the St. Louis Rams] with the knowledge of other defensive coaches. Funds were contributed on occasion by Williams.
"4. Saints owner Tom Benson gave immediate and full cooperation to the investigators. The evidence conclusively established that Mr. Benson was not aware of the bounty program. When informed earlier this year of the new information, Mr. Benson advised league staff that he had directed his general manager, Mickey Loomis, to ensure that any bounty program be discontinued immediately. The evidence showed that Mr. Loomis did not carry out Mr. Benson’s directions. Similarly, when the initial allegations were discussed with Mr. Loomis in 2010, he denied any knowledge of a bounty program and pledged that he would ensure that no such program was in place. There is no evidence that Mr. Loomis took any effective action to stop these practices.
"5. Although head coach Sean Payton was not a direct participant in the funding or administration of the program, he was aware of the allegations, did not make any detailed inquiry or otherwise seek to learn the facts, and failed to stop the bounty program. He never instructed his assistant coaches or players that a bounty program was improper and could not continue.
"6. There is no question that a bounty program violates long-standing league rules. Payments of this type – even for legitimate plays such as interceptions or fumble recoveries – are forbidden because they are inconsistent with the collective bargaining agreement and well-accepted rules relating to NFL player contracts. "
The league's discipline could include fines, suspensions, and forfeiture of draft choices.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-nfl-saints-paid-players-to-injure-opponents-20120302,0,3490083.story?track=rss

The NFL’s investigation regarding the use by the Saints of a bounty program began after a Super Bowl run that featured big hits on Cardinals quarterback Kurt Warner and Vikings quarterback Brett Favre.
“Our investigation began in early 2010 when allegations were first made that Saints players had targeted opposing players, including Kurt Warner of the Cardinals and Brett Favre of the Vikings,” Commissioner Goodell said in the league’s release announcing the determination that the “bounty” rules had been violated. “Our security department interviewed numerous players and other individuals. At the time, those interviewed denied that any such program existed and the player that made the allegation retracted his earlier assertions. As a result, the allegations could not be proven. We recently received significant and credible new information and the investigation was re-opened during the latter part of the 2011 season.”
That “significant and credible new information” possibly came from a former Saints player or coach with direct knowledge of the bounty program.
In the 2009 division-round playoff, Warner took a wicked (but clean) post-interception hit from Bobby McCray. The following weekend, the Saints repeatedly battered Favre in the NFC title game.
The fact that former Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams administered the program didn’t prompt him to be discreet. Before Super Bowl XLIV against the Colts, Williams said of Peyton Manning, “We’re going to have to do a good job of finding ways to get to him and when we do get to him we’re going to have to make sure he gets a couple ‘remember me’ shots when we get there.”
As the 2010 regular-season opener against Minnesota approached, Williams generally said, “We have to send messages to every offense about how physical it’s going to be when they play us. Those messages are out there, starting with No. 4.”
The league’s announcement that the Saints violated the “bounty” rules sends a clear message to the Saints and every other team regarding the fact that such activities won’t be accepted. But what message does this entire situation end regarding the Super Bowl victory the Saints earned at the end of a playoff run fueled by extra payments for injuring opposing players?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/02/bountygate-possibly-taints-saints-super-bowl-win/

SantryRed

That is absolutely hilarious. I know it's a serious issue and all but jesus christ :pac:

Chucky the tree

Greg Williams apologises. Seems a pretty pathetic apology aswell. Personally I hope he's banned for life.

I want to express my sincere regret and apology to the NFL, Mr. Benson, and the New Orleans Saints fans for my participation in the ‘pay for performance’ program while I was with the Saints. It was a terrible mistake and we knew it was wrong while we were doing it. Instead of getting caught up in it, I should have stopped it. I have learned a hard lesson and I guarantee that I will never participate in or allow this kind of activity to happen again.

kmart6

Bollox....like everything, he is only sorry cause they got caught!

Mr. Guappa

This is hardly an isolated situation is it? Surely similar "programs" were/are to be found in other franchises. They could be just player-operated systems but they surely exist. Maybe the Saints' case is at the worst end of the spectrum but their biggest mistake may be getting caught.

kmart6

No, it probably isn't an isolated incident, but I'd be surprised if many teams would leave a paper trail to it!

Itssoeasy

I'm wondering if it is proven that certain players were targeted and were injured because of the bountygate situation, I take it those playes would be well within their rights to sue would they not ?

Hulk Hands

Delighted the Saints are getting some sort of punishment for what they did to Favre in that NFC championship game. Although the officials that allowed that continuous late hits are as much to blame

Chucky the tree

I wouldn't be surprised if the Saints fire Sean Payton. Loomis is definitely gone. This is a disaster for the Saints an probably happened at the worst time possible. No wonder Brees reject a contract that would make him the highest paid player ever, he'll be gone after a year probably. I also can't see any of their big name free agents sticking around. Horrible situation for the Saints fans.

Syferus

Bigger than Spygate?

Yeah, no.

kmart6

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I'm wondering if it is proven that certain players were targeted and were injured because of the bountygate situation, I take it those playes would be well within their rights to sue would they not ?

I really doubt it! Technically the person with the ball is the target every time!

Lets not get carried away with this!

ReacherCreature

Saints 'ain't saintly.

/gets coat

Itssoeasy

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if the Saints fire Sean Payton. Loomis is definitely gone. This is a disaster for the Saints an probably happened at the worst time possible. No wonder Brees reject a contract that would make him the highest paid player ever, he'll be gone after a year probably. I also can't see any of their big name free agents sticking around. Horrible situation for the Saints fans.

So you think brees knew about the rumblings in the camp about this and won't sign a contract because of it ? I wonder will they lose draft picks this year because of it ? I love how the OC knew it was wrong as it was happening but didnt stop it. Besides the GM he will be looking for new employment.

Danger_dave1

I can't see them firing Sean Payton. Thats like firing B.B for spy gate. He shapes the team. Loomis is gone, who else follows ? Suppose depends on more details that come out.

Chucky the tree

Also not sure why they couldn't press criminal charges and have a very good case.

Itssoeasy wrote: »

So you think brees knew about the rumblings in the camp about this and won't sign a contract because of it ? I wonder will they lose draft picks this year because of it ? I love how the OC knew it was wrong as it was happening but didnt stop it. Besides the GM he will be looking for new employment.

Certainly wouldn't surprise me. I can't think of any other reason he'd refuse a contract to make him the highest paid player ever. No doubt the players knew about it, they were interviewed about it before and there wasn't enough evidence so they were probably interviewed again and it would have gone around through the players.

kmart6

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Also not sure why they couldn't press criminal charges and have a very good case.

What...how?! For what?!

Yes, they had bounties in place to make hits on other players, but it is a contact sport where every player is in a position to get hit so don't see how any charges could be brought for that!

mikemac1

Don't know why there is talk of criminal charges here, never going to happen

Payton will stay, leadership are gone, draft picks will be forfeited and once Drew Brees retires some day the franchise will revert to being a joke

Itssoeasy

kmart6 wrote: »

I really doubt it! Technically the person with the ball is the target every time!

Lets not get carried away with this!

Well thats a good point. It's a collision sport but they seem to have identified specific players that were targeted so.

Chucky the tree

kmart6 wrote: »

What...how?! For what?!

Yes, they had bounties in place to make hits on other players, but it is a contact sport where every player is in a position to get hit so don't see how any charges could be brought for that!

They had bounties in place to injury other players, if you deliberately set out to injury someone that's assault. That fact players got paid and offered money just makes it worse. Also now coming out that Paytons agent was in on it and gave money while the Washington Post claim the same happened with the Redskins when Williams was there. Can of worms.

Syferus

This'll have zero effect on Brees' deal and all players care about is money, a compeditive team and a good city. New Orleans are all three.

Chucky the tree

Syferus wrote: »

This'll have zero effect on Brees' deal and all players care about is money, a compeditive team and a good city. New Orleans are all three.

Not sure for how long considering they will be short draft picks and players.

JaMarcus Hustle

Syferus wrote: »

Bigger than Spygate?

Yeah, no.

It won't be bigger in that it won't attract as much attention because it's not the Patriots. But you can bet your house that the penalties will be the most severe the NFL has ever handed out.

davyjose

I remember the games against the Cards and Saints and it did seem like the Saints were particularly vicious in those games.

This is really quite scandalous. Worse than spygate IMO. deliberately trying to hurt players is as low as it gets. Look at the Kris dielman video. sickening IMO.

Chardee MacDennis

so do the NFL then go after the Giants for targeting Kyle Williams?

frostie500

I just dont see how much of an effect that this will really have on the Saints. I know most of you seem to be taking a "sky is falling" approach to this but realistically what are the NFL going to do?

They might take this year's first rounder off them, same penalty as Spygate, but its not possible to ban them from the postseason (ala the NCAA) and in fairness as long as Brees is in New Orleans free agents are always going to be drawn to the Saints. Same goes for Sean Payton and there's no chance that this has any effect on his standing within the team. No owner is going to fire the man that has been integral of making the team relevant in the league again.

adrian522

BastardPrince wrote: »

so do the NFL then go after the Giants for targeting Kyle Williams?

Not sure what you mean by this? Williams problem was not being able to avoid the bouncing football, or able to hold onto it when he had it in his hands ...

I guess the saints fans can stop bithching about this hit now ....

Chardee MacDennis

adrian522 wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by this? Williams problem was not being able to avoid the bouncing football, or able to hold onto it when he had it in his hands ...

I guess the saints fans can stop bithching about this hit now ....

this is what i mean

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/25/kyle-williams-concussions-49ers-target-giants-nfl-video_n_1230357.html

Chucky the tree

frostie500 wrote: »

I just dont see how much of an effect that this will really have on the Saints. I know most of you seem to be taking a "sky is falling" approach to this but realistically what are the NFL going to do?

They might take this year's first rounder off them, same penalty as Spygate, but its not possible to ban them from the postseason (ala the NCAA) and in fairness as long as Brees is in New Orleans free agents are always going to be drawn to the Saints. Same goes for Sean Payton and there's no chance that this has any effect on his standing within the team. No owner is going to fire the man that has been integral of making the team relevant in the league again.

They don't have a first this year. You could simply take all their draft picks this year and next years 1st and 2nd. Or simply take this years second and third, next years first. The NFL will have to come down hard on this from a business and image perspective.

JaMarcus Hustle

frostie500 wrote: »

I just dont see how much of an effect that this will really have on the Saints. I know most of you seem to be taking a "sky is falling" approach to this but realistically what are the NFL going to do?

They might take this year's first rounder off them, same penalty as Spygate, but its not possible to ban them from the postseason (ala the NCAA) and in fairness as long as Brees is in New Orleans free agents are always going to be drawn to the Saints. Same goes for Sean Payton and there's no chance that this has any effect on his standing within the team. No owner is going to fire the man that has been integral of making the team relevant in the league again.

Saints don't have a first round pick this year. The Pats got their first round pick stripped as well as hefty fines. Given Goodell's stance on player protection, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Saints lose a couple of picks (next years 1st round included), even bigger fines against the salary cap and numerous suspensions (even though Williams' suspension wouldn't affect the Saints anymore obviously).

eagle eye

frostie500 wrote: »

I just dont see how much of an effect that this will really have on the Saints. I know most of you seem to be taking a "sky is falling" approach to this but realistically what are the NFL going to do?

They might take this year's first rounder off them, same penalty as Spygate, but its not possible to ban them from the postseason (ala the NCAA) and in fairness as long as Brees is in New Orleans free agents are always going to be drawn to the Saints. Same goes for Sean Payton and there's no chance that this has any effect on his standing within the team. No owner is going to fire the man that has been integral of making the team relevant in the league again.

Payton could be facing a suspension as he was aware of it and did nothing about it. They might even take the tagging rights off the Saints for a year too. The fact that Goodell is working with the NFLPA on this likely means there are player suspensions coming too. And it is huge, its going to drag on for a long time and the more media it gets the more pressure on Goodell to be seen as the hardass he has set himself up as. I think its going to be way bigger than spygate because thats who things roll over there. The next scandal is always way bigger than the last one.

adrian522

BastardPrince wrote: »

this is what i mean

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/25/kyle-williams-concussions-49ers-target-giants-nfl-video_n_1230357.html

OK, but that's still completely different to this story.

Players will always want to target players they perceive as weak or injury-prone, the issue here is with organising additional payments for knocking players out of games etc.

I think most, if not all defenses are happy enough to try to knock opposing QB's out of the game for example.

Syferus

Syferus wrote: »

Bigger than Spygate?

Yeah, no.

its a lot bigger than spygate going out to injure a player is probably the worst offense there is in football to be quite honest anyone caught i think should get a lifetime ban from anything nfl related and could be brought up for assault

kmart6

Chucky the tree wrote: »

They had bounties in place to injury other players, if you deliberately set out to injury someone that's assault. That fact players got paid and offered money just makes it worse. Also now coming out that Paytons agent was in on it and gave money while the Washington Post claim the same happened with the Redskins when Williams was there. Can of worms.

There just isn't going to be criminal charges out of this, to try and say there could be assault charges is stretching it!

adrian522

kmart6 wrote: »

There just isn't going to be criminal charges out of this, to try and say there could be assault charges is stretching it!

I agree, a lot if this is part of the game and accepted, the issue is with organising payments, not with going out making big hits...there are already penalties in place for illegal hits, and if the hits are legal there is no problem.

There has been a slight over reaction to this I think.

There will be consequences but there won't be any lawsuits.

This is what Kurt Warner had to say

""To think that guys didn't think, 'Hey, we'd love to knock Kurt out or we'd love to knock Brett Favre out, or Drew Brees -- or whoever it might be -- I think that's part of the game and I think that's part of the mindset," Warner said.

Warner described McCray's blindside block during an interception return as a "nice exclamation point" on Warner's career, and one that left him sore for a couple of weeks. But Warner also said his decision to retire had been in the works for some time. "

kmart6

kmart6 wrote: »

There just isn't going to be criminal charges out of this, to try and say there could be assault charges is stretching it!

there probably wont be but there should be if you go out of your way to injure some1 that is not sport and not business its assault

kmart6

Players are allowed gamble amongst themselves yeah?! Could they turn this into a group bet and the best determined performance got the pot/'bounty'?!

Just seen this from Darren Sharper:

Darren Sharper spoke to NFL.com and flatly denied that there were cash payments offered in the Saints’ locker room to players who injured members of other teams. Sharper did admit that cash was changing hands among members of the Saints defense, but that they were limited to interceptions, sacks and other legal plays and that practices of that kind go on around the NFL.

“I think this is something that, from when I got in the league in 1997, has happened thousands and thousands of times over,” Sharper said. “It’s ridiculous that someone is trying to say that we made bounties on knocking guys out, when basically all it was is that when a guy gets an interception, then he might get paid. That’s something that guys do amongst themselves.”

JaMarcus Hustle

kmart6 wrote: »

Players are allowed gamble amongst themselves yeah?! Could they turn this into a group bet and the best determined performance got the pot/'bounty'?!

That wouldn't be a big deal, but the fact the emphasis seems to be on injuring other players and specific targets, orchestrated by coaches and the non-playing staff is the big deal. You expect things like this from a lot of players, but with the non-playing staff involved, the Saints are in deep, deep trouble. If it was a reward for big hits or big plays, maybe not the biggest deal in the world. But identifying individual players to deliberately injure - which is what I would take from the word bounty - is another story.

Chucky the tree

kmart6 wrote: »

There just isn't going to be criminal charges out of this, to try and say there could be assault charges is stretching it!

I don't think there will be if a player pushed for it I could easily seeing it happening.

kmart6 wrote: »

Players are allowed gamble amongst themselves yeah?! Could they turn this into a group bet and the best determined performance got the pot/'bounty'?!

Just seen this from Darren Sharper:

Ugh Sharper, makes a right tit of himself considering Williams apology.

kmart6

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I don't think there will be if a player pushed for it I could easily seeing it happening.




Ugh Sharper, makes a right tit of himself considering Williams apology.

No body was seriously injured from it though, or received a career ending injury!

Williams statement only mentions a pay for performance program, which fits in with what Sharper has said!

frostie500

It's been reported by the Washington Post that a similar system was used by the Redskins when Williams was at the team.

The Washington Post wrote:

The Washington Redskins had a bounty system for big hits on opponents under former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams that was similar to the one revealed by an NFL investigation of the New Orleans Saints, four players who played under Williams said Friday.

Three of the players described a coach who doled out thousands of dollars to Redskins defenders who measured up to Williams’s scoring system for rugged play, including “kill shots” that knocked opposing teams’stars out of a game.

“You got compensated more for a kill shot than you did other hits,” said one former player, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Of the four players interviewed, only Philip Daniels, a former defensive lineman, was willing to be quoted on the record. He defended Williams’s coaching. Daniels now serves as the team’s director of player development.

Players said compensation ranged from “hundreds to thousands of dollars,” with the biggest sum any player received believed to be about $8,000.

“I never took it for anything [but] just incentive to make good, hard plays,” said a current player, who requested anonymity. “But I’m pretty sure it did entice some guys to do more to a player than normal when it came to taking them out. I mean, that’s cash. Let’s just be honest about it.

“If you took the star player out, he’d hook you up a little bit.”

The Redskins declined to comment through team spokesman Tony Wyllie.

Daniels said he believed Williams began the program with money from fines collected from players for being late for meetings or practices. “Rather than pocket that money or whatever, he would re-distribute it to players who had good games or good practices.”

He said the most he ever received was $1,500 for a four-sack game against the Dallas Cowboys in 2005.

“I think it is wrong the way they’re trying to paint [Williams],” Daniels added. “He never told us to go out there and break a guy’s neck or break a guy’s leg. It was all in the context of a good, hard football.”

He acknowledged Williams’s system for awarding players’ cash featured more money for what Williams’ deemed “physical play.” “Sean Taylor made a lot,” he said of the hard-hitting safety who was killed in his Miami home in 2007.

The other three players interviewed portrayed Williams as a “coach who just took it a little too far,” in the words of one.

“He actually had a saying, ‘If you cut the snake’s head off, the body will die,’ that was his motto,” said the player. “It was made clear that he was talking about not just running backs who turned their heads the opposite way and how they would go down, but also about other stars on offense that were the best players on that team.”

The NFL announced Friday that the Saints operated an improper bounty program that paid players as much as $1,500 for hits that injured opposing players.

The program, administered by Williams, also a former defensive coordinator there, paid $1500 for a “knockout” hit and $1000 if an opponent was carted off the field between 2009 and 2011, the NFL said. Most of the money was contributed by players, but Williams also donated to the fund.

If this is the case it could prove pretty important in the NFLs decision making on the case and they may view it that William's has a history of doing this and may lay most of the blame on his door

OAOB

Didn't AP come out and say he thought they were targetting his injured ankle in a game this year and felt they were trying to aggravate the injury and knock him out of the game?
Playing hard is great and players do get injured but to go out with the intention of injurying someone to gain a bonus is a step too far, serious penalties need to be handed out in this case.

JaMarcus Hustle

frostie500 wrote: »

It's been reported by the Washington Post that a similar system was used by the Redskins when Williams was at the team.

If this is the case it could prove pretty important in the NFLs decision making on the case and they may view it that William's has a history of doing this and may lay most of the blame on his door

We can also add Buffalo to the list of teams Williams had implemented his own bounty schemes at.

frostie500

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

We can also add Buffalo to the list of teams Williams had implemented his own bounty schemes at.

It seems that Williams did it every where he went but in fairness I'd say we could add pretty much every team in the league to the list that had a bounty. I think it would be pretty naive to believe that it was just the Saints doing this

Chucky the tree

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/severe-sweeping-penalties-under-consideration-in-saints-bounty-case/2012/03/04/gIQAThoDrR_blog.html

The NFL is considering severe, sweeping disciplinary measures in the New Orleans Saints’ bounty case that could include lengthy suspensions of Coach Sean Payton, General Manager Mickey Loomis, former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams and player leaders of the scheme, a person familiar with the deliberations said Sunday.

I think due to the nature of the incident it was always going to be on the harsher end of the scale but I didn't expect to this severe. I fully expected Williams to be suspended for a long time but didn't expect the rest. However considering so many have come out and said it happens often I think they needed to send out a very clear warning that this isn't acceptable.

Hazys

I dont think we'll see how severe its going to be till Goodell gives his punishment...its gona be bad.

Spygate was videotaping defensive signals from the wrong location and blatant disregard of NFL warnings and rules and the Pats lost a 1st round pick but this is borderline criminal and seriously questions the NFL's integrity.

I think we won’t see the severity of this issue till Goodell makes his punishment is because there is very little hype about it in comparison to Spygate.

Its one thing for a player to act on his own and hurt an injured player in the bottom of the pile or hit a QB late...that’s dirty and deserves a fine or suspension but tbh that’s part of the game, it comes with the territory. James Harrison has been fined over $100k and suspended for games for dirty hits. But this is a team encouraging and conspiring to hurt opposition players and paying them to do so.

With the NFL facing a possible lawsuit from retired players due to health issues and the NFL attempting to make the game safer and Goodell's big speech last about integrity being the most important aspect the NFL needs to keep customers and the NFL profitable, I can see the hammer being dropped hard on the Saints. I can see Williams gone for the year, possibly Loomis too. Payton is going to get a significant suspension too. There will also be player suspensions too, Vilma at least will miss some games. They will lose draft picks too and a fine, i think that is the least we can expect.

Not too mention the IRS will probably be getting involved about the illegal payments too. There is also talk of criminal charges too, but i dont see any opposition players bringing charges.

Hazys

Syferus wrote: »

Bigger than Spygate?

Yeah, no.

There is a severe lack of knowledge among non-Pats fans about Spygate and the extreme hype that came with it.

At the end of the day ignoring the hype, what it came down to was: the Pats videotaped defensive signals from the wrong location (you can tape defensive signals for an enclosed area), they were told to stop, Belichick arrogantly ignored the league office and the Pats were fined and stripped of a first round draft pick.

The hype was ridiculous and extensive, had it been somebody like the Arizona Cardinals nobody would give a sh1t. FFS we had US senators with their own agendas calling for the Pats being stripped of their rings, we had Matt Walsh "super spy", Ernie Adams "super spy", a $100m lawsuit from fans, etc. The bull**** and noise went on and on for months...it was quiet ridiculous in hindsight.

themont85

Hazys wrote: »

There is a severe lack of knowledge among non-Pats fans about Spygate and the extreme hype that came with it.

At the end of the day ignoring the hype, what it came down to was: the Pats videotaped defensive signals from the wrong location (you can tape defensive signals for an enclosed area), they were told to stop, Belichick arrogantly ignored the league office and the Pats were fined and stripped of a first round draft pick.

The hype was ridiculous and extensive, had it been somebody like the Arizona Cardinals nobody would give a sh1t. FFS we had US senators with their own agendas calling for the Pats being stripped of their rings, we had Matt Walsh "super spy", Ernie Adams "super spy", a $100m lawsuit from fans, etc. The bull**** and noise went on and on for months...it was quiet ridiculous in hindsight.

And Pats fans, not pointing you out but to say it's just non Pats fans is laughable.

adrian522

themont85 wrote: »

And Pats fans, not pointing you out but to say it's just non Pats fans is laughable.

Whats also laughable is the idea that if it had been another team that noone would have cared. The reaction would have been the same regardless of which team was involved.

Hazys

themont85 wrote: »

And Pats fans, not pointing you out but to say it's just non Pats fans is laughable.

TBF Pats fans were bombarded with Spygate non-stop for months and you still get it brought up from time to time. Pats fans were forced to learn the facts.

While you still get non-Pats fans who believe that the Pats have a network of spies, Matt Walsh has a bunch of hidden tapes, etc. The best example was when i was in Dallas last year a Cowboys fan harping on about the Pats being cheaters to me and they should be stripped of their rings, while failing to realize Jimmy Johnson came out and said he did the same thing was BB did while he was head coach when the Cowboys won a bunch of rings.

Hazys

adrian522 wrote: »

Whats also laughable is the idea that if it had been another team that noone would have cared. The reaction would have been the same regardless of which team was involved.

Do you honestly believe that tho? I think you're being in nieve to believe that the Pats were a not team a lot of people hated at the time and didnt mind sh1ting on them when they got the chance.

I think the majority of people agree BountyGate is worse than Spygate...so where's the hype?

Where's the US senator asking for the Saints to be stripped of their rings? Wheres the calls to have Sean Payton thrown out of the league? etc.

adrian522

Hazys wrote: »

Do you honestly believe that tho? I think you're being in nieve to believe that the Pats were a not team a lot of people hated at the time and didnt mind sh1ting on them when they got the chance.

I think the majority of people agree BountyGate is worse than Spygate...so where's the hype?

Where's the US senator asking for the Saints to be stripped of their rings? Wheres the calls to have Sean Payton thrown out of the league? etc.

There's plenty of hype about the saints and much more to come. The story only broke on Friday for God's sake.

Sure the Pats were disliked, but every team in league is disliked by some group of fans but to say noone would have given a s*** if it was any other team is utterly ridiculous.

I also couldn't care less about what gets said by US senators, all that matters in the punishment that gets handed out, and that would have been the same regardless of which team was caught breaking these rules.

Call me naive all you like but I think you are being utterly defensive to the point of paranoia.