Israeli official advocates starving Iranian people.

Brown Bomber

In line with other official Israeli policies of intentional near-starving of the entire Gazan population and also with the sickening conclusions of Madeleine Albright who considered the sanctions on Iraq which apparently killed 500,000 Iraqi children "worth it". An Israeli official has called for the starving of the Iranian population.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbIX1CP9qr4

The Israeli official thinks that (lack of) food should used as a weapon to collectively punish the Iranian population to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons.

"Suffocating sanctions could lead to a grave economic situation in Iran and to a shortage of food," the source said. "This would force the regime to consider whether the nuclear adventure is worthwhile
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4196885,00.html

The depravity of this policy aside I fail to see how it would actually work. It would be my opinion that hardships caused by external enemies would only bind the Iranian people closer together and unify political foes against the common enemy.

Yonge Street

The inexplicable obsession with the tiny democratic state in the Middle East continues. If there is no current thread denouncing Israel as evil, trawl the internet to find a reason to start a new one. You seem to be a single-issue shill poter. No agenda there, eh :rolleyes:

I think you'll find that the ordinary Joe Soap in Ireland is more concerned about his job, his mortgage and his family. Why isn't this story making the headlines on RTE news, or any other news station in the world for that matter. I would guess (a) because it's false anti-semitic trash (b) nobody cares outside of the raving loonies in the IPSC.

Also congrats on Godwin'ing your own thread in the OP. Impressive.

Jaafa

You really do wonder do these officials have any sort of higher reasoning. Ignoring the horrific nature of the statements lets just look at the practicality of such a plan.

Iran is no north korea, it is not isolated and it is not struggling. Any reports suggesting otherwise are just showcasing temporary hits to it's otherwise staggering progress economically and scientifically. From which it has always recovered becoming more from western countries independent in the process.

Despite multiple sanctions from 8 countries plus the EU and 6 UN sanctions since 1979 the Iranian economy recently became 17th in the world in PPP(Purchasing power parity). Surpassing Poland, Australia and Taiwan.

Its contribution to world science has increased at 11 times the world rate between 1980-2009. Combining the scientific output of Iran and Turkey (if you go by order it goes Turkey,Iran,Israel) you get a result bigger than the rest of the middle east put together, including Israel. Link.

Taking the above into account it's clear that unlike North Korea, 'isolation' and sanctions has entirely failed in Iran and one must wonder if they are actually doing the opposite of their intended goals. As the above paper says

The astronomical growth of the Iranian system may have been the result of a reaction to the isolation that the country experienced during the Iraq-Iran war. Indeed,the fact that so many countries sided with Iraq at the time may have incited the Persian republic to mobilize its scientists to develop nuclear capabilities.

TLDR: Sanctions don't work on Iran. Try something else.

Jaafa

Yonge Street wrote: »

The inexplicable obsession with the tiny democratic state in the Middle East continues. If there is no current thread denouncing Israel as evil, trawl the internet to find a reason to start a new one. You seem to be a single-issue shill poter. No agenda there, eh :rolleyes:

I think you'll find that the ordinary Joe Soap in Ireland is more concerned about his job, his mortgage and his family. Why isn't this story making the headlines on RTE news, or any other news station in the world for that matter. I would guess (a) because it's false anti-semitic trash (b) nobody cares outside of the raving loonies in the IPSC.

Also congrats on Godwin'ing your own thread in the OP. Impressive.

Considering this is an article from the website of the most read newspaper in Israel, it seems you haven't a leg to stand on. Educate yourself.

K-9

Yonge Street wrote: »

The inexplicable obsession with the tiny democratic state in the Middle East continues. If there is no current thread denouncing Israel as evil, trawl the internet to find a reason to start a new one. You seem to be a single-issue shill poter. No agenda there, eh :rolleyes:

I think you'll find that the ordinary Joe Soap in Ireland is more concerned about his job, his mortgage and his family. Why isn't this story making the headlines on RTE news, or any other news station in the world for that matter. I would guess (a) because it's false anti-semitic trash (b) nobody cares outside of the raving loonies in the IPSC.

Also congrats on Godwin'ing your own thread in the OP. Impressive.

Mod

Attack the post please, not the poster.

The ordinary Joe Soap is still concerned about many different issues despite job, mortgage or family concerns.

RichieC

Yonge Street wrote: »

The inexplicable obsession with the tiny democratic state in the Middle East continues. If there is no current thread denouncing Israel as evil, trawl the internet to find a reason to start a new one. You seem to be a single-issue shill poter. No agenda there, eh :rolleyes:

I think you'll find that the ordinary Joe Soap in Ireland is more concerned about his job, his mortgage and his family. Why isn't this story making the headlines on RTE news, or any other news station in the world for that matter. I would guess (a) because it's false anti-semitic trash (b) nobody cares outside of the raving loonies in the IPSC.

Also congrats on Godwin'ing your own thread in the OP. Impressive.

A tiny democratic state with the fourth largest military on earth.

Foghladh

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Ironically, Hitler also used food as a weapon.

Now there's a rational follow through. Well done on managing to compare the Israelis to the Nazis through the cunning use of food

RichieC

Foghladh wrote: »

Now there's a rational follow through. Well done on managing to compare the Israelis to the Nazis through the cunning use of food

What about the ghettofied Palestinians in Gaza? the surrounding and choking off of Palestinian towns in the wider region? the two tiered legal system inside Israel?

There's plenty of analogues.

Foghladh

RichieC wrote: »

What about the ghettofied Palestinians in Gaza? the surrounding and choking off of Palestinian towns in the wider region? the two tiered legal system inside Israel?

There's plenty of analogues.

True. Of course one could also draw on the dislike of Jewish type people shared by both Hitler and the Iranians. Hitler can be used in many ways if you put your mind to it.

It still makes feck all sense in a debate though.

Pacifist Pigeon

News headline:

"Iranian officials advocate wiping Israel off the face of the map, killing gays, treating women as second class citizen, denying the rights of religious minorities and theocratic dictatorship - all at the same time" - Shock, horror!

Yonge Street

RichieC wrote: »

A tiny democratic state with the fourth largest military on earth.

Lies. Largest militaries on Earth in order are: China, USA, India, North Korea, Russia. Israel ranks #30.

No matter what criteria you measure the largest military by (number of reserves, by spending, etc..) you are incorrect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_troops

K-9

Mod

Can't see this thread lasting long if posters just want to post "witty" retorts or ignore the wider issue in the OP.

Attack the post, OP edited to stop Godwin references, passe and predictable at this stage.

Foghladh

As far as the article goes it doesn't really say very much. It's an unnamed official in an unspecified role advocating the use of sanctions. It could be the deputy prime minister or it could be the guy who processes driving license applications in some town hall somewhere in Jerusalem. It's a bit of a non-runner really

BlaasForRafa

Jaafa wrote: »

You really do wonder do these officials have any sort of higher reasoning. Ignoring the horrific nature of the statements lets just look at the practicality of such a plan..

The article that the OP links to dosen't name this official, and without knowing who it is we can't tell if it is actually a serious statement or someone just spitballing.

Ynet news is not as reliable a source of information as ha'aretz and there isn't anything about this on there.

JustinDee

Brown Bomber wrote: »

In line with other official Israeli policies of intentional near-starving of the entire Gazan population and also with the sickening conclusions of Madeleine Albright who considered the sanctions on Iraq which apparently killed 500,000 Iraqi children "worth it". An Israeli official has called for the starving of the Iranian population.

The Israeli official thinks that (lack of) food should used as a weapon to collectively punish the Iranian population to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons.


The depravity of this policy aside I fail to see how it would actually work. It would be my opinion that hardships caused by external enemies would only bind the Iranian people closer together and unify political foes against the common enemy.

Name the alleged official. Can't? Thats because its an allegation on YNet.

On sanctions themselves, the threat of structural supply cut is one of the effects that a regime being sanctioned risks, hence said kind of sanction being pre-emptive to any other actions if diplomacy fails.
The thing is however, there are Pilgerists who moan about dictators/regimes and that something should be done about them. Something gets done (ie. sanctions imposed) and its "what about the children??!!". The only other alternatives outside of diplomacy are military action, covert action or steering regime change (which can take years).

The Saint

Non-story. Could be anyone spouting off. Yedioth Ahronoth is a rag with borderline lunatic editorials.

hatrickpatrick

Yonge Street wrote: »

The inexplicable obsession with the tiny democratic

Stopped reading there.
A democracy does not discriminate based on religion, nor does a democracy deliberately exclude the majority of the population from participating in democracy in order to preserve the supremacy of a particular ethnic group.
Furthermore, a democracy does not bulldoze the homes of members of one group in order to steal their land and make room for homes of a different group.

It's called racism.

Brown Bomber

Yonge Street wrote: »

The inexplicable obsession with the tiny democratic state in the Middle East continues. If there is no current thread denouncing Israel as evil, trawl the internet to find a reason to start a new one. You seem to be a single-issue shill poter. No agenda there, eh :rolleyes:

My agenda, if there was one would be anti-forced-starvation of an innocent population. I would expect any decent minded person to share this "agenda".

Yonge Street wrote: »

I think you'll find that the ordinary Joe Soap in Ireland is more concerned about his job, his mortgage and his family. Why isn't this story making the headlines on RTE news, or any other news station in the world for that matter. I would guess (a) because it's false anti-semitic trash (b) nobody cares outside of the raving loonies in the IPSC.

Regarding (a) As Jaafa has already pointed out you are highlighting your own ignorance with your nonsensical claims that YNET is "anti-semitic trash".
Regarding (b) Evidently you care.

Yonge Street wrote: »

Also congrats on Godwin'ing your own thread in the OP. Impressive.

Congrats on playing the anti-semitic card in your own opening post. Impressive.

Of course, nevermind that should this policy come to fruition that Iranian Jews would also be starved.

Brown Bomber

Foghladh wrote: »

Now there's a rational follow through. Well done on managing to compare the Israelis to the Nazis through the cunning use of food

If the jackboot fits...

The feeding of the prisoners:
Prisoners in the camp received meals three times a day: morning, noon, and evening. Factors influencing the nutritional value of the food included the official nutritional norms in the Nazi concentration camps. In practice, Auschwitz prisoners with less physically demanding labor assignments received approximately 1,300 calories per day, while those engaged in hard labor received approximately 1,700. After several weeks on such starvation rations in the camp, most prisoners began to experience organic deterioration that led to the so-called "Muzulman" state, extreme physical exhaustion that ended in death.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...onditions.html

The current Netanyahu governent also meticulously calculated the minumum calorie intake levels for Gazan people to survive on near-starvation levels and only permitted these levels of food to enter Gaza.

Brown Bomber

The Saint wrote: »

Non-story. Could be anyone spouting off. Yedioth Ahronoth is a rag with borderline lunatic editorials.

Could be but Israel does have very recent previous with restricting food to entire populations.
http://www.medialens.org/alerts/10/101117_put_the_palestinians.php

JustinDee

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Could be but Israel does have very recent previous with restricting food to entire populations.
http://www.medialens.org/alerts/10/101117_put_the_palestinians.php

So does anyone who enforces sanctions on medical and food products. The point of an economic or aid sanction is to use the lack thereof as a determinant point of leverage leading to a satisfactory conclusion or at the very least, some semblance of diplomatic channels.
Otherwise, its a waste of time.
Alternatively, one could just sit on their hands and pretend nothing is going on.

Speaking of democracy, when was it that the elections in Gaza were due to take place? Only been 6 years now that the Hamas regime have the run of the place with no opposition existing or permitted.

the_syco

Pacifist Pigeon wrote: »

News headline:

"Iranian officials advocate wiping Israel off the face of the map, killing gays, treating women as second class citizen, denying the rights of religious minorities and theocratic dictatorship - all at the same time" - Shock, horror!

Ah, but the Iranians are the victims (who are also trying to build nukes) so we'll ignore all of that...

czx

RichieC wrote: »

A tiny democratic state with the fourth largest military on earth.

Just shows how out of touch you are

RichieC

czx wrote: »

Just shows how out of touch you are

I don't believe so. their military spending is one of the highest on earth as a % of GDP. 3rd highest per capita and they literally have the US military in their back pocket.

You could easily argue that they, in realistic terms, have the largest military.

Yonge Street

RichieC wrote: »

I don't believe so. their military spending is one of the highest on earth as a % of GDP. 3rd highest per capita and they literally have the US military in their back pocket.

You could easily argue that they, in realistic terms, have the largest military.

You're moving the goalposts now that your lies have been revealed.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

you could, but you'd be wrong and wrong on purpose to suit your political opinions.

Brown Bomber

JustinDee wrote: »

So does anyone who enforces sanctions on medical and food products. The point of an economic or aid sanction is to use the lack thereof as a determinant point of leverage leading to a satisfactory conclusion or at the very least, some semblance of diplomatic channels.
Otherwise, its a waste of time.
Alternatively, one could just sit on their hands and pretend nothing is going on.

Surely you are cognisant of the false dichotomy you have just presented? Surely you are aware that are more than the two options of "just sitting on our hands" and intentionally starving people?

Your description of a potential programme of forced mass starvation as a "point of leverage" genuinely disgusts me.

You would likely be locked-up for intentionally starving a dog. We are talking about literally millions of people here.

JustinDee wrote: »

Speaking of democracy, when was it that the elections in Gaza were due to take place? Only been 6 years now that the Hamas regime have the run of the place with no opposition existing or permitted.

You'll find that there was "opposition existing" as soon as the people of Palestine voted the wrong way in elections. Fatah backed by the US and Israel attempted a military coup.

RichieC

Yonge Street wrote: »

You're moving the goalposts now that your lies have been revealed.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

you could, but you'd be wrong and wrong on purpose to suit your political opinions.

You might call it moving the goal posts, I consider it acknowledging reality.

Israel is a massive military power whatever way you cut it. We aren't even sure what their nuclear capability is but it is suspected that they are 3rd or 4th with 250+ warheads, and a bio warfare division.

You guys wish to paint them as a "tiny democracy" - to suit your agenda.

moresthepity82

i dont know how Pro-Israelites can sleep at night

the regime openly refers to the state as "Jewish". I'm surprised the non-jewish populations have remained there, if this is what "their" government thinks of them

they did all they could to ensure most of the Arabs left anyway

JustinDee

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Surely you are cognisant of the false dichotomy you have just presented? Surely you are aware that are more than the two options of "just sitting on our hands" and intentionally starving people?

I already have described more than two options.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Your description of a potential programme of forced mass starvation as a "point of leverage" genuinely disgusts me.

You would likely be locked-up for intentionally starving a dog. We are talking about literally millions of people here

Whoa there, fella. I'm just describing how the machinations of economic and medical sanctions. This doesn't mean I support everything about it.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

You'll find that there was "opposition existing" as soon as the people of Palestine voted the wrong way in elections. Fatah backed by the US and Israel attempted a military coup.

Since Hamas came to power (early 2006 unless I'm much mistaken) there has been no opposition allowed and a number of purges have taken place at opportune moments. There is no opposition for the simple reason that Hamas won't allow it.
Attempting to justify how Hamas run Gaza unopposed and bleat about democracy, human rights etc.

Nodin

Brown Bomber wrote: »

My agenda, if there was one would be anti-forced-starvation of an innocent population. I would expect any decent minded person to share this "agenda".

...........

There's no realistic prospect of any such thing happening in the short to medium term. At all.