Kauto Star

restingpilgrim

Kauto Star is only 50/50 to make the Gold Cup after a fall schooling last week under Ruby.

solerina

I nsaw that earlier, terrible pity, lets hope he gets through it and is able to run, he deserves a last shot (if its safe for him)

Juwwi

The owners of Grand Crus will have a tough decision to make if Kauto does'nt run.

kksaints

Hope he runs. But if he isnt 100% they shouldnt run him. Grand Crus I hope goes to the RSA chase instead regardless if Kauto is running.

Colonel Sanders

Horse is already an immortal of the NH game but he deserved another crack at glory. Absolute shame if he misses out

TheMilkyPirate

Will be gutted if he misses out for a number of reasons, The most important being it just won't be the same without him and would love to see him have one more crack at it. The other reasons being a not so good price on Long run who i think would have won either way. Also if Long run wins now without Kauto in the line up we will have the inevitable shouts of he wouldn't have won if Kauto was there, Which put simply is bollox.

klairondavis

Ruby to switch to Quel Esprit now presumably

HigginsJ

Why would u need to be schooling Kauto Star 3 weeks before the Gold Cup? Is it just me or is that adding an unnecessary risk to his preparations.

Not as though a 12yo is going to improve his jumping? Maybe im just taking a simplistic view

Hope he makes it.

BackScrub

I've never prayed to God before so hello God, I'm BackScrub.

Please let Kauto Star be fit for Cheltenham. Thanks. Chat soon.

UrbanSea

Something I don't understand. Everyone giving out about Gordon Elliot because he didn't tell people that Backstage wasn't eligible for the Foxhunter's.

Kauto fell last week and not a word said about Nicholls' delay in telling the news

Colonel Sanders

UrbanSea wrote: »

Something I don't understand. Everyone giving out about Gordon Elliot because he didn't tell people that Backstage wasn't eligible for the Foxhunter's.

Kauto fell last week and not a word said about Nicholls' delay in telling the news

I didn't read his Betfair column the last few weekends but a friend text earlier to say he reported Kauto schooled well & it was all systems go

kfallon

UrbanSea wrote: »

Something I don't understand. Everyone giving out about Gordon Elliot because he didn't tell people that Backstage wasn't eligible for the Foxhunter's.

Kauto fell last week and not a word said about Nicholls' delay in telling the news

"Ruby was here on Friday morning to school... He schooled Kauto Star ....and I was delighted with them all." PN on Sat in his BF column

:pac:

Sammo13

Kauto is less than 50% surely, going by what walsh/PH said today, he is still sore and stiff.. I'm sure they don't want to go out like istabraq and pull up after 3 furlongs.. As a race fan I hope to hell he makes it, best horse in my time (37 yrs old) and a poorer festival w/o him. That said, hope Grand Crus runs in GC, Long Run is must to take on at 13/8... JP and Jonjo surely fancy their chances.. Fingers crossed Kauto makes it..

TheMilkyPirate

UrbanSea wrote: »

Something I don't understand. Everyone giving out about Gordon Elliot because he didn't tell people that Backstage wasn't eligible for the Foxhunter's.

Kauto fell last week and not a word said about Nicholls' delay in telling the news

"Kauto took a tumble when Ruby schooled him at the end of last week. I say tumble, but in truth it was a pretty awful fall.

"Clive [Smith] was obviously consulted at all times and we immediately got Kauto checked over. Even though he trotted sound, it was plain to see that he was sore afterwards.

"He has had the best veterinary and physiotherapy care possible but we hoped that he would be showing more improvement by now.

"I spoke to Clifford [Baker] after returning to the stables after a Cheltenham media day on Wednesday, and he said Kauto still wasn't fully recovered, remained quite stiff, and in his wise words he felt he was 'only 50-50' to make the festival at this stage.

"So I immediately spoke to Clive and we felt that it prudent that we put out this update today."

He obviously thought the horse would have improved by now and didn't want to alarm punters, The horse hasn't improved as expected so they've decided to issue the statement.

I think it was handled well IMO.

UrbanSea

I disagree.
Supposing he were to be back to normal now, but go on to run an absolute stinker in the race. People would be looking for reasons why. If it were revealed that he had fallen a few weeks beforehand but it wasn't disclosed as he had recovered as per they hoped, punters would be furious.

Slattsy

Personally, and i dont have KS backed so im not talking from my pocket... but i could not believe it when Nicholls said the fall was last week. What a scumbag !!! He should have been honest and came out with it there and then.

Long Ru n 13/8 now.

mr.jingle

Sammo13 wrote: »

. That said, hope Grand Crus runs in GC, Long Run is must to take on at 13/8... JP and Jonjo surely fancy their chances..

Is anyone else puzzled by this? JP and Jonjo fancy there chances at what? Not being smart I just don't know what your on about! Unless your on about Synchronized chances which to me will be lucky to finish top 6

NaiveMelodies

Why the f**k should Nicholls have come out with it last week?
He's not a gambler, so it's not like he was laying Kauto before telling the public.
I'd imagine himself and connections were praying to God that he wouldn't have had to come out with today's statement, but obviously the horse hasn't recovered from the fall as well as connections hoped.
Why should his first worry be telling the public?
For all we know his blogs are written days in advance too.

Sick of whining and moaning regarding the conduct of trainers, of trainers not being fair to the public(gamblers) or being greedy, such a pain in the hole really to constantly hear it, especially in the run up to the greatest week of racing.
There ain't many angels in Racing, but if you don't know that you shouldn't be in the game.

premierstone

HigginsJ wrote: »

Why would u need to be schooling Kauto Star 3 weeks before the Gold Cup? Is it just me or is that adding an unnecessary risk to his preparations.

Not as though a 12yo is going to improve his jumping? Maybe im just taking a simplistic view

Hope he makes it.

Well he's jumping has actually improved dramatically as a 12yo he has jumped better this year than any other.

premierstone

only1stevo wrote: »

Why the f**k should Nicholls have come out with it last week?
He's not a gambler, so it's not like he was laying Kauto before telling the public.
I'd imagine himself and connections were praying to God that he wouldn't have had to come out with today's statement, but obviously the horse hasn't recovered from the fall as well as connections hoped.
Why should his first worry be telling the public?
For all we know his blogs are written days in advance too.

Sick of whining and moaning regarding the conduct of trainers, of trainers not being fair to the public(gamblers) or being greedy, such a pain in the hole really to constantly hear it, especially in the run up to the greatest week of racing.
There ain't many angels in Racing, but if you don't know that you shouldn't be in the game.

Spot on a trainers first priority is the horse, then the owner, punters are pretty far down the list and quite rightly.

Huntley

premierstone wrote: »

Well he's jumping has actually improved dramatically as a 12yo he has jumped better this year than any other.

His jumping hasn't improved dramatically. Kauto was always a very good jumper.

Sammo13

Mr Jingle, Kauto is very unlikely to run, Long Run is one to oppose, form not great, Grand Crus not sure to run, Burton Port needs to back up last run and improve a stone. For you to say Synchronized will be lucky to finish in first 6 is laughable, Welsh and Lexus winner, 10/1 is a nice price... Think of the placed horses over the years, sir rembrandt, hedgehunter, turpin green... 10/1 ew maybe bigger on the day... It opinons this game :rolleyes:

hucklebuck

only1stevo wrote: »

Why the f**k should Nicholls have come out with it last week?
He's not a gambler, so it's not like he was laying Kauto before telling the public.
I'd imagine himself and connections were praying to God that he wouldn't have had to come out with today's statement, but obviously the horse hasn't recovered from the fall as well as connections hoped.
Why should his first worry be telling the public?
For all we know his blogs are written days in advance too.

Sick of whining and moaning regarding the conduct of trainers, of trainers not being fair to the public(gamblers) or being greedy, such a pain in the hole really to constantly hear it, especially in the run up to the greatest week of racing.
There ain't many angels in Racing, but if you don't know that you shouldn't be in the game.

Well how about last nights preview at Westmanstown, Ruby on the stage and Nicholls by phone, Ruby said he wouldn't back him but gave reasons as him being a 12 year old. Nicholls rang in and said he was in good order when he clearly wasn't.

They said this to a crowd of around 600 racing fans a week after he fell and they must have known they were making the announcement today, do you think this is right?

mr.jingle

Sammo13 wrote: »

Mr Jingle, Kauto is very unlikely to run, Long Run is one to oppose, form not great, Grand Crus not sure to run, Burton Port needs to back up last run and improve a stone. For you to say Synchronized will be lucky to finish in first 6 is laughable, Welsh and Lexus winner, 10/1 is a nice price... Think of the placed horses over the years, sir rembrandt, hedgehunter, turpin green... 10/1 ew maybe bigger on the day... It opinons this game :rolleyes:

For you to say Long Run's form is not great is the most laughable post on here! Defending Champion and only beaten by the resurgence of one of the greatest horses of all time in Kauto Star. Won his prep race for the festival against decent opposition yet the form isn't great now that deserves a :rolleyes:

Despite everyone putting down his jumping the horse still hasn't fallen he's an out an out stayer and will out stay the lot of them just like he did last year.

premierstone

Sammo13 wrote: »

Mr Jingle, Kauto is very unlikely to run, Long Run is one to oppose, form not great, Grand Crus not sure to run, Burton Port needs to back up last run and improve a stone. For you to say Synchronized will be lucky to finish in first 6 is laughable, Welsh and Lexus winner, 10/1 is a nice price... Think of the placed horses over the years, sir rembrandt, hedgehunter, turpin green... 10/1 ew maybe bigger on the day... It opinons this game :rolleyes:

If the forecast is right Sammo the ground will be good to Firm on the Friday, Synchronised will not appreciate that ground and that Lexus was one of the weakest Grade ones in the last 10 years.

Kauto is not very likely to not run, he is 50/50, Long Run is defending champ and has improved every run this season, Burton Port needs to improve a stone to finish ahead of synchronised?? Then you have Weird Al, Quel Esprit and Midnight Chase in the mix, I would agree he'll do well to be placed, top 6 fair enough, but there is better value at the prices.

Sammo13

Come off it... you reckon long runs form is good, rated 182 and Geraghty basically let Long Run win the last day in Newbury, I reckon Long Run is running to 170/172, Burton Port is 160 but good to get to 170 with improvement.
Now Synchronised is rate 168, won on good ground around leopardstown and beat the fav for the ryanair handy, I agree a Lexus and Hennessy were poor fields but Synchronised is improving.. Going by opinons here he'll ease on the day, may be 16's..:)

hucklebuck

Sammo13 wrote: »

Come off it... you reckon long runs form is good, rated 182 and Geraghty basically let Long Run win the last day in Newbury, I reckon Long Run is running to 170/172, Burton Port is 160 but good to get to 170 with improvement.
Now Synchronised is rate 168, won on good ground around leopardstown and beat the fav for the ryanair handy, I agree a Lexus and Hennessy were poor fields but Synchronised is improving.. Going by opinons here he'll ease on the day, may be 16's..:)

Not sure if this is a wind up

Draw a line through Long Runs first run as he was always going to come on for it. His second run was <2 lengths behind Kauto who achieved a 183 mark and if the race was 100 yards further he would have passed Kauto.

Synchronised will have to find at least a stone to be competitive, might stay past a few but cant see him place.

Burton Port looks very interesting and Geraghty looked very easy on him, Geraghty also said he is a better horse than he was two years ago. Sure he has to improve but I think he will improve plenty for that run, 10lbs would put him bang there with Long Run.

premierstone

hucklebuck wrote: »

Burton Port looks very interesting and Geraghty looked very easy on him, Geraghty also said he is a better horse than he was two years ago. Sure he has to improve but I think he will improve plenty for that run, 10lbs would put him bang there with Long Run.

If he doesnt bounce he is a definite player although I know a few have said that Geraghty could have won the last day if he really pushed him, my take on it was that Long Run just idled in front and would have found a bit more if needed.

Slattsy

premierstone wrote: »

If he doesnt bounce he is a definite player although I know a few have said that Geraghty could have won the last day if he really pushed him, my take on it was that Long Run just idled in front and would have found a bit more if needed.

Watch Geraghty over the last again, he lost about 5 lenghts as he stopped riding. If McCoy or Walsh was on BP he'd have won.
I'd be concerned about him bouncing but he's a serious player in a ****e GC !! :cool:

hucklebuck

premierstone wrote: »

If he doesnt bounce he is a definite player although I know a few have said that Geraghty could have won the last day if he really pushed him, my take on it was that Long Run just idled in front and would have found a bit more if needed.

Bounce is a worry alright but even then the rest of them could be coming around the bend as Long Run crosses the line so Burton could well place anyway.

To my eye it looked like Geraghty even gave a couple of pulls on the reigns on the way into the last two.

Long Run is a mile off where I was hoping he would be this year and it is tormenting me to think that Denman, Imperial Commander and possibly Kauto won't be here to test him.

I would hate if he had it all his way this year, sickening seeing Imperial Commander belting one coming down the hill and immediately disappearing out the back, he looked ready to turn the screw and put pressure on Long Run.

Sammo13

Kauto won the KG in the middle of the race, out jumped Long Run and Kauto tired over the last furlong, Long Run stayed on but can't have him as 182 horse. Don't get me wrong, LR will be fav and 3m 2f suits him down to the ground but 13/8 no thanks.

Im trying to look at value here, not who is the best horse but who may deliver on the day and the 2 horses who may improve best are Burton Port and Synchronised.

Morgans

i don't mind Nicholls lying to the punters as I didnt have a bet. However, hopefully those who see him as the epitome of the modern trainer willing to open arms to the media will think twice about before spouting that nonsense again. I certainly would be pissed if I had bet on him last saturday on the back of his false report.

hucklebuck

Sammo13 wrote: »

Kauto won the KG in the middle of the race, out jumped Long Run and Kauto tired over the last furlong, Long Run stayed on but can't have him as 182 horse.

Kauto won it over the trip, he jumped like a stag all the way around and kept the pressure on Long Run.

He beat Denman 7 lengths last year, what rating would you give Denman around Cheltenham?

Sammo13

hucklebuck wrote: »

Kauto won it over the trip, he jumped like a stag all the way around and kept the pressure on Long Run.

He beat Denman 7 lengths last year, what rating would you give Denman around Cheltenham?

Remember Denman won the Hennessy and then Nicholls thought they'd miss Gold Cup with set back, Denman ran a cracker last year and LR was brillant, well deserved winner, but he is not in the same form this year..

hucklebuck

Sammo13 wrote: »

Remember Denman won the Hennessy and then Nicholls thought they'd miss Gold Cup with set back, Denman ran a cracker last year and LR was brillant, well deserved winner, but he is not in the same form this year..

What rating would you give him then? He might be 2/3 lbs worse off this year but not much more and he is better at Cheltenham.

Sammo13

13/8 Long Run (beaten twice and average in last race)
7/2 last year and gave Kauto a good beating in KG...

I'm talking about value here... I wouldn't put people off Weird Al, Burton Port or Synchronised..

I

Sammo13

hucklebuck wrote: »

What rating would you give him then? He might be 2/3 lbs worse off this year but not much more and he is better at Cheltenham.

He was 183 probably last year, can't believe he is 1 lb less this year..

premierstone

Sammo13 wrote: »

13/8 Long Run (beaten twice and average in last race)
7/2 last year and gave Kauto a good beating in KG...

I'm talking about value here... I wouldn't put people off Weird Al, Burton Port or Synchronised..

I

Your been very selective with your stats Sammo, he was beaten twice by a horse so far ahead of anything he will face in the GC, if Kauto misses the race, and conditions will be more in he's favour in Chelt, and Kauto this year is not the same horse as last year he has regained hes form.

NaiveMelodies

hucklebuck wrote: »

Well how about last nights preview at Westmanstown, Ruby on the stage and Nicholls by phone, Ruby said he wouldn't back him but gave reasons as him being a 12 year old. Nicholls rang in and said he was in good order when he clearly wasn't.

They said this to a crowd of around 600 racing fans a week after he fell and they must have known they were making the announcement today, do you think this is right?

No its not right, but I'd imagine it was down to some ridiculous optimism held by Nicholls and co with regard Kauto's fall. I'd also be fairly positive that last night, the agreement between him and his owners was that nothing would be said, which is the point I'm trying to make (Horse>Trainer>Owner>>>>>>>>punter)
And whatever happened this morning regarding Kauto's condition, that raised further doubt, would have more than likely involved the agreement that they'd let the public know.

Also, Would it have been fair to make the announcement to 600 gamblers, who could log straight onto their betfair account and lay the fcuk out of Kauto, right there, right then?
I think the official manner of telling the world through the Trainers personal websites is a bit more appropriate.

And what happens right, if Nicholls tweets the day after Kauto's fall, when he doesn't trully know the full extent of any injuries, and everyone goes aboard the Kauto ship and start smashing into Long Run & co and low and behold Kauto recovers and 3 weeks later, wins his 3rd Gold Cup, and the punters moan and moan and moan and berate Nicholls for trying to get a better price for Kauto, questioning if he ever did fall.

NaiveMelodies

Morgans wrote: »

i don't mind Nicholls lying to the punters as I didnt have a bet. However, hopefully those who see him as the epitome of the modern trainer willing to open arms to the media will think twice about before spouting that nonsense again. I certainly would be pissed if I had bet on him last saturday on the back of his false report.

I'd have to agree with you here, as I said earlier, there aren't many angels in Racing, but personally, am sick of hearing people bashing trainers for this, that and the other, it's just the way the game is and forever will be.

Sammo13

premierstone wrote: »

Your been very selective with your stats Sammo, he was beaten twice by a horse so far ahead of anything he will face in the GC, if Kauto misses the race, and conditions will be more in he's favour in Chelt, and Kauto this year is not the same horse as last year he has regained hes form.

New

Yes I am, but do you think LR is showing top form, Newbury race was not great..
No disgrace coming 2nd to Kauto, but he is 4 yrs younger and natural improvement should had him to beat Kauto..
Cheltenham will suit LR alright, no Kauto in field as well, but for me he was rated 179 going into GC last year and now 182??

Got to take him premierstone!

Sammo13

**Got to take him on**

premierstone

Sammo13 wrote: »

New

Yes I am, but do you think LR is showing top form, Newbury race was not great..
No disgrace coming 2nd to Kauto, but he is 4 yrs younger and natural improvement should had him to beat Kauto..
Cheltenham will suit LR alright, no Kauto in field as well, but for me he was rated 179 going into GC last year and now 182??

Got to take him premierstone!

Maybe I have a blind spot for the horse I have been a massive fan since he's Feltham win, tbh if Kauto doesnt run he doesnt need to improve to win, infact he would still have plenty in hand, he has been trained all year with this one race in mind. I dont think he is getting enough credit for the Newbury win, he was given 10lbs to decent opposition and I thought the water jump apart he jumped as good as he ever has.

I can see why people want to take him on, dodgy juming, amateur jockey , beaten twice this season and very short for a Championship race, but I dont agree in trying to find an alternative just because you dont like backing shorties, the rest of this field minus Kauto and Grand Crus are not in he's league.

Sammo13

premierstone wrote: »

I can see why people want to take him on, dodgy juming, amateur jockey , beaten twice this season and very short for a Championship race, but I dont agree in trying to find an alternative just because you dont like backing shorties, the rest of this field minus Kauto and Grand Crus are not in he's league.

I agree KS and GC out of the race, he should win.. I'd love to see GC run if Kauto misses out (which must be better than even).

Grand Crus was 4 seconds quicker at xmas than Kauto and I know they are totally different races etc.. but GC would make it a very interesting race.

You ask me SS 5/4 or LR 13/8, I'd go SS as less to beat, very poor Arkle..

Why I like sychronised is everybody said he needs soft, doesn't have the pace to go the gallop on good ground, Lexus was slow run etc... May be right, but every chance he'll be decent price on betfair and I'll have to get on, hedgehunter comes to mind chasing home WOA in a poor GC in 2006..

Nulty

Morgans wrote: »

i don't mind Nicholls lying to the punters as I didnt have a bet. However, hopefully those who see him as the epitome of the modern trainer willing to open arms to the media will think twice about before spouting that nonsense again. I certainly would be pissed if I had bet on him last saturday on the back of his false report.

Totally agree. I would also be pissed if I backed him after being told he was fine and them knowing he had a heavy fall they were concerned about. Luckily I didn't but still...

hucklebuck

only1stevo wrote: »

Also, Would it have been fair to make the announcement to 600 gamblers, who could log straight onto their betfair account and lay the fcuk out of Kauto, right there, right then?

You are missing the point mate, he could have said kauto is ok he took a tumble schooling and we are keeping an eye on him.

Mullins said Quevega got a bang schooling seems fine and no need to worry about backing her.

convert

HigginsJ wrote: »

Why would u need to be schooling Kauto Star 3 weeks before the Gold Cup? Is it just me or is that adding an unnecessary risk to his preparations.

Not as though a 12yo is going to improve his jumping? Maybe im just taking a simplistic view

Hope he makes it.

Is this actually a serioius question? Would you ask Derval O'Rourke why she was schooling herself 3 weeks before the Olympics?

Some of the obvious reasons are: keeping his eye in and jumping muscles in order...

premierstone

Sammo13 wrote: »

You ask me SS 5/4 or LR 13/8, I'd go SS as less to beat, very poor Arkle.

Your a hard man to please if this is a poor Arkle, yes Sprinter may make it look that way on the day, as he could be the new Moscow, only better :eek:, but there is depth here that I cant remember in any Arkle that Ive seen - A horse that finished second in a champion Hurdle, the 2 previous winners of the Supreme Novice and the winner of the champiomn bumper 2 years ago all gone novice chasing.

Sammo13

premierstone wrote: »

Sammo13 wrote: »

You ask me SS 5/4 or LR 13/8, I'd go SS as less to beat, very poor Arkle.

Your a hard man to please if this is a poor Arkle, yes Sprinter may make it look that way on the day, as he could be the new Moscow, only better :eek:, but there is depth here that I cant remember in any Arkle that Ive seen - A horse that finished second in a champion Hurdle, the 2 previous winners of the Supreme Novice and the winner of the champiomn bumper 2 years ago all gone novice chasing.

Graham Cunningham said the same hot race this arkle, Peddlers was excellent over hurdles,form not there over fences, maybe going to jewson?? menorah gone backwards over fences, al ferof is best form in book. No Irish 2 milers.. SS 5/4 is value compared to LR. Bad arkle is harsh, overrated so..

mdwexford

Sammo13 wrote: »

I agree KS and GC out of the race, he should win.. I'd love to see GC run if Kauto misses out (which must be better than even).

Grand Crus was 4 seconds quicker at xmas than Kauto and I know they are totally different races etc.. but GC would make it a very interesting race.

You ask me SS 5/4 or LR 13/8, I'd go SS as less to beat, very poor Arkle..

Why I like sychronised is everybody said he needs soft, doesn't have the pace to go the gallop on good ground, Lexus was slow run etc... May be right, but every chance he'll be decent price on betfair and I'll have to get on, hedgehunter comes to mind chasing home WOA in a poor GC in 2006..

What planet are you living on.

The rest of your tripe I bit my lip but cmon now, its looking like the best Arkle of the past 10 years or more.

Sprinter Sacre who is the best prospect since Kauto Star
Peddlers Cross second in last years Champion Hurdle
Al Ferof last years Supreme Novices winner
Cue Card last years sup nov fav and a very decent horse
Menorah who was almost fav for last years Champion Hurdle
Blackstairmountain who was a g1 novice hurdle winner and has won a g1 novice chase this season.

Its a top class renewal.

The Gold Cup is the worst Ive seen since I have been watching racing.
If Kauto doesnt turn up Long Run can amble round and win as he likes beating below par opposition.

UnitedIrishman

hucklebuck wrote: »

You are missing the point mate, he could have said kauto is ok he took a tumble schooling and we are keeping an eye on him.

Mullins said Quevega got a bang schooling seems fine and no need to worry about backing her.

Just the mention of having fallen in schooling would've set alarm bells off in the heads of punters. There was very little else I think Nicholls could have done if he was to be fair. If he came out and said it the day after the fall, the people who backed it the day of the fall would be complaining saying "why didn't he tell us that night??".