installation hardware for a t90 toroidal dish?

simonckenyon

i've ordered my dish from germany and it is on its way.

i was wondering if anyone had a recommendation for the installation hardware?

should i use one of those L shaped brackets or a T/K bracket pair with a pole?

i suspect the latter as the thing would appear to be quite heavy.

any recommendations for suppliers or said hardware?

tapfit2004

i used a T/K bracket pair with a pole on mine. i've had no problems so far.

theres a good bit of weight in the dish when theres a few lnb's on it so an L bracket would need good fixings in the wall.

simonckenyon

tapfit2004 wrote: »

i used a T/K bracket pair with a pole on mine. i've had no problems so far.

theres a good bit of weight in the dish when theres a few lnb's on it so an L bracket would need good fixings in the wall.

do you mind telling me what size T/K brackets you are using and what is the orientation of the wall that they are attached to?

my concern is how far from the wall i need to place the pole. the wall i will be attaching it to runs almost exactly east-west and i will need to orient the dish to point to one side. the more clearance i give it by getting bigger brackets will create more of a lever effect.

excollier

24" T&K should do the trick, that way the dish should be able to go as far as right angle to the wall, although I am not sure how wide the dish is, I'm sure it's less than 4' wide.

Zardoz

excollier wrote: »

24" T&K should do the trick, that way the dish should be able to go as far as right angle to the wall, although I am not sure how wide the dish is, I'm sure it's less than 4' wide.

The rear reflector is 107cm wide and 97cm high so should be ok for 24" brackets.
Bear in mind the T90's are a very heavy dish,14kg ,and a 24" offset is alot of load on the dish,i.e law of the lever.

tapfit2004

simonckenyon wrote: »

do you mind telling me what size T/K brackets you are using and what is the orientation of the wall that they are attached to?

my concern is how far from the wall i need to place the pole. the wall i will be attaching it to runs almost exactly east-west and i will need to orient the dish to point to one side. the more clearance i give it by getting bigger brackets will create more of a lever effect.

the brackets i used were about 18-20 inches.

i didn't measure them as the wall looks directly south and i was looking to get 19e - 22w or there abouts.

i've 9 lnb's on it at the moment. i managed to get 28e as well without moving the dish but its not great in bad weather, all the rest are fine.

zg3409

Also use a large diameter thick walled pole. It depends on the T and K brackets but a 2 or 3 inch pole (depending on what the dish can cope with) will also help grip the dish better, with less chance of it turning in strong winds. The thicker the pole also means you can tighten the brackets on the pole without fear of it bending inwards.

Yes you need to consider the larger the standoff, the greater the lever effect, but the further the standoff the more the dish can be swung around sideways to look down the side of the house. Use the dishpointer website to see what angle the most easterly and westerly satellite is arriving at compared to your home, and so find where the dish will need to be centred. If the dish is to be pointed exactly 90 degrees from the back of the house then use a shorter standoff.

Don't use plastic plugs/coachbolts. Use proper branded rawlbolts. Proper branded ones have a label on them that tells you the diameter of the hole to be drilled.

Also consider you may want more dishes/tv aerials in the future and more cables into/out of the house. Ideally place the dish half way between the T and K bracket for maximum strength.

simonckenyon

thanks for all the help.

the dish arrived today. i bought it from hm-sat.de last sunday. good service.

it is indeed a monster.

i will go the T/K route. vanjak sell some nice ones.

i will post some photos later.

Greenman

Here's how I installed mine. The pole is homemade by a pal.:)

syboit

simonckenyon wrote: »

thanks for all the help.

the dish arrived today. i bought it from hm-sat.de last sunday. good service.

it is indeed a monster.

i will go the T/K route. vanjak sell some nice ones.

i will post some photos later.

Hi,

Will probably go down the same route as yourself, just figuring out my lnbs before purchasing from hm-sat. Would be very interested in seeing some of your pic's and which brackets you went for in the end.

thanks

simonckenyon

and it works.

i was 30 feet up in the air on some scaffolding that i borrowed from my brother. as i am really, really, really scared of heights this was quiet a challenge. but my wife said "where there is a will, there is a way".

having waited over 3 years to buy this dish, i was not going to let it defeat me.

i manhandled it up the scaffolding using a role and with some help from my son pushing it away from scaffolding as i hauled it up. i managed to get it onto the pole only to discover that i had some of the cables routed incorrectly and this meant that i had to lift it back off the pole with one hand and move the cables with the other. the adrenalin headache that i got after i did this was quiet something.

today in the rain, with my son in front of the tv on the phone and me up the scaffolding with a compass (well actually my android phone) and some spanners; i managed to get astra 28.2E to lock. and lo and behold all the other sats just plain worked. i had a small meter but it was pretty useless. we ended up using the signal indicator on my sky box.

well i tell a lie. i cannot get the SaorSat to do anything for me. and i havent scanned 19E yet. i suspect that is a function of kaffeine and misconfiguration (because i am using a toroid and circular polarisation). but 28.2E, 13E, 4.8E and 5W all work.

but i'm not going to change anything tomorrow as i have a day of rugby ahead.

i took photographs at every step of the project and will post them on flickr or somewhere else on monday.

simonckenyon

here is a photo

excollier

Impressive!
Just one question, why so high up? Line of sight?

simonckenyon

excollier wrote: »

Impressive!
Just one question, why so high up? Line of sight?

indeed. i had a tree in the front garden which was blocking 28.2E.
it was removed for other reasons and then i discovered that the problem was a tree across the road. so i had to go up about 5 feet to clear the top of it.

i also wanteded to get above the roof of the house next door in order to see 5W.

syboit

simonckenyon wrote: »

indeed. i had a tree in the front garden which was blocking 28.2E.
it was removed for other reasons and then i discovered that the problem was a tree across the road. so i had to go up about 5 feet to clear the top of it.

i also wanteded to get above the roof of the house next door in order to see 5W.

That scaffolding is some height allright, though probably lot easier to work on the dish instead of using a ladder. Looking forward to the extra pic's

thanks.

Manc-Red

simonckenyon wrote: »

here is a photo

Impressive work m8 - All sats coming in strong?

zg3409

simonckenyon wrote: »

and it works.
i cannot get the SaorSat to do anything for me. and i havent scanned 19E yet. i suspect that is a function of kaffeine and misconfiguration (because i am using a toroid and circular polarisation)

Normally the recommendation for Saorsat is to use:
"fake" frequency 10.765 vertical

however with the t90 it changes the circular polarisation due to the double reflector so what you need is

10.765 HORIZONTAL . Also a Sky box does not have the required symbol rate. The box also needs to be HD. Another thing is at 20Ghz the dish appears to be larger, so it will be far more sensitive to position than other LNB's.

You are probably the FIRST PERSON EVER to try Saorsat on a T90, so let us know how you get on!

simonckenyon

i put some photographs of the installation process up on flickr.

i hope i am not breaking any rules by posting the link here.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12430633@N03/sets/72157629631002405/

i pick up all six sats fine (28.2e, 19.2e, 13.0e 9.0e, 4.8e and 5.0w)

simonckenyon

zg3409 wrote: »

Normally the recommendation for Saorsat is to use:
"fake" frequency 10.765 vertical

however with the t90 it changes the circular polarisation due to the double reflector so what you need is

10.765 HORIZONTAL . Also a Sky box does not have the required symbol rate. The box also needs to be HD. Another thing is at 20Ghz the dish appears to be larger, so it will be far more sensitive to position than other LNB's.

You are probably the FIRST PERSON EVER to try Saorsat on a T90, so let us know how you get on!

didn't want to be first!

anyway, it works fine. i get a strong signal (according to my freesat box). you are correct about the polarisation.

i have no way to judge other dishes. with this one i set the skew, put the lnbs on the bar as per httpsatlex.us/ and swung the dish until i got a signal from astra28.2e and all the other burst into life.

maybe i was very lucky.

Zardoz

simonckenyon wrote: »

i put some photographs of the installation process up on flickr.

i hope i am not breaking any rules by posting the link here.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12430633@N03/sets/72157629631002405/

i pick up all six sats fine (28.2e, 19.2e, 13.0e 9.0e, 4.8e and 5.0w)

Fantastic pictures ,extremely detailed step by step guide .
Really useful for anyone thinking of getting a T90.

You did a very neat and tidy job .

The coke can is the new universal unit of measurement

rco2000

Hi folks, a little off topic but if anyone is looking for the wall mount tailored specifically for the T90 (does not come as standard with the dish), I have one for sale on adverts.ie...please see link below:
http://www.adverts.ie/satellite/wall-mount-stand-for-wave-toroidal-t90-satellite-dish/1457360?utm_source=email&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=AdCommented

RimaNTSS

simonckenyon! Good job! Why you are excluding 0,8*W, 23,5*E, 16*E and others from your list? Did you think about changing all nuts&bolts to INOX ones?

syboit

simonckenyon wrote: »

i put some photographs of the installation process up on flickr.

i hope i am not breaking any rules by posting the link here.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12430633@N03/sets/72157629631002405/

i pick up all six sats fine (28.2e, 19.2e, 13.0e 9.0e, 4.8e and 5.0w)

thanks for those picks, putting in my own order tommorow and your pics are very useful.

I'm planning on the following,

28E, 26E, 23.5E, 19E, 16E, 13E, 9E, 4.8E, 0.8W, 5W

marco2068

simonckenyon wrote: »

i put some photographs of the installation process up on flickr.

i hope i am not breaking any rules by posting the link here.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12430633@N03/sets/72157629631002405/

i pick up all six sats fine (28.2e, 19.2e, 13.0e 9.0e, 4.8e and 5.0w)

whitch sat did you set up as your central sat?

I must post some pics of my ground based t90:rolleyes: sometime this year:D

rolion

Get the T90 as 0.8W as main / central sat,others just following nicely in the right side !
get a diseqc switch 8-1 and all working fine there...

just seen your photos...you went thorugh the wall with all those wires !??? why not diseq switch outside AND then inside going with a single wire !!!??

banie01

rolion wrote: »

Get the T90 as 0.8W as main / central sat,others just following nicely in the right side !
get a diseqc switch 8-1 and all working fine there...

just seen your photos...you went thorugh the wall with all those wires !??? why not diseq switch outside AND then inside going with a single wire !!!??

I was just about to make the same post!
OP great work on the install, really good and concise pics too!
But why on Earth would you take all those wires through the wall?
I'd have mounted the switch(2 in my case) to the dish and taken 2 wires down(Dual tuner).

Edit:
Just thinking, I missed the fact that maybe you distribute the signal via your attic our similar(For the 28.2 quad) but still why take all the cabling inside before adding the switch?

syboit

banie01 wrote: »

I was just about to make the same post!
OP great work on the install, really good and concise pics too!
But why on Earth would you take all those wires through the wall?
I'd have mounted the switch(2 in my case) to the dish and taken 2 wires down(Dual tuner).

Edit:
Just thinking, I missed the fact that maybe you distribute the signal via your attic our similar(For the 28.2 quad) but still why take all the cabling inside before adding the switch?

Just wondering , sure if you have the room to bring all the cables into the attic wouldnt it make more sense, it might be a lot easier for changing the diseqc switch later or if you were adding/changing whats connected ?

Would also like to know which Sat you centered it on.

thanks...

simonckenyon

marco2068 wrote: »

whitch sat did you set up as your central sat?

I must post some pics of my ground based t90:rolleyes: sometime this year:D

i centred on 11.6E as per the calculator

simonckenyon

rolion wrote: »

Get the T90 as 0.8W as main / central sat,others just following nicely in the right side !
get a diseqc switch 8-1 and all working fine there...

just seen your photos...you went thorugh the wall with all those wires !??? why not diseq switch outside AND then inside going with a single wire !!!??

i know, i know

i have a multiswitch in my hall electricty cupboard. this distributes 28.2e and terrestrial around the house.

in the attic i have the 28.2e looping back out and down to the switch. the remainder i have connected to a diseqc (4 into 1 for now - 8 into 1 on order).

why did i not put the diseqc switch outside and only route 1 wire in? to be honest i am a bit of a tv junkie. don't really watch a whole lot. but i love playing around with the tech. i have quite a few tuner cards. 10-15 at a guess. i have a few machines up in the attic and the plan would be to stick some tuners into them and run a mythtv backend up there. i already have a couple in the sitting room. putting the switch outside would limit me to recording a single channel.

like i say, a pretty stupid reason. but it's mine and i'm sticking to it.

Greenman

Greenman wrote: »

Here's how I installed mine. The pole is homemade by a pal.:)

Added my CM 1.2m today to the pole. This will be used for Nilesat which is
very strong these days.

Regards JD.:)

Zardoz

simonckenyon wrote: »

i put some photographs of the installation process up on flickr.

i hope i am not breaking any rules by posting the link here.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12430633@N03/sets/72157629631002405/

i pick up all six sats fine (28.2e, 19.2e, 13.0e 9.0e, 4.8e and 5.0w)

I assembled my T90 today ,I used your fantastic pictures to help me as the instructions provided with the dish are rubbish .
Its a monster of a dish ,no way I will wall mount it ,ridiculous weight .

Greenman

Zardoz wrote: »

Its a monster of a dish ,no way I will wall mount it ,ridiculous weight .

Horses for courses.:)

Zardoz

Greenman wrote: »

Horses for courses.:)

Quite true but the back of my house is fairly exposed and the missus would freak if I put up a mount on the back wall like yours.:)
I wouldnt sleep well with it on the wall.

I am going to ground mount it at the bottom of the garden in between some trees where it will be nicely sheltered and not an eyesore.
I'll run the cables under the lawn for 20 yards through alkathene piping .
Its not an ideal solution but the best I can think of due to the layout of the garden .

dodzy

Zardoz wrote: »

Its a monster of a dish ,no way I will wall mount it ,ridiculous weight as the wife would not be impressed and I would be forced to remove it, as she wears the trousers.

FYP Zardoz

Zardoz

dodzy wrote: »

FYP Zardoz

Lol.
I am actually surprised because when she saw the T90 she didnt seem to mind ,I was fearing the worst.
I had a 1m motorised dish before and I think she got used to it ,in fact dare I say liked it .:)

Greenman

Zardoz wrote: »

Quite true but the back of my house is fairly exposed and the missus would freak if I put up a mount on the back wall like yours.:)
I wouldnt sleep well with it on the wall.

I am going to ground mount it at the bottom of the garden in between some trees where it will be nicely sheltered and not an eyesore.
I'll run the cables under the lawn for 20 yards through alkathene piping .
Its not an ideal solution but the best I can think of due to the layout of the garden .

I understand what you mean, I'm lucky as my wife watches only Sat TV namely the Arab channels, the TD 110 facing Arabsat and the CM 120 facing Nilesat are for her, the T 90 is for us and the kiddies.

The sat pole is bolted to the wall which is concrete on the otherside of the wall with threaded bar used to to secure the pole. I sleep well at night and would be very surprised to see any problems.

The way things are setup we don't see the tri dish config unless we want to. The neighbours who see it couldn't give a monkey as they are just passing through and spend most of their life indoors.

JD.

Zardoz

Can anyone give me an idea of how big a hole I'd need to dig for the 60mm scaffold pole which is about 7 feet long.
What is the best way to secure the pole ?
I was thinking of putting rocks around it to hold it in place ,get it plumb ,then pour in cement ?

zg3409

You need steel too, not only cement. It stops the cement cracking or something.

The size of the hole does depend on how wet the ground is, the composition of the ground (amount of rocks etc). it would also be a good idea to stop a few inches before the top, so you can cover it with topsoil and grass.

As for the cement you need a "strong mix" as opposed to a normal cement mixture.

If it's only for a t90 mounted right on the grass then it does not need to be big at all. I would say 2ft x 2ft x 2ft. It needs to "lock" into the ground so if the ground is not hard you may need to go deeper. Consider also how the cables will run to the dish. It might be worth putting in a pipe for them.

Better go for overkill rather than have it fail. Also consider you might want to put a different dish on it one day. Check for sewer mains, water mains, gas, power to the shed in the garden etc before digging

See:
http://www.geo-orbit.org/sizepgs/grndpole.html

dodzy

zg3409 wrote: »

You need steel too, not only cement. It stops the cement cracking or something.

The size of the hole does depend on how wet the ground is, the composition of the ground (amount of rocks etc). it would also be a good idea to stop a few inches before the top, so you can cover it with topsoil and grass.

As for the cement you need a "strong mix" as opposed to a normal cement mixture.

If it's only for a t90 mounted right on the grass then it does not need to be big at all. I would say 2ft x 2ft x 2ft. It needs to "lock" into the ground so if the ground is not hard you may need to go deeper. Consider also how the cables will run to the dish. It might be worth putting in a pipe for them.

Better go for overkill rather than have it fail. Also consider you might want to put a different dish on it one day. Check for sewer mains, water mains, gas, power to the shed in the garden etc before digging

See:
http://www.geo-orbit.org/sizepgs/grndpole.html

All good advice from zg above. I wouldn't bother withe the steel however. Handmix Gravel, sand & cement ( any builders providers ) 4:2:1 with water (forming a concrete mix ) and pour into the hole, ensuring the pole is plumb supported. Allow to set. Job done.

RimaNTSS

I have cemented pole deeper than 1 meter, used more than 100 kg of concrete and stones.

dodzy

RimaNTSS wrote: »

I have cemented pole deeper than 1 meter, used more than 100 kg of concrete and stones.

Rima, your work, as always, is class. Must have cost a few € for the metalwork

Zardoz

zg3409 wrote: »

You need steel too, not only cement. It stops the cement cracking or something.

The size of the hole does depend on how wet the ground is, the composition of the ground (amount of rocks etc). it would also be a good idea to stop a few inches before the top, so you can cover it with topsoil and grass.

As for the cement you need a "strong mix" as opposed to a normal cement mixture.

If it's only for a t90 mounted right on the grass then it does not need to be big at all. I would say 2ft x 2ft x 2ft. It needs to "lock" into the ground so if the ground is not hard you may need to go deeper. Consider also how the cables will run to the dish. It might be worth putting in a pipe for them.

Better go for overkill rather than have it fail. Also consider you might want to put a different dish on it one day. Check for sewer mains, water mains, gas, power to the shed in the garden etc before digging

See:
http://www.geo-orbit.org/sizepgs/grndpole.html

Excellent info zg3409 just what I was looking for.
The link you included is very good too.

All good advice from zg above. I wouldn't bother with the steel however. Handmix Gravel, sand & cement ( any builders providers ) 4:2:1 with water (forming a concrete mix ) and pour into the hole, ensuring the pole is plumb supported. Allow to set. Job done.

Sounds like a plan .;)

I have started the hole ,its at the bottom of the garden,mostly just soil and tree roots .
Its near the septic tank but there are no pipes near where the dish will be so ok to dig.

I tried to get the dish bracket to sit on the 60mm pole but it wouldnt go on fully,the pole is too bloody wide ,I'll have to smoothen it down .
Was a struggle to get it back off it .:(

RimaNTSS

dodzy wrote: »

Must have cost a few € for the metalwork

It could cost a lot if I did not have a friend-metalworker.

Zardoz

At long last I am going to move my T90 from its temporary position in the garden to the back ,south facing ,wall of the house.
The plan to locate it at the bottom of the garden hit a snag when I found a septic pipe when digging and had to abandon ship.:(

I have two options ,either use the standard T90 mount or use a TK bracket and have the 6 ft pole rest on the concrete footpath to take the load of the dish.
I get ferocious winds blowing up the valley towards my back so I want to have a sturdy setup.

I think the TK brackets or a H bracket is the best option .
http://www.tvtrade.ie/18-h-galvanised-wall-bracket.html
I have been looking at 12" TK brackets but I think they may be too short .
My house faces due south and I would be centering on 13e ,so the dish would be turned ~20 degrees toward the house.
I want to do as neat a job as possible but dont want to sell myself short.

I was thinking of using rawlpugs like these
http://www.tvtrade.ie/shield-anchor-projecting-bolt-m8x25mm.html or Thunderbolts like this http://www.tvtrade.ie/thunderbolt-m8x60-1s.html
The wall I am drilling is dashed so I wont know which is solid block and which is mortar.

Anyone have any recommendations or feedback ?
Thanks