[Article] American Bus Revival

Conway635

Very interesting article on the BBC about how Americans view bus travel.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16881957

Interesting to note that curbside long-distance departures are viewed as classier than those leaving from bus stations, whereas we would view it the other way round.

I guess the film and TV image of bus stations as dens of the unsavory is just too hard to break.

C635

Run_to_da_hills

Grayhound Bus stations in the States are the pits.

dowlingm

Toronto's main intercity bus station is dire at platform level but there's talk of relocating it to new premises near the train station. As it stands I only use Greyhound when absolutely necessary but would consider new operators with modern equipment like Megabus.

Yonge Street

Bus stations in all major cities seem to attract the dregs of society. It's somewhere for homeless people to sleep or harass travellers for spare change. This is probably why they are usually equipped with uncomfortable seating, so as to discourage loungers.

Toronto bus station isn't the worst I've seen. At least it has a decent shop downstairs and relatively clean toilets. New York was the worst. I remember waiting to catch a late-night Greyhound bus from there and I was the only white person in a waiting room full of homeless blacks, curled up on the seats with blankets and black plastic bags full of their belongings. They smelled, were dirty and obviously haven't washed in days. I made a promise to myself - never again. I'd rather pay double to fly to my destination with a better class of people rather than get on a bus and feel uncomfortable and unsafe for the entire journey. To make matters worse, it was around the time the news story of the Greyhound bus killer who decpaitated a fellow passenger. News story

dowlingm

Yonge Street (hey neighbour) I had to use serious persuasion to get the Mrs to use Aircoach while in Ireland - since that incident she is very anti-long distance buses, and would never ever do so unaccompanied.

Yonge Street

Buses in Ireland generally aren't as bad due to the shorter distances involved. Yes they still attract the junkies and social welfare travel pass crowd, but at least you're not forced to tolerate them for more than an hour or two.

As for Aircoach, I found them a pleasure to use in the past. Given the choice, I'd always opt for a private bus operator over Bus Eireann so the free travel pass junkies can't harass me. I don't blame your wife for being hesitant to get on a bus after that incident - I wouldn't advise anybody to use Greyhound while in North America. It's understandable why public transport is seen as for "poor people" over there, as nobody would choose to get the bus unless they couldn't afford anything else.

dowlingm

Long distance rural routes a particular problem since police in rural townships in US and Canada do operate a "here's a bus ticket go be someone else's problem" approach.

bk

Yonge Street wrote: »

Buses in Ireland generally aren't as bad due to the shorter distances involved. Yes they still attract the junkies and social welfare travel pass crowd, but at least you're not forced to tolerate them for more than an hour or two.

Ironically in Ireland the junkies and other folks with free travel passes, rarely take intercity buses. It is usually the train for them!!!

Markcheese

Since when do junkies get free travel pass unless they're on the way back from prison.
Isn't the pass for OAPs . My dad got his last year to much slagging.....

schemingbohemia

Yonge Street wrote: »

Bus stations in all major cities seem to attract the dregs of society. It's somewhere for homeless people to sleep or harass travellers for spare change. This is probably why they are usually equipped with uncomfortable seating, so as to discourage loungers.

Toronto bus station isn't the worst I've seen. At least it has a decent shop downstairs and relatively clean toilets. New York was the worst. I remember waiting to catch a late-night Greyhound bus from there and I was the only white person in a waiting room full of homeless blacks, curled up on the seats with blankets and black plastic bags full of their belongings. They smelled, were dirty and obviously haven't washed in days. I made a promise to myself - never again. I'd rather pay double to fly to my destination with a better class of people rather than get on a bus and feel uncomfortable and unsafe for the entire journey. To make matters worse, it was around the time the news story of the Greyhound bus killer who decpaitated a fellow passenger. News story

Nice bit of casual racism.

With regard to dowlingm presume your wife wouldn't go on a plane after 9/11? One incident of one person being killed is enough to put her off using buses but thousands being crashed into a building didn't put her off plane travel?

Given the city centre to city centre opportunities by bus and rail travel in the US and the entry of Megabus etc into the market it is no wonder people are turning to the bus. A friend of mine from New York visited me while I was in Washington DC and the bus she used seemed very new and clean and was very very cheap. The buses were lined up in a Multi-Storey Car Park beside Union Station so was fine to use.

Seaneh

I used Red Coach while in the Us to get from Orlando to Miami, the bus only had 24 seats, all of which were the same spec as business class airline seats, every seat had a power outlet, there was a host/hostess there to offer you drinks/snacks, toliet was clean and not too small, seats reclined enough so you were pretty much laying back and could get a decent kipp and it was less than half the price of a flight between those cities. They even offer an Atlanta - Miami over night sleeper service which is great value.

On the flip side, I travled from Atlanta to Talahassee on the ground and that was the longest, edgiest 9 hours of my life. The station, in downtown ATL was filthy and had some seriously sketchy looking people hanging around, my bus was full of hobo looking tpyes and people screaming into their mobiles the whole way. Not the best trip I've ever had!


More Red Coach, less greyhound and busses might have a chance in the US with the way Air Fares are over there.

mikemac1

Markcheese wrote: »

Since when do junkies get free travel pass

They are on disability
The pass is not just for OAPs

Eight different categories here that qualify
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/extra_social_welfare_benefits/free_travel.html#l1f4da

My Dublin Bus to Ballyfermot has more pass holders then fare payers many evenings

Yonge Street

schemingbohemia wrote: »

With regard to dowlingm presume your wife wouldn't go on a plane after 9/11? One incident of one person being killed is enough to put her off using buses but thousands being crashed into a building didn't put her off plane travel?

Bus passengers aren't forced to go through the same security screening as airline passengers. There is nothing stopping a lunatic with a knife or gun in his anorak from getting on a Greyhound bus and carrying out a massacre. If you've never travelled on a Greyhound bus in America, I'd repectfully opine that you can't comment. As dowlingm touched upon, the buses are used by rural sheriffs to send trouble-makers out of town. They also tend to attract shady characters trying to run away while keeping a low profile.

Like I said earlier, I'd rather pay double to travel by plane and feel comfortable and safe.

bk

Yonge Street wrote: »

Bus passengers aren't forced to go through the same security screening as airline passengers. There is nothing stopping a lunatic with a knife or gun in his anorak from getting on a Greyhound bus and carrying out a massacre.

LOL, many many times people have purposefully (for testing) or accidentally carried guns on planes , in fact there are thousands of examples a year.

Also nothing stopping a terrorist walking up to the security line and exploding a device there. Or simply walking into any hotel, shopping mall, sports ground and throwing hand grenades and spraying people with an AK47, see recent events in Norway or India.

Hell walking down the street, someone could pull out a knife or sword and kill you there.

You can't spend your life worrying about extremely isolated one off incidents like this.

You are much more likely to be killed in a car crash then on a bus.

schemingbohemia

Yonge Street wrote: »

Bus passengers aren't forced to go through the same security screening as airline passengers. There is nothing stopping a lunatic with a knife or gun in his anorak from getting on a Greyhound bus and carrying out a massacre. If you've never travelled on a Greyhound bus in America, I'd repectfully opine that you can't comment. As dowlingm touched upon, the buses are used by rural sheriffs to send trouble-makers out of town. They also tend to attract shady characters trying to run away while keeping a low profile.

Like I said earlier, I'd rather pay double to travel by plane and feel comfortable and safe.

Well lucky for me that I have travelled in the US on Greyhound - Boston to NYC and back, a long time ago mind.

But because I wasn't frightened of black people for being black and am not a racist I found the journeys fine, not the most comfortable but grand.

Not sure how many "rural" sheriffs there were between Boston and NYC?:rolleyes:

Yonge Street

bk wrote: »

LOL, many many times people have purposefully (for testing) or accidentally carried guns on planes , in fact there are thousands of examples a year.

Also nothing stopping a terrorist walking up to the security line and exploding a device there. Or simply walking into any hotel, shopping mall, sports ground and throwing hand grenades and spraying people with an AK47, see recent events in Norway or India.

Hell walking down the street, someone could pull out a knife or sword and kill you there.

You can't spend your life worrying about extremely isolated one off incidents like this.

You are much more likely to be killed in a car crash then on a bus.

I realise you are being farcical, but a bus is an enclosed space thereby making it impossible to run away from an aggressor, so can't compare it to being attacked on the street. The point I'm making is that passengers are made pass through more security when travelling by plane than by bus - would you not agree?

I'm sure you don't enjoy sitting on a Dublin Bus with a gang of young thugs at the back smoking and playing loud crappy music with their mobile phones. This problem is exacerbated on long-distance bus journeys in America, where you may want to sleep overnight. Cue people's belongings getting robbed, bored and frustrated passengers getting cranky etc

Markcheese

Took a couple of overnight coach trips in argentina a few years ago, wow what a service, the coach station in Beunas Aires was huge, hundreds of bays,major destinations had several classes ,basically cheap, economy, business and first class, but you'd kind of want a bit of comfort on a 12 to 24 hour journey.....

Markcheese

Took a couple of overnight coach trips in argentina a few years ago, wow what a service, the coach station in Beunas Aires was huge, hundreds of bays,major destinations had several classes ,basically cheap, economy, business and first class, but you'd kind of want a bit of comfort on a 12 to 24 hour journey.....

Markcheese

Took a couple of overnight coach trips in argentina a few years ago, wow what a service, the coach station in Beunas Aires was huge, hundreds of bays,major destinations had several classes ,basically cheap, economy, business and first class, but you'd kind of want a bit of comfort on a 12 to 24 hour journey.....

schemingbohemia

Is there an echo in here?

Yonge Street

Oh and schemingbohemia, NYC to Boston is only a 4 hr 20 min journey - hardly long distance by American standards. It takes about the same time to travel from Dublin to Letterkenny on Bus Eireann. Try NYC to Dallas, Texas. Get an overnight bus and let me know how comfortable the journey was.

Horses for courses and all that. You can get the bus, and I'll fly. That way we won't have to sit beside each other.

schemingbohemia

Yonge Street wrote: »

Oh and schemingbohemia, NYC to Boston is only a 4 hr 20 min journey - hardly long distance by American standards. It takes about the same time to travel from Dublin to Letterkenny on Bus Eireann. Try NYC to Dallas, Texas. Get an overnight bus and let me know how comfortable the journey was.

Horses for courses and all that. You can get the bus, and I'll fly. That way we won't have to sit beside each other.

I wouldn't want to sit next to a racist anyway.

Of course it's horses for courses, but given the journey times between Boston and NYC and NYC and DC the bus represents a definite choice given the time it takes to get to and from the airports in those cities.

Thanks but I won't get an overnight coach to make some racist happy.

bk

Yonge Street wrote: »

I realise you are being farcical, but a bus is an enclosed space thereby making it impossible to run away from an aggressor, so can't compare it to being attacked on the street. The point I'm making is that passengers are made pass through more security when travelling by plane than by bus - would you not agree?

No I wasn't been farcical, what I'm talking about is something called Security Theater:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_theater

After 9/11 the US government spent billions setting up the TSA and brought in farcical security measures like no liquids and body scanners that make you no safer and after 10 years haven't caught a single terrorist.

They didn't catch the shoe bomber, they didn't catch the pants bomber.

Also almost daily we hear stories about airlines having to make unscheduled stops (often at Shannon airport) to have passengers who are intoxicated and fighting taken off and arrested.

I'd much rather be on a bus when someone loses it and goes beserk then on a plane, at least the bus can pull over and you can get out. No such luck on a plane, you have to fight the person or maybe they will try to open a door or do something also equally mad.

What I'm saying is that you have bought into the whole US media fear mongering bull****. You have bought the lie that flying is safe from terrorists. Your more worried about a ridiculously small chance of being attacked on a bus, when you are in fact far more likely to be killed in a car accident then on a bus.

dowlingm

schemingbohemia wrote: »

I wouldn't want to sit next to a racist anyway.

:rolleyes:

Markcheese

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Is there an echo in here?

No i just have a habit of repeating myself.... Repeating myself

Markcheese

Ignoring the security dispute...... Apparently they do a lot of luxury express coaches in Spain , could we scrap most of our trains.... And introduce new coach routes with coach and bus interchanges plus park and rides at ring road bypasses.
Or are we too small a Country for that sort of deregulated thing .....

Stinicker

In 2010 4 of us were in Los Angeles and decided to take a trip over to tas Vegas, we had just arrived in the US from Australia a few days before and some of us were almost skint. Anyways three of the party decided to take the Greyhound to Las Vegas very early in the morning. I myself decided I'd fly with SouthWest as it was quicker and I could have a bit of kip in the morning.

Several hours later we all met up again in Las Vegas and all I could do was laugh at the other three ejits who had taken the bus, their bus tickets cost something like $45 return and I had paid $90 return on SouthWest, but get this they weighed their cases and charged one of them $25 for being overweight? On a bus FFS!! Both bus stations in Vegas and LA were dumps according to them and the bus full of weirdos, one them said she was sitting next to an obese woman who looked like "big Momma" and never shut up talking to her for the whole journey.

The best bit was on our last day in Vegas we were flying out from LAX that evening back to Heathrow and home. Anyway once again my three ejits got up very early and set off for the dodgy bus station about half an hour later I got a paniced call to quickly book three airline tickets on my flight back to LA as their bus was going to be delayed by 2 hours and they'd miss our flight in LAX. Their 3 tickets cost them like $60 one way each and they had to pay taxi fares again back to their hotel (The Excalibur - a Dump) I stayed next door in the Monte Carlo which was refreshingly posh.

So they spent almost double the cost of flight between new flights, taxis and wasted bus fares. I originally had wanted to hire a mustang and drive the 4 of us over to Vegas for the weekend but they wouldn't agree to it as they "didnt trust my driving" in a LHD despite having traveled like 3,000kms in Australia the weeks before with me driving!!

At the end of it they said they should have listened to me and hired a car or at least flew! Coach travel in America is a hilarious and dodgy adventure and just too lower class for me!

Markcheese

Hi stiniker.... I think the pointof the thread originally was that there's economy class coach travel ( greyhound,how your poor oul mates were traveling) and business class coach travel..which is making a comeback ....( I would have been one of the eejits on greyhound on my way back from oz....and would have felt aggrieved at your smugness....read green but broke)

Victor

Yonge Street wrote: »

Buses in Ireland generally aren't as bad due to the shorter distances involved. Yes they still attract the junkies and social welfare travel pass crowd, but at least you're not forced to tolerate them for more than an hour or two.

Bigotry much?

jameverywhere

Thing about Greyhound is you WILL be delayed if you have a transfer, you WILL miss a bus and be stuck in a bus station for hours, and there WILL be a free-for-all for seating as all the people who missed their busses fight for too few seats on the bus that comes next.

Had a friend take a bus to come meet me and I was driving. He was about 24 hours late to the bus station. He couldn't afford plane tickets at that time, but now if we're ever going somewhere he saves up and buys early to get tickets.

Greyhound is a joke; once a friend of mine sat next to a guy who had a tattoo of HIS OWN FACE on his arm.

If your travel plans are super flexible--you just wanna GO somewhere--and you're short on funds, and you're not carrying anything super valuable, then sure go Greyhound. If you're on a tight schedule, I'd skip it.

Amtrak is a bit better but the prices are often more than air travel and the area of coverage is pathetic. America needs to spend more money on trains and less on highways, imho, especially as we start to realise how deep in the hole our car dependence is getting us. Car dependence is something Ireland learned from us, imho. It's sad.

dowlingm

Amtrak has the same problem as Irish Rail - if they tried to cancel one of the once-a-day transcontinental routes which probably lose a crapload of money the local Senator would have a fit and management would run scared. So the Northeast Corridor which is the nearest thing they have to a money maker can only be expanded in fits and starts.

jameverywhere

I don't know how they make their money. I took the train once from Pittsburgh to Boston and it was really nice, imho, but it took almost a whole day because I had to go from Pittsburgh to Philly and then from Philly to Boston (a pretty huge detour).

The train and train stations in that part of the country seemed full enough to me. And it was all on time by American standards. (that is, within, say, 20 minutes.)

price turned out to be pretty much the same as if I had driven the distance myself, paying for petrol, except with the bonus that I could sleep as much as I wanted.

bk

The problem with trains in the US, is that rail freight is major business in the US. Unlike Ireland, rail freight is the primary use of rail, lots of freight is carried by rail and makes the rail companies lots of money, much more then passengers.

Rail freight moves much slower then passenger rail, thus making passenger rail very slow.

Stinicker

bk wrote: »

The problem with trains in the US, is that rail freight is major business in the US. Unlike Ireland, rail freight is the primary use of rail, lots of freight is carried by rail and makes the rail companies lots of money, much more then passengers.

Rail freight moves much slower then passenger rail, thus making passenger rail very slow.

Yes and you have dozens of competing railroad operators and the tracks are of differing quality all over the place. Amtrak dosen't even own its own tracks and America has never had a unified Railway system except during the world wars when they were all quasi nationalised and commandeered into total wartime operations diverting all freight to war and passenger to troop movements moving millions of men to east coast for the crossing to England and men from the east to the West to fight in the pacific.

Railfreight survives so well in the US because it was never Nationalized and because this is where the money is over there, the massive Auto subsidy and era of cheap air travel killed off long distance rail passenger transport in the US, however if Americans had to pay European gas prices and GM were not allowed to kill off the public transportation of dozens of large US cities then I am sure the market would respond over there.

dowlingm

bk wrote: »

The problem with trains in the US, is that rail freight is major business in the US. Unlike Ireland, rail freight is the primary use of rail, lots of freight is carried by rail and makes the rail companies lots of money, much more then passengers.

Rail freight moves much slower then passenger rail, thus making passenger rail very slow.

Not only that but rail companies pay property tax (rates) to the municipalities they run through where lines exist. Under American/Canadian standards the rails would have been lifted on the WRC and other similar lines very shortly after service was abandoned - there's a window where other RRs or the municipality can make offers to purchase (at least in Canada) but after that byebye.

jameverywhere

Stinicker wrote: »

Railfreight survives so well in the US [...]

Wouldn't say it's surviving... just lingering. Trucking is much more common, popular, and cheap for moving freight. Tons of railway lines are shutting down or disused nowadays. There's a slow but sure abandonment of railways in favour of trucking. Just as steamboats were abandoned in favour of railways.

monument

Anybody know how Obama's high speed buses are going?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNixDlRoMvA

devnull

Greyhound is very much being improved in some areas, like other posters have said there are some areas where I would not touch them for the reasons that have been outlined in this thread, however they are modernizing with some nice new vehicles in some areas and also BoltBus, NeonBus and Greyhound Express are far better standard with Free Wifi, leather seats and plug sockets etc.

Generally though, public transport is very much seen as something for the poor in the USA, and only recently is that beginning to change.