Moral Dilemma Regarding Luas

Dublindude69

Say you saw some scum bag that you knew on the Luas, say you saw him getting busted for not having a ticket. Then you see said scum bag giving the guy a fake name and address, should I have gotten off the stop with the Luas staff member and given him the guys correct name and address?
Someone is going to be in for a nasty suprise
I'm wonder if I should have done that or minded my own buisness? I dont think he'll be able to know who did it.

bunnymunro

you should be ashamed with yourself...Down with that sort of thing...

arybvtcw0eolkf

I'm a big believer in people minding their own business.

TheZohanS

lol gud1

Napper Hawkins

It's none of your business whether or not you think your man is a scrote. He'll get himself caught eventually.

aaronjumper

Better off not getting involved. You knew him it's likely he knows you. On the LUAS and only one person knows who you are suddenly "The Authorities" know your real name.
Not even scum is that stupid.

Biggins

If the person is of such known FOR SURE low quality in character, I might be tempted to give an official a copy of their real address to see that justice be once again be done correctly, to balance the scales of justice towards those that have the decency to pay their way and not let the scum bags of this world think they can get away with everything scott free!

One cannot commend and/or understand Gerry Kennedy for his actions - then on the other hand in another incident, let other scum bags off!
Its a bit hypocritical!

ebixa82

Dublindude69 wrote: »

Say you saw some scum bag that you knew on the Luas, say you saw him getting busted for not having a ticket. Then you see said scum bag giving the guy a fake name and address, should I have gotten off the stop with the Luas staff member and given him the guys correct name and address?
Someone is going to be in for a nasty suprise
I'm wonder if I should have done that or minded my own buisness? I dont think he'll be able to know who did it.

If you know the name and address of the scumbag then you are obviously a scumbag yourself. You just don't realise it. How else would you know ffs?

aaronjumper

Biggins wrote: »

If the person is of such known FOR SURE low quality in character, I might be tempted to give an official a copy of their real address to see that justice be once again be done correctly, to balance the scales of justice towards that have the decency to pay their way and not let the scum bags of this world think they can get away with everything scott free!

I don't think someone getting nabbed for not paying for a LUAS ticket screams justice done.

AngryBollix

He'll probably get 12 months in prison for bunking the luas. If he had stabbed someone he'd have got 100 hours community service and a place on a drug treatment programme.

F*ck him. If he doesnt want to be ratted on he should pay his fare next time.

Robdude

There would be a lot less criminal activity if so many people weren't so welcoming of it...

No - you shouldn't rat him out! It's none of your business. It's not like his not paying puts an additional burden on those who do pay (like yourself)....and even if it did - why should you care? You should just complain loudly about rampant corruption and outrageous cost-of-living in Ireland; while not doing anything about it.

Just mind your business and hope that someone else, who isn't willing to turn a blind eye, catches him next time.

Biggins

aaronjumper wrote: »

I don't think someone getting nabbed for not paying for a LUAS ticket screams justice done.

...No, maybe, but it might help to show that such things are not without consequence and that there is penalties for taking advantage of others that do the decent thing and pay for their fare.

AngryBollix

When New York had their crime problems back in the day there was a particular focus on fare evasion on the subway.

The logic was that if someone was on the subway to commit crime (bag snatching, pickpocketing and the like) then it was almost inevitable that they would fare evade also. Clamping out fare evasion also helped stamp out associated criminal activity.

Maybe its wishful thinking but maybe t will help

aaronjumper

Biggins wrote: »

...No, maybe, but it might help to show that such things are not without consequence and that there is penalties for taking advantage of others that do the decent thing and pay for their fare.

Do you really think him getting nabbed on the LUAS will turn him into a pay his way type of guy? He's been screwing the system for years (probably) I doubt this will stop him.

ebixa82

Biggins wrote: »

...No, maybe, but it might help to show that such things are not without consequence and that there is penalties for taking advantage of others that do the decent thing and pay for their fare.

There are no penalties.

In the unlikely event of a fine being sent to the correct address the scumbag won't pay. In extreme cases this will lead to a conviction to add to the list.

homerjay2005

bunnymunro wrote: »

you should be ashamed with yourself...Down with that sort of thing...

Micah Flabby Gravy wrote: »

I'm a big believer in people minding their own business.

f*ck that, anything that involves a scumbag getting f*cked over, is a win win.

well done to the OP. hope the c*nt gets done for the false name also.

Biggins

aaronjumper wrote: »

Do you really think him getting nabbed on the LUAS will turn him into a pay his way type of guy? He's been screwing the system for years (probably) I doubt this will stop him.

ebixa82 wrote: »

There are no penalties.

In the unlikely event of a fine being sent to the correct address the scumbag won't pay. In extreme cases this will lead to a conviction to add to the list.

There is NO perfect solution or answer to this problem that will solve it in particular but just letting them away with it too might have further consequences?
(Question - not a statement of fact.)

I say the above because some examples (and possible reports/studies) has show at times that if more people/communities adopt a more zero tolerance to crime and low level offenders are dealed with more so, crimes as such drop in regards to ones of more serious nature eventually.
I think the zero tolerance position of New York at one stage showed this very clearly.

---

In extreme cases this will lead to a conviction to add to the list.

..And such a list for a judge later, will be more indicative as to the fuller, truer character of a person we might assume...

Ellis Dee

Dublindude69 wrote: »

Say you saw some scum bag that you knew on the Luas, say you saw him getting busted for not having a ticket. Then you see said scum bag giving the guy a fake name and address, should I have gotten off the stop with the Luas staff member and given him the guys correct name and address?
Someone is going to be in for a nasty suprise
I'm wonder if I should have done that or minded my own buisness? I dont think he'll be able to know who did it.

If the Luas inspectors are so stupid that they just accept the name and address a fare-dodger gives them and do not take the necessary steps to confirm that it is correct, then they deserve nothing else than to be shafted. In fact, if it is true what you say, I wonder why anyone would give them their correct name and address.

I travel on the Helsinki Metro and trams quite a lot and have seen the ticket inspectors (some uniformed, others in plain clothes) in action. A person found to be without a valid ticket must produce something like a passport or official (police-issued) ID card or a driving licence (with photo) or else will be taken off at the next stop and detained by either private security personnel (who have police powers) or the police themselves until his or her identity has been established.:)

Anyone caught without a valid ticket has to pay the price of the ticket plus an "inspection fee" of €60 and has about three weeks to do so, after which the matter will be entrusted to the Distraint Officer (Sheriff) and the amount recovered by attaching earnings or seizing and auctioning property (+ substantial costs).:D

Having that system and making sure almost everyone pays their fair share may explain why Helsinki has a public transport system that Irish commuters could hardly imagine in their wettest of dreams.:cool:

As for your moral dilemma, you would probably just be wasting your time anyway. If that's the way the Luas people run a sort of railroad ---:rolleyes:

aaronjumper

Biggins wrote: »

There is NO perfect solution or answer to this problem that will solve it in particular but just letting them away with it too might have further consequences?
(Question - not a statement of fact.)

I say the above because some examples (and possible reports/studies) has show at times that if more people/communities adopt a more zero tolerance to crime and low level offender are dealed with more so, crimes as such drop in regards to ones of more serious nature eventually.
I think the zero tolerance position of New York at one stage showed this very clearly.

You make a very good point. However until there are more serious punishments put in place I do not think it would go anywhere.

ebixa82

Biggins wrote: »

There is NO perfect solution or answer to this problem that will solve it in particular but just letting them away with it too might have further consequences?
(Question - not a statement of fact.)

I say the above because some examples (and possible reports/studies) has show at times that if more people/communities adopt a more zero tolerance to crime and low level offenders are dealed with more so, crimes as such drop in regards to ones of more serious nature eventually.
I think the zero tolerance position of New York at one stage showed this very clearly.

---

..And such a list for a judge later, will be more indicative as to the fuller, truer character of a person we might assume...

So if I see a scumbag giving a fake address and know said scumbag, by giving their real address to the inspector and a fine being sent to their address, this will eventually result in a reduction in more serious crimes such as drug dealing, gang warfare etc.?

Micky Dolenz

No one likes a grass.

copacetic

homerjay2005 wrote: »

f*ck that, anything that involves a scumbag getting f*cked over, is a win win.

well done to the OP. hope the c*nt gets done for the false name also.

+1, it's the other scum who do similar ****e who will have an issue with people actually doing something about it.

Biggins

ebixa82 wrote: »

So if I see a scumbag giving a fake address and know said scumbag, by giving their real address to the inspector and a fine being sent to their address, this will eventually result in a reduction in more serious crimes such as drug dealing, gang warfare etc.?

Its a good question - and I AM NOT an expert on the subject but apparently by real example, this seems to actually be the case eventually to some degree (and I mention the New York example on this).

Less crime is always better - brought about by whatever peaceful means that is used.
Its not perfect and might not work all the time but anything that makes a difference, has to be good.

ebixa82

Biggins wrote: »

Its a good question - and I AM NOT an expert on the subject but apparently by real example, this seems to actually be the case eventually to some degree (and I mention the New York example on this).

Less crime is always better - brought about by whatever peaceful means that is used.
Its not perfect and might not work all the time but anything that makes a difference, has to be good.

Sending a fine to the legit address of a scumbag will have zero impact on him banging out gear outside the Spar on Talbot St. the following day.

In reality at least.

Biggins

ebixa82 wrote: »

Sending a fine to the legit address of a scumbag will have zero impact on him banging out gear outside the Spar on Talbot St. the following day.

In reality at least.

All very true.
However for a judge that might eventually be asked for a search warrant for his place, the more stuff there is standing against him, no matter what it is, it just being example of him being or not a law abiding person - helps such judges decide if such a warrant is justified in being given to the Gardi. It aids to see as to their over all character.

The above is just a simple, off hand example.

---

Also in reality, the likelihood of anyone giving in the chaps real name and address is very remote so more often than not, they get away with it.

ebixa82

Biggins wrote: »

All very true.
However for a judge that might eventually be asked for a search warrant for his place, the more stuff there is standing against him, no matter what it is, it just being example of him being or not a law abiding person - helps such judges decide if such a warrant is justified in being given to the Gardi. It aids to see as to their over all character.

The above is just a simple, off hand example.

OK, in an extreme case, this might lead to an addition to a scumbag's conviction list.

In most other circumstances what good will reporting the person do? Remeber now that there is no possible way of proving that the person reporting is giving the true address.

Biggins

ebixa82 wrote: »

OK, in an extreme case, this might lead to an addition to a scumbag's conviction list.

In most other circumstances what good will reporting the person do? Remeber now that there is no possible way of proving that the person reporting is giving the true address.

Again, being totally honest in my reply to you, it probably won't make much of a difference.
The way our laws are written - then sadly poorly applied by daft judges at times, we'd be lucky if they even get a slap on the hand!

...But I'd like to still think at times, some of us still have to try and make a difference.
I'm an eternal optimist!

ebixa82

Biggins wrote: »

Again, being totally honest in my reply to you, it probably won't make much of a difference.
The way our laws are written - then sadly poorly applied by daft judges at times, we'd be lucky if they even get a slap on the hand!

They won't even get a slap on the hand. No point reporting. It may sound apathetic but that's the way it is.

Biggins

ebixa82 wrote: »

...It may sound apathetic but that's the way it is.

O' I know!

Son Of A Vidic

OP why don't you just make a massive takeaway order and have it delivered to the scumbags address.

jester77

Leave it be. The onus is on the Luas inspectors to make sure his address is correct. I don't know how they do it in Dublin, but over here if you can't prove your address then the police are called and they take over.

KyussBishop

If you see him do it more than once, i.e. semi-regular, then sure, let the inspector know his address; if this is just the once, it would be a bit mean, as you don't know the circumstances.
I'm sure a lot of people have gone onto the Dart without paying before, because they were about to miss it; don't know if applies to Luas.

ebixa82

KyussBishop wrote: »

If you see him do it more than once, i.e. semi-regular, then sure, let the inspector know his address; if this is just the once, it would be a bit mean, as you don't know the circumstances.
I'm sure a lot of people have gone onto the Dart without paying before, because they were about to miss it; don't know if applies to Luas.

How can you prove you are giving the real address?

What is stopping me going up to an inspector and giving a fake address?

KyussBishop

^^ Fair point; I guess it would be in the inspectors hands to verify the address.

Biggins

KyussBishop wrote: »

If you see him do it more than once, i.e. semi-regular, then sure, let the inspector know his address; if this is just the once, it would be a bit mean, as you don't know the circumstances.
I'm sure a lot of people have gone onto the Dart without paying before, because they were about to miss it; don't know if applies to Luas.

A lot of sense in that post over all.

twinQuins

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

No one likes Criminals don't like a grass.

FYP. I'll never understand the attitude of "grassing" or "ratting".

ebixa82

Biggins wrote: »

A lot of sense in that post over all.

How can you prove to the inspector you are giving the correct address?

If you can't then they cannot possibly take your word for it.

Biggins

ebixa82 wrote: »

How can you prove to the inspector you are giving the correct address?

If you can't then they cannot possibly take your word for it.

O' no argument.

While the scumbag is up giving an address, he might actually be giving the inspector yours, if he saw you too and knows where you live!
Then you go and give his! :pac:

In reality though, IF (a big 'if') something like that ever came to court (yes, extremely unlikely), a conductor might state "Yes, thats the face and out of the two addresses I got, at least one of them was correct and matched the bloke on the day".
(The above is very unlikely to happen and we both know it I'm assuming.)

Chinasea

Even if he gave the correct address absolutely nothing will happen to him. He will most like have another 93 unpaid fines / convictions etc., too.

I am surprised he didn't have his disability pass (courtesy of the ejet taxpayer) on him.