plumbers still looking for Celtic tiger prices

kerryted

hi there just got a quote for some plumbing work to install a stove and hook it up to the heating. I am doing all the chasing and patching up, just to install a few pipes 950 euro for the labor , 2 days work for a plumber and his mate, rang a polish plumber he will do it for 400 euro . its no wonder prices of property went through the roof in Ireland with tradesmen looking for those sort of prices

anuprising

while I can't comment on prices as I don't know what's involved I will give you a piece of advice .
lads on here that specialise in stoves will tell you , if it's installed incorrectly ,it's a time bomb

if the polish plumber is genuine he will have no problem showing you a copy of his insurance policy , all the details you need should be on the first page

if everything above board go ahead with the install
most people I have come across will hound an irish plumber if something wrong , but they afraid or cant to go after a non national plumber as most find out that in fact they are not plumbers at all

fm

kerryted wrote: »

hi there just got a quote for some plumbing work to install a stove and hook it up to the heating. I am doing all the chasing and patching up, just to install a few pipes 950 euro for the labor , 2 days work for a plumber and his mate, rang a polish plumber he will do it for 400 euro . its no wonder prices of property went through the roof in Ireland with tradesmen looking for those sort of prices

plumbers still looking for Celtic tiger prices


Shouldn't that read "plumber",so you rang one plumber and he was too dear.RIng a few to compare,and now the tradesmen in ireland are to blame for the property prices,rubbish.

kerryted

fm wrote: »

plumbers still looking for Celtic tiger prices


Shouldn't that read "plumber",so you rang one plumber and he was too dear.RIng a few to compare,and now the tradesmen in ireland are to blame for the property prices,rubbish.

I rang 4 plumbers the first 2 didn't even come out to look at it the 3rd gave me the price of 950 and the 4 was the polish lad who new what he was talking about as he was doing it the same way as the 3rd lad and said he would do it for 400 . I am all for supporting local jobs but if we are being rode like this what choice do we have.

GASMANN

kerryted wrote: »

hi there just got a quote for some plumbing work to install a stove and hook it up to the heating. I am doing all the chasing and patching up, just to install a few pipes 950 euro for the labor , 2 days work for a plumber and his mate, rang a polish plumber he will do it for 400 euro . its no wonder prices of property went through the roof in Ireland with tradesmen looking for those sort of prices

i dont know what bearing that lads nationality has on anything kerryted.

Mikko Mallikas

I am all for supporting local jobs but if we are being rode like this what choice do we have.

Local Jobs? Where do you think the Polish guy lives ?

Outkast_IRE

As long as he has insurance and is doing it to the proper standard your right to go with the cheaper quote , but be aware if stoves are done wrong they are potentially deadly so just insure he is legit with insurance and knowledge.

oikster

OP Do you have any problem with the materials prices as the installer can only be as good as the materials supplied.

CarrickMcJoe

Have to agree with the Insurance, its a must have. Sister in law got a "plumber" to install her stove, ended out in her roof going on fire!

Guy had no insurance so she had to go through her house insurance.
Proved very expensive in the end.

DoneDL

kerryted, fitting a stove to an existing heating system is a bit more involved than just installing a couple of pipes. Just go with what you think is best, trades will overprice a job if they don`t like the feel of it.

kerryted

Mikko Mallikas wrote: »

Local Jobs? Where do you think the Polish guy lives ?

there is no polish plumber that i know of living beside me but there is a few local plumbers that i know of not too far away. got the polish lad number off a friend of mine who recommended him. he don't mind being called a polish plumber that's what his called his proud of where his from

kerryted

DoneDL wrote: »

kerryted, fitting a stove to an existing heating system is a bit more involved than just installing a couple of pipes. Just go with what you think is best, trades will overprice a job if they don`t like the feel of it.

that why i think the first 2 dint even come out to look at it too hard for them or just maybe could not do it, 3rd lad O its a big job its tricky its this and that, 4 lad ya no problem we will do this and that no problem. its not that complicated if you know what your doing .

Stove Fan

I would ask to see some other boiler stove installations that he has done.

If you can speak to a customer who is independant thats great.

As said a boiler stove can be deadly if not done right.

Did that price only cover labour and not to supplying the parts and actually installing the stove/flue and necessary ventilation etc?

Stove Fan:)

maradonas

hi

does anybody know is there a boiler stove fitting course/class where you can learn the regs. etc?

kerryted

GASMANN wrote: »

i dont know what bearing that lads nationality has on anything kerryted.

Well Gasmann He is a polish plumber like if i was in poland i would be called an Irish blocklayer its as simple as that, you wouldn't take any offense to being called Irish and they dont mind being called polish.

Micky Dolenz

Dual coil cylinder € 170. Pipe stat. €11. Pump €70. Pump valves €10,1" copper pipe €32 per length. 1" fittings €4+ per fitting. 3/4" pipe €24 per length.VAT etc

If a dual coil cylinder isn't fitted, it will be done incorrectly.

Your home is your biggest asset, ensure anyone working on it has approiate insurance cover. It is also worth nothing. If cash is paid and there is a dispute afterward, a court won't entertain a contract that defrauded the revenue.

oikster

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Dual coil cylinder € 170. Pipe stat. €11. Pump €70. Pump valves €10,1" copper pipe €32 per length. 1" fittings €4+ per fitting. 3/4" pipe €24 per length.VAT etc

If a dual coil cylinder isn't fitted, it will be done incorrectly.

Your home is your biggest asset, ensure anyone working on it has approiate insurance cover. It is also worth nothing. If cash is paid and there is a dispute afterward, a court won't entertain a contract that defrauded the revenue.

Sounds a very keen price for the cylinder,but I was wondering more about the stove as I have seen cheap versions,properly installed, that do not work.

Micky Dolenz

oikster wrote: »

Sounds a very keen price for the cylinder,but I was wondering more about the stove as I have seen cheap versions,properly installed, that do not work.

A lot of people are misled when buying stoves. If a sales person says it can heat up to 7 rads. This means 7 small single panel rads. If you have double panel rads,count it as two or more.

A stove at its max output will have to be well fired up. Lab tests do not equal practical use.

fm

kerryted wrote: »

I rang 4 plumbers the first 2 didn't even come out to look at it the 3rd gave me the price of 950 and the 4 was the polish lad who new what he was talking about as he was doing it the same way as the 3rd lad and said he would do it for 400 . I am all for supporting local jobs but if we are being rode like this what choice do we have.

Fair enough,you can't argue with the price if you get the same job done.Who knows,you might be taking a risk or you mightn't.You have decided the others are too dear but maybe he is too cheap.

But, is he vat registered,insured,or maybe signing on?Does he guarantee his work?

kerryted

It seems to me that there is a lot of plumbers on this forum so if i may i might get some info for free do you think it takes 2 qualified plumbers 2 days to do this job at a cost of 950 or 1 qualified plumber for 3 days at a cost of 400 euro, would you really need 2 plumbers on a job this small

Micky Dolenz

You should never be afraid to as for insurance details and references. All reputable tradespeople will have no problem supplying both.

oikster

Exactly,the given outputs are,as you say, under ideal conditions and may never be achieved in a normal installation. Just an instance I recently came across along similar lines. I was asked by another plumber to check over an installation he had done in a new build as the customer was not happy with the results and was giving him some serious grief over it. So I went and had a look as I know this plumber well. I also knew the client but that is another days story. The system was set up and piped perfectly but the temperatures being reached were ,to say the least, brutal.The stove had been going all day from 11am to when we arrived 7pm and the heat was almost non existant.I spent a while checking pump and stat and finally decided to inspect the stove itself and found that the flow pipe as it left the stove was about 42 degrees. This wasn't even hot enough to bring the pump on after all that time.The flame in the stove itself wasn't what you wold call lively but the fuel was glowing red as a fire on for that length of time would normally do,but still very little heat. I then asked the owner for the manual for the stove and he told me that he did not get one. He also couldn't say where he bought the stove. We eventually got some life into the fire by fiddling with dampers and such which improved the temperature quite a bit but we had to leave him knowing that he had bought a "dud". By the way no apology was offered to the original plumber and no offer of payment was made to me for my time. We will not be back there.

Billy Bunting

If your Polish "plumber" is supplying all the material required then he's doing the job for nothing, as previously said check his previous customers and make sure he's insured (ring the company)before you trust him with the job, it could end up costing you dear.

GASMANN

kerryted wrote: »

Well Gasmann He is a polish plumber like if i was in poland i would be called an Irish blocklayer its as simple as that, you wouldn't take any offense to being called Irish and they dont mind being called polish.

ah its just you never said what the nationality of the 1st 3 plumbers in your o.p were so i didnt see the the relevance of mentioning the 4th plumbers, anyway thats a way off topic. fitting a stove is a serious job, you've only got 2 quotes so why not get 2 more and compare, it will give you a better idea. if you get 2 more and there closer to €400 by all means go for it but if there closer to €950 id be very carefull going with the cheapest quote, its not all about price with these things as said already on the thread

kerryted

GASMANN wrote: »

ah its just you never said what the nationality of the 1st 3 plumbers in your o.p were so i didnt see the the relevance of mentioning the 4th plumbers, anyway thats a way off topic. fitting a stove is a serious job, you've only got 2 quotes so why not get 2 more and compare, it will give you a better idea. if you get 2 more and there closer to €400 by all means go for it but if there closer to €950 id be very carefull going with the cheapest quote, its not all about price with these things as said already on the thread

well i had a figure in my head of 600 3 days work for a plumber and i would do all the donkey work, 200 euros is a nice days pay if you can get it. i know you have to pay tax out of that,i knew there was a culture in the plumbing business of picking a number out of there head and adding a zero onto it and just trying that if they got the job well and good. and that still seems to be the way plumbers are pricing work today

Micky Dolenz

kerryted wrote: »

well i had a figure in my head of 600 3 days work for a plumber and i would do all the donkey work, 200 euros is a nice days pay if you can get it. i know you have to pay tax out of that,i knew there was a culture in the plumbing business of picking a number out of there head and adding a zero onto it and just trying that if they got the job well and good. and that still seems to be the way plumbers are pricing work today

You are basing this all on one quote?

You do realise you came into a forum where these professionals post and give help to people looking for it, for free?

After one quote you feel you have done enough research to make a statement regarding a whole profession of people?

Billy Bunting

A lot of guys who have been in the game for a long time have an extra sense, its the ability to spot a potential pain in the arse customer, then they may start picking a number out of there head and adding a zero onto it, do you think thats what happened to you ?

CrackisWhack

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

You are basing this all on one quote?

You do realise you came into a forum where these professionals post and give help to people looking for it, for free?

After one quote you feel you have done enough research to make a statement regarding a whole profession of people?

In fairness, a few years ago, trades persons were way overcharging people for jobs, they were getting paid too much imo. Not sure whats its like anymore, since im no longer in the country, but I would suspect some still are valuing jobs at the ridiculous prices of a few years ago!

sullzz

maradonas wrote: »

hi

does anybody know is there a boiler stove fitting course/class where you can learn the regs. etc?

Hey kerryted, heres your polish plumber posting too.!!!!

Micky Dolenz

CrackisWhack wrote: »

In fairness, a few years ago, trades persons were way overcharging people for jobs, they were getting paid too much imo. Not sure whats its like anymore, since im no longer in the country, but I would suspect some still are valuing jobs at the ridiculous prices of a few years ago!

Do you know this for fact? or is it something you just heard other people talk about?

Billy Bunting

CrackisWhack wrote: »

In fairness, a few years ago, trades persons were way overcharging people for jobs, they were getting paid too much imo. Not sure whats its like anymore, since im no longer in the country, but I would suspect some still are valuing jobs at the ridiculous prices of a few years ago!

I dont see many trades persons living it up after the Tiger ran off, quite a large % of them on the dole, business hasn't got any easier or cheaper to run, maybe you hadnt heard but we are in a recesion and WE the workers are paying for it.

DoneDL

kerryted wrote: »

well i had a figure in my head of 600 3 days work for a plumber and i would do all the donkey work, 1. 200 euros is a nice days pay if you can get it. i know you have to pay tax out of that, 2.i knew there was a culture in the plumbing business of picking a number out of there head and adding a zero onto it and 3. just trying that if they got the job well and good. and that still seems to be the way plumbers are pricing work today

kerryted ,
1. 200 euros a day does account for tax but then add in Insurance, running a van, health insurance, wear and tear on tools, training costs and so many other every day expense.
2. I don`t think that any decent trade person would do this but it is something every trade encounters.
3. If you want a job done well then you would be well advised to research the person you are hiring as pointed out in other posts and skilled trades are entitled to make a profit.


+ If it`s fitting only who has supplied and advised you on the materials needed.

GASMANN

kerryted wrote: »

well i had a figure in my head of 600 3 days work for a plumber and i would do all the donkey work, 200 euros is a nice days pay if you can get it. i know you have to pay tax out of that,i knew there was a culture in the plumbing business of picking a number out of there head and adding a zero onto it and just trying that if they got the job well and good. and that still seems to be the way plumbers are pricing work today

you never said whether the job was a supply and fit or labour only and i dont know whats involved so im not going to get into that end of it, but what im trying to say is you have 2 quotes and your expectation lies somewhere in the middle, get more quotes, i do a lot of work on jobs that iv lost initially on price and have been asked to either complete or rectify after cheaper (usually much cheaper) rgi's have have made a mess and disappeared and this is a very expensive way for the punter i.e you, to get things done

kerryted

Billy Bunting wrote: »

A lot of guys who have been in the game for a long time have an extra sense, its the ability to spot a potential pain in the arse customer, then they may start picking a number out of there head and adding a zero onto it, do you think thats what happened to you ?

OK Billy lets see how this works, you go to a house lets call him joe and he looks like a pain in the arse and you don't want the job so you you put in a massive price, OK so poor ould joe is not that well up and gives you the job anyway because he thinks your the only plumber in town and won the plumber of the year competition so what do you do ,do you take the job and tell joe to have his trousers down or do you tell poor ould joe that his a pain in the arse

DoneDL

kerryted wrote: »

OK Billy lets see how this works, you go to a house lets call him joe and he looks like a pain in the arse and you don't want the job so you you put in a massive price, OK so poor ould joe is not that well up and gives you the job anyway because he thinks your the only plumber in town and won the plumber of the year competition so what do you do ,do you take the job and tell joe to have his trousers down or do you tell poor ould joe that his a pain in the arse

No I think that you are missing his point entirely but you would have to be in a position where you have given a fair price, done the job well and then didn`t get paid. You only ever want to do that once.

WhatNowForUs?

oikster wrote: »

Exactly,the given outputs are,as you say, under ideal conditions and may never be achieved in a normal installation. Just an instance I recently came across along similar lines. I was asked by another plumber to check over an installation he had done in a new build as the customer was not happy with the results and was giving him some serious grief over it. So I went and had a look as I know this plumber well. I also knew the client but that is another days story. The system was set up and piped perfectly but the temperatures being reached were ,to say the least, brutal.The stove had been going all day from 11am to when we arrived 7pm and the heat was almost non existant.I spent a while checking pump and stat and finally decided to inspect the stove itself and found that the flow pipe as it left the stove was about 42 degrees. This wasn't even hot enough to bring the pump on after all that time.The flame in the stove itself wasn't what you wold call lively but the fuel was glowing red as a fire on for that length of time would normally do,but still very little heat. I then asked the owner for the manual for the stove and he told me that he did not get one. He also couldn't say where he bought the stove. We eventually got some life into the fire by fiddling with dampers and such which improved the temperature quite a bit but we had to leave him knowing that he had bought a "dud". By the way no apology was offered to the original plumber and no offer of payment was made to me for my time. We will not be back there.

Ah yes. But he he paid for a fix!!!!! not a can't do.

kerryted

DoneDL wrote: »

No I think that you are missing his point entirely but you would have to be in a position where you have given a fair price, done the job well and then didn`t get paid. You only ever want to do that once.

sorry the point i am seeing here is that certain trades persons think that its OK to over charge some one on the basis that he is a pain in the arse

DoneDL

DoneDL wrote: »

kerryted, fitting a stove to an existing heating system is a bit more involved than just installing a couple of pipes. Just go with what you think is best, trades will overprice a job if they don`t like the feel of it.

No I stated that as well.

gdavis

absolute horsesh1te,are these lads that pick a figure and throw a zero on the end of it still in business?? highly unlikely.and if u as a customer dont do ur bit of research into both the price and the plumber then worse fool u,i for one would certainly not let any joe soap into my house to do work

kerryted

kerryted wrote: »

sorry the point i am seeing here is that certain trades persons think that its OK to over charge some one on the basis that he is a pain in the arse

I thought your point was plumbers were stuck in a time warp ripping the arse out of jobs, silly point you making really as there were fair minded plumbers back then as their is now.

Billy Bunting

kerryted wrote: »

OK Billy lets see how this works, you go to a house lets call him joe and he looks like a pain in the arse and you don't want the job so you you put in a massive price, OK so poor ould joe is not that well up and gives you the job anyway because he thinks your the only plumber in town and won the plumber of the year competition so what do you do ,do you take the job and tell joe to have his trousers down or do you tell poor ould joe that his a pain in the arse

It seems to me IMHO that you haven’t really come here for advice rather to have a pop at plumbers because you don’t like a price you’ve been given by one of them, you’ve had your advice but yet you still wish to antagonise, please ask another question rather than the constant picking.

kerryted

Billy Bunting wrote: »

It seems to me IMHO that you haven’t really come here for advice rather to have a pop at plumbers because you don’t like a price you’ve been given by one of them, you’ve had your advice but yet you still wish to antagonise, please ask another question rather than the constant picking.

OK Billy sorry for picking on you looks like i have upset some plumbers today and i am deeply sorry i wont be bothering ye again

Joey the lips

It strikes me that the easiest thing to do would be to start the conversation as

I got a quote for X today but an alternate quote of Y came in at so much cheaper. What points should i condider when taking into account the quotes.

Billy Bunting

kerryted wrote: »

OK Billy sorry for picking on you looks like i have upset some plumbers today and i am deeply sorry i wont be bothering ye again

Don't be shy coming back for advice after your've had the stove fitted

Guy:Incognito

Kerryted, can you at least clear up exactly whats included in the quotes? Is it supply and fit or are you supplying the materials.

Is the cylinder being changed or have you already got a dual coil one?

At the moment all there is is 2 figures and a rough idea of what they are for.

motherofthree

got in the stove , .plumber 700 euros, materials were 700 hundred euros copper pipe ,brass fittings and the twin flue .got a shock when i paid for all of that

kerryted

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Kerryted, can you at least clear up exactly whats included in the quotes? Is it supply and fit or are you supplying the materials.

Is the cylinder being changed or have you already got a dual coil one?

At the moment all there is is 2 figures and a rough idea of what they are for.

ya OK its a bungalow 4 bed A stove being fitted in kitchen hot press 6 meters away new cylinder in hot press and the small tank in the attic great access to attic I got a stove 1150 sorted now got the quote for 1850 euro to supply cylinder pipes and the few other bits and the labor and he asked me to do the chasing and reinstating , grand i asked what was the labor and he said 950. before i started the job i was given the impression from were i brought the stove that plumbers would be delighted for the bit of work and like all trades-persons were finding it difficult, but i was surprised that plumbers are still doing well

oikster

WhatNowForUs? wrote: »

Ah yes. But he he paid for a fix!!!!! not a can't do.

HE supplied a sub standard piece of crap and expected to have a silk purse out of it. HE paid for nothing as I said I knew both the plumber and the client.HE will never get a reputable plumber to work for him again in this area. Is that clear enough for you.

Plombier

The average industrial wage in Ireland in 2010 was €36000. But like all employees that includes holidays, bank holidays, and god forbid a few sick days, so all in all if your self employed that accounts for about 48 weeks to earn this money giving about €750 per week, but again if you are self employed you need to spend a lot of time with the likes of kerryted looking at his job and then more time pricing the same, so we have about 4 days to earn the €780 that means you have to get €188 per day plus overheads like insurance, van lease, diesel, phones, etc. etc. allow €30 for this now its €218, but here is the crucial part if you are self employed and willing to take the risk of kerryted not paying, you need to add profit (there I said the bad word) maybe 12.5% profit will bring it to €245 per day minimum.

Of course we then have to pay tax the same as everyone else.

I cant see how kerryted can get a plumber to work for three days at €130 per day I think I can hazard a guess at how he does it.

But the worse part is the some people are turning a blind eye as long as it suits them, the last thing we need at this time is a black market economy.

kerryted

Plombier wrote: »

The average industrial wage in Ireland in 2010 was €36000. But like all employees that includes holidays, bank holidays, and god forbid a few sick days, so all in all if your self employed that accounts for about 48 weeks to earn this money giving about €750 per week, but again if you are self employed you need to spend a lot of time with the likes of kerryted looking at his job and then more time pricing the same, so we have about 4 days to earn the €780 that means you have to get €188 per day plus overheads like insurance, van lease, diesel, phones, etc. etc. allow €30 for this now its €218, but here is the crucial part if you are self employed and willing to take the risk of kerryted not paying, you need to add profit (there I said the bad word) maybe 12.5% profit will bring it to €245 per day minimum.

Of course we then have to pay tax the same as everyone else.

I cant see how kerryted can get a plumber to work for three days at €130 per day I think I can hazard a guess at how he does it.

But the worse part is the some people are turning a blind eye as long as it suits them, the last thing we need at this time is a black market economy.

if you had no work and a few kids to feed would you work for 130 euro a day

DoneDL

kerryted wrote: »

if you had no work and a few kids to feed would you work for 130 euro a day

Yes but I wont be making bills. You seem to be assuming that there will be an automatic profit for the plumber no matter what you pay.