Belfast priest says united Ireland is now irrelevant

KeithAFC

A prominent Catholic parish priest in Belfast has claimed nationalism is irrelevant, slammed the Catholic Church in the Republic and hailed the Queen of England as a defender of his faith.

Fr Eugene O’Neill has provoked a storm of protest with his comments, made in an interview with the Newsletter newspaper in the city.

Fr O’Neill, the 45-year-old in charge of the parish of St Mary’s On The Hill, claimed that no catholic priests under the age of 45 are interested in removing the north-south border,

He has also told the paper that many Catholics are ‘re-thinking’ their nationalism and said that many are questioning whether. as Catholics, they necessarily had to be nationalist and look to Dublin when the ‘United Kingdom was more respectful of Christian churches’.

He made his comments to the paper in the wake of a broadcast on BBC Radio Ulster.

“As an Irish passport-holder I see the Queen and senior British government figures as defenders of faith in the UK,” claimed Fr O’Neill.

“There are similarities between how the Irish government is making life difficult for churches and how repressive communist regimes have persecuted Christians. The Republic is now a cold house for Catholicism.”

Singling out the ‘atheistic’ Tanaiste (deputy PM) Eamon Gilmore for particular rebuke, Fr O’Neill said that the UK Government had demonstrated a respect and appreciation for the role of Christian churches which ‘Catholics could support’.

“I’m 45 - for my generation of priests and everyone below us, the national question is irrelevant; literally irrelevant,” he said.

“No-one is interested in discussing that - people are interested in discussing Europe, what’s going to happen to Greece, whether the Euro will last... no-one is interested in the national question.

“There’s a desire to say that we have to unpick this fusion between one sort of politics and faith because history has shown us that that has always been a mistake.”

Asked to explain his comments, Fr O’Neill said: “It’s been engendered by the present events with the coalition in the south, starting last year particularly with the attack by the Taoiseach (PM) in the Dail and the particularly focused nature of the attack on the handling of the whole abuse issue.

“Whilst there is certainly a huge amount that the church at a local level did wrong and it behaved egregiously - there is no doubt about that - it is certainly also the case that the Irish state horrendously failed to acknowledge its part in that.

“That is not in any way to minimise the role of misbehaviour and crime in the church but everyone has to put their hands up if they’re guilty and I felt therefore that it was a very dishonest statement and pretty cheap politics.”

The priest, partly brought up in Dublin, expressed his shock at the Irish government’s recent decision to close its embassy at the Vatican.

“There’s a continual critique in the South and a lack of recognition of any positive role for faiths, any positive role for the churches, not recognising the vast effort that they make in social services and the good that they do,” he claimed.

“Something strange is going on while, at the same time, in the United Kingdom the tide is going the other way.

“When you read that, when you read what David Cameron said, when you see how the Pope was welcomed to Britain - it was amazing - when you see that and how the British diplomatic service engage on the ground with churches, it’s telling a different story.

“So I was asking myself more fundamental questions like: Why in a state whose head of state is in fact the leader of a church, the Church of England, it seems to be a more open space for faith, debate and cooperation.

“Whereas in a republic it seems to be a very cold house for Catholicism and in fact Christianity, where there is a really powerful hostility, exclusion, aggression.

“I also found it interesting in the last few days to see the touching of the hem of the Chinese vice-premier by Michael D Higgins who I remember as a schoolboy was out protesting against Ronald Reagan.

“We know China’s human rights record - still the biggest executor in the world, oppression of massive numbers of Christians, Falun Gong or anyone opposed to them - don’t we have values beyond the economy?”

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Belfast-priest-says-united-Ireland-is-now-irrelevant-praises-queen---139961283.html?showAll=y

Some rather incredible comments which puts the Irish Republic in a bad or good light depending on your point of view. I have to say, the visit of the pope to the UK did seem to be more welcome than if one at this moment happened in the Republic because of the outrage to the child abuse scandals in recent years.

Is this guy right about the Republic being a cold house for Catholicism? It seems rather incredible to think that a Priest would come out with such comments.

His view on the national question is also interesting. I wonder how many people from his faith think like this.

drunkmonkey

KeithAFC wrote: »

His view on the national question is also interesting

Your giving him too much credit. Sounds like a loon, he may have an Irish passport but doesn't sound so much like an Irish man.

southsiderosie

The British can have an easy relationship with the Vatican because they broke the Vatican's death grip on their domestic politics centuries ago, whereas Ireland is still sorting through this relationship. So I think this is, frankly, a ridiculous comparison, and the 'national question' issue is a red herring.

Manach

Well the Queen has recently made a defence of the Christian faith. This is a sentiment that is rare in current politicians that "Don't do God". Her highlighting of issues that exist outside the current election cycle is to be welcomed as it reminds people of the contributions of Christianity to the foundations of society.

AlekSmart

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Your giving him too much credit. Sounds like a loon, he may have an Irish passport but doesn't sound so much like an Irish man.

I dunno about that....as a lopsided lapsed Catholic myself,I see a great deal of honesty in his opinions on Irish Government guilt regarding the Child Abuse scandals.

“Whilst there is certainly a huge amount that the church at a local level did wrong and it behaved egregiously - there is no doubt about that - it is certainly also the case that the Irish state horrendously failed to acknowledge its part in that.

“That is not in any way to minimise the role of misbehaviour and crime in the church but everyone has to put their hands up if they’re guilty and I felt therefore that it was a very dishonest statement and pretty cheap politics.”

I don't see any loonacy about this statement,as the role of the Irish State and the level of collusion and deference it displayed to the Church throughout the abusive years certainly merits parity of esteem with the Churches role itself.

Far too many Irish Government Ministers and Senior Civil Servants managed to evade the spotlight even up to the present day.

Eugene O Neill is asking the right questions IMO,and indeed pointing out the somewhat obvious contradictions in much of what stands for "Policy" in Irish terms.

Forthright,arguable,debatable...all of those but i've heard far worse from political loons in Leinster House now drawing down VERY significant pensions.

Yonge Street

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Your giving him too much credit. Sounds like a loon, he may have an Irish passport but doesn't sound so much like an Irish man.

This idea that you must be Catholic to be a true Irishman is outdated, ridiculous and more irrelevant today than ever. Likewise the erroneous notion that Catholic = Nationalist and Protestant = Unionist. They were merely handy labels used interchangably to help simpletons understand the Troubles in the past. Today many Catholics are in favour of Northern Ireland remaining in the UK. A United Ireland will never happen and most people have accepted this and moved on with their life, save a few dinosaurs and chest-thumping Neanderthals.

Border-Rat

The Catholic-Unionist howler is a myth. I know this because I live in such an area and have friends and family in it. 4 out of the 6 Counties suffer perpetual economic stagnation because of partition. Even if Catholics/Nationalists in those areas were ideological Unionists, and if you believe that, take a trip to Fermanagh in the summer, they most certainly are not economic Unionists. This is worsened by border-shopping in huge corporate outlets killing prominent Nationalist towns like Newry and Strabane even further.

Its merely a fantasy among southen little-englanders.

secondopinion

Fascinating stuff to be sure. There are those who believe that The RC Church as an institution is a political entity. If this is true then it might explain some of these comments. If The RC Church is taking a hammering in The Republic, then might it look for support elsewhere on the island? And who better to target than political Unionism desperate for a bit of RC support or at least a bit of neutrality in their hopes of maintaining Ulster's place in The UK.

The irony is that true Protestants would reject any common cause with Rome and perhaps risk The Union, whilst political Unionism might get into bed with Rome in order to save The Union.

The RC Church has a clear ambition to break The Protestant constitutional status quo in The UK and these types of messages are probably part of the softening up process.

Yonge Street

Ok Border Rat, we'll just ignore the statistics and polling data and instead believe your little anecdote. Wake up - Republicans are a dying breed in the North. Maybe that's why Gerry is running South across the border.

Border-Rat

Yonge Street wrote: »

Ok Border Rat, we'll just ignore the statistics and polling data and instead believe your little anecdote. Wake up - Republicans are a dying breed in the North. Maybe that's why Gerry is running South across the border.

You just used a Unionist newspaper as your source and claimed that Republicanism is dying in the North, despite the largest party in the North now being... well, Republican.

Look, everyone. Behold the great Republican-to-Unionist exodus;



My, people up here really are starting to show Queen and Country their love. In reality, they could only show these statistics because prior to this, your heroes in the British armed forces murdered anyone suspected of voting Sinn Fein.

secondopinion

Border-Rat wrote: »

You just used a Unionist newspaper as your source and claimed that Republicanism is dying in the North, despite the largest party in the North now being... well, Republican.

Look, everyone. Behold the great Republican-to-Unionist exodus;



My, people up here really are starting to show Queen and Country their love. In reality, they could only show these statistics because prior to this, your heroes in the British armed forces murdered anyone suspected of voting Sinn Fein.

When did this happen mate?

Border-Rat

Oh, and obviously, thats out of date. Sinn Fein now control South Belfast and by all statistical accounts will control North Belfast next election. Making Belfast and Derry Republican-Sinn Fein cities.

secondopinion

Border-Rat wrote: »

Oh, and obviously, thats out of date. Sinn Fein now control South Belfast and by all statistical accounts will control North Belfast next election. Making Belfast and Derry Republican-Sinn Fein cities.

How did that happen mate, when "the British armed forces murdered anyone suspected of voting Sinn Fein"?

southsiderosie

Border-Rat, do you have a key and dates for that graphic?

southsiderosie

Yonge Street wrote: »

Ok Border Rat, we'll just ignore the statistics and polling data and instead believe your little anecdote. Wake up - Republicans are a dying breed in the North. Maybe that's why Gerry is running South across the border.

I don't think this says much about Republicans as a dying breed, but rather Republicans are more rational voters than a lot of nationalist leadership would like to believe. What would be the point of leaving the UK now to join a broke Republic?

It would be interesting to see a comparison of polling data in the north with the economic situation in the south - I would be very surprised if the movement wasn't correlated.

murphaph

secondopinion wrote: »

How did that happen mate, when "the British armed forces murdered anyone suspected of voting Sinn Fein"?

Lol, you've got him there!

Anyway, returning briefly to the topic, of course a united Ireland is irrelevant, and it's got less to do with the perceived relevance in NI itself and a lot more to do with the perceived relevance in the RoI. People in the RoI have moved on more or less. They worry about their jobs, their mortgages, their families and so on, like anywhere else. The NI question is "settled" in the vast majority of people's minds.

This is why a united Ireland will likely never happen or at least not for many more generations.

KeithAFC

murphaph wrote: »

Lol, you've got him there!

Anyway, returning briefly to the topic, of course a united Ireland is irrelevant, and it's got less to do with the perceived relevance in NI itself and a lot more to do with the perceived relevance in the RoI. People in the RoI have moved on more or less. They worry about their jobs, their mortgages, their families and so on, like anywhere else. The NI question is "settled" in the vast majority of people's minds.

This is why a united Ireland will likely never happen or at least not for many more generations.

That is why this piece is very interesting. Servants of Rome now looking towards the UK as an ally because the hostility in the Republic is rather high at the moment.

This is why the DUP is now more open towards GAA and other such events to attract future Catholic voters.

woodoo

KeithAFC wrote: »

That is why this piece is very interesting. Servants of Rome now looking towards the UK as an ally because the hostility in the Republic is rather high at the moment.

This is why the DUP is now more open towards GAA and other such events to attract future Catholic voters.

Keith you are making far too much of the link between Irishness and Catholicism. I am an Irishman raised catholic. But i have been moving farther and farther away from that religion over the years. I would prefer to see a secular republic. I don't care what this priest or any priest has to say anymore. They are an irrelevance.

What has happened to the republic over the last few years economically has damaged the support for a UI. But that could change again in the not so distant future.

NinjaK

Who cares what he says, the North is stolen Irish land. The day this land is returned will be a great day.

FUNKY LOVER

What a shock that the republic have turned their backs on the church,now he is just mouthing off because noone cares for the shambles the catholic church is anymore.they had more power than the gards ffs,still hurts to have that power taken away I suppose.

And no priest under 45 cares about a united Ireland?nice generalisation there....


Terrible article to be honest.

tipptom

It sounds to me like a little boy throwing his toys out of the pram because Ireland is now standing up to the vatican,he would jump in with Osama Bin laden to get publicity for his frustrations,the rest is just a red herring.

Solair

Well, it seems to me that the Republic has finally grown up and some church figures are just having a hissy fit about their fading power.

Does he not realise that the church's social standing in the Republic is of its own making. It betrayed and abused vast numbers of people and has put itself on an untenable position. That's what happens when an organisation behaves like that.

To me, the article just shows that the Republic and NI are not on the same road, socially.
Northern Ireland is still highly religious and because of the conflict situation, the churches still have an unusual prominent role in society.

The Republic is just rapidly becoming more like any Northern European country where religion is a private issue.

Pacifist Pigeon

I just think that all forms of nationalism and patriotism (not just Irish) are becoming irrelevant, especially in Europe. This is a good thing. Nationalism and patriotism are totally illogical concepts. They are dying because people are becoming more educated. I hope this leads the way towards the irrelevance of the nation-state.

tipptom

KeithAFC wrote: »

That is why this piece is very interesting. Servants of Rome now looking towards the UK as an ally because the hostility in the Republic is rather high at the moment.

This is why the DUP is now more open towards GAA and other such events to attract future Catholic voters.

Ha Ha Keiths on board,you must have been on the Buckfast last night listening to old speeches of Big Ian whipping up poor idiots in sink estates into a frenzy to go out and kill any "Servants of Rome" that might be unlucky enough to be walking around.Peter Robinson went to his first match as first minister as he has softened up since Iris went offside and he knows that referendem on NI in the next few years is slowly turning the other way and the Scottish referendum is going to accelerate that.Roll on 2016!

secondopinion

tipptom wrote: »

Ha Ha Keiths on board,you must have been on the Buckfast last night listening to old speeches of Big Ian whipping up poor idiots in sink estates into a frenzy to go out and kill any "Servants of Rome" that might be unlucky enough to be walking around.Peter Robinson went to his first match as first minister as he has softened up since Iris went offside and he knows that referendem on NI in the next few years is slowly turning the other way and the Scottish referendum is going to accelerate that.Roll on 2016!

What happens in 2016?

Madam

Pacifist Pigeon wrote: »

I just think that all forms of nationalism and patriotism (not just Irish) are becoming irrelevant, especially in Europe. This is a good thing. Nationalism and patriotism are totally illogical concepts. They are dying because people are becoming more educated. I hope this leads the way towards the irrelevance of the nation-state.

Lol Try saying that in Scotland at the moment:rolleyes:

dlofnep

Border-Rat wrote: »

Key by memory

Dark Green = SF
Light Green = SDLP
Blue = UUP
Red = DUP

dlofnep

Moreover - Who cares what a priest says?

walshb

NinjaK wrote: »

Who cares what he says, the North is stolen Irish land. The day this land is returned will be a great day.

This is it, and no matter what he or anyone else says will never change this.

tipptom

secondopinion wrote: »

What happens in 2016?

That will be when the good friday agreement kicks in and the consent of the majority in NI will consent to "bring it all back home"!

blinding

I think what's bugging the priest is that a lot of catholics are giving up on being catholics.

And who can blame them with the cover up of abuse by the catholic institution.

The relevance of the catholic church in Ireland is greatly reduced and Ireland is a better place for it.

secondopinion

dlofnep wrote: »

Moreover - Who cares what a priest says?

Actual Roman Catholics who can't get into heaven without the sacraments of The RC Church which only an RC Priest can administer?

secondopinion

tipptom wrote: »

That will be when the good friday agreement kicks in and the consent of the majority in NI will consent to "bring it all back home"!

I love a good laugh!:D

Madam

secondopinion wrote: »

I love a good laugh!:D

Your easy made laugh:rolleyes:

Ellis Dee

Stop press: Irish priest talks rubbish.

I can just imagine that headline - not. :rolleyes:

For as long as I have been able to see and hear, Irish priests have been telling us things that just don't - and never could - make any sense at all. From "playing with yourself will make you blind"* to "dances are occasions of sin" to we'll all go to a paradise in the sky when we die, provided you follow our rules. Most sensible people long ago stopped believing any of that, and the depravity and scale of clerical sexual abuse coupled with the efforts of that vile organisation to cover it up have led to a further waning of its power. I suppose opining on national politics, second-guessing the political party that has attracted hundreds of thousands of votes (as against zero for the RCC) and praising an unelected woman who heads both a breakaway church and one of the most dysfunctional families on the planet is a form of escapism for someone who may find that fewer and fewer people are willing to listen to his tales of the sky fairy any longer.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Therefore I remain confident that a United Ireland will come sooner or later, irrespective of what one silly priest or all of them say. Or how much any of them suck up to the aul Windsor wan!:)

Tiocfaidh ár lá!:D:D



*

It didn't in my case, although I do wear glasses

dlofnep

secondopinion wrote: »

Actual Roman Catholics who can't get into heaven without the sacraments of The RC Church which only an RC Priest can administer?

Well, luckily for them - there is no heaven.. So, it's irrelevant either way what a priest says.

southsiderosie

MOD NOTE:

Folks, can we stop the sniping and stay on topic please? If you don't have anything to add other than snark and emoticons, then don't bother posting in this thread.

Manach

The belief in heaven as held by Catholics is of equal validity to the belief that the State acts in the "Common Good" for the Irish people instead of to perpetuate its own existence as an entity. Hence Gilmore's attempt to boost his Party's popularity by courting the new establishment's reflexive anti-Catholicism - hence dis-effecting Catholics as per the initial article.

tipptom

secondopinion wrote: »

I love a good laugh!:D

You said it yourself,Unionism is so desperate for support now to keep the union that they are even wiling to join up with crackpots like this guy from what they see as the "evil empire",and if they are that desperate and willing to do that they know that it is slipping away from them.England couldnt be bothered in polls if Scotland stay in the union or not,what do you think they think about NI.I think the good English people will determine this as much as anyone and they will say why would we want to hold on to a place with silly adult men in bowler hats marching around now that Scotland is gone.

secondopinion

tipptom wrote: »

You said it yourself,Unionism is so desperate for support now to keep the union that they are even wiling to join up with crackpots like this guy from what they see as the "evil empire",and if they are that desperate and willing to do that they know that it is slipping away from them.England couldnt be bothered in polls if Scotland stay in the union or not,what do you think they think about NI.I think the good English people will determine this as much as anyone and they will say why would we want to hold on to a place with silly adult men in bowler hats marching around now that Scotland is gone.

You have an amazing imagination. The people in England couldn't give a damn about anything just like the people in Ireland.

Solair

I think this PR-spin portraying the Catholic Church as some kind of victims of a radical atheist Government is absolutely farcical and could not be further from the truth!

Irish society has changed and is constantly changing, and the churches are just becoming less and less relevant.

The Catholic Church has to deal with the fact that it has done very nasty and totally hypocritical things over the decades that have greatly hurt many people in this country and undermined our democracy, freedoms, rule of law and progress as a state in a lot of ways too.

In my opinion, the Catholic Church took advantage of Irish nationalism by attempting to hijack Irish national identity in the past. There was a very deliberate attempt to ensure that nationalism and a very right wing form of Catholicism were deeply linked.

Catholic Church organisations also grabbed power in what was a fledgling, unstable and very economically poor Republic in the early days too. They were all over public policy making and state service provision in a totally inappropriate way and were seeking ridiculous amounts of influence over aspects of the state. Without any democratic checks or balances on their power.

By doing that, it also totally undermined the aspirations towards a liberal, open, democratic, United Ireland by alienating protestants from Irish nationalism despite the fact that many of the original Republican leaders were protestant!
So, if anything, the Catholic Church probably prolonged partition and reenforced it!

I genuinely think that the Republic has changed. People are a lot wiser and more empowered than they were in the old days. There's very much a sense that more people now understand what democracy is and are willing to lay into public reps who stand in the way of that.

I think what you are seeing is the Republic moving towards being a much more open, democratic, transparent, honest and more people-focused society and a far closer reflection of the ideal of what a proper Republic is supposed to be than it initially was.

Corporatism (bringing unelected, unaccountable organisation into Government, bypassing democracy) is finally becoming unacceptable and I think people are beginning to realise what a terrible idea it was and how damaging and corrupting it can be.

There's a huge difference between a country that guarantees religious freedom vs one that protects a particular religion / chosen set of religions and I sincerely hope that we *never* return to a situation where the state gets captured by a religious organisation again!

As far as I am concerned that Belfast priest's comments are totally unhelpful and unjustifiable.

I also don't think that aspiring to be an open, secular state is in any way anti-Catholic. It simply means hat the state is run democratically in a way that accommodates every citizen, regardless of religious beliefs or lack of religious beliefs.

KeithAFC

secondopinion wrote: »

What happens in 2016?

Nothing.

It does seem interesting that this priest would come out with such comments which could potentially find him in bother with his community. Perhaps it wasn't wise to say what he thought but then again, he probably thought it had to be said.

The Irish Republic does seem to be more hostile towards the Catholic church now. His comments on the Queen was ironic considering she is the head of the Church of England.

goose2005

Pacifist Pigeon wrote: »

I just think that all forms of nationalism and patriotism (not just Irish) are becoming irrelevant, especially in Europe. This is a good thing. Nationalism and patriotism are totally illogical concepts. They are dying because people are becoming more educated. I hope this leads the way towards the irrelevance of the nation-state.

Not totally illogical; a sense of common identity is important for the functioning of a society

That will be when the good friday agreement kicks in and the consent of the majority in NI will consent to "bring it all back home"!

Even when they realise that they are heavily subsidised by British taxpayers and joining the United People's Republican Socialist Thirty-Two County Irish Republic of Éire will mean taking on all of that debt?

Mairead Farrell

The catholic church eh?

Lets take a look at some history shall we? The RCC has always condemned Ireland's struggle for freedom, nationalism and republicanism and defended the status quo. For example, in 1798 they condemned the United Irishmen in very strong terms. Fr Murphy was a heroic exception of course. Initially he towed the churches line which was to encourage/command people to pledge allegiance to the British monarch and to hand in their weapons. He changed his mind when confronted with the reality of the brutality of British troops, he took up arms and became a rebel commander in Wexford. Ultimately he was captured and the British had him "stripped, flogged, hanged, decapitated, his corpse burnt in a barrel of tar and his head impaled on a spike".

Another example is the Roman Catholic Churches conduct during the Tan War/War of Independence. IRA men were condemned as murderers, berated weekly in sermons and in some cases even had their names read out from pulpits. One Bishop said in a letter that IRA men who took part in ambushes against crown forces "have broken the truce of God, they have incurred the guilt of murder." IRA men were also threatened with excommunication. The majority of IRA men were catholics and it would be hard to underestimate the effect that these condemnations and threats had on volunteers and recruitment. Men left the IRA or decided not to join because of the threats of eternal damnation the Church made.

Of course, like Fr John Murphy there were exceptions, but the institution as a whole was against the IRA and the national struggle for freedom.

Now, before we go giving this priests words any special weight or significance lets remember that the Church has always been against change. Always condemned republicanism and nationalism. The only thing different today is that far far far less people care what some priest living in Belfast says.

Who is this guy? Just a Priest. His words mean little. A United Ireland may be irrelevant to him and the Catholic Church, but thats nothing new, in fact it being an irrelevance to them is an improvement, considering that for so long they have actively worked against it.

Pacifist Pigeon

goose2005 wrote: »

Not totally illogical; a sense of common identity is important for the functioning of a society

Yes, but these things can exist on a voluntary basis without the state. Anyways, off-topic.

Manach

Re:War of "Independence", that the Church condemned actions that were leading to violence and civilian deaths is consistent with its mostly stated aim to promote a peaceful society and not one that based on the nationalist law of the gun.
Given the counterfactual scenarios that if not for the Church we would be living in some paradise reminds me an earlier time when the constant reframe was if not for the Brits we would have had a great country.

Rhys Essien

KeithAFC wrote: »

Nothing.

It does seem interesting that this priest would come out with such comments which could potentially find him in bother with his community. Perhaps it wasn't wise to say what he thought but then again, he probably thought it had to be said.

The Irish Republic does seem to be more hostile towards the Catholic church now. His comments on the Queen was ironic considering she is the head of the Church of England.

No Keith,we are after waking up to the fact that religion is a load of $hite.

KeithAFC

Rhys Essien wrote: »

No Keith,we are after waking up to the fact that religion is a load of $hite.

I think you missed my point Rhys. It seems to be the one church in the Republic which gets the most "flak" if you like. Perhaps this is why this man made these comments.

quietriot

Cliffnotes of the interview: Grumpy priest angry that the Catholic church is losing its stranglehold over Ireland and likens the increasing separation of church and pulls the "commie" card.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, some are worth listening to more than others. This man's opinions are clearly not worth listening to, at all.

tipptom

goose2005 wrote: »

Not totally illogical; a sense of common identity is important for the functioning of a society


Even when they realise that they are heavily subsidised by British taxpayers and joining the United People's Republican Socialist Thirty-Two County Irish Republic of Éire will mean taking on all of that debt?

But this is my point.The british taxpayer is going to have their say in no uncertain terms duuring the referendum and say they dont want this Union anymore and they have no financial or cultural intrest in NI and have more in common with people in France or spain than this outpost.Money will make a big part of this decision and they will have to contribute to the handover the same way as giving someone their redundancy.There will have to be money given over for bedding in but ultimatly the British tax payer will have got it of their payroll and will save huge amounts of money in to the future.As for the United peoples R S 32 C I ROE,that sounds like something from a stickies manifesto from the 70s and is scaremongering.I dont think anyone thinks Ireland is a socialist republic or ever was,even our Labour party would be termed as conservative now so that should give some succour to our unionist brothers.;)

secondopinion

tipptom wrote: »

But this is my point.The british taxpayer is going to have their say in no uncertain terms duuring the referendum and say they dont want this Union anymore and they have no financial or cultural intrest in NI and have more in common with people in France or spain than this outpost.Money will make a big part of this decision and they will have to contribute to the handover the same way as giving someone their redundancy.There will have to be money given over for bedding in but ultimatly the British tax payer will have got it of their payroll and will save huge amounts of money in to the future.As for the United peoples R S 32 C I ROE,that sounds like something from a stickies manifesto from the 70s and is scaremongering.I dont think anyone thinks Ireland is a socialist republic or ever was,even our Labour party would be termed as conservative now so that should give some succour to our unionist brothers.;)

Are you spoofing here? What you call 'The British People' will have NO say in any NI referendum - only the people in NI.

As for 'they will have to contribute to the handover the same way as giving someone their redundancy' - you're just making all this up as you go along.

You're living in a fantasy world.