A4 TO A3

jimbo28

Lads,

Joining back up with a club i was with 2 years ago and i have applied for an A3 licence.I have been riding unattached as an A4 for the last 2 years and fiqure its time to move on, however the club secretary says that i am not allowed to take out an A3 licence and must ride as an A4 again this year. He says that if i want an A3 Licence , i must get the points to upgrade to it. Now this is news to me!! Is he right? He reckons that there are new regulations in place in the last few weeks? Morana if you read this can you shed some light on it?

thanks in advance,
jimbo

uberwolf

approved by the board in september. Upgrades need to be earned by collecting points in races.

jimbo28

as far as i understand upgrades have always been points based during the racing season, for last year and this year, but from my understanding there should be no problem taking out an A3 licence at the start of the year. what about new members taking out an A3 licence, as many have done this year?

C3PO

According to the CI rules (Chapter T2 and T3) people who are taking out a first licence should be only granted an A4 licence while people returning to the sport should be granted A3.
From what I understand people with existing A4 licences can only upgrade by achieving 10 points (cumulative over years!).
However there is an appeals procedure!

Beasty

Interestingly the proposal last year was that racers on an IVCA licence without a CI grading would be put into A3. Not sure if that survives into this year

uberwolf

they took issue with people grading themselves to qualify for certain races - gorey being one.

C.I. Board Update in Sept 11 wrote:

The Board has decided that from 2012 grading will be based on a riders ability rather than riders upgrading and downgrading at will in order to make them eligible for particular events as was happening this year.

or as our club sec put it

Any riders attempting to apply for a category higher than what they had in 2011 will not have it approved and will start the season in the same category. If points were scored in 2011, 50% of these points rounded down will be carried over if A2/A3 and if A4, 100% of the points will be carried over.

If you are applying for your first competitive racing Licence (full competition) you will automatically be granted an A4 licence and will have to earn the points to move up to A3.

morana

yeah you have to get your points to go up or dont get any to go down....

If you want to appeal you can email grading@cyclingireland.ie I think you would need to have a good reason.

Chips Lovell

Beasty wrote: »

Interestingly the proposal last year was that racers on an IVCA licence without a CI grading would be put into A3. Not sure if that survives into this year

Actually the proposal last year, the one involving the introduction of the "sport" category had automatically putting IVCA members into A2. My understanding is that old rule now applies, which is A3.

jimbo28

Thanks folks,i must say im a bit sickened now, i was full sure that i could have taken out an A3 this year, was training an all for it!! Ahh well at least i can still have a few pints on a friday night of race weekend so

C3PO

jimbo28 wrote: »

Ahh well at least i can still have a few pints on a friday night of race weekend so

Probably better getting out in some A4 only races and gathering some points so that you don't have the same worry next year!

jimbo28

it should't take too long, im on 7 already.

C3PO

jimbo28 wrote: »

it should't take too long, im on 7 already.

In that case you should be able to get an A3 licence fairly quickly! Two races should do it!!!

levitronix

Was this rule only selective when enforcing it because theres a hell of a lot guys who upgraded this year without any trouble

jimbo28

Thats what i thought too. And i know for a fact that there are guys who have only started in open competition this year, have not raced before...ever, and have taken out an A3???

levitronix

some have gone as far a2

RobFowl

AFAIK it was riders upgrading themselves to do stage races and downgrading themselves after which eventually p*ssed the grading officers off so much it was decided to make it more transparent and done on merit only (ie points scored). Exceptions can be applied for but as Morana said you'd need to convince them !!!0.
As its new I'd saw some are falling through the cracks but suspect this will get less and less.
If you was to go up skip the pints and score some points
(sorry for the pun )

jimbo28

Id say there are more than a few!! Or else,they are just starting to enforce it now that most applications are already gone through? The main reason i was a bit pissed off was that i wanted to do Rás Chonamara. Even if ido skip the pints rob fowl, it can still be difficult to score points.I know that i am fit enough to ride the stage races and not be competitive, just sit in and be happy.It just seems a bit unfair is all. im just sorry that idid not upgrade earlier last year! My own fault i know

RobFowl

Jimbo it does seem unfair. upgrading is difficult. Shaungil did it but was only getting hald points as most races are ,50k and no points for first a4 in handicaps.
The points system could do with a rethink too go along with this.
Blame those who ugraded to do the likes of the Gorey then looked to go back down immediately after.....

jimbo28

ya i know......i hear quite a few did upgrade/downgrade last year, still dont understand why they did that.If a rider is fit enough to ride gorey or any other stage race then that rider is well able to stay in A3.

Cheers for all the replies lads....now off to bed and try take out my aggression on the field tomorrow in loughrea:)

manwithaplan

Didn't really understand all of this points stuff and the difficulty in upgrading. Only took out an A4 licence for the first time this year. I got placed in a race on a one day licence last year - I presume I can't retrieve the points now?

Plastik

How highly placed do you have to be in a race to gain points?

Ryaner

manwithaplan wrote: »

Didn't really understand all of this points stuff and the difficulty in upgrading. Only took out an A4 licence for the first time this year. I got placed in a race on a one day licence last year - I presume I can't retrieve the points now?

As I understand it, 100% of the points follow you each year in A4.

Plastik wrote: »

How highly placed do you have to be in a race to gain points?

http://www.cyclingireland.ie/getattachment/ee9e3233-ecc6-4368-80b0-0174c0054c56/Categories-2011.aspx
Page 4 in that is the points for 2011. I'd assume they haven't changed much this year.
In short, it ends up being first 6 across the line.

manwithaplan

Ryaner wrote: »

As I understand it, 100% of the points follow you each year in A4.

The problem is that I was on a one day licence so there's no obvious way to associate those points with me as a 2012 full licence holder. My guess is that the points don't get assigned (or technically "won" either) in the first place.

Ryaner

You can check your results on the CI website however I'm not sure how accurate it is. I scored points on a full licence which don't show there. The race results are all kept so I'd assume you could email them and get the day licence points assigned to you once you remember the race.

jimbo28

So today i finish fourth in the A4 Race, should be 3 points if the race is over a 60km circuit, now heres the kicker, because i have to ride on a one day licence due to my licence not being processed yet, are those points dead in the water?

morana

jimbo28 wrote: »

So today i finish fourth in the A4 Race, should be 3 points if the race is over a 60km circuit, now heres the kicker, because i have to ride on a one day licence due to my licence not being processed yet, are those points dead in the water?

Pm me your details and i will make sure you get them.

levitronix

jimbo28 wrote: »

So today i finish fourth in the A4 Race, should be 3 points if the race is over a 60km circuit, now heres the kicker, because i have to ride on a one day licence due to my licence not being processed yet, are those points dead in the water?

There that didnt take long did it, welcome to A3, you would of had it last year if you raced more jimbo because you where always close in the races i seen you in

harringtonp

RPL1 wrote: »

According to the CI rules (Chapter T2 and T3) people who are taking out a first licence should be only granted an A4 licence while people returning to the sport should be granted A3.
From what I understand people with existing A4 licences can only upgrade by achieving 10 points (cumulative over years!).
However there is an appeals procedure!

Can anybody clear up the situation on one day licenses. Can you turn at a race and take out a one day A3 ? Or can you only race A4 on a one day ?

harringtonp

harringtonp wrote: »

Can anybody clear up the situation on one day licenses. Can you turn at a race and take out a one day A3 ? Or can you only race A4 on a one day ?

Nobody knows ? Guess the answer is try it and see

morana

harringtonp wrote: »

Nobody knows ? Guess the answer is try it and see

In regional champs 1 day licence holders will ride the A4 afaik which is probably because its a non championship event. none allowed in National champs, Crits or stage races.

I think you can sign on for any race with the 1 day. I have checked the tech regs and cant see where it designates a 1 day means you have to enter the A1 race.

BTW all the regs are here

harringtonp

morana wrote: »

In regional champs 1 day licence holders will ride the A4 afaik which is probably because its a non championship event. none allowed in National champs, Crits or stage races.

I think you can sign on for any race with the 1 day. I have checked the tech regs and cant see where it designates a 1 day means you have to enter the A1 race.

BTW all the regs are here

Thanks for that.

P.

ballyharpat

just dug up this thread, I raced in A4 yesterday, have a full licence, I came 5th or 6th, the official results weren't announced before I left. I checked sticky bottle and there is a mix up in their results. I would like to start getting points and upgrade to A3, so the pints are a biggie for me..... anyone have any idea how to get the points for yesterday in Broadford? also the cycling ireland website seems to be down.....

morana

ballyharpat wrote: »

just dug up this thread, I raced in A4 yesterday, have a full licence, I came 5th or 6th, the official results weren't announced before I left. I checked sticky bottle and there is a mix up in their results. I would like to start getting points and upgrade to A3, so the pints are a biggie for me..... anyone have any idea how to get the points for yesterday in Broadford? also the cycling ireland website seems to be down.....

write to the office and explain. it will depend on whats in the commissaires report. If you arent listed then no points.Why didnt you get your prize???

Pawlie

ballyharpat wrote: »

just dug up this thread, I raced in A4 yesterday, have a full licence, I came 5th or 6th, the official results weren't announced before I left. I checked sticky bottle and there is a mix up in their results. I would like to start getting points and upgrade to A3, so the pints are a biggie for me..... anyone have any idea how to get the points for yesterday in Broadford? also the cycling ireland website seems to be down.....

Any RR upto 50km you get 3 points for a win,2 for 2nd and 1 for 3rd.
Any RR FROM 50km to 100kmb you get 8 points for win,7 for 2nd,6 for 3rd and so on.
Any RR over 100km poinys for win start at 10 and go down thru to 10th place.

If yea were not in top 3 a4 race sat you get nil points

Harrybelafonte

Pawlie wrote: »

Any RR upto 50km you get 3 points for a win,2 for 2nd and 1 for 3rd.
Any RR FROM 50km to 100kmb you get 8 points for win,7 for 2nd,6 for 3rd and so on.
Any RR over 100km poinys for win start at 10 and go down thru to 10th place.

If yea were not in top 3 a4 race sat you get nil points

????

ballyharpat

Pawlie wrote: »

Any RR upto 50km you get 3 points for a win,2 for 2nd and 1 for 3rd.
Any RR FROM 50km to 100kmb you get 8 points for win,7 for 2nd,6 for 3rd and so on.
Any RR over 100km poinys for win start at 10 and go down thru to 10th place.

If yea were not in top 3 a4 race sat you get nil points

Saturdays race was over 50k? 33 miles I believe, didn't know if there was a prize or not, finished the race around 2.30 and at 4.40 there had still been no prizes given, so decided to head away.....

Pawlie

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

????

mmm what dont you understand man

Peterx

As someone else pointed out the A4 points scoring system needs tweaking. Many of the races are supposed to be less than 50km.
Points in ALL the A4 races should be for at least first 6 across the line.

It's definitely not a "beginner" category at the moment anyway, especially with many lads strong enough, and willing, to ride A3 being kept in A4 by the lack of points on offer compounding the rule not allowing them to start in A3.

I raced A3 in Navan (great fun and thanks to organisers) and there were at least 3 crashes and numerous instances of slowdowns as the bunch contracted due to oncoming cars.
From talking to a friend who rode A4 the supposedly less experienced A4 bunch had no incidents of note...

Essentially A3 and A4 can be somewhat interchangable on a given day so why not let strong A4 lads self upgrade??

Pawlie

ballyharpat wrote: »

Saturdays race was over 50k? 33 miles I believe, didn't know if there was a prize or not, finished the race around 2.30 and at 4.40 there had still been no prizes given, so decided to head away.....

42km it was sat.
it was 1 full lap and then 7/8's of the lap

Chips Lovell

Peterx wrote: »

Essentially A3 and A4 can be somewhat interchangable on a given day so why not let strong A4 lads self upgrade??

We did. Anyone who wanted to go up a category this year could.

Harrybelafonte

Pawlie wrote: »

mmm what dont you understand man

"And so on", so everyone down to 1point? If so, then ballyharpat would have received points?

Ah, you last post explains it.

Peterx

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

We did. Anyone who wanted to go up a category this year could.

Aha, I fell for the ould reading the old thread posts and jumping in with a comment trap..... well done all, great work this year! :P

DaveR1

ballyharpat wrote: »

just dug up this thread, I raced in A4 yesterday, have a full licence, I came 5th or 6th, the official results weren't announced before I left. I checked sticky bottle and there is a mix up in their results. I would like to start getting points and upgrade to A3, so the pints are a biggie for me..... anyone have any idea how to get the points for yesterday in Broadford? also the cycling ireland website seems to be down.....

I have a video of the A4 finish in Broadford here. What number and club were you and hopefully I can help. Can't seem to upload it.

You weren't 5th anyway because I know him, a pink jersey is 6th. 7th has a green back and black sleeves?
8th white back + blue sleeves and 9th is a blue jersey. Hope this helps??

ballyharpat

DaveR1 wrote: »

I have a video of the A4 finish in Broadford here. What number and club were you and hopefully I can help. Can't seem to upload it.

You weren't 5th anyway because I know him, a pink jersey is 6th. 7th has a green back and black sleeves?
8th white back + blue sleeves and 9th is a blue jersey. Hope this helps??

DaveR1 wrote: »

I have a video of the A4 finish in Broadford here. What number and club were you and hopefully I can help. Can't seem to upload it.

You weren't 5th anyway because I know him, a pink jersey is 6th. 7th has a green back and black sleeves?
8th white back + blue sleeves and 9th is a blue jersey. Hope this helps??

wow, nice one DaveR, thanks. I didn't have my number, didn't receive it yet. I was riding a specialized Tarmac-black and red, wearing a Killarney Cycling Club jersey, black helmet with yellow peaked/cycling cap underneath it..... I am waiting here like I am getting the result for the first time, lol....heart is palpitating :P

the Killarney Cycling jersey is pink so that clears it up, thanks!

joe50

pretty sure 6th was a lad from coachford, but I could be wrong

DaveR1

Ok... I have attached stills of who I have as 6th and 7th.... The camera was moving following people accross the line so I have a close up of 6th and a pic of 7th from behind.

I think it is the 2 finish photos before the line that are best.... 7th does appear to have a yellow peaked cap!!! Think its pretty clear there.

Just as a side note this video was taken by a total amatuer on a phone. I think it is pretty ridiculous that the organisers don't have a good video of the finish at every race from 1 or 2 different angles that can be uploaded onto the internet and let everybody see where they finished!

Kav0777

ballyharpat wrote: »

wow, nice one DaveR, thanks. I didn't have my number, didn't receive it yet. I was riding a specialized Tarmac-black and red, wearing a Killarney Cycling Club jersey, black helmet with yellow peaked/cycling cap underneath it..... I am waiting here like I am getting the result for the first time, lol....heart is palpitating :P

the Killarney Cycling jersey is pink so that clears it up, thanks!

Here's a link to photos on sticky bottle:

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/great-set-of-photos-from-the-cycling-pursuits-cup-in-broadford-co-limerick/

DaveR1

Kav0777 wrote: »

Here's a link to photos on sticky bottle:

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/great-set-of-photos-from-the-cycling-pursuits-cup-in-broadford-co-limerick/

They are a bit helpful but still nothing conclusive on the A4 race! He definitely has more photos between the shot of the top 7 50m from the line and the picture after they have all crossed the line and are out of shot. Its the middle pics that are needed but aren't uploaded!

ballyharpat

joe50 wrote: »

pretty sure 6th was a lad from coachford, but I could be wrong

Ha jeeze, was there a breakaway? DaveR, any chance you could have a look through the vid again and see if you can get some clarification, my jersey has pink sleeves, but the yellow cap should be a giveaway, we were certain tht One of our own, John, got 3rd, and I was only two behind him, he saw a vid after the race as well and thought that the result was me in 6th....thanks....

DaveR1

ballyharpat wrote: »

Ha jeeze, was there a breakaway? DaveR, any chance you could have a look through the vid again and see if you can get some clarification, my jersey has pink sleeves, but the yellow cap should be a giveaway, we were certain tht One of our own, John, got 3rd, and I was only two behind him, he saw a vid after the race as well and thought that the result was me in 6th....thanks....

Look at the photos I uploaded
I'm happy Coachford was 6th..... http://www.coachfordcyclingclub.ie/about-the-club/gear/

petethedrummer

this might come in hand Bally.
http://www.tas-cas.org/address