General Discussion Goes Here

Myrddin

I've seen this idea work very well on other forums, just to have a general discussion thread for topics that don't really require their own threads


One thing I don't quite understand, is that there seems to be some doubt over Dooku. People argue it's not clear in the prequel trilogy where his allegiances lie. But given that he didn't set Kenobi free on Geonosis, returned to Coruscant & was addressed by The Emperor as 'Lord Tyrannus', had a pitched battle with Anakin & Kenobi - defeating both...in one film alone. In Ep 3 he could easily have killed Kenobi during the Chancellors rescue.

I know he went to the bother of explaining the whole scheme to Kenobi on Geonosis, but wasn't that to create doubt & mistrust? I can't fathom why there's any doubt he was a Sith.

Enlighten me

downwithpeace

He's a Sith f**ked over by a more powerful Sith.

In the end he was a pawn used to channel Anakins hatred and making him the replacement, the films leave out to much to really know. If he knew about the Emperor/Clone connection then maybe there would have been a question to his loyalties but from what I remember he was just a Sith with a master who saw him as a pawn to power.

I'll have to watch EP3 to see that speech again, I have forgotten it.

Myrddin

downwithpeace wrote: »

He's a Sith f**ked over by a more powerful Sith.

In the end he was a pawn used to channel Anakins hatred and making him the replacement, the films leave out to much to really know. If he knew about the Emperor/Clone connection then maybe there would have been a question to his loyalties but from what I remember he was just a Sith with a master who saw him as a pawn to power.

I'll have to watch EP3 to see that speech again, I have forgotten it.

The speech is in Ep2, when Kenobi gets captured on Geonosis. I'm fairly sure he knew about the clone connection, as he told Kenobi that the same man is on both sides or something to that effect.

It must be just the script that causes people to be uncertain about him

downwithpeace

I think your right about the same man bit so he might have known to a point, the way the prequels turned out it wouldn't have mattered if he lived but lost the war which sort of backs up him knowing.

Myrddin

Absolutely love the weight of this scene from Ep3. It so unlike anything else from the saga. The turmoil caused by knowing his only way to save Padme is about to be lost, at least, that's what he was led to believe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zq4hggJjVU

downwithpeace

It's an interesting scene, gives the viewer some time to consider what's going to happen and shows that the story is built, partly, on a love story.


Jar Jar Binks, if all his messing around had been left out and he was used for the Jedi Gungan introduction and bridge between the Gungans and the Naboo then he would have been a much better character, does anyone actually like him from EP1.

Myrddin

downwithpeace wrote: »

It's an interesting scene, gives the viewer some time to consider what's going to happen and shows that the story is built, partly, on a love story.


Jar Jar Binks, if all his messing around had been left out and he was used for the Jedi Gungan introduction and bridge between the Gungans and the Naboo then he would have been a much better character, does anyone actually like him from EP1.

Apart from kids, I've never met anyone who finds he actually has a point in the film. In fact far from being pointless, there are some important scenes made less important by his very presence. The gulf between say 3PO & Binks is massive, & its so noticeable especially as they're in the same film [Ep1]

ziedth

I felt that Dooku was kind of a needless character (and I love Christoper Lee), I always thought the E 1-3 would have worked way better if Darth Maul had survived E1 Kicked their asses in E2 much like Dooku did and Anakin take him down easily in E3 basically showing how powerful he had become.

as for Jar Jar nothing good came from him being in the films. terrible idea for a character. I also think they totally got Anakin wrong in E1, I didn't like the cute kid angle at all. Personally, I'd have love to seen him come into it in his early teens and just have a dark side (excuse the pun) and maybe show a flicker of anger here and there.

Myrddin

ziedth wrote: »

I felt that Dooku was kind of a needless character (and I love Christoper Lee), I always thought the E 1-3 would have worked way better if Darth Maul had survived E1 Kicked their asses in E2 much like Dooku did and Anakin take him down easily in E3 basically showing how powerful he had become.

Maul was criminally underused. Would have been infinitely better to have him last up until Ep3 like you say

downwithpeace

I remember seeing a good few people dressed as Darth Maul during The Phantom Menace release, must have really ticked them off when they found out the came as the one off movie bad guy. Darth Maul would have been an excellent character for the other two movies even in a reduced role type like The Phantom Menace, possibilities, possibilities.

Surion

ziedth wrote: »

I also think they totally got Anakin wrong in E1, I didn't like the cute kid angle at all. Personally, I'd have love to seen him come into it in his early teens and just have a dark side (excuse the pun) and maybe show a flicker of anger here and there.

Surely that was to show that some how, behind all the anger and evil, there was a child in there. One that had to handle complex emotions [perhaps also the reason that Jedi don't accept children over a certain age!], but wasn't able to. Sounds almost text book psychotherapy :rolleyes:

In EP1, Yoda says; fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. Kinda sums up the entirety of Anakins fall to the dark side [que breathing...]

Kids and big sci-fi films just don't work, so agree to a small degree, but there was the matter of mass marketing I guess!!

kitakyushu

EnterNow wrote: »

I've seen this idea work very well on other forums, just to have a general discussion thread for topics that don't really require their own threads

One thing I don't quite understand, is that there seems to be some doubt over Dooku. People argue it's not clear in the prequel trilogy where his allegiances lie. But given that he didn't set Kenobi free on Geonosis, returned to Coruscant & was addressed by The Emperor as 'Lord Tyrannus', had a pitched battle with Anakin & Kenobi - defeating both...in one film alone. In Ep 3 he could easily have killed Kenobi during the Chancellors rescue.

I know he went to the bother of explaining the whole scheme to Kenobi on Geonosis, but wasn't that to create doubt & mistrust? I can't fathom why there's any doubt he was a Sith.

Enlighten me

I don't think anyone has the problem is understanding that Dooku is a 'baddie' so to speak. He's obviously a sith and an opponent to to the Jedi, acting against the 'good' guys so much so to have 2x duels with them. He also shares scenes with the emperor.

The problem lies in understanding what his motivation is i.e. was he working towards an evil or noble cause and did he understand what the Emperor was really up to? Indeed when he is killed in Ep3 there is a surprised look on his face when he is executed as tho he hasn't really understood what is going on all this time or hasn't realised how ruthless the emperor is.

I've seen the prequels many times now I still couldn't 100% tell you what the hell was going on with Dooku. I'd like to say he was a typical Sith (half intent on serving his master, half intent on killing his master), but in the two movies it really doesn't play out that clearly or straightforwardly.

kitakyushu

downwithpeace wrote: »

Jar Jar Binks, if all his messing around had been left out and he was used for the Jedi Gungan introduction and bridge between the Gungans and the Naboo then he would have been a much better character, does anyone actually like him from EP1.

I actually like him in the final battle sequence when he was goofing around and doing his Buster Keaton impression. However I hated him for the rest of the movie, but no more than QuiGon, ObiWan, Padme or any of the rest of them. The whole hero cast just sucked the joy right out of the screen every time the appeared.

kitakyushu

ziedth wrote: »

I also think they totally got Anakin wrong in E1, I didn't like the cute kid angle at all. Personally, I'd have love to seen him come into it in his early teens and just have a dark side (excuse the pun) and maybe show a flicker of anger here and there.

I think the original idea was to hint that the kid was bad right from the start and imho that would have worked better. Indeed there is a deleted scene in Ep1 where Anakin beats up the Rodian boy during an argument. The scene was eventually cut. I think Lucas wanted to portray Anakin as this perfect kid who was just full of goodness to show the eventual contrast of his downfall. However that point it becomes too hard to buy into.

Myrddin

Thread renamed to accommodate all general discussion, not just Ep's 1-3.

Suppose you've all seen the Millenium Falcon in Ep 3?

downwithpeace

Never noticed that, neat.

Mr. K

EnterNow wrote: »

Maul was criminally underused. Would have been infinitely better to have him last up until Ep3 like you say

Yeah, they should have made Maul the Vader of the prequels. I suspect Lucas wanted as many different characters as possible, to sell more action figures!

kitakyushu

Mr. K wrote: »

Yeah, they should have made Maul the Vader of the prequels. I suspect Lucas wanted as many different characters as possible, to sell more action figures!

I think the high turnover of sith apprentices was meant to suggest the precariousness of the position as well as the ruthlessness and insincerity of the sith master-apprentice relationship.

Unfortunately like with much of the prequels the ideas are so badly developed and presented that the underlying message is lost.

Myrddin

kitakyushu wrote: »

I think the high turnover of sith apprentices was meant to suggest the precariousness of the position as well as the ruthlessness and insincerity of the sith master-apprentice relationship.

Unfortunately like with much of the prequels the ideas are so badly developed and presented that the underlying message is lost.

I always got that 'tone', with the Sith Master/Apprentice relationship too. Darth Plagueis, killed by his apprentice. Dooku, killed on the order of his master Palpatine. Vader killed Palpatine etc. There seemed to be a trend of one always killing the other.

Which reminds me, two things

1) Was the apprentice of Plageuis actually Palpatine? I think this was revealed in the film, but not entirely sure...

2) Something always struck me about something Vader said more than once. "You don't know the power, of the dark side. I must obey my master". Could one be forgiven for thinking that perhaps Lucas was hinting that if a Sith apprentice killed his master, something really bad would happen? Vader killed his master & then died. Was it the suit damage, or something else

Just something to ponder on. I know the prequels nullify the theory somewhat because Palpatine killed his master & lived...but it's a Sith telling the story. Plus it's Lucas :rolleyes::p

Myrddin

Due to the limited budget the American cast members and crew (including George Lucas) all decided to fly coach class to England, rather than first class. When Carrie Fisher’s mother Debbie Reynolds heard about this she called George Lucas, complaining about how insulting it was for her daughter to be flying coach. Carrie Fisher was in the room with George Lucas when he took the call, and after a few minutes asked if she could talk to her mother. When George Lucas handed her the phone she simply said, “Mother, I want to fly coach, will you f uck off?!” and hung up

Source

Charming, to the last

Myrddin

Thank god this is only a mini-game in the new SW Kinect It's horrific!

I may never see Bespin in the same way again :mad:

downwithpeace

Vodafone Yoda ad and that rubbish, what's next, I'm afraid to know.

Myrddin

"I'm pickin' up my blaster
Put it on my side
I'm jumping in my Falcon
Wookie at my side"


Christ almighty. How the hell could Lucas sign that rubbish off.

ziedth

I just saw an ad for that SW kinect and the in game footage looks epic. Im sure its a pile of balls and bugy out but it gives me great hope for a decade down the line what could be in SW's gaming.

Myrddin

A discussion in the film forum on what made the Prequels so bad. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056605945

Ouch

ziedth

Their not wrong on allot of points TBF, i think they are too hung up on the writing (even the first three were poor on that front) but the lads on the film forum generally know their shít.

Myrddin

ziedth wrote: »

Their not wrong on allot of points TBF, i think they are too hung up on the writing (even the first three were poor on that front) but the lads on the film forum generally know their shít.

Aye, its hard to defend the prequels at the best of times. I do love Ep 3 though...it took two whole bloody films to set the events of Ep 3 up though :mad:

They're right about the politics etc, it was overdone to bits.

Roar

heh heh. love this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZp2D0DuIj0

Myrddin

Haha that's very well done :pac:

Myrddin

/shamless pillaging of pics from cool pics forum

downwithpeace

EnterNow wrote: »

/shamless pillaging of pics from cool pics forum

As the tech gets better the films get worse...hold on a minute, surly that's meant to be the other way around...no...wow :rolleyes:

Myrddin

Sorry, I simple had to pillage another SW pic from the pics forum. Brilliantly funny :pac::pac:

Myrddin

Princess Peach

That picture above is the artwork for the Star Wars Identities exhibit. Just saw the world premier in Montreal the other week!

It was so good. Loads of models, costumes and artwork from the movies. They cheesed it up with this kinda quest you had to go on to make yourself a digital character, I was a star fighter pilot Ewok. But the collection was amazing! Only cried a little :pac:

Few more of the pics. I got the Yoda one on a t-shirt.

Myrddin

Wow sounds deadly, what kind of models were there, actual movie props like or kit models?? Love all that stuff :cool:

Princess Peach

They had the models of the ships used for filming the original trilogy. They were really cool. My pics didn't come out great cause you weren't allowed to use a flash. At least they let you take pictures though! Its going to another Canadian city in September, then around the world for another 6 years. Very much doubt it will be in Ireland!

downwithpeace

It's almost a certainty I would go more nuts if I got my hand on that AT-AT, god help anyone else that touched it.

Thanks for the photo.

Myrddin

Those models look amazing, their actually shooting models?? Seriously cool :cool:

Myrddin

Another giggle from YLYL

AnCapaillMor

Heh, then again i've seen hamill in 1 or 2 other films and he was pretty bad.

downwithpeace

He was ok the "The Big Red One"

AnCapaillMor

Thats the one with Lee Marvin? if so it was one of the ones i was thinking of. That being said he's a great voice actor, does a great joker in most of the batman cartoons out there.

downwithpeace

Yes that's the one, I found him ok in it as he's a part of a group rather then a single main actor.

Myrddin

Myrddin

CL7

I haven't watched the prequels in years but started with The Phantom Menace last week. I was surprised how much I enjoyed it. It's a flawed movie but it has a lot going for it as well, namely the excellent theme music (Duel Of The Fates is amazing), the pod race, Darth Maul, and the best lightsabre duel in the history of Star Wars. I'd actually rate it above ROTJ.

Attack of the Clones is a different story. Too long, boring and god awful dialogue. I enjoyed parts of it but it's a mess of a movie imo.

I ordered The Prequel Trilogy on Blu-Ray from Amazon, looking forward to watching ROTS again. I remember the "only the sith deal in absolutes" line and Vader's "Nooooo" really bothering me at the time. Other than those two and some other flaws I think I enjoyed it. I hope I'm right.

downwithpeace

EnterNow wrote: »

How I missed that one I'll never know and never forgive myself, that's pure genius.

CL7

I found this on another forum. I enjoyed it anyway.

downwithpeace

CL7 wrote: »

I ordered The Prequel Trilogy on Blu-Ray from Amazon, looking forward to watching ROTS again. I remember the "only the sith deal in absolutes" line and Vader's "Nooooo" really bothering me at the time. Other than those two and some other flaws I think I enjoyed it. I hope I'm right.

That "Nooooo" didn't fit right, made sense he would say something to show he knew he had screwed up but could have been better.

kitakyushu

The funny thing with the "nooooooo" is that it isn't unprecedented imho.

Back in 83 the original cut of ROTJ had Vader making that rather strange echoy "aaaaaghh" sound when he's finally defeated , which on it's own or out of context could sound a bit weird.

I personally found it a very moving sound (esp on the tail end of that bit of choral music that lead up to it. It was the kinda noise that reminded you there was a man trapped inside the suit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRY5dl_oxvo&t=3m00s

I guess Lucas found it moving too as he more or less tried to repeat it with the "noooooo" in ROTS. I get the impression he hoped fans would find it moving rather than ridiculous and was disappointed with the level of resentment it got.

So much so that I suspect he only put a second "noooo" into ROTJ-BD as a reaction to the backlash (either as an weak attempt to unify the occurrences .... or failing that as a two fingers to the fans who had such a problem with it).

Anyway, I think a riff on the "aaaaagh" in ROTJ was what he was trying for anyway with the "nooo". It's just a pity he laid it on a bit heavy.

boarder294

a double agent would be a great explanation if their is...