Virtual Horse Racing

Shanotheslayer

o/

So I've recently started virtual horse race on paddypower online. But I'm curious to know how the winner is selected? It has to be some sort of loop to select the winner of each race?

Does any one know how the system works?

hucklebuck

This should be in a games thread imo.

ste2010

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

o/

So I've recently started virtual horse race on paddypower online. But I'm curious to know how the winner is selected? It has to be some sort of loop to select the winner of each race?

Does any one know how the system works?

What's the attraction? I can never understand it

convert

I agree with ste. If I'm going to lose my money, I'd rather lose it on a real horse rather than on a 'virtual' one...

Huntley

ste2010 wrote: »

What's the attraction? I can never understand it

Money. The same attraction that is associated with any sort of gambling activity.

convert wrote: »

I agree with ste. If I'm going to lose my money, I'd rather lose it on a real horse rather than on a 'virtual' one...

The majority of people who back on real horses may aswell be backing on virtual ones.

Shano why don't you start to analyse real racing? Read as many forums or whatever as possible to see different opinions and you will eventually get the grasp of finding angles and whatnot after a few months.

Juwwi

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

o/

So I've recently started virtual horse race on paddypower online. But I'm curious to know how the winner is selected? It has to be some sort of loop to select the winner of each race?

Does any one know how the system works?

I'd say its programmed that the more fancied runners win when its the most quiet time for people playing them like 5:00am in the morning.

Your best off stop playing them you could ask 100 people their opinion
on virtual online horses and 99 if not 100 will tell you to stay well away.

ste2010

robbie1977 wrote: »

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

o/

So I've recently started virtual horse race on paddypower online. But I'm curious to know how the winner is selected? It has to be some sort of loop to select the winner of each race?

Does any one know how the system works?

I'd say its programmed that the more fancied runners win when its the most quiet time for people playing them like 5:00am in the morning.

Your best off stop playing them you could ask 100 people their opinion
on virtual online horses and 99 if not 100 will tell you to stay well away.

.what your doing is your putting trust in the bookies to operate the software or whatever vendor enployed by the bookies to operate the software fairly...If they weren't going to make a profit on this then why would they bother with it in the first place..I would be very surprised if its not an results algorithm that is triggered by bets placed by people and I can firmly say bookies wouldn't be paying vendors for software if it wouldn't make them a profit..

btard

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

o/

So I've recently started virtual horse race on paddypower online. But I'm curious to know how the winner is selected? It has to be some sort of loop to select the winner of each race?

Does any one know how the system works?

It's a random number generator draw. Visualise a hundred balls put in a bowl. Each ball will have a horses name on it. The more balls a particular horse has it's name on reflects it's chances of being drawn which is reflected in the odds. It wouldn't neccasarily have to be crooked for them to make money. I presume it's highly overounded to give a good profit for the operators.

Joe10000

btard wrote: »

It's a random number generator draw. Visualise a hundred balls put in a bowl. Each ball will have a horses name on it. The more balls a particular horse has it's name on reflects it's chances of being drawn which is reflected in the odds. It wouldn't neccasarily have to be crooked for them to make money. I presume it's highly overounded to give a good profit for the operators.

This is how I understand it works too and the bookies win the majority of races and have a margin built in so there is no reason to believe virtual racing to be any different.

abouttobebanned

A couple of points about this.

1. Huntley is spot on. It makes me laugh the some gamblers can be snobbish about what they throw their money away on. An example...I watched a chap walk into a bookies recently...look up at the screen...see a favourite...stuck 50 on it...and then proceeded to lambast the amateur jockey that was ok board. The same guy was heard by me recently mocking someone for backing virtual horses.

I don't back virtual horses but only cause I have no interest in any kind of casino games. But what that guy did was the exact same as backing virtual in my eyes. Id even go as far as to say you have a better chance of a winner in a virtual race than some Irish handicaps.

Secondly, unless I see proof of how the winners are decided then I won't believe that it's a balls in a drum scenario. I'm a sceptic, a lot of people on here know this. I don't trust bookmakers and I constantly question how they operate.

ste2010

I'll try an find out more about this but being in the software industry myself this is how it would probably work I'll let you make your own judgement.

Eg Paddy power are in the industry of bookmaking not software design. I believe they design their own websites and apps etc but virtual horse racing is like a game and is completely different kind of programming and involves a much higher level of expertise to design. It may be possible for them to design this but it would make no sense that paddy power created this software as this is not their expertise bookmaking is. If my view serves me correct then this is how it would prob happen.

Software vendor approaches paddy power asks would they be interested in viewing a virtual racing product they could use. Paddy power says yes. Vendor says it costs x amount for you to have it but we can guarantee that you make x amount over x amount of races etc or if you have 4000 raves a year and 10 people bet on each race you will earn x amount of money. This means that we make a profit of x and you make a profit of y and we can give the punter an occasional pay out too.
Again if my view serves me correctly this is a purpose built profit making system to pay the vendor and to pay paddy power more money than it costs for them to pay the vendor otherwise it wouldnt make sense as thw whole idea is to make a profit not to give punters the real life race experience replicated by software...
This is simply a view and not a fact but It makes sense what I'm saying and I would be HIGHLY surprised if I was wrong.

Other than conparong the chance element To compare this to real horse racing from a punting point of view completely baffles me. Whats the difference profits will be guaranteed in VR but horse racing in reality does not guarantee profits

Trainers, ground, race, frequency, Courses, mistakes etc..I don't need to go on..does this software incorporate these kind Of indicators?...

Joe10000

You have to remember that virtual horse racing is like a FOBT, horses are just the theme, virtual greyhounds, cycling and football are the exact same.

ste2010

Joe10000 wrote: »

You have to remember that virtual horse racing is like a FOBT, horses are just the theme, virtual greyhounds, cycling and football are the exact same.

Yes this would make sense but would you agree tthe business theme for each of these would be make a Guaranteed profit ?otherwise what's the point in making it available

Joe10000

Of course !! The odds of every betting game are in the houses favour.

ste2010

Joe10000 wrote: »

Of course !! The odds of every betting game are in the houses favour.

I know what you mean but this is a little bit different it's alot more fixed as opposed to variable. It's not anything like horse racing in reality it only shares aspects of chance

Joe10000

Virtual horse racing is like playing a slot machine, it has nothing to do with horse racing.

sir joker

raceclubs is the best virtual horse racing game in the world

FortuneChip

Joe10000 wrote: »

Virtual horse racing is like playing a slot machine, it has nothing to do with horse racing.

The second part of your post is right, the first part isn't.

Slot machines pay out 1 in X amount of Spins.
Virtual racing (or whatever theme) work on a weighted Random Number generator. The 100 lotto balls analogy would be pretty much spot on.

And there's no way they're developed in house, it's definitely external parties.
The developers just tailor them to suit the related brand (horse names, tracks, colour schemes etc).

As far as betting on them goes... unless I was just playing with a euro or two in the gaps between races (which most virtuals are scheduled to do) on a horse with good name.

byronbay2

I'm not into the virtual horse racing myself but I'll tell you something: the guy who trains Cab Calloway should have his license revoked! The horse has run about 4000 times in the past year, must be about 15 years old now and yet is still always one of the favourites. It's time for a graceful retirement and off to virtual stud, I reckon!

FortuneChip

byronbay2 wrote: »

I'm not into the virtual horse racing myself but I'll tell you something: the guy who trains Cab Calloway should have his license revoked! The horse has run about 4000 times in the past year, must be about 15 years old now and yet is still always one of the favourites. It's time for a graceful retirement and off to virtual stud, I reckon!

Paradise Valley or Happy Hill?

Interesting thing with the virtual races that are shown on Turf TV.
Once the race starts, they put up the numbers & names of the three leading horses; I think 9 times out of 10 the winner comes from there (irrelevant as you can't take advantage, but definitely noticeable).
So the lesson is, don't back a horse that likes to come from behind!

plasteritup

Collect about 967.50 on a football bet a couple of years back in boyles,walking out the door and looked a virtual race about to start,put the 17.50 on 33/1 horse cause I could picture him being called the winner,guess what .great day that was.

DANNY2014

Virtuals have no logic at all imo but I done One half an hour ago 81/1 and hey it won... Only done 15cent each way for the craic... Profit is profit...

DANNY2014

Virtuals have no logic at all imo but I done One half an hour ago 81/1 and hey it won... Only done 15cent each way for the craic... Profit is profit...

nuckeythompson

btard wrote: »

It's a random number generator draw. Visualise a hundred balls put in a bowl. Each ball will have a horses name on it. The more balls a particular horse has it's name on reflects it's chances of being drawn which is reflected in the odds. It wouldn't neccasarily have to be crooked for them to make money. I presume it's highly overounded to give a good profit for the operators.

thats exactly how it is done

seoirsem

Out of left field question but what role, if any, did the foot and mouth outbreak have in the rise of virtual racing?? IMO it gave the bookies all the ammunition they needed to introduce it. Shops full of gamblers with the prospect of no horse racing to bet on otherwise.

nuckeythompson

seoirsem wrote: »

Out of left field question but what role, if any, did the foot and mouth outbreak have in the rise of virtual racing?? IMO it gave the bookies all the ammunition they needed to introduce it. Shops full of gamblers with the prospect of no horse racing to bet on otherwise.

spot on and then with the foreign racing too.

Soft Falling Rain

Ah the oul virtuals. Depressing stuff, I once had an oul fella try and tell me he could read form in virtual horse racing. I just looked at him and explained it's randomly computer generated, that's why you get paid out instantly.

He justed laughed at me, so I said you're right pal, only buzzing and left him to it. :pac:

baddog150

hi folks im new to this site and iv just read two pages of people trying to figure out how virtuals work, iv been trying myself for a while now and iv boiled it down to two spots steeples and portman, is there anyone out there prepared to, heres a big word for me prepared to predict the winners, iv been following them for a while now and find more of a routeen in portman and steeples than anywhere else,please dont get me wrong im not saying i have it sorted but they have gotten me out of more holes than the real horses.I would just like to know is there anyone else out there following these cartoons as i like to call them

Peintre Celebre

I don't mean to sound rude or to make it personal baddog but if you are relying on virtual horses to dig you out of holes I'd stop gambling altogether.

heaneyd

I am interested in this too.

I think it is IVG that provide the software to the bookies. But they don't say much about how the results are generated, just that the bookie can configure their own margins. They also say that they are compliant and approved by a number of independent bodies. So I rule out that the bookie is fixing the races, these races are basically random number generators without the bookie being able to interfere in the winner or 2nd place. They can set their long term margin.

From inspiredgaminggroup's website.

"Unlike competing products, the schedules and margins are 100 per cent operator configurable, and the graphics can be customised with branded backgrounds."

Anyway you can easily figure out the over round yourself by converting odds to probabilities and summing them. I've done this for a few races. Most races are about 120%. Is this edge spread evenly across all competitors? Or like real racing is there a smaller edge on the favourite and a huge edge on the outsiders (Check wikik on Favourite-longshot_bias).

I am particularly interested in figuring out the probability of not just 1st, but 2nd.

So say you have 6 horses - evens, 2/1, 3/1, 7/1. Overround is 1.2. (0.5 + 0.33 + 0.25 + 0.125 = 1.20833).

So the actual probability of each horse winning is 0.5/1.2, 0.33/1.2 etc to normalise to 100% (assuming same margin on each horse).

So horse 1 prob win = 41%
horse 2 = 28%
horse 3 = 21%
horse 4 = 10%

So imagine 100 balls in a drum and 41 have horse 1's name on them, 28 have horse 2's name on them, etc. You draw a ball at random and that determines the winner of the race.

So what happens next. You remove all the winner's balls from the drum and draw again for 2nd. So if horse 1 was the first ball drawn there would be 59 balls left and 28 would still have horse 2's name on it - so he would have 47% chance of coming second given horse 1 wins.

Is this the correct understanding?

Is there historic data available of virtual racing results?

Lt Dan

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

o/

So I've recently started virtual horse race on paddypower online. But I'm curious to know how the winner is selected? It has to be some sort of loop to select the winner of each race?

Does any one know how the system works?

For the love of God , Allah and all that is holy, stay the hell away from stuff like that. It is evil I tell thee

hawkwind23

I didnt know they had these in the south , thats a pity
They are very popular , originally a random stand in when weather cancelled racing.
Sadly when i worked in a shop people were betting on these and playing the FOBT when Champion Hurdle was on?
You thought the dogs were speedy cleaners , these are a whole new ball game.

They are a RNG (random number generator)
I worked out the overround at 30% on a couple of the smaller fields so imagine the bigger ones.
There is no pattern or method , purely random , you will lose your money and lose it quick

heaneyd

Hi hawkwind.

Thanks for the reply. What I described is random. Is this the way you understand the lottery too?

i.e. Do the favourites have a better chance of winning and coming 2nd?