The Money Maze…WAIT…No, Money Pit! DCU Labyrinth?

irishdude92

So, the Interfaith Centre have their big proposal for the year: A labyrinth so students can walk around and around and around and follow the pattern on the ground till their heads gets dizzy, all for meditative and spiritual purposes.
I’ve no problem with people being spiritual but should it be thrown on people who haven't asked for us at this cost?

But let’s just see the cost. It’s €50,000 for a couple of stone slabs in a circle, according to the picture in the paper. I wonder what else this could be spent on? Another counselor? More awareness of services? Better events? Better Rag Week would’ve been good.

An epic waste of money and time by the so called ‘Labyrinth committee’!!!! I love that this just popped out of nowhere. I’m waiting for the Statue Committee or Tower Committee.

A howl back to the Celtic Tiger days! I wonder who they are?
The committee that gets a free junket to Edinburgh?
More university money down the drain, more of my reg fee not coming back to me!

Typical Celtic Tiger cubs that jump from committee to committee in dcu.

Kavrocks

Rag Week is a totally separate issue and unrelated to this.

irishdude92

I know it's a seperate issue but they could use some of the money being put aside for this towards better events in the future.

Kavrocks

irishdude92 wrote: »

I know it's a seperate issue but they could use some of the money being put aside for this towards better events in the future.

Do you know the current state of the SU's finances?

im invisible

I predict an earthquake up in here


'Cos we throw bombs on it
throw bombs on it...

PanicStations

I have searched the DCU SU website for their published accounts but could not find them. Does anyone have a link to where the DCU SU accounts are published?

Deckof52

This trip is being funded from the Interfaith Budget which is €1,700 according to the College View.

The Peoples Own MP

Fifty grand on a glorified patio? :rolleyes:

Would rather the cash went towards things that are actually useful to students, like more books. Fed up lying in wait, ready to ponce, for someone to return one of the paltry number of law books to the 48hr section.

MrPirate

irishdude92 wrote: »

But let’s just see the cost. It’s €50,000 for a couple of stone slabs in a circle, according to the picture in the paper. I wonder what else this could be spent on?

The Travelator.

The committee that gets a free junket to Edinburgh?

The funny part is that there's a perfectly fine labyrinth in Maynooth that they could go visit, but nope, they're going to Scotland. It's just going to be a pissup on the Interfaith's/SU's money, and a nice dinner for a couple.

Stev_o

MrPirate wrote: »

The Travelator.




The funny part is that there's a perfectly fine labyrinth in Maynooth that they could go visit, but nope, they're going to Scotland. It's just going to be a pissup on the Interfaith's/SU's money, and a nice dinner for a couple.

As opposed to every other society outing? Get real.

MrPirate

Stev_o wrote: »

As opposed to every other society outing? Get real.

I never said anything about societies, did I?
Please learn to read.

The Peoples Own MP

Ridiculous that they are going to Scotland.

extopia

The Peoples Own MP wrote: »

Ridiculous that they are going to Scotland.

Hear hear. This whole new age labyrinth thing was a joke, I assumed, until I saw this thread. Get real folks. We're a scientific institution. Where is the evidence for all this claptrap?

The Peoples Own MP

extopia wrote: »

Hear hear. This whole new age labyrinth thing was a joke, I assumed, until I saw this thread. Get real folks. We're a scientific institution. Where is the evidence for all this claptrap?

Its 50 grand for a fcuking patio.

Who decides whether this goes ahead or not? I think I feel strongly enough about this to do more than complain on the intenet about it :O

Cjayses

0.6% of the Union's annual budget will be donated towards it. So I'm told.

MrPirate

extopia wrote: »

Hear hear. This whole new age labyrinth thing was a joke, I assumed, until I saw this thread. Get real folks. We're a scientific institution. Where is the evidence for all this claptrap?

It's legit. RAG soc seems to be one of the main clients for it.

Cjayses wrote: »

0.6% of the Union's annual budget will be donated towards it. So I'm told.

They're trying to get the SU to donate 10k towards it.

Deckof52

Actually,
0.06% is an incorrect sum.
It's coming from the Union budget which is around 400,000.
Which would make it 4% of the Union budget.
0.06% of the OSL budget but that would increase to 1-3% if they go to SLC & CLC.

Kavrocks

The trip to Scotland has taken place and took place before most of the comments on this thread about it. The feedback from the trip was very good and should be heard campus wide.

This will go ahead whether the SU give €10,000 to it or not, it will just take longer. The motion to donate €10,000 is due to be voted on tomorrow at 5pm by class reps (although it could be postponed again).

extopia

MrPirate wrote: »

It's legit. RAG soc seems to be one of the main clients for it.

Sure - what I meant was 'where is the scientific evidence for the claimed benefits of the labyrinth'

Deckof52 wrote:

t's coming from the Union budget which is around 400,000.
Which would make it 4% of the Union budget.

Well 10k is actually only 2.5% of 400k, FWIW. Still a waste of money though. Unless it's a very nice patio - which has value in itself, apart from its 'spiritual' properties...

Shreddingblood

This is complete and utter bollocks.

Urizen

It may be overpriced, but the basic idea is the right one. Our campus DOES have sweet f**k all to look at except that bloody mosaic on the wall. How much did THAT cost?

We need a bit of decoration. And I for one would welcome a kind of meditation area like the one suggested, despite it being open to abuse by some. Even from a secular viewpoint, it'd be a nice thing to have on campus. But I would agree that it can't possibly be worth €50K, surely we could get it cheaper.

phantom_lord

Talking about in terms of a percentage of the union budget is nonsense. 10k is 10k.

supine

I'll do it for €50 and the cost/use of materials. Those materials being:

1x Paint brush
1x Bucket of white paint

MrPirate

The union should focus instead on getting the OldBar sorted. The amount of societies that got f##ked over with it closing is a little more important to student life than a labyrinth.

EDIT: Just gained wind that the SU passed it in CRC... Lovely.

Garseys

MrPirate wrote: »

EDIT: Just gained wind that the it was passed by class reps in CRC... Lovely.

FYP.

SU Exec don't have a vote in CRC.

MrPirate

Garseys wrote: »

FYP.

SU Exec don't have a vote in CRC.

I know. They're exempt, imo. :P

the99percent

There must be a way of stopping the class reps doing this, its a total waste of money like.

the99percent

the99percent wrote: »

There must be a way of stopping the class reps doing this, its a total waste of money like.

I've been told a petition of 200 students can overturn the class rep decision and force the union to ask the student body. Im thinking of organising this.

seanaor

the99percent wrote: »

I've been told a petition of 200 students can overturn the class rep decision and force the union to ask the student body. Im thinking of organising this.

Count me in. It's a complete waste of money for something that will just be used as a glorified urinal after "Tuesdays @ The Hub".

irishdude92

If anyone else wishes to sign the petition PM me.

thecornflake

Why does it cost so much ? Is a breakdown of the price to be shown soon ?

If the students who want it, really want it that bad then let them all chip in and physically build it themselves as opposed to the huge price tag. They could all have a great time building it or is the whole health and safety / insurance / slave labor problems the excuse ?

DGRulz

The idea of spending 50k on this is ridiculous what's worse is my class rep e-mailed us about it with her reasoning for it being that it'd be fun to run around after Toxic Tuesday. What happens when someone falls and wants to sue DCU. Better yet, countless people for the last few years have protested and complained about how their grants getting cut will mean they have to drop out. Why doesn't the SU spend the money more wisely and off to pay even half of the reg fees for some students, thats potentially ~40 people staying in college. I realize there's more to it then this but it would be a better way to get rid of 50k if they just have that sort of money lying around to be wasted.

the99percent

irishdude92 wrote: »

If anyone else wishes to sign the petition PM me.

Is there going to be a public stand or something so we can sign it, i have a few ppl in my class and they have to who want to sign up???

DCU SF

Just became aware of this thread so I registered an account to let you know that DCU Sinn Féin will be out on campus this week collecting signatures.

In the current Economic climate, whilst employment is scarce and student registration fees are rising, it is unacceptable to spend so much money on a project like this, there are many better ways in which this money can be spent, ways which would greater benefit DCU students.

We in DCU Sinn Féin believe that DCU students themselves should be the people to decide if this large sum of money should be spent in this way. Article 4.5 of the Student Unions Constitution states that: “a petition of minimum 200 union members may mandate a referendum on SU structural, policy or operational change”. The aim of this petition is to get a referendum called so the student body can decide if this donation of 10,000 Euro should be made.

We will be out collecting signatures on Monday afternoon and DCU SF members will be out all this week on campus. It being reading week the campus will be much quieter than normal but if we don't achieve sufficient numbers this week we will of course be out again next week.

From just talking to fellow students the consensus seems to be that this project has seemingly come out of nowhere and caught many by surprise, the first many heard of this was that the Class Representative Council had voted in favour of donating 10,000 Euro. Anecdotally, everyone I have asked about this so far has been dead set against the notion of donating this sum towards building a labyrinth.

While having a labyrinth may be of some benefit to students, there are numerous better ways this large sum of money could be spent. A referendum is the best way to settle this issue in our opinion. Let the students decide.

For those wanting to sign the petition I'd suggest checking our facebook page for updates on exactly where and when we will be out with the petition as these details have not yet been set in stone. I'll try to update this thread with those details also.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003564883231&ref=ts

DCU SF

Update:

We went out on campus today with the petition and enjoyed a very positive reception. At this stage after approximately two hours we have in excess of 130 signatures.

We will be out again on campus tomorrow from 11am (weather permitting) outside the library in order to finish off collecting the signatures.

Many thanks to all those who signed it and listened to what we had to say. If you'd like to sign the petition pop down to the library tomorrow around 11am.

Thanks,

Dave Clougher
DCU Sinn Féin Secretary

Stargazer7

Hi Dave/all,

I'm a postgrad in DCU and I would like to sign the petition also - where and when can I find ye?

Thanks!

DCU SF

Stargazer7 wrote: »

Hi Dave/all,

I'm a postgrad in DCU and I would like to sign the petition also - where and when can I find ye?

Thanks!

I don't know if you saw us outside the library today or not, but I'm delighted to say that we have collected 231 signatures. We decided to go over the target of 200 in case anyone made a mistake, or someone signed it who shouldn't have etc.

Currently we are making a number of copies and DCU Sinn Féin will present these to the relevant people imminently.

Dave Clougher
DCU Sinn Féin Secretary

smiling_patty

The cheapest quote for the labyrinth is actually 64000 € and its so expensive because only one company was asked to provide a quote. So as far as i know the labyrinth committe only asked one company for a quote so there might be other builders who could do it for less but these options have not been "explored". And the voting was influenced by a girl giving a "nice talk" saying how great it was traveling to scotland and walking the labyrinth while doing several hair flips and naive giggles... I will sign the petition because the reps in the class rep council have been lied to. Its a waste of money and this money could be used on better things that all students could benefit from!

smiling_patty

And may i mention that technically all students should have been informed about the labyrinth by their class reps and a vote should have been taken in class to whether the SU should pay the 10.000€ or not. The class rep should have then voted in the class rep meeting according to the decision that was made in class.

smiling_patty

I was told the labyrinth attracts foreign students but all i see is a waste of 10.000 € while students are dropping out of college because they cant afford it.

thecornflake

smiling_patty wrote: »

I was told the labyrinth attracts foreign students but all i see is a waste of 10.000 € while students are dropping out of college because they cant afford it.

Oh yeah, defo, sure the first thing that would enter any sane persons head when deciding to go to DCU is "Well its a good college, but does it have a labyrinth ? " :rolleyes:

Why are they treating us like we are all thick ?

smiling_patty

thecornflake wrote: »

Oh yeah, defo, sure the first thing that would enter any sane persons head when deciding to go to DCU is "Well its a good college, but does it have a labyrinth ? " :rolleyes:

Why are they treating us like we are all thick ?

This is exactly what is said... Yeah i only apply to colleges that have labyrinths... Well i brought my concerns forward in the meetings but i felt nobody was listening and i wasnt able to say it all cause i was cut short... I am so glad that there are smart people out there that see the 10.000 € as a waste and that something is done against it. Lots of my class mates are against it and i will advise them of the petition n make sure they sign it...

Kavrocks

smiling_patty wrote: »

The cheapest quote for the labyrinth is actually 64000 € and its so expensive because only one company was asked to provide a quote. So as far as i know the labyrinth committe only asked one company for a quote so there might be other builders who could do it for less but these options have not been "explored". And the voting was influenced by a girl giving a "nice talk" saying how great it was traveling to scotland and walking the labyrinth while doing several hair flips and naive giggles... I will sign the petition because the reps in the class rep council have been lied to. Its a waste of money and this money could be used on better things that all students could benefit from!

Whilst class reps may have been lied to (the lie has not featured once in this thread and was addressed in CRC already) you have just lied to everybody else.

The girl who gave the talk was not in Scotland and she said so herself.

Class reps were told the labyrinth never went out to tender, they were told details about the one company who was asked for a quote and why it was just that company which was asked.

Class reps were emailed a breakdown of the costs to build the labyrinth also including the €64,000 final cost you speak of above.

If you disagree with the way the vote went that's fine but don't try and garner support for your side with petty lies and misinformation.

The voting was influenced by more than just the girl you speak of and was postponed until the next meeting after her talk because class reps wanted to go back to their class and discuss it with them before voting.

How will all students not benefit from this proposal? What alternatives would you spend the €10,000 on that will benefit EVERY student?

thecornflake

Kavrocks wrote: »

What alternatives would you spend the €10,000 on that will benefit EVERY student?

I dunno, throw it down the drain ? That would at least be a laugh.

First off I would start with a memorial tribute to Paul.

What about more stuff for RAG week ? I'm not too into the whole party in college thing but I heard a lot of people were not happy this year.

Perhaps the 10K could be used as a short term loan amount for students who need a bit of cash to get them through the week until they get payed later ? I know there may be laws ect regarding this but its an idea.

These are just a few of the many ideas which are miles better then a fancy expensive patio which does not benefit all students btw.

Kavrocks

thecornflake wrote: »

What about more stuff for RAG week ? I'm not too into the whole party in college thing but I heard a lot of people were not happy this year.

RAG week is about raising money for charity not about partying, its also passed so unless you have a time machine I don't know how this will happen. Do you not think DCU's SU caters for those who like to party more than anybody else in the college?
Adding more into RAG week in the form of parties will benefit only those who like to party in DCU and not the entire campus.

Perhaps the 10K could be used as a short term loan amount for students who need a bit of cash to get them through the week until they get payed later ? I know there may be laws ect regarding this but its an idea.

So basically you want the SU to set up a bank which can loan at max €10,000 at any one time? What good is that when there are over 10,000 students in DCU? How does this benefit everybody in DCU when there are people who won't need to avail of this service?

These are just a few of the many ideas which are miles better then a fancy expensive patio which does not benefit all students btw.

No those ideas are not better than a labyrinth, we are not discussing a fancy expensive patio.

How does the labyrinth not benefit all students?

thecornflake

Kavrocks wrote: »

RAG week is about raising money for charity not about partying, its also passed so unless you have a time machine I don't know how this will happen. Do you not think DCU's SU caters for those who like to party more than anybody else in the college?
Adding more into RAG week in the form of parties will benefit only those who like to party in DCU and not the entire campus.


So basically you want the SU to set up a bank which can loan at max €10,000 at any one time? What good is that when there are over 10,000 students in DCU? How does this benefit everybody in DCU when there are people who won't need to avail of this service?


No those ideas are not better than a labyrinth, we are not discussing a fancy expensive patio.

How does the labyrinth not benefit all students?

RAG week was just an example, I mean in general the campus is very boring, never much going on and people are always complaining about the lack of atmosphere (I'm not much of a mad social person like i said but I'd still appreciate a bit more of an atmosphere around the otherwise boring campus). This would benefit everyone and also attract a lot of people to the college ( the main reason loads of people I know didn't go to DCU is because they didn't like the atmosphere or "vibe" from the campus)

No, I do not want the SU to loan at most 10,000 euro. There would most obviously be a max limit, needs tested ect. I only say this as there are a lot of students who are struggling atm who usually find themselves short of cash before pay day. Again its just a suggestion , not an actual proposal.

Yes, it is a fancy patio which is expensive.

It does not benefit all student because not all students will use it, ergo it will not benefit all students. Not everyone wants to walk in a circle to find inner peace or God. (I have no problem with people who wish to do these things, I mean no offence)

Stargazer7

Kavrocks wrote: »

RAG week is about raising money for charity not about partying, its also passed so unless you have a time machine I don't know how this will happen. Do you not think DCU's SU caters for those who like to party more than anybody else in the college?
Adding more into RAG week in the form of parties will benefit only those who like to party in DCU and not the entire campus.


So basically you want the SU to set up a bank which can loan at max €10,000 at any one time? What good is that when there are over 10,000 students in DCU? How does this benefit everybody in DCU when there are people who won't need to avail of this service?


No those ideas are not better than a labyrinth, we are not discussing a fancy expensive patio.

How does the labyrinth not benefit all students?

The point is this kind of spending of SU money reflects a lot of political and state funding in this country i.e. not exploring the cheapest possibilities for the labyrinth and dismissing any alternatives rather than having a real discussion on the issue. There is also that arrogance of "sure it's only a tiny % of the money the SU has available to them" - as if that makes squandering it without much thought a better idea.

I can think of numerous ways the money can be spent better and I am sure the whole student and staff body of DCU could come up with many more. Examples include putting the money into expanding the Counselling and Personal Development Services, the Health Services, running an awareness campaign in honour of Paul Bunbury, funding more stress reduction and exam preparation workshops etc. etc. The list is endless.

Regardless of my opinion, it is very obvious that this plan was not publicised enough. That may be the fault of the class reps but then the SU also has a responsibility to inform people of their activities so that people are in no doubt of where such money is being spent. Either way it is good that this will go to referendum as it is a sizable chunk of money that should be put to good use.

Now all we have to do is hope that the SU figure out how to run the referendum so it does not have to be declared invalid like previous instances.

phantom_lord

Kavrocks wrote: »

How will all students not benefit from this proposal? What alternatives would you spend the €10,000 on that will benefit EVERY student?

Seriously?

smiling_patty

Kavrocks wrote: »

smiling_patty wrote: »

The cheapest quote for the labyrinth is actually 64000 € and its so expensive because only one company was asked to provide a quote. So as far as i know the labyrinth committe only asked one company for a quote so there might be other builders who could do it for less but these options have not been "explored". And the voting was influenced by a girl giving a "nice talk" saying how great it was traveling to scotland and walking the labyrinth while doing several hair flips and naive giggles... I will sign the petition because the reps in the class rep council have been lied to. Its a waste of money and this money could be used on better things that all students could benefit from!

Whilst class reps may have been lied to (the lie has not featured once in this thread and was addressed in CRC already) you have just lied to everybody else.

The girl who gave the talk was not in Scotland and she said so herself.

Class reps were told the labyrinth never went out to tender, they were told details about the one company who was asked for a quote and why it was just that company which was asked.

Class reps were emailed a breakdown of the costs to build the labyrinth also including the €64,000 final cost you speak of above.

If you disagree with the way the vote went that's fine but don't try and garner support for your side with petty lies and misinformation.

The voting was influenced by more than just the girl you speak of and was postponed until the next meeting after her talk because class reps wanted to go back to their class and discuss it with them before voting.

How will all students not benefit from this proposal? What alternatives would you spend the €10,000 on that will benefit EVERY student?

Eh you should have listened better she said she went to Scotland and walked the labyrinth. I'm not lying at all. The cheapest quote was 64.000€ and I haven't seen any other quotes so this is what I'm going by. And if you mean that exclusive contract with the company well that doesn't exist so any company can be asked for a quote. I don't have to garner support cause there are already lots of smart people out there opposing the labyrinth. I am the one supporting them and above are the reasons why. And in relation to the 10.000€ the street is in an awful state. Invest some money into new sofas and paint for example. And yes the voting was also influenced by the SU president who should have been neutral in this matter.

Raoul

phantom_lord wrote: »

Seriously?

How will it benefit every student?

Kavrocks

thecornflake wrote: »

I mean in general the campus is very boring, never much going on and people are always complaining about the lack of atmosphere (I'm not much of a mad social person like i said but I'd still appreciate a bit more of an atmosphere around the otherwise boring campus). This would benefit everyone and also attract a lot of people to the college ( the main reason loads of people I know didn't go to DCU is because they didn't like the atmosphere or "vibe" from the campus)

If you want to get involved in something you will, there are tons of clubs and societies who have a huge range of events going on. DCU caters more for those who like to socialise and party than any others, what DCU doesn't do well enough is educate students on mental health issues and awareness.

smiling_patty wrote:

Eh you should have listened better she said she went to Scotland and walked the labyrinth. I'm not lying at all. The cheapest quote was 64.000€ and I haven't seen any other quotes so this is what I'm going by. And if you mean that exclusive contract with the company well that doesn't exist so any company can be asked for a quote. I don't have to garner support cause there are already lots of smart people out there opposing the labyrinth. I am the one supporting them and above are the reasons why. And in relation to the 10.000€ the street is in an awful state. Invest some money into new sofas and paint for example. And yes the voting was also influenced by the SU president who should have been neutral in this matter.

I did listen you clearly did not. She specifically stated she did not go to Scotland. She has walked other labyrinth's but she did not go to Scotland.

If you aren't lying then you are deluded.

The cheapest quote class reps have seen is €64,000 too and yet they still voted it through.

If you don't need to garner support than why do you need to lie and distort the truth so much?