Temp ban on general traffic threads

biko

Sorry to impose this but lately many traffic threads has led down a bad road and been locked, some users infracted/banned/etc.

I don't want to stiffle general discussion but the banter isn't good any more, the same posters argue the same things, snide remarks, insults, no-one budges and no-one is 100% right nor wrong.
It's bringing the forum down and I think we'll chill on the traffic discussion for a while as I don't want to ban some users and not others when it's a little bit everyone's fault.

So we'll try a new approach - a hold on general traffic threads until 1st of June.

As I see it, and this is by no means a final list, just some examples:
Informational or question threads are still fine, try to keep signal to noise ratio up.
Roadworks commencing/finishing, fine.
Where to park, fine.
How to get to this or that place, fine.
There has been an accident on some road, fine.

Open discussion, not fine.
Roundabouts vs lights, not fine.
Motorists vs cyclists, not fine.
Some politician or department has said or done something in relation to Galway city or county infrastructure, not fine.
How to solve Galway's massive traffic issues, not fine.

For the above discussions there are other forums you can use. For instance.

I'll leave this open for now for feedback or suggestions people may have.
As always, feel free to PM me or po0k if you have questions or want to say something in private.

snubbleste

If we cannot converse about galway transport & ancillary issues, what else is there to gripe about?

celty

Agree with snubbleste.

Seems a bit OTT to me Biko. I have noticed one or two threads getting personal and stupidly so in the case of Renmore, but is there really a need for such censorship when it's only relating to one or two threads?

There have been good lively debates on here too, apart from all the pointless slagging.

fissureseal

Agree with 2 previous posters , totally ott -and why the date of 1st of June when discussion is allowed ?!!! Are you hoping the Galway traffic/ school situations will be solved by then ??!! Thought the point of boards.ie was to discuss issues , I agree abusive posts can't be tolerated and certain topics arent appropriate for discussion but schools surely can't be that controversial , I actually found the discussion on doughiska school v informative and fair , will have to go back to other media sources for info in future which is a shame

Hyperbullet

biko wrote: »

Sorry to impose this but lately many traffic threads has led down a bad road

Sorry Biko

I do agree with you though on the "not fine" list. Only leads to personal snipes and people losing the cool. Is the June 1st date there because that's when a lot of the traffic works are due for completion?

Nok1a

biko wrote: »

the same posters argue the same things, snide remarks, insults, no-one budges and no-one is 100% right nor wrong..

Its a shame that it has come to this.

We all know who they are(1 in particular who would argue a hole in a pot), so why not ban them from the travel threads instead. As far as I can see travel threads are usually very useful to the people of Galway until these posters arrive and regurgitate their usual holier than thou rubish. In fact its the same crap from them all across boards, its not just the galway traffic threads that are being ruined

jkforde

Instead of it coming this why don't people use the Ignore List function and make sure the regular messers aren't quoted in any replies, a form of group self-censorship if you like.

Zzippy

No offence Biko, I think you're a good mod, but this is totally unnecessary IMO. So because of one or two muppets we can't have a discussion about issues affecting local residents, that may have something to do with traffic?

The Doughiska schools thread was going along just fine, no muppets, no insults, then just closed... ridiculous. I'm sorry, but it is. Maybe the forum mods need a bit more help if they can't deal with the muppets, but a blanket ban on threads relating to traffic, in a traffic-choked city, is either lazy modding or giving in to muppetry.

Sponge Bob

Bit unfair zzipy. Mods are entitled to be fed up of intractable issues.eg Traffic and Occupy in this forum.

I'd maybe ask for the Doughiska thread to be reopened if An Bord P issues a decision pre June 1st but otherwise nothing material will happen.

Malice

Nok1a wrote: »

Its a shame that it has come to this.

We all know who they are(1 in particular who would argue a hole in a pot), so why not ban them from the travel threads instead.

Agreed except I'd just ban them full stop.

jkforde wrote: »

Instead of it coming this why don't people use the Ignore List function and make sure the regular messers aren't quoted in any replies, a form of group self-censorship if you like.

That won't work because even if people put the usual suspects onto their Ignore List, there's no way of ensuring other people don't quote or respond to them.

antoobrien

jkforde wrote: »

Instead of it coming this why don't people use the Ignore List function and make sure the regular messers aren't quoted in any replies, a form of group self-censorship if you like.

The problem with the ignore functionality is that it allows the people that you are ignoring to spew forth rubbish unchallenged, then you'll come back and wonder why the thread's been locked.

Use the post report functions instead, it will bring it to the attention of the mods that a certain user or group of users are killing/derailing threads and allow the appropriate action to be taken.

More often than not the appropriate action is telling everyone to cop the f*ck on and act like the grown ups that most of us claim to be.

Zzippy

Malice wrote: »

Agreed except I'd just ban them full stop.

This.

biko

Just to be clear, it's not writ in stone so anything can come of this discussion.
I'll leave the floor open for a while and get input from everyone.

Also, thanks to the people that have sent suggestions in PMs.

jkforde

antoobrien wrote: »

The problem with the ignore functionality is that it allows the people that you are ignoring to spew forth rubbish unchallenged...

True, but all any troll or messer is looking for is a challenge to feed their kicks. Don't feed them, Ignore them, eventually they'll get hungry and troll some other forum. And my 2 cents, I thought the Doughiska thread was lively and informative.. the mods may have their antennas twitching on the roads thing at the moment but isn't it up to us users to monitor the threads, it should only be the nuclear option to resort to thread closure. IMHO

Cedrus

I think a thumbs down button would be a useful way of commenting quietly on mildly offensive, trolling or irrelevant posts without getting too involved. A sort of a users yellow card to the red card of report post.
Apologies if this is something that used to exist but had to be removed.

galwaycyclist

Nok1a wrote: »

Its a shame that it has come to this.

We all know who they are(1 in particular who would argue a hole in a pot), so why not ban them from the travel threads instead. As far as I can see travel threads are usually very useful to the people of Galway until these posters arrive and regurgitate their usual holier than thou rubish. In fact its the same crap from them all across boards, its not just the galway traffic threads that are being ruined

I heartily agree with this. It appears to be impossible to have any discussion on traffic or traffic management without some zealot or another jumping on the thread usually for the purpose of pushing one particular road scheme.

what_traffic

biko wrote: »

So we'll try a new approach - a hold on general traffic threads until 1st of June.

You might need to extend it to Jan 2013 - we will have rolling works until then bar a break during the summer months. The GTU timeline of when all the N6 Roundabouts will be converted to traffic lights is Dec 2012.

galwaycyclist

Nok1a wrote: »

We all know who they are(1 in particular who would argue a hole in a pot), so why not ban them from the travel threads instead. As far as I can see travel threads are usually very useful to the people of Galway until these posters arrive and regurgitate their usual holier than thou rubish. In fact its the same crap from them all across boards, its not just the galway traffic threads that are being ruined

Also it appears to me - and I am open to correction - that there is pattern of people from outside the city - and one individual in particular - jumping onto threads to attack people from the city in our discussions. It appears that people who live the city are not "allowed" to debate or discuss how we can improve our city without certain people from the county jumping on to push their pet theories.

This suggests that one solution is to ban non-city contributors to threads involving traffic unless they agree to abide by agreed ground rules.

antoobrien

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Also it appears to me - and I am open to correction - that there is pattern of people from outside the city - and one individual in particular - jumping onto threads to attack people from the city in our discussions. It appears that people who live the city are not "allowed" to debate or discuss how we can improve our city without certain people from the county jumping on to push their pet theories.

So your proposal is that at least the following people can't post on traffic matters:

• do not live in the city but work there
• people who have worked in the city but have had to leave for various reasons
• people who live at the boundaries of the city but use it's facilities (bus, roads etc) - e.g. anybody on the east side of the parkmore road (the city boundary is the road itself) such as ballybrit cottages or the parkmore east estate
• people who are in education in galway (e.g. uni/gmit) but not resident within the city boundaries
• people who do not live in the city but shop there

Etc

galwaycyclist

antoobrien wrote: »

So your proposal is that at least the following people can't post on traffic matters:

• do not live in the city but work there
• people who have worked in the city but have had to leave for various reasons
• people who live at the boundaries of the city but use it's facilities (bus, roads etc) - e.g. anybody on the east side of the parkmore road (the city boundary is the road itself) such as ballybrit cottages or the parkmore east estate
• people who are in education in galway (e.g. uni/gmit) but not resident within the city boundaries
• people who do not live in the city but shop there

Etc

Yes. If you don't want to play nice then why should we be expected to play with you? Its our city you are the guests not the owners. Same rules should apply in this forum.

Sponge Bob

Siggggggggghhhh. IBTL from moi!

Looking at todays Galwaynews, Exhibit a and Exhibit b alone.....I really must congratulate Biko on his exquisite timing.

antoobrien

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Yes. If you don't want to play nice then why should we be expected to play with you? Its our city you are the guests not the owners. Same rules should apply in this forum.

I can see this one going downhill quickly.

At the risk of major derailment, I have to ask is it your position that the people I listed earlier and any others that you have a gripe with shouldn't have a voice or be able to point out something that they see as being totally unreasonable?

If it's possible could nobody else answer or comment on this particular post until after galwaycyclist replies and I get to respond.

galwaycyclist

antoobrien wrote: »

At the risk of major derailment, I have to ask is it your position that the people I listed earlier and any others that you have a gripe with shouldn't have a voice or be able to point out something that they see as being totally unreasonable?

No it would be my fervent desire that we would engage in reasoned discussion. However if people such as yourself are not minded to conduct yourselves in a reasonable fashion then I fail to see why all discussion should have to cease.

What I am trying to find is a formula that allows those of us who wish to proceed in a constructive fashion to do so. It doesn't have to be an elegant formula.

antoobrien

galwaycyclist wrote: »

No it would be my fervent desire that we would engage in reasoned discussion. However if people such as yourself are not minded to conduct yourselves in a reasonable fashion then I fail to see why all discussion should have to cease.

Et tu, Brute?

Biko - I withdraw my suggestion sent via pm.

IMO the ban on discussing traffic should be made permanent because attitudes like the ones shown in the answer the galwaycyclist just gave. If people who use the facilities cannot comment on them unless their opinions are closely aligned to certain vested interests we can never have constructive debate on the matter.

dilallio

It's a pity that a thread created as a result of bickering on other threads is in danger of being de-railed for the same reason.

How about a new subforum like a 'Traffic Deathmatch" forum where repeat offenders can be 'imprisoned' to slag each other indefinately until they realise the futility of their actions.

Mrs OBumble

galwaycyclist wrote: »

I heartily agree with this. It appears to be impossible to have any discussion on traffic or traffic management without some zealot or another jumping on the thread usually for the purpose of pushing one particular road scheme.

Except that you both you and I are probably on some people's "zealots to be ignored" list. I have a similar list in my head, it's got different people again. Getting agreement on the list would be difficult, and I totally DISagree with the suggestion that the forum should be for city-dwellers only. [sorry, in a blonde moment, I left the dis out of my original post :-( ]

To me, this move does seem OTT (and I deliberately waited overnight before responding). And I don't know that the cooling off period will make a difference.

But I don't know what cr*p Biko has had to put up with in PMs, infractions etc. And I don't know what messages he's had from other people about how they've left the entire forum 'cos of certain threads (personally I stopped reading the Occupy thread a long time ago, except where it's referred to from elsewhere - but some folks don't quite get the "just ignore it" approach).

Maybe the cat-mods need to get him some more help.

Maybe we all have to accept more in-public tellings off, so as to learn what's acceptable?

irishdude11

Big deal, people engage in heated discussion on an internet discussion forum. Isnt that what boards are there for? Is it really killing anybody, no-one is forcing anyone to read anything. The one thing I have never liked about boards.ie is when a discussion gets heated, and its usually because people have strong opinions on the subject, then the mods come in and lock the thread, when in fact that is when the conversation is at its most interesting. boards has a bad rep for this and it is deserved as we are just witnessing another great example of it at work here - banning all discussion of traffic issues in the galway forum.

An ongoing issue that is of major concern for tons of people in Galway, hence why they want to discuss it. Yet it gets locked. This reminds of the infamous banning of discussion on the property market on the askaboutmoney site. A ludicrous thing to do. Let people discuss what they want to discuss for god sake, if you cant be arsed to mod it and deal with a few trolls step down and let someone else mod the forum.

the same posters argue the same things, snide remarks, insults, no-one budges and no-one is 100% right nor wrong.

So what, that is the way discussion and argument works. People in general have their own opinions and dont budge from them and will repeatedly discuss and argue the same topics all their life. Its human nature.

It's bringing the forum down and I think we'll chill on the traffic discussion for a while

Your job as mod is to moderate discussion not to censor it. People want to talk about traffic in galway and who can blame them with the seemingly neverending issues with traffic in this city. If you are not interested in modding it you should step down, banning discussion is the lazy way out.

Open discussion, not fine.
Roundabouts vs lights, not fine.
Motorists vs cyclists, not fine.
Some politician or department has said or done something in relation to Galway city or county infrastructure, not fine.
How to solve Galway's massive traffic issues, not fine.

Ridiculous censorship, dictating to people here what you will allow discussion on, not allowing them to discuss what they want. Always thought you were a good mod biko, surprised to see you coming up with this stuff.

antoobrien

JustMary wrote: »

I totally agree with the suggestion that the forum should be for city-dwellers only.

When the smarter travel plan also covers the villages of Bearna, Claregalway & Oranmore the city boundary isn't good enough if we're discussing transport.

Plus the decision by Galway City Council to change the Lynch RAB to a lights controlled junction also has a direct effect on the acces to dwellings on the Monivea road (Briarhill, Braonloughan, Coolough & Ballintemple) - which are not included in the city boundary. So these people shouldn't have a voice?

It's also a bit harsh to discount the residents of Hazelwood (north of the RAB on the Parkmore Rd) and the Monivea Rd as far as Ballintemple because they're 200 yards on the wrong side of an an arbitrary line (which as far as I can see runs straight through the middle of several farmer's fields) - as the city forum will be far more relevant to these people than the county.

Btw I was wrong in my earlier post, Ballybrit Cottages are within the city boundary but the fields behind them are not (I checked it on the map viewer).

Mrs OBumble

antoobrien wrote: »

When the smarter travel plan also covers the villages of Bearna, Claregalway & Oranmore the city boundary isn't good enough if we're discussing transport.

...

Agree with you on all points. Not to mention the views of workers, students, etc.

Feeling kinda embarrassed: my mind thought "disagree" but my fingers forgot the "dis". Have amended the original now.

hondasam

Nok1a wrote: »

Its a shame that it has come to this.

We all know who they are(1 in particular who would argue a hole in a pot), so why not ban them from the travel threads instead. As far as I can see travel threads are usually very useful to the people of Galway until these posters arrive and regurgitate their usual holier than thou rubish. In fact its the same crap from them all across boards, its not just the galway traffic threads that are being ruined

This was your reply to me a few day ago, not very nice really and definitely not friendly.

Are you even from galway? Have you managed to accumulate 23k posts in less than 2yrs by randomly spamming threads with rubbish that you know little about?

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Also it appears to me - and I am open to correction - that there is pattern of people from outside the city - and one individual in particular - jumping onto threads to attack people from the city in our discussions. It appears that people who live the city are not "allowed" to debate or discuss how we can improve our city without certain people from the county jumping on to push their pet theories.

This suggests that one solution is to ban non-city contributors to threads involving traffic unless they agree to abide by agreed ground rules.

Plenty of people travel into the city to work so traffic affects them as well. I would think it's only people from Galway city/county that posts here.
The city does not belong to just people living in it, it's a bit silly to ban people from a thread on the ground that they do not live in the city.

KittyeeTrix

galwaycyclist wrote: »

This suggests that one solution is to ban non-city contributors to threads involving traffic unless they agree to abide by agreed ground rules.

I would very much like to know what these ground rules would be galwaycyclist ??

Discodog

If you ban the discussion of certain topics surely you open a can of worms & open yourself up to accusations of bias. It isn't about what topic people discuss but they way that they conduct themselves. Anyone who cannot manage basic politeness shouldn't be here. I appreciate that it can mean extra work but only in the short term as it's easy to ban the offenders.

Is there not a risk that people could deliberately disrupt threads to ensure that those topics are no longer discussed ?

Nok1a

hondasam wrote: »

This was your reply to me a few day ago, not very nice really and definitely not friendly.

.

In a week which saw some of the worst traffic in Galway you made a flipant post that traffic in galway was just like other cities, what reply did you expect?

galwaycyclist

Discodog wrote: »

Is there not a risk that people could deliberately disrupt threads to ensure that those topics are no longer discussed ?

In my view that is what is already going on. What we need to do is to find a means of getting around the behaviour of those involved.

hondasam

Nok1a wrote: »

In a week which saw some of the worst traffic in Galway you made a flipant post that traffic in galway was just like other cities, what reply did you expect?

Attack the post not the poster rule.

I do not have to say where I'm from, my post count is irrelevant and accusing me of spamming, talking rubbish about something I know little about, all this considering you don't know the first thing about me.

snubbleste

Traffiic is the most talked about issue around town.
The topic should'nt be muzzled nor moved to another forum. I learn a bit from the traffic-related threads on here, different viewpoints from a local perspective that I may not normally hear.
We just need a group hug

gammygils

I agree.This is totally unfair. Some of us ''commuters'' rely on the info here for journey purposes.

galwaycyclist

hondasam wrote: »

Attack the post not the poster rule.

I do not have to say where I'm from, my post count is irrelevant and accusing me of spamming, talking rubbish about something I know little about, all this considering you don't know the first thing about me.

I agree however this style of argument - false allegations, ad hominem attacks, straw man arguments appears to be an established part of the culture of this forum under the current moderators. Furthermore it is such a consistent pattern that it is hard to shake the conclusion that those involved understand themselves to have the active protection of the moderators.

I am one of the people who tries to avoid the Galway city forum because of this. But I live in this city why I should I have to?

And no you should not have to say where you are from. However with regret based on albeit limited experience the behaviour in this forum does appear to have a geographical basis. It appears that people from the county feel entitled to come in here and attack people who live in the city for wanting, or even just engaging in, normal European city things - the ability to walk to school, cycle to work, get the bus to the shops, to not have rat running cars come past their houses.

Nok1a

hondasam wrote: »

Attack the post not the poster rule.

I do not have to say where I'm from, my post count is irrelevant and accusing me of spamming, talking rubbish about something I know little about, all this considering you don't know the first thing about me.

The last point is kind of ironic, 23k posts and you thing people can't form an opinion of you? I saw your post(orshould i say 50) in after hours about the guy who defended himself, you came across as a complete and utter troll then in the galway traffic thread your post indicated that you weere just posting for the sake of it, just to build up your post count saying that traffic was no different to any other city. Try sitting in traffic for 2 hrs to get 3 miles and seeing your rubbish post:rolleyes:

emptybladder

Yet another reason we should be allowed discuss traffic here:

http://www.galwaynews.ie/24468-expo-organiser-voices-concern-over-galway-traffic

galwaycyclist

JustMary wrote: »

I totally DISagree with the suggestion that the forum should be for city-dwellers only. [sorry, in a blonde moment, I left the dis out of my original post :-( ]

Nobody has suggested that the forum should be for the city dwellers only. However it has appears to have become a place where certain county dwellers are allowed to dictate what we can or cannot discuss. To my mind this is wholly perverse and requires a solution. We have a situation here where we are being demonstrably and repeatedly blocked from discussing our city.

This is not just a boards issue but goes to the heart of why we are now in this mess. For the last 15 years this city has been administered by senior officials who, for the most part, do not live in the city. In my view these officials have acted as if they had no personal stake in the well being of our city or its inhabitants. Instead they have acted as if the city is to be managed for the primary purpose of facilitating car based commuters like themselves, who just work here.

This city is in arguably in such a mess because it has been managed by people who live in the county for the percieved benefit of people who just see it primarily as a place to drive through.

When is it going to stop? How is it ever going to stop if we allow people with the same agenda to dictate the content of all traffic discussions on this forum?

Discodog

galwaycyclist wrote: »

We have a situation here where we are being demonstrably and repeatedly blocked from discussing our city.

When is it going to stop? How is it ever going to stop if we allow people with the same agenda to dictate the content of all traffic discussions on this forum?

With respect your posts are fuelling any call by the Moderators for a ban. The thread is about the whether these issues can be discussed here whereas you seem to be using it as yet another traffic thread.

The content of this & most other forums is dictated by the contributors & everyone has a right to post.

desaparecidos

Hilariously stupid idea Biko.

Discodog

desaparecidos wrote: »

Hilariously stupid idea Biko.

Or another hilariously stupid post that just makes topic bans more likely :rolleyes:

To his credit Biko has left this thread open to invite constructive comment & discussion. Some Mods would of made the decision & locked the thread.

Doc Ruby

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Instead they have acted as if the city is to be managed for the primary purpose of facilitating car based commuters like themselves, who just work here.

Emm...

Would you not agree given commute times that there might be a few minor flaws in your theory.

There seem to be a few who aspire to some mythical European ideal where we all cycle around in the sunshine with daisies braided through our hair, which this being Galway probably has some merit, but of course this is going to run headlong into hard reality for many people.

Hard reality meets vocal idealism, sparks will fly as always. Couple that with the single most incompetent local authority on earth, vested interests that are willing to try and throttle an entire city because they want to keep their little village filled with their relations and not blow-ins from the big smoke when a bypass brings development, and you have a fine pot to stir.

galwaycyclist

Sigh. Here we go again

galwaycyclist wrote: »

I agree however this style of argument - false allegations, ad hominem attacks, straw man arguments appears to be an established part of the culture of this forum under the current moderators. Furthermore it is such a consistent pattern that it is hard to shake the conclusion that those involved understand themselves to have the active protection of the moderators.

And then, as if on cue, we get more of this stuff

Doc Ruby wrote: »

There seem to be a few who aspire to some mythical European ideal where we all cycle around in the sunshine with daisies braided through our hair, which this being Galway probably has some merit, but of course this is going to run headlong into hard reality for many people.

Has anybody, anywhere in this forum, ever suggested that solving Galway's traffic will require everyone to cycle everywhere?

Doc Ruby

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Has anybody, anywhere in this forum, ever suggested that solving Galway's traffic will require everyone to cycle everywhere?

Yeah there was one fella in one of the closed threads. May have been a throwaway comment but thats what I took from it.

Anyways thats not the point, threads about traffic are getting too punchy so some people should maybe settle down a bit and try to see the other side of the story.

For we should all stand shoulder to shoulder united in anger at the local authority.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhnPVP23rzo

ronnie3585

I'm aware of the irony of appearing on TV in order to decry it.

confuseddotcom

I don't be in other Regional Threads but are they all jammed with Threads on Traffic too or is Galway just individual/unique/special etc?

Robbo

I do love a traffic thread, they tend to act as a complete Bat Symbol for both pro- and anti- car types and there's an element of organised thread wrecking in it. We can very easily jump from "There's a pothole being fixed on Road X and there's a lane closed to" to a theoretical discussion of transport policy with all kinds of fanciful ideals being advanced.

I remember Politics had a similar problem a year or two ago whenever anything vaguely negative of SF was posted, there was a group who had a system to flood the thread and invariably divert it in a way that had it locked. They knew their audience and would just keep pushing the hot buttons. I'm not sure how it was dealt with or by which mod, but it seems to have been cured.

I suppose what I'm suggesting is some heads on sticks.

antoobrien

Okay enough time has passed and we've all calmed down a bit, so here are a list of some of the threads that discuss current/future road projects in Galway city & county.

General
General Roads discussion forum
Roads projects thread finder - very useful as it uses tags associated with pages to generate lists of therads.

City Roads
Kirwan/Ballinfoyle Roundabout discussion
Headford Rd/Bodkin delay thread
SQR
Font & Morris RAB removal

Motorway threads
M4/M6 completed sections
M17/M18 & Tuam Bypass project
N17 Tuam-Claremorris


Galway Bypass
For the love of god please read these threads before commenting, you'll probably find that your argument has been at least partially discussed.
GCOB Project thread - for news not discussion
Is the Galway Bypass Necessary? - for the discussion of the reasons for and against the proposed road