Your Knowledge of the Rules of Golf

Kevinmarkham

Not sure if this was done before, but following the Peter Whiteford DQ at the Avantha Masters over the weekend, how do people rate their knowledge of the rules?

Personally, I'm not that good, and I've heard Professionals proclaim that their knowledge could do with improvement.

k.p.h

I voted I have a good enough understanding to get me around the course, just because every time I have been unsure of a rule I looked it up as soon as I got home and over a period of time I have become more familiar with the most common ones. I also carry a copy of the rules in my bag.!

I am especially familiar with the rules regarding hitting the ball OB,playing a provisional and unplayable lies..!

That's brings me back to the point, I actually think there should be a different set of rules for amateurs than professionals. I really think a different set would be appropriate or even just a fail safe rules for people unsure of the rules in certain circumstances, e.g replay shot with 2 shot penalty if unsure of course of action.

PhilipMarlowe

Somewhere between option 1 and 2 for me. Often get asked for guidance on a ruling but there's always ones I'd stumble over too.
As k.p.h. said, the best way to learn is by practice so something happens on the course and you look up what you should have done and you learn for ever more

golfwallah

The GUI held a very successful session on the rules of golf in our club a number of years ago (sent out a rep from the Leinster Branch).

The session took the form of about 45 minutes on the rules, definitions, etc., followed by 15 minutes for questions and answers and then a team quiz (and small prizes) on the rules.

My memory of result from quiz (10 multi choice and 10 open questions) was that best score was 11 & ½ out of 20 (team of 3 men & 1 woman), whereas, a few teams of people, who considered themselves to be well up, scored less than 10 out of 20.

Enjoyable and fun evening – also showed that people often over-estimate their knowledge of the rules!

Osgoodisgood

golfwallah wrote: »

Enjoyable and fun evening – also showed that people often over-estimate their knowledge of the rules!

My previous club ran a similar event and the results were, if anything, worse.
In our case it showed that the knowledge of the less commonly applied rules was nowhere near what was assumed. It also showed how boneheaded and counterintuitive some of the rules actually are!

For Paws

Everyone should try the Quiz on the R & A site.
Guarantee you'll be surprised by the results.

http://www.randa.org/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-Quiz.aspx

BoardsMember

My gut feeling is that most people think their knowledge is better than it is.

I think the wording in the poll is not great: "I know the basics but have to ask for advice from time to time" and "I have a good enough understanding to get me around the course" are pretty close, and to me could be the same, so I'm not sure you're going to get a very good understanding based on this.

GreeBo

^
Agreed. I think something like:
- I rarely encounter a rule/situation I dont know
- I find a rule/situation I dont know once every 10 rounds
- I find a rule/situation I dont know once every 5 rounds
- I find a rule/situation I dont know nearly every round
- I dont know any of the rules


Its tough to rate unless you are asking specific questions.
Maybe even asking specific questions and seeing if people know the answer.
Surveymonkey.com ftw!

Kevinmarkham

Ah ffs lads, how difficult is to interpret the two options!

"I know the basics but have to ask for advice from time to time"
The golfer knows the essentials - if a ball moves at address it's a penalty, if the ball is unplayable he knows he has three options but may not know exactly what they are and would ask, if a ball goes into water hazard he gets a drop but may not know which way to go.

"I have a good enough understanding to get me around the course"
Would know the above answers and would be comfortable with the obvious situations that arise (knocking leaves off branches, removing loose impediments in bunkers), but might not know what to do if a beetle flies into his ball on the green and then drops dead on the exact line of the putt.

I'm not looking for rocket scientists here!

golfnut1

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

Ah ffs lads, how difficult is to interpret the two options!

"I know the basics but have to ask for advice from time to time"
The golfer knows the essentials - if a ball moves at address it's a penalty, if the ball is unplayable he knows he has three options but may not know exactly what they are and would ask, if a ball goes into water hazard he gets a drop but may not know which way to go.

"I have a good enough understanding to get me around the course"
Would know the above answers and would be comfortable with the obvious situations that arise (knocking leaves off branches, removing loose impediments in bunkers), but might not know what to do if a beetle flies into his ball on the green and then drops dead on the exact line of the putt.

I'm not looking for rocket scientists here!

How do you know you know them or not?
You might think you know the rules but you could be totally wrong. You might be interpreting the rules incorrectly.

Kevinmarkham

golfnut1 wrote: »

How do you know you know them or not?
You might think you know the rules but you could be totally wrong. You might be interpreting the rules incorrectly.

Which is exactly the point that BoardsMember makes. Most golfers reckon they know the rules to some degree, but I've played in matches where there are heated discussions about what the rule is and it turns out both sides were wrong. Once you get it in your head you know the rule, it's difficult to dislodge it if you don't go home and look it up (as KPH pointed out).

irish bloke

I answered:

"Not good. I know the basics but have to ask for advice from time to time"

My golf rules knowledge is average at best.

I have only really looked at golf seriously this year and the rules of the game have not being high on my list of priorities.

This may be foolish of me and have suffered in the past because of this, but find the subject of golf rules as about as enjoyable as pulling splinters from my a.rse.

I do believe though its something I need to address, if I am to take the game more serious..

golfnut1

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

golfnut1 wrote: »

How do you know you know them or not?
You might think you know the rules but you could be totally wrong. You might be interpreting the rules incorrectly.

Which is exactly the point that BoardsMember makes. Most golfers reckon they know the rules to some degree, but I've played in matches where there are heated discussions about what the rule is and it turns out both sides were wrong. Once you get it in your head you know the rule, it's difficult to dislodge it if you don't go home and look it up (as KPH pointed out).

Agree. Doesn't this make the poll pretty useless then?

Kevinmarkham

golfnut1 wrote: »

Agree. Doesn't this make the poll pretty useless then?

^
I'll direct you to the post above.
If it gets people thinking about the rules and the fact that they need to know more, then the poll might be 'pretty useless' but it serves as a reminder that we all need to improve our knowledge.

golfnut1

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

^
I'll direct you to the post above.
If it gets people thinking about the rules and the fact that they need to know more, then the poll might be 'pretty useless' but it serves as a reminder that we all need to improve our knowledge.

Well for the almost 10% that think they know the rules inside out. These are the targets here. The 90% that at least realize how little they do know (I include myself in this) know they could improve in this area. Its the other 10% id be worried about and i don't think a poll will change their minds.

curly from cork

For Paws wrote: »

Everyone should try the Quiz on the R & A site.
Guarantee you'll be surprised by the results.

http://www.randa.org/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-Quiz.aspx[/QUOTE]

Thanks Paws for that reminder its a great site . I answered the quiz on the sidebar . quiz 2012. It closes Feb 26th . 18 questions. Answers available after the closing date. I scored 12 / 18 and answered Kevins poll as a reasonalbe enough knowledge to get me around .

GetInTheHole!

I know that I have a decent undertstanding that covers most common queries / scenarios. I'm by no means an encyclopedia however.

I do however carry a rules handbook in the bag as well though.

slave1

Rules handbook is free and small so no excuses for anyone for not having to hand whilst on a round, quite well laid out also so everyone should be able to find the answer to typical scenarios quite quickly.
"I have a good enough understanding to get me around the course" and when in doubt don't look for relief and slow things up, play her as she lies, it's only a bloody game.

Myksyk

Did the r and a quiz 2012 and scored 15/18. I put a fair bit of time into knowing the rules but would never say I know them inside out.

Whyner

Myksyk wrote: »

Did the r and a quiz 2012 and scored 15/18. I put a fair bit of time into knowing the rules but would never say I know them inside out.

Same same but different 14/18

There's a difference between knowing them on the net and overruling a low handicapper in a singles matchplay event.

The R&A app is very handy...

charlieIRL

i like to think i have a good understanding of the rules but i too, also carry a rulebook in my bag just in case. I might come across a situation in a round where i need clarification on a rule every once in a while and its good to have.

Gophur

I had a funny one, a couple of years back. I was on one fairway when a player (on an adjacent fairway)'s drive landed close to me. A dog came over, picked up the golf ball and ran back to his owner with it. I stuck a tee-peg where the ball had landed, went over to the dog's owner, retrieved the ball and replaced it at the tee-peg. Every one of the man's group insisted the ball should be played from where the dog had dropped it. I asked them, if the dog had dropped it in the hole would it have been a legitimate "eagle"? They couldn't answer.

Finally, he played from where the ball had landed originally, yet still needed a glance at the rule book, in the car park, after his round, before he'd put in his card.

A very basic rule, yet surprising how few knew it.

---

Jul3s

First off the 6 who said they know the rules inside out are FOS, because absolutely no one knows every single rule and everyone will from time to time have to refer to the rules book.
I did the RANDA quiz and got 14/18, but I still voted for the "rules what rules" option to highlight how little we do know compared to what we actually know.
The most common breach of the rules that I see happening is the incorrect application of the "nearest point of relief", although to be fair it's due to ignorance of the rule and more often then not the people in question are not trying to gain an advantage, when they drop further away from the hole than they are entilted to "just to be on the safe side lioke", they just can't be arsed to look it up and learn it off by heart (it's not difficult).
I think etiquette is as important if not more so than the rules especially for beginners, if they only read the section on etiquettte in the rules book they wouldn't go too far wrong, and they can pick up the rest of it as they go along, the same can be said for the rest of us who think we know the rules, we all have to brush up on them from time to time.
Also every individual club should be responsible for ensuring it's members have a good working knowledge of the rules and etiquette, although it would help if there way some clear direction given from up above (GUI).

GreeBo

Gophur wrote: »

A very basic rule, yet surprising how few knew it.

---

Remembering that neither wind nor water are outside agencies!

GreeBo

Jul3s wrote: »

First off the 6 who said they know the rules inside out are FOS, because absolutely no one knows every single rule and everyone will from time to time have to refer to the rules book.
I did the RANDA quiz and got 14/18, but I still voted for the "rules what rules" option to highlight how little we do know compared to what we actually know.

Generalise much? You cannot speak for anyone else.

Jul3s wrote: »

Also every individual club should be responsible for ensuring it's members have a good working knowledge of the rules and etiquette, although it would help if there way some clear direction given from up above (GUI).

GUI gives out free booklets...and has a website with quizzes and a searchable index. What else can they do?

Jul3s

GreeBo wrote: »

Generalise much? You cannot speak for anyone else.

It's an indisputable fact, not a generalisation, if you don't know why then for shame.

GUI gives out free booklets...and has a website with quizzes and a searchable index. What else can they do?

I said the onus should be on the clubs, with the help of the GUI,
One thing I think the GUI could do is to implement a compulsory test before you're allowed to play, mainly to educate people about etiquette and basic rules, afaik they have a programme like this in Sweden and you have to take 10 classes before you are allowed to play.

irish bloke

GreeBo wrote: »

GUI gives out free booklets...and has a website with quizzes and a searchable index. What else can they do?

They should send us all on 6 monthly training courses to St Andrews, with full expences paid and a free round of golf....

Gophur

Jul3s wrote: »

I said the onus should be on the clubs, with the help of the GUI, ...........

Onus to do what? Everyone knows the rules are many and everyone knows it's a self-policing sport, so the onus is most clearly on the player.

For Paws

There's no specific mention in the Rules, or in the Interpretation of the Rules regarding the correct procedure to follow if you believe another golfer is in breach of a Rule.
That's the problem with rules designed to be self-regulatory - you're depending on everyone playing to the same rules to achieve a fair result.

You'd have to be completely blind not to notice regular breachs in any competition, and even in 'friendly' rounds. I'm not saying this is ch@7ting, mostly as a result of ignorance of the rules.

So whats the procedure ?
Do you
(A) Tell the player before he plays / acts that he might be in breach of the Rules if he proceeds.
(B) Let him play & then tell him.
(C) Refuse to sign his card on the basis that you believe he has not included penalty shot(s)
(D) With or without telling the player, inform the Committee of the facts as you saw them, and let them investigate.
(E) Whatever you say, say nothing.

GreeBo

Jul3s wrote: »

It's an indisputable fact, not a generalisation, if you don't know why then for shame.

Its an indisputable fact that 6 people on here (and you dont even know which 6) are lying about their knowledge of the rules of golf?
Really? :rolleyes:

Do you do lotto numbers as well?

GreeBo

For Paws wrote: »

There's no specific mention in the Rules, or in the Interpretation of the Rules regarding the correct procedure to follow if you believe another golfer is in breach of a Rule.
That's the problem with rules designed to be self-regulatory - you're depending on everyone playing to the same rules to achieve a fair result.

You'd have to be completely blind not to notice regular breachs in any competition, and even in 'friendly' rounds. I'm not saying this is ch@7ting, mostly as a result of ignorance of the rules.

So whats the procedure ?
Do you
(A) Tell the player before he plays / acts that he might be in breach of the Rules if he proceeds.
(B) Let him play & then tell him.
(C) Refuse to sign his card on the basis that you believe he has not included penalty shot(s)
(D) With or without telling the player, inform the Committee of the facts as you saw them, and let them investigate.
(E) Whatever you say, say nothing.

A & then C if he doesnt penalise himself or cannot prove me wrong.
Unless its a match in which case possibly B & then C

golfnut1

GreeBo wrote: »

Jul3s wrote: »

It's an indisputable fact, not a generalisation, if you don't know why then for shame.

Its an indisputable fact that 6 people on here (and you dont even know which 6) are lying about their knowledge of the rules of golf?
Really? :rolleyes:

Do you do lotto numbers as well?

Probably the same lads that hit it 300!!

k.p.h

irish bloke wrote: »

They should send us all on 6 monthly training courses to St Andrews, with full expences paid and a free round of golf....

Dose anyone agree with me that they should have a rule (for amateurs) for not knowing the rules, e.g 2 shot penalty and replay the shot or a 3 shot penalty that can be applied after the round before the card is signed ...???

Not sure exactly how it could be implemented but you get the amateur rules down to a reasonable amount and not a book full it would be a great help to the game.. No ..?

golfwallah

From the rules of golf (Player’s Responsibilities Rule 6 – 1):
“The player and his caddie are responsible for knowing the Rules”.

Extracts from our club constitution (based on the GUI pro-forma):
• “It shall be the duty of every elected member to acquaint himself/herself of the Constitution, Rules and Bye-Laws of the Club and each such member shall be bound by same”.
• “The Rules of the Game of Golf for the Men's and the Ladies' Club shall be the Rules of Golf as approved by the Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St. Andrews”.

From the R & A site: “For most of us, the game of golf is self-regulating. There is seldom a referee present so we are reliant upon our own honest adherence to the Rules in order to enjoy the game.”

Myksyk

k.p.h wrote: »

.. No ..?

Correct.

irish bloke

k.p.h wrote: »

Dose anyone agree with me that they should have a rule (for amateurs) for not knowing the rules, e.g 2 shot penalty and replay the shot or a 3 shot penalty that can be applied after the round before the card is signed ...???

Not sure exactly how it could be implemented but you get the amateur rules down to a reasonable amount and not a book full it would be a great help to the game.. No ..?

You couldn't do that. There would be too much gamesmanship with that rule and you would have fella's murdering each other on the golf course....

I personally dont think its important to learn all the rules. I dont need to know them all to enjoy myself on the golf course and if I get one wrong from time to time and am penalised, then so be it.

When I get to scratch, I'll worry about them.;)

Senna

I voted for "rules, what rules", as i wouldn't be able to say i am 100% correct with nearly any of them, bar the very basics.
But i don't pay in comps and the person i play with follows the same rules as me "play it were it lies", "RELIEF, what are you a pansy?" "if in doubt, 1 shot penalty":p
But we should consult the book more often.

Jul3s

GreeBo wrote: »

Its an indisputable fact that 6 people on here (and you dont even know which 6) are lying about their knowledge of the rules of golf?
Really? :rolleyes:

Do you do lotto numbers as well?

Yes really, and no I don't know which six and frankly I don't care because it doesn't matter, they are still FOS but since you brought it up I can only assume you include your good self in this elite group perhaps.

Jul3s

Gophur wrote: »

Onus to do what? Everyone knows the rules are many and everyone knows it's a self-policing sport, so the onus is most clearly on the player.

Oh well that's ok then if everybody already knows everything.
Did you even read my original post above?.

Gophur

Jul3s wrote: »

...........
Did you even read my original post above?.

Techy, eh?

Yes I did.

You wrote "Also every individual club should be responsible for ensuring it's members have a good working knowledge of the rules and etiquette..."

How can you hold a Club responsible? If a player is playing , away, and breaches a rule, is his club deemed to be responsible and liable to penalty? Of course, not. It is a ludicrous proposal and unworkable.

It's made patently clear the onus is on the individual. It's typical of Society, today, to try to pass the buck and abdicate responsibility.

GreeBo

Jul3s wrote: »

Yes really, and no I don't know which six and frankly I don't care because it doesn't matter, they are still FOS but since you brought it up I can only assume you include your good self in this elite group perhaps.

OK in that case I think its ignore time.
How you think its logical to make specific accusations about 6 individuals when you openly admit you dont know who they are or anything about them is frankly laughable.

Oh and actually I'm not one of the 6. Not that it matters to you eh? :rolleyes:

bigtimecharlie

Don't play enough comps to really test my knowledge, friendly rounds generally leave the rule book in the car.

golfwallah

Jul3s wrote: »

I said the onus should be on the clubs, with the help of the GUI,
One thing I think the GUI could do is to implement a compulsory test before you're allowed to play, mainly to educate people about etiquette and basic rules, afaik they have a programme like this in Sweden and you have to take 10 classes before you are allowed to play.

How much support do you think you’d get for your proposal for compulsory testing before being allowed to play – at club, provincial, national GUI levels and so on?

Even if you got to the proposal stage, I can’t see how it would get the necessary support and be carried - at any level, from Club upwards.

I did a few searches on compulsory golf testing on the rules in Sweden. Couldn’t find anything, other than testing for rules officials – maybe you could be a bit more specific on your sources for this information?

Amateur Golf depends heavily on voluntary effort and, as always, suggestions outnumber people to implement them by over 100 to one.

The GUI already distributes generous allocations of the R & A booklet “Rules of Golf” to all clubs to be made available to members. Can’t speak for all clubs, but my own club gives this booklet to all new members and leaves them out in the clubhouse for collection by all.

The GUI also covers the rules on their website, including a link to the R & A site. Not only that, but they have proved willing to run Rules of Golf sessions in clubs, if requested to do so

I’m not suggesting clubs and the GUI get it right all the time and, sure, there are problems with golfers knowing the rules. But why not start by volunteering yourself to organise such a Rules of Golf Session in your own club, rather than blaming clubs and GUI, all volunteers and already doing their bit?

As has been said in earlier posts, primary responsibility for knowing the rules rests with the player – but many need help – so people, like yourself, with better knowledge shouldn’t be afraid to put their names forward.;)

golfwallah

To further debate on this issue – looked again but still haven’t found anything on compulsory golf lessons in Sweden.

After a bit more searching found the following on “Golf Licence” in Netherlands and Belgium (for pre-handicap certification, which was introduced because there are few golf courses in relation to the number of golfers):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golf_license

In Germany, as in many parts of Europe, golfers need a license. The license is called a Platzreife or Platzerlaubnis card, which also serves as an insurance policy (bear in mind that there are far fewer golf courses per head of population in Germany and Switzerland – making golf a lot more expensive than in Ireland):
http://www.munichfound.com/archives/id/106/article/2131/

An Online handicap certificate (claimed as “internationally recognised”) can be obtained directly from a number of UK websites.

Based on the above preliminary research, looks to me like it would be a major project even to create awareness of the need for testing in golf proficiency (over and above the locally run schemes for junior golfers).

I’ve been to 2 AGMs of the GUI Leinster Branch plus quite a few official golf functions and not heard one word on this issue.

At this point in time, compulsory golf proficiency certification (over and above handicap certification) could possibly come about following litigation and/or pressure from the insurance industry.

Meanwhile, given the scarcity of resources, it is up to people, who feel strongly about it to do something positive at local level.

Kace

Personally I think that a small number of rules need to be taught to the masses and well publicised in every club. For example, the vast majority of the people I play with in my own local club are always uncertain about where to drop a ball when they have entered water hazards. Admittedly I am not often in the company of sub 7 handicappers at present, but I play with guys anywhere from 8 to 28 and very few show an understanding of the rules here.

A lot of the more complex areas can get by without really needing to understand everything, as advice can be asked if a specific situation arises. Where people will always get caught out is during interclub competitions, where you can easily get caught out with infringements

That R&A rules quiz posted earlier is a real humbler and even people who have been playing golf competitively for years and years won't often score close to 100%.

J6P

It would be helpful if more clubs could upload videos like the following. I think the main problem with learning the rules is how incredibly boring they are to read and the way they are worded is sometimes just plain baffling.

FixdePitchmark

J6P wrote: »

It would be helpful if more clubs could upload videos like the following. I think the main problem with learning the rules is how incredibly boring they are to read and the way they are worded is sometimes just plain baffling.

It does not help that the rules of golf are too complicated.

There is no need for so many options with water hazards, how could you expect people to understand them all if this is just the rules around one type of stake.

golfwallah

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

It does not help that the rules of golf are too complicated.

There is no need for so many options with water hazards, how could you expect people to understand them all if this is just the rules around one type of stake.

Agreed the rules are complicated and you'd need to be a lawyer to understand some of them.

But they are the rules we have - and they are updated every 3 years by the R & A (see page 6 of 2012 - 2015 Rules for principal changes).

After that, all most golfers can do is learn as much as they can about them as they go along, by looking at videos such as the above or by attending seminars on the rules, etc.

Simplifying them is another day's work and an issue for a separate debate.

What an interesting project for someone to take on and see through to the next rules change for 2016 - 2019?

Any volunteers?;)

GreeBo

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

It does not help that the rules of golf are too complicated.

There is no need for so many options with water hazards, how could you expect people to understand them all if this is just the rules around one type of stake.

There are so many options in each scenario thus there are so many rules/explanations.

Thats why they give you a book, if you dont know the situation you find yourself in then look it up!

There is no valid excuse for not knowing the basic, everyday rules.

golfwallah

GreeBo wrote: »

There are so many options in each scenario thus there are so many rules/explanations.

Thats why they give you a book, if you dont know the situation you find yourself in then look it up!

There is no valid excuse for not knowing the basic, everyday rules.

Have to agree!

Every sport has rules - Rugby, Soccer, Gaelic Football, Hurling, etc. - and some rules are more complicated and hard to understand than others.

It's up to players, with as much support as possible from Clubs, GUI, etc., to make themselves familiar with rules covering the most common situations they experience.

Changing rules takes a lot of time and effort that could be better spent enjoying the game as it is.:)

MyKeyG

Pfft! Knowledge smoledge. This is the age of smart phone apps people:D