Warning light - VW Golf 1.4tsi petrol

corklad32

Hi lads,

Had my NCT test this morning and passed fine - however since i left the place my exhaust system warning light has come on? VW golf 08. Is this very unusual? I presume its to do with all the shaking of the car they do. My mech reckons VW's & Opels are very susceptible to this and the light should knock itself off after a few days?

Nissan doctor

The chances of the light being due to anything that the NCT did is microscopic.

And it sounds like your mechanic wasn't arsed to check what actually caused the light to come on.

corklad32

Well the car is 4 years old - the light has never come on before - i leave the NCT centre and 5 minutes later the light has come on..... Coincidence much? So I would say it is extremely likely that it was the shaking etc that is carried out in the test that caused this and all I'm wondering is have other people encountered this? As I said my mech mentioned that this is a common fault with both VW's and Opels going through the NCT and i'm wondering has anyone out there had this issue?

Cosmo K

When you say mechanic, do you mean a proper garage, or is it just a guy who knows something about cars?

corklad32

An indy! Services cars every day kind of dude.

Nissan doctor

corklad32 wrote: »

Well the car is 4 years old - the light has never come on before - i leave the NCT centre and 5 minutes later the light has come on..... Coincidence much? So I would say it is extremely likely that it was the shaking etc that is carried out in the test that caused this and all I'm wondering is have other people encountered this? As I said my mech mentioned that this is a common fault with both VW's and Opels going through the NCT and i'm wondering has anyone out there had this issue?

You realise, I'm sure, that the plates that test the suspension during the NCT test on only apply the same amount of vibration that your car gets during a couple of minutes on the road.

Also, you call it the 'exhaust system warning light', so presumably you think that shaking the exhaust caused this. The light is sometimes called an emissions light but is, in fact, and engine malfunction light. Its a coincidence for sure, but your car has an engine control system fault which needs to be diagnosed and repaired.

biko

Have codes read, take it from there.

CiniO

If by shaking you mean suspension test, trust me - Your car gets this every day in way more severe level while driving on regular roads.

The emission light could have come as a result of high revving your engine which he had to do during emission test.

Would you ever highly rev your engine during driving? (to the red zone)?
Is your car diesel or petrol?

Nissan doctor

CiniO wrote: »

If by shaking you mean suspension test, trust me - Your car gets this every day in way more severe level while driving on regular roads.

The emission light could have come as a result of high revving your engine which he had to do during emission test.

Would you ever highly rev your engine during driving? (to the red zone)?
Is your car diesel or petrol?

If its petrol they only rev it to approx 3000rpm which is what most cars are at on a motorway.

corklad32

CiniO wrote: »

If by shaking you mean suspension test, trust me - Your car gets this every day in way more severe level while driving on regular roads.

The emission light could have come as a result of high revving your engine which he had to do during emission test.

Would you ever highly rev your engine during driving? (to the red zone)?
Is your car diesel or petrol?

Na - I never rev it more than 4 or 5000RPM. Its a 1.4tsi petrol. The joys the joys

CiniO

corklad32 wrote: »

Na - I never rev it more than 4 or 5000RPM. Its a 1.4tsi petrol. The joys the joys

So that cant be the case so. They wouldn't revpetrols more than probably 2500 - 3000 for emissions test.

CiniO

Nissan doctor wrote: »

If its petrol they only rev it to approx 3000rpm which is what most cars are at on a motorway.

Ehh no I just though it was a diesel.

George Dalton

It is not exactly unusual for a 1.4TSI to have an engine warning light come on. It will have nothing to do with the NCT anyway, that is for sure.

Sounds like your mechanic has neither the interest or the specific knowledge of the 1.4TSI to fix your problem. You need to take the car to someone who is familiar with the TSI engines as they have plenty of common issues that can cause warning lights to come on.

dr.fuzzenstein

As said above, without the specific code, it could be anything.
Engine fault codes are your friend, they tell you exactly where the problem is most of the time.
I don't know why people are so afraid of them!
No code, no can help.

Voodoomelon

So can we change the title of this thread now then?

TestTransmission

Voodoomelon wrote: »

So can we change the title of this thread now then?

Done

mad muffin

Is it 125 BHP single turbo tsi or super charger+turbo tsi?

corklad32

Its the 140bhp one - it has the super & turbo chargers....

I'm going to wait until later today / tomorrow - I had the tsi 170hp model before and that light came on after the VW dealer disconnected something in the engine and reconnected it. That particular time the light cleared itself almost exactly 24 hours after it first came on....So here's hoping hmmmm. Rang another dealer y'day - they didn't pay much notice to it either once the car is running well and not misfiring. Just said drop it up towards then end of the week and they'll have a look at the codes.

promethius

a 1.4 petrol golf? dude get used to it, you're going to be seeing a lot more of this light as the car gets older

mad muffin

promethius wrote: »

a 1.4 petrol golf? dude get used to it, you're going to be seeing a lot more of this light as the car gets older

What? I had a 99 1.4 Bora 8 years, never gave me a days trouble in the engine department.

Central locking on the other hand…:rolleyes:

corklad32

promethius wrote: »

a 1.4 petrol golf? dude get used to it, you're going to be seeing a lot more of this light as the car gets older

Say it's not so

Nissan doctor

corklad32 wrote: »

Say it's not so

Lets just say its many years since 'Made in Germany' meant actual quality(as opposed to perceived quality) and bullet proof reliability.:(

mad muffin

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Lets just say its many years since 'Made in Germany' meant actual quality(as opposed to perceived quality) and bullet proof reliability.:(

What are you seeing out there?

Nissan doctor

mad muffin wrote: »

What are you seeing out there?

*Sigh* Go on then......out where?

corklad32

Well I was away for the last while so finally got the code read today - p3008 - my mechanic had never seen it before - from goggling it it appears to be related to the camshaft position sensor. Anyone any advice on this? It seems to be driving fine from my limited knowledge but the light is on for a week now. As i said earlier it came on after leaving the NCT. Could the sensor possibly have come loose or moved slightly during the test?

Thanks all

George Dalton

corklad32 wrote: »

Well I was away for the last while so finally got the code read today - p3008 - my mechanic had never seen it before - from goggling it it appears to be related to the camshaft position sensor. Anyone any advice on this? It seems to be driving fine from my limited knowledge but the light is on for a week now. As i said earlier it came on after leaving the NCT. Could the sensor possibly have come loose or moved slightly during the test?

Thanks all

Unfortunately I would say you are going to need a new timing chain

alexmcred

Op do you mind me asking is it a red 08 TS one your driving?

mad muffin

OSI wrote: »

The only way the engine in your Bora and the engine in the OP's Golf could be any different is if one was a Diesel, I really wouldn't put any weight in the reliability of your Bora in relation the OP.

I wasn't replying to the op

corklad32

alexmcred wrote: »

Op do you mind me asking is it a red 08 TS one your driving?

No a black 08 1.4tsi

corklad32

George Dalton wrote: »

corklad32 wrote: »

Well I was away for the last while so finally got the code read today - p3008 - my mechanic had never seen it before - from goggling it it appears to be related to the camshaft position sensor. Anyone any advice on this? It seems to be driving fine from my limited knowledge but the light is on for a week now. As i said earlier it came on after leaving the NCT. Could the sensor possibly have come loose or moved slightly during the test?

Thanks all

Unfortunately I would say you are going to need a new timing chain

Eh gods is that a big job? Bigger than a timing belt? I wonder is it ok to drive for now.

username?!

corklad32 wrote: »

Well I was away for the last while so finally got the code read today - p3008 - my mechanic had never seen it before - from goggling it it appears to be related to the camshaft position sensor. Anyone any advice on this? It seems to be driving fine from my limited knowledge but the light is on for a week now. As i said earlier it came on after leaving the NCT. Could the sensor possibly have come loose or moved slightly during the test?

Thanks all

had this car, and had the same problem, put my foot down on a wet road without the esp on and the vibrations knocked out the camshaft position sensor, if you take off the engine cover its like a plug with a lead that goes in vertically. It probably came loose, car wouldn't start for me until it was back in. Once i put it back the light stayed up, you just need to get it cleared.

this is what it looks like

http://www.micksgarage.ie/switches-sensors/camshaft-position-sensor/volkswagen/golf/golf-v/2003-onwards/1.4-tsi/18920/

George Dalton

corklad32 wrote: »

Eh gods is that a big job? Bigger than a timing belt? I wonder is it ok to drive for now.

Yes unfortunately it is a big job and costs quite a bit. The timing chain stretches on them and causes the cam and crank sensor signals to go out of sync hence the fault code and MIL. VW recommend changing the oil pump pickup pipe plus some other parts along with the chain, tensioner and guides to avoid repeat failure. It is fine to drive the car for now. As the situation gets worse the car will start to run badly.

corklad32

George Dalton wrote: »

corklad32 wrote: »

Eh gods is that a big job? Bigger than a timing belt? I wonder is it ok to drive for now.

Yes unfortunately it is a big job and costs quite a bit. The timing chain stretches on them and causes the cam and crank sensor signals to go out of sync hence the fault code and MIL. VW recommend changing the oil pump pickup pipe plus some other parts along with the chain, tensioner and guides to avoid repeat failure. It is fine to drive the car for now. As the situation gets worse the car will start to run badly.

Thanks for that. So again excuse my lack of knowledge but is it a case if a timing belt was starting to go you would need to replace it immediately as it could cause all sorts of damage would this not be the case with a timing chain also? what kind of money would you be talking sounds like an awful lot

George Dalton

Chains behave differently to belts. Chains rarely (if ever) break. What I reckon has happened in your case is that the chain has stretched slightly. Unfortunately any stretch in the chain is enough to knock the sensor signals out of sync and cause the warning light to come on. Later when it stretches more it will cause running issues as well. The chain is not in danger of breaking or slipping the timing so there is no real risk of engine damage like you would get if a timing belt breaks.

It should be pointed out that I am assuming the worst case scenario here. There is a possibility that your problem is with a sensor or wiring but any time I have seen that P3008 code on a TSI it has meant new chain time.

corklad32

George Dalton wrote: »

Chains behave differently to belts. Chains rarely (if ever) break. What I reckon has happened in your case is that the chain has stretched slightly. Unfortunately any stretch in the chain is enough to knock the sensor signals out of sync and cause the warning light to come on. Later when it stretches more it will cause running issues as well. The chain is not in danger of breaking or slipping the timing so there is no real risk of engine damage like you would get if a timing belt breaks.

It should be pointed out that I am assuming the worst case scenario here. There is a possibility that your problem is with a sensor or wiring but any time I have seen that P3008 code on a TSI it has meant new chain time.

Thanks for that good to hear from someone with experience of these. Can you tell me is this likely to happen very quickly as in weeks or months? Would you know of anyone in the cork area that would do this apart from the main dealers. Would you be looking at more than 1k or 2k to do this? Would it be obvious to a mechanic if the belt has stretched - would it be easy to see? Final question if the warning light was reset would you expect to see it come back on very quickly if it was a stretched chain. Sorry for all the q's but its good to have someone with first hand information

Nonoperational

I'd check the sensor the other poster mentioned first just in case...

Nissan doctor

As has been said, that fault is related to the reading the sensor is picking up, as opposed to an issue with the sensor itself. So, given that the car is still starting and driving ok, then a timing chain issue beginning is certainly the most likely cause.

George Dalton

Exactly, especially given the fact that these engines have an issue with chains stretching.

The full description of the code makes it clearer:

012296 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40): Signal Out of Range
P3008 - 000 - - - MIL ON

So the cam sensor is sending back a signal ok it just isn't doing it when the ECU expects it. I posted pictures a while back of old and new chains on one of these engines showing the difference between the two. I'll see if I can find them again.

George Dalton

Pictures below, sorry about the delay. Things are mental work wise at the moment. I am actually posting this from work :rolleyes: This week seems to be timing chain week, had a Corsa and two Almeras in today.

Anyway, here are the pictures of the TSI chain, old chain on top, new chain fitted in the bottom picture. The circled area in each picture shows the tensioner, you can judge how stretched the chain is by how much the tensioner plunger is protruding from the tensioner body. It is clear from the pictures that the old chain had stretched quite a bit. The car in these pictures is a 2007 TSI 140 and had only 72,000kms done when we replaced the chain last year.

Neilw

What causes them to stretch George?

I know someone who got a goodwill claim from VW to have the chain changed. Cost him small money in the end.

mickdw

My 1.8Tfsi audi has a chain too. Please let there not be a chain stretching issue with this engine.

George Dalton

Lack of oil supply or insufficient servicing is usually blamed, that goes for any car that suffers chain issues. I personally think that the chains aren't really up to it though, you'd see better chains on a pushbike than you see on some modern engines.

Nissan doctor

George Dalton wrote: »

Lack of oil supply or insufficient servicing is usually blamed, that goes for any car that suffers chain issues. I personally think that the chains aren't really up to it though, you'd see better chains on a pushbike than you see on some modern engines.

I think, for the most part, the servicing excuse is the manufacturers way out of it.

As far as I'm concerned its poor quality parts as oil type supply issues can only really effect the tensioner/pulleys etc. It has to be poor quality metal for it to actually stretch.

The obvious comparison, N15 and N16 almera's both use chains. N15 chains never stretch, N16 ones do. Do Nissan expect us to believe that people with N15's service their cars better then people with N16's?:rolleyes:

spannerboy

hello, My daughter took her VW Golf Sport TSi 140 DSG (2007)(around 47000 miles) into a VW dealer. It had developed a fault with the mechatronic unit. A replacement was going to take around 6 weeks, but it was ok to use the car until then.

They also commented that the timing chain was noisy and would need replacing at some time in the future, but was ok to use for now.

However after a few days the engine 'blew up' . car stopped suddenly etc. (could have been a nasty accident)

Towed to VW garage and they say a nut fell off the turbo impeller and caused the failure.

She is now faced with a bill for £8000 to replace the engine and turbos an labour etc.

Any thought or advice would be more than appreciated.

GavMan

spannerboy wrote: »

hello, My daughter took her VW Golf Sport TSi 140 DSG (2007)(around 47000 miles) into a VW dealer. It had developed a fault with the mechatronic unit. A replacement was going to take around 6 weeks, but it was ok to use the car until then.

They also commented that the timing chain was noisy and would need replacing at some time in the future, but was ok to use for now.

However after a few days the engine 'blew up' . car stopped suddenly etc. (could have been a nasty accident)

Towed to VW garage and they say a nut fell off the turbo impeller and caused the failure.

She is now faced with a bill for £8000 to replace the engine and turbos an labour etc.

Any thought or advice would be more than appreciated.

This may well deserve a thread of its own OP. Might get more attention.

spannerboy

GavMan wrote: »

This may well deserve a thread of its own OP. Might get more attention.

Thanks GavMan, I've done what you suggested but as I've only just joined up to this site not sure if I have broken any rules putting it in two places at once ??

any idea ? and thanks again for the advice.