Irish Motorways with sharp turn offs

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup

Has there been a thread about these yet? If so, I couldn't find it.

What's the deal with these near 90 degree turn offs from a motoway where you can be going 120kmph?!

That one's in Roscrea and there's another in Ennis.

ongarite

N3 exit on Southbound M50 has a very sharp right bend and its cambered too.

Gophur

georgiecasey wrote: »

Has there been a thread about these yet? If so, I couldn't find it.

What's the deal with these near 90 degree turn offs from a motoway where you can be going 120kmph?!

That one's in Roscrea and there's another in Ennis.

If you read the signs properly you will see an appropriate speed limit for the turn off, much less than 120kph.

Any driver should never drive at a speed inappropriate for the conditions and should not be relying on a speed limit to guide him/her.


Edit: the slip road speed limit is 50kph, posted some distance back.

Or, OP, are you suggesting the slip roads should be capable of being taken at 120kph?

Gingernuts31

That one in Roscrea is maybe going to be redone because the people of roscrea are causing a stink over it. It is very dangerous I came off on it with a van and trailer with machines on it and I heard it was sharp but jesus the whole van almost went through the little poles and I wsn't even going fast.

Mitch Connor

It looks like it would be great fun!

Used to love coming off the M50 at the RedCow when the redesign was being done - if you had no traffic in front of you the way it dipped and curved made a nice bit of driving road for a few seconds.

CiniO

I can't really see where's the problem.
All over the world motorway exits are sharp.

Gingernuts31

Its the having to break when your in a line of traffic thats doin 120 its a receipe for a pile up or rear ending. The red cow for instance is grand because you have a nice long slip road to slow down on. Its the short slip roads that are the problem not so much the sharp turn at the end but in all honesty they could make them better from the off.

cruizer101

There is two of these on the M7 alright, the one picture and I think junction 24. There dangerous alright as there is quite a short slip and its not even as though there was something stopping them puttin in a better one that I can see, its just open land around them.

I've seen the sign on one of them taken out already, and will happen again.

They are not like some of the ones on the M50 which are cambered curves, its simply a corner. Bad design in my opinion.

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup

Gophur wrote: »

If you read the signs properly you will see an appropriate speed limit for the turn off, much less than 120kph.

Any driver should never drive at a speed inappropriate for the conditions and should not be relying on a speed limit to guide him/her.


Edit: the slip road speed limit is 50kph, posted some distance back.

Or, OP, are you suggesting the slip roads should be capable of being taken at 120kph?

I knew there'd be a reply like this but yes, I wasn't paying 100% attention to every road sign on the motoway and missed the 50kmph sign and didn't expect the turn off to be so sharp. Guilty as charged.

Any driver should never drive at a speed inappropriate for the conditions and should not be relying on a speed limit to guide him/her.

Well I was driving appropriatly for the conditions of a straight motorway with a120kmph speed limit but wasn't expecting such a drastic change in conditions!

cabrwab

The lane for slowing down is not the longest to be honest either so you need to start slowing down drastically on the motorway,
This exit and moneygall after it is lethal.
There is a 50Kmh limit your right but it should be alot slower to take the turn turn.

If your not prepared for it you will be caught off guard at how tight it is.
But its not safe end of story.

Nok1a

Gophur wrote: »

If you read the signs properly you will see an appropriate speed limit for the turn off, much less than 120kph.

Any driver should never drive at a speed inappropriate for the conditions and should not be relying on a speed limit to guide him/her.


Edit: the slip road speed limit is 50kph, posted some distance back.

Or, OP, are you suggesting the slip roads should be capable of being taken at 120kph?

ah there he is, the typical know it all looking down on the rest of us from his big shiny horse.


OP I agree, one of the key factors which should decide whether a road qualifies as a motorway should be the standard of the slip roads and the one highlighted above is clearly sub standard and will surely be an accident black spot over the years.

For sure the accident could be prevented by taking the tea pots advice above but lets be real here not everyone will and its these people who road designers should be wary of. Actually flip it lets take his advice. Lets also get rid of the crash barriers, surely "Any driver should never drive at a speed inappropriate for the conditions and should not be relying on a speed limit to guide him/her." so we dont need them. What else could we save on....

Mena

Don't think it's as bad as the one in the OP, but N7 off to Newbridge/Curragh caught me by surprise the first time I used it many, many years ago, as it's a lot shorter than it first appears.

deandean

That Roscrea one an the M7 is I reckon, the worst / most dangerous one in the country.

And there is no shortage of space at that exit - whatever stupid feckin eejit approved it should be {mutter mutter}.

I saw an artic truck on its side there soon after it opened.

The problem with m'way exits here is INCONSISTENCY.

sealgaire

your not supposed to take any turn at 120k ffs

Paparazzo

Nok1a wrote: »

ah there he is, the typical know it all looking down on the rest of us from his big shiny horse.


OP I agree, one of the key factors which should decide whether a road qualifies as a motorway should be the standard of the slip roads and the one highlighted above is clearly sub standard and will surely be an accident black spot over the years.

For sure the accident could be prevented by taking the tea pots advice above but lets be real here not everyone will and its these people who road designers should be wary of. Actually flip it lets take his advice. Lets also get rid of the crash barriers, surely "Any driver should never drive at a speed inappropriate for the conditions and should not be relying on a speed limit to guide him/her." so we dont need them. What else could we save on....

Jesus wept, paying attention to roadsigns coming off a motorway is now an "up on your high horse" offence?
Gophur, you should be ignoring road signs and slamming on the brakes like the rest of us :rolleyes:

Nok1a

sealgaire wrote: »

your not supposed to take any turn at 120k ffs

"ffs" that is not the point. You are also not supposed to take all corners on an r road at 80kph, yet people do and people crash and society pays the cost in many many ways.

A bit of common sense by the road designers would lead them to the conclusion that this will be an accident black spot due to the crap ass design of this junction combined with drivers not paying attention so why not spend a few more euros and make a proper job of it and in the long term we will save as we will not have to fix the fence 50 times / close of the exit 50 times / pay increased insurance premiums because some joe in the insurance database with the same attributes as yourself mis judged a motorway exit and wrote his car off

ianobrien

In all my travels, Ireland has the least sharp and longest motorway exit roads I've ever seen. The idea behind them is to slow you down from motorway speeds to national primary/secondary road speeds. There is proper signage with a speed limit etc to tell you what speed is appropriate for the motorway exit. What you're supposed to do is leave the motorway carrageway at 120kph(ish) and once on the exit slip-road, SLOW DOWN! It's easy really. Try taking a typical motorway exit at 120kph in France or Germany and you'll have fun....

Another bug-bearer of mine is the extra long entrances onto motorways we seem to have. All other countries I've been in have been shorter, meaning proper accelleration is needed to get up to speed before merging. Here, the long slip roads means traffic meanders up to any speed (more than likely not motorway speed ) and changes lane. If the slips were shorter, people would have to concentrate and drive them properly!

Nok1a

Paparazzo wrote: »

Jesus wept, paying attention to roadsigns coming off a motorway is now an "up on your high horse" offence?
Gophur, you should be ignoring road signs and slamming on the brakes like the rest of us :rolleyes:

really, op asked a simple question which in my opinion is a very valid one and along comes Gophur belittles the op and reckons that it was a stupid question because in a perfect world having a 90degrees bend(LILO) on a motorway slip road is acceptable because people(dont forget these are irish people who cant even process the simple instruction that the outer lane is the overtaking lane) will always be paying attention to everything and the wind will always be blowing in the correct direction and the road will never be wet and no driver will ever be caught out by this untypical junction design(posters reckon 2 exits in all our motorways are like this)

Its called mitigating your loses and the NRA should have done this

CiniO

In short words someone who is exiting motorway at 120km/h because he's thinking it's still a motorway, shouldn't really be driving at all.

eire-kp

It seems to be a feature of motorways world wide for some reason?

A lot of the interstates in the US have ridiculous exits aswell. My employer there reckoned to keep going as quick as you could until you got on them as he reckoned most of the crashes in the company accident records were caused by some idiots with the cruise control on running in to the rear of his trailers coming up to exits.

All very well in a doing that in a car but a different story in a 80000 pound truck in 75mph traffic.

The suggested ramp speed used to be 35 in a lot of them and you would not be doing more than that around them without turning over.

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup

Nok1a wrote: »

really, op asked a simple question which in my opinion is a very valid one and along comes Gophur belittles the op and reckons that it was a stupid question because in a perfect world having a 90degrees bend(LILO) on a motorway slip road is acceptable because people(dont forget these are irish people who cant even process the simple instruction that the outer lane is the overtaking lane) will always be paying attention to everything and the wind will always be blowing in the correct direction and the road will never be wet and no driver will ever be caught out by this untypical junction design(posters reckon 2 exits in all our motorways are like this)

Its called mitigating your loses and the NRA should have done this

agreed, i was just making the observation in the OP, of course i didn't come near to crashing myself as i'm a fantastic driver who just misses road signs every now and then

but seriously, if some people manage to drive down the wrong direction on a dual-carriageway (i still can't figure out how the cars travelling in the opposite direction aren't a final giveaway but i digress), then surely a lot of people are going to slide off into the other lane at speed and cause serious accidents.

bazzachazza

Very very very common across Europe. Most exits on the continent are designed to be taken at 50km/h, doing this reduces the amount of land required for a motorway. You get enough warning with the posted speed signs.

By the way folks, come up with a better argument than "Get down off your high horse" it's old and boring.

Gophur has a VERY valid point, It's an exit and NOT the motorway it has a separate limit for a reason the reason being it ends in a roundabout or a T junction.

This exit is not unique in that it has one lower than the main carriageway ALL motorway exit's unless linking to another motorway have a LOWER limit.

Seasoft

(Sorry about the size of the following post.)

Unlike other countries, in Ireland drivers on 120kph stretches of motorway may take an exit and the first sign they see is 50kph. This is a sudden drop of 70kph.

In France the signs are graduated: Atypical exit is shown in the two images: the first shows a dropped limit of 70kph and a little further on the sign is 50kph. This practice would help perhaps at exits like No. 22 on the M7.

First 70kph

then 50kph

Vikings

ianobrien wrote: »

Here, the long slip roads means traffic meanders up to any speed (more than likely not motorway speed ) and changes lane. If the slips were shorter, people would have to concentrate and drive them properly!

I completely disagree, from my own experiences at least! As someone who regularly joins the m50 southbound at the n4 I can say that shorter slips onto the motorway are more dangerous than the longer ones.



The amount of times people in front of me joining the m50 in that outside lane have tootled along up to the merging point at 50-60km/h is astounding. I'd say 6/7 times out of 10. This then causes me behind them a lot of problems, they are not going fast enough to merge safely - I am attempting to get up to speed to merge safely and am forced to brake because of the moron in front. 9 times out of 10 I have to move into the inside lane and merge further down.

And whats worse than that again? The retards in the inside lane who decide they won't wait to merge when they get a broken white line in a few hundred meters so decide to cross the hatch markings and try barge in front of you. This is my number 1 pet hate of all time when it comes to motorways.

Big Nasty

If you think any exit in Ireland is sharp you would want to try driving in Belgium and also Germany where you could easily be doing above 160kmph approaching the exit.

People in this country are not properly educated on motorway driving.

tin79

ongarite wrote: »

N3 exit on Southbound M50 has a very sharp right bend and its cambered too.

But it is signposted well and limits signs go 100-80-50-30 so its not so bad I think

puppetmaster

Have driven on many countries motorway systems, Have to say i think we are amoung the best for Giving slowdown speed up time on motorway exits.

I dont know if you've driven in the states, but if you miss judge one of their exits or interchanges their not very forgiving. Raised 360 deg loops and the likes.

Frank Black

Nok1a wrote: »

A bit of common sense by the road designers would lead them to the conclusion that this will be an accident black spot due to the crap ass design of this junction combined with drivers not paying attention so why not spend a few more euros and make a proper job of it and in the long term we will save as we will not have to fix the fence 50 times / close of the exit 50 times / pay increased insurance premiums because some joe in the insurance database with the same attributes as yourself mis judged a motorway exit and wrote his car off

I'll forgive you your ignorance because you obviously don't know any better.

The junction is perfectly designed and complies with the relevant DMRB standards in all aspects, blaming the Designers is quite simply incorrect.

Problem is with the planning of the junction.

Originally the Castletown Nenagh scheme was planned as a Dual Carriageway and the land acquired under CPO was for this scenario. These compact grade separated junctions are allowed for DC roads where traffic volumes are low, which they are at Roscrea and Moneygall.

Years later the NRA/Goverenment decide to 'upgrade' all the inter-urbans to Motorways, but not upgrade the junctions.

Result is what you see today.

yllw.ldbttr

28 posts and nobody has mentioned the Glanmire exit northbound off the M8... I'm shocked

johnos1984

Looks like you weren't the only person who was shocked by that exit :eek:

SeanW

Had to use the Moneygall exit about a month ago. Totally bonkers.

Could they really have saved that much money building these sh**y junctions versus proper merging on/off lanes? I mean, all that tarmac and earthworks around those bends doesn't look very efficient.

johnam

Junction 13 on the Limerick to Galway motorway, (i.e. the Tulla Exit on the Ennis Bypass) is crazy, there is no advance warning of the bad corner, or of the speed limit etc. But that is not the bad part, the dangerous part is that the slip lane before the turn is at most 20 meters long, given that it takes 80+ meters to slow from 120kmph to 50kmph at maximum breaking force, this means that you have to slow down on the motorway. This leads to cars behind you either coming right up your tail, or jumping out into the fast lane without looking properly. There is a huge area of land that was used for the site offices for this section of motorway just at the junction, there is no reason for such a short slip lane.
Joining the motor way at this junction is just as bad, there is a 30 meter slip lane to join, so you come around a bad corner at max 40/50kmph, and have 30 meters to get up to motorway speed. Very bad planning

mcwhirter

Its very bad considering a lot of these roads were built only a few years ago. Could they not have learnt from other more 'advanced' countries mistakes.

L1011

mcwhirter wrote: »

Its very bad considering a lot of these roads were built only a few years ago. Could they not have learnt from other more 'advanced' countries mistakes.

Roads were planned as 100km/h dual carriageways; and exits of that type are quite normal on those - and on German autobahns for that matter.

Mycroft H

Just try driving on a Autobahn in germany, most exits were designed 40-50 years ago when most cars were pottering around at less then 100km/h. A lot of them have fairly sharp off ramps

mcwhirter

But Ireland's motorways were built not long ago, when a 'slow' car can do 100mph.

L1011

mcwhirter wrote: »

But Ireland's motorways were built not long ago, when a 'slow' car can do 100mph.

They weren't "meant" to be motorways.

Guy:Incognito

mcwhirter wrote: »

But Ireland's motorways were built not long ago, when a 'slow' car can do 100mph.

A slow car (or any) car shouldnt be doing 100mph though. They build roads and put 100 -120km speed limits on them. If someone decides to exit the motorway at 100mph + and crashes, thats not the fault of anyone but the driver.

mcwhirter

never said to do 100mph on a corner, max speed is 100 mph, the new roads should reflect the higher speeds in a modern society compared to old autobahn built for cars at pottering about speeds.

Plenty of trucks tipped over on the exits of m50 for instance due to too tight bends.

2012:fast

1962 : slow

L1011

mcwhirter wrote: »

Plenty of trucks tipped over on the exits of m50 for instance due to too tight bends.

For "plenty", read "one".

Well hung

Have to agree that some of the slip roads on and off the motorway in this country have been designed terribly.

Another slip road were it can be quite difficult to merge on in heavy traffic is the n3 to m50 heading northbound. If you were to only cross were the broken lines are all you have is about 2 and half car lengths, it also narrows very quickly.

dgt

How about this exit?

mcwhirter

The facts are very easily sought, get in your car and drive, tight bends galore in modern ireland.

Ronnie Beck

no last minute decisions here. It's lucky there's a second turn off the far side of ennis. Must have been a issues with the budget on this one.






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L1011

dgt wrote: »

How about this exit?

That one is still on a dualer - JUST.

randy hickey

Simple solution to this problem;

1) Leave all "sharp" motorway exits as they are.

2) Introduce drifting to the driving test.

Chimaera

As others have said, the problem with these junctions isn't the bend at the end, it's the ridiculously short decelerating lane you get on the main carriageway.

To arrive at the bend at a safe speed, you either leave the traffic lane at 80 km/h or less, or use the hard shoulder to decelerate. Slowing down that much in traffic is not terribly safe or courteous to other drivers, and you're not really meant to use the hard shoulder to drive in.

Tallon

deandean wrote: »

That Roscrea one an the M7 is I reckon, the worst / most dangerous one in the country.

The Moneygal one is way worse.. Every time I go down there, I'm tempted to stay going to Nenagh it's that bad!

Guy:Incognito

mcwhirter wrote: »

Plenty of trucks tipped over on the exits of m50 for instance due to too tight bends.

Was the truck that tipped over doing more than the (iirc) 30km limit posted on those bends?

Well hung wrote: »

Another slip road were it can be quite difficult to merge on in heavy traffic is the n3 to m50 heading northbound. If you were to only cross were the broken lines are all you have is about 2 and half car lengths, it also narrows very quickly.

Your not meant to fly up to that bit then look to your right and hope for a gap. When your merging you have all the space before that part to line yourself up in a gap.

It never ceaeses to amaze me how 90% of the cars fight their way in to the right slip lane on all the M50 ramps then try merge in the few meteres as a big block instead of usesing the huge long lane to the right that goes all the way to the next junction when they can take their time to merge.

challengemaster

Ronnie Beck wrote: »

no last minute decisions here. It's lucky there's a second turn off the far side of ennis. Must have been a issues with the budget on this one.






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Have to say any time I've driven that road, I've found that was the most fun part of it

L1011

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Was the truck that tipped over doing more than the (iirc) 30km limit posted on those bends?

The 30 limit is from after the truck-tipping. But I'd imagine they were doing more than the 50 that was posted before.