Problems with Punk

jaykhunter

CM Punk is consistently in the top 3 merchandise sellers. He receives a huge response from the crowd each week. He's the WWE Champion in a very featured feud, and is given the coveted RAW timeslots (1 hour main event, the over-run). But the growing trend over the last while is that fans tune out in droves when he's on. For example, his match this week on RAW with the Miz was the lowest rated segment of the show; losing 139,000 viewers - and this is not an isolated incident.

So here's my Top 5 Reasons CM Punk is Losing Viewers.

1) He's not John Cena but in the top spot.
After Cena ruling the roost since.....2005, it's extremely difficult for fans en masse to accept anyone new, after so many people were passed over. He never got that shining endorsement he needed (beating Cena clean in a great storyline again, then either Orton and Triple H clean would've done it - but no) so he's still seen as inferior to Cena in the pecking order.

2) His feuds suck
Rushed return, Kevin Nash/Triple H bull****, and Laurinaitis - who cares. He's not Vince McMahon, he takes crap all day from everyone, Clown Shoes. Basically like feuding with the stooges, although not quite as bad. Trying to elevate yourself while feuding with mid-carders doesn't work. His storylines have generally been terrible, and Punk himself makes the best of the situation.

3) His face character is a phoney.
He spent the last few years as a heel cultivating this vicious real heel. It culminates at Money in the Bank where he match was one of the most important moments in years, being an agent of change. Then he comes back far too soon, being a smarky face, trampling on the values he set up (being HHH's mate etc)

4) Punk tends to "HHH" his opponents
Punk often buries his opponents, without retort, in his promos. Not perceiving a guy as a threat kills interest in a feud.

5) He's not that entertaining
He just complains about everything not being entertaining. His character is geared towards the smarks, but it's really for the marks, I don't think either are convinced. At a stretch, he's basically John Cena without the terrible poopy humour. Breaking kayfabe and saying I want change = amazing! Complaining every week about the show = awful.

Why do you think fans tune out for CM Punk?

rovert

jaykhunter wrote: »

Right, so Punk's been back a good while now since his one-week hiatus in July-August. He's is a hot merchandise seller (always in the top 3), but he's constantly getting bad ratings; his segments lose viewers - his match vs Miz was the lowest rated segment on RAW this week.

Why do you think fans tune out for CM Punk?

It is mainly just women btw

Charisteas

rovert wrote: »

It is mainly just women btw

Unless they have a big brother style camera in every household in America, i've always wondered how on earth can Nielsen or whoever possibly know how many males/females/age demographics are tuning in/tuning out to each show and more specifically each segment.

Surely has to be guess-work more or less?

jaykhunter

Charisteas wrote: »

Surely has to be guess-work more or less?

Kind of, it's a sampling of thousands of homes across America, so it's an estimate rather than cold hard numbers. Although I bet digital tvs/DVRs have made it much easier, I'm sure they all collect data.

gimmick

jaykhunter wrote: »

Right, so Punk's been back a good while now since his one-week hiatus in July-August. He's is a hot merchandise seller (always in the top 3), but he's constantly getting bad ratings; his segments lose viewers - his match vs Miz was the lowest rated segment on RAW this week.

Why do you think fans tune out for CM Punk?

The show in general is poor for the last while. BS storylines, poor in ring action etc. Perhaps people have had enough come the last 30 minutes. I know I usually have, and I am fast forwarding it anyway!

gnfnrhead

jaykhunter wrote: »

Why do you think fans tune out for CM Punk?

Because he back to being the exact same as he was before his taking the title and leaving for a week stunt. He started losing interest as soon as he came back. People loved him for rebelling. Returning two weeks later got rid of that idea very quickly. He's interchangable again.

Captain Morgan Freeman

Well for the last few months American football was on monday nights and no show can compete with that. I would imagine people hopped over and back between it and Raw on mondays or simply not watch Raw at all. There's also the fact that punk's storyline with John laringitis has been god awful.

Also Nielsen isn't very accurate. It doesn't take into account people who record the show, watch repeats, watch on live streams or even watch on youtube the next day.

the groutch

He's become everything he badmouthed Cena for being.

starviewadams

He's generally quite boring,and not as a good a wrestler as he thinks he is,his sarcy promo's and the whole 'best in the world' schtick has gotten old fairly quickly too.Fair play to Vince for sticking with him as champion,but I think he's flogging a dead horse.

His feud with Jericho hasn't exactly gotten off to a hot start either.

Mr.Nice Guy

His character, along with the show itself, is a mess. I think that's the real problem. He was supposed to be the instigator of change who would change the WWE and be the anti-establishment rebel. Let's look at what he rebelled against...

HHH: He went from burying HHH, 'your wife wears the pants in the relationship' etc. to actually trying to get him to stay in his job and acting as one of the few people who didn't walk out on him. Poor writing which makes his character look bad.

Laurinaitis: He was supposed to be intent on seeing Laurinaitis get fired - 'HHH will fire you next week etc.' but they just decided that he would keep his job whilst Hunter seemingly doesn't give a toss about it. Punk meanwhile as far as I know hasn't said a peep about it. How can you invest in a character who forgets the changes he's trying to implement?

The company: He was going to scrap the spinner belt he said. He still has it. He was critical of the term WWE Universe. He still uses it. He didn't like Cena's role in the company. He now has it.

Effectively they have turned a guy who could have been the hottest thing in this generation into another WWE branded babyface. He should still do well though if he can win over the traditional Cena fanbase as the hardcores will always worship the ground he walks on.

A Primal Nut

Regarding him killing people in promo's, surely that's the other wrestlers fault for being so bad!

I think the main problem is the lack of a serious threat, an established main eventer. He's feuding with Laurinitis which is great, but in terms on a feud with someone in the ring, there hasn't been anyone interesting. Another feud with Cena, properly done would be great and would make Punk a star again.

Jericho could still be that serious threat, but they need to beef up the feud a little bit. Hopefully that's what will happen in the run-up to WrestleMania. I'm sure once they have serious promos together the ratings will come back up for Punk. I can't see him burying Jericho with his promos.

rovert

He's pandering to females now:

http://beta.realmilwaukeenow.com/2012/wwe-superstar-cm-punk-pays-real-milwaukee-a-visit/

All clean shaved and presentable looking.

jaykhunter

Ha, yeah.



He just needs a suit and the transformation will be complete!

therickreport

the reason Punk is failing is because he's the top guy right now, which means he's not underrated anymore and most internet fans hate guys that are popular.

the groutch

jaykhunter wrote: »

He just needs a suit and the transformation will be complete!

and a glass of red wine in his hand :pac:

rovert

jaykhunter wrote: »

Ha, yeah.

No seriously I am not joking on the women thing

:

Raw on 2/13 did a 3.01 rating and 4.14 million viewers, awful numbers for February, even worse when you factor in the advertised return of Shawn Michaels on the show.

The show really took a hit on the women's side, as it was a 69.2% male audience skew, and also the number of female viewers and viewers per home were among the lowest I can recall, which means more people watched the show alone than usual.

In the demos, male teens did a 2.6 (down 10%), Males 18-49 did a 2.7 (down 10%), female teens did a 0.6 (down 33%) and Women 18-49 did a 1.1 (down 8%). There wasn't a lot of significant competition either, as Raw was No. 3 on cable for the night, and the only significant competing sports event, ESPN College basketball, saw the game against the first hour do a 1.47 rating and the game against the second hour do a 1.21.

The segment-by-segment doesn't tell much of a story other than people were not interested in watching Raw, as the first quarter with the debate did a 2.93, a half-point lower than usual. From there, Chris Jericho vs. Kofi Kingston lost 49,000 viewers, which is way less of a drop than usual in that slot. Backstage stuff with John Cena and Zack Ryder and John Laurinaitis and David Otunga lost 24,000 viewers. Randy Orton vs. Big Show gained 93,000 viewers. The only segment that saved the show and clearly what those watching were interested in was the return of Michaels, with HHH, which gained 822,000 viewers to a 3.56 quarter, an excellent gain. I was shocked they put Michaels and HHH on at 10 p.m. instead of 11 p.m., feeling it was the draw, and not the tired Cena-Kane story. Dolph Ziggler vs. R-Truth lost 621,000 viewers, another sign that the audience was really only interested in one angle. Tamina Snuka vs. Brie Bella and the angle where John Cena kissed Torres lost 320,000 viewers. C.M. Punk vs. The Miz lost 139,000 viewers and the main event was the low point of the show, doing a 2.77 quarter. The Cena-Ryder overrun with Kane gained 505,000 viewers, which is weak for an overrun, doing a 3.14

Wrestling Observer

gnfnrhead

therickreport wrote: »

the reason Punk is failing is because he's the top guy right now, which means he's not underrated anymore and most internet fans hate guys that are popular.

No.

I dont know anyone that hates CM Punk, just a lot of people who are bored and unhappy with what he has turned in to.

Plus, Internet fans = Tiny minority in terms of TV ratings. Eric Bischoff reckons its only about 10% of the weekly audiance. Everyone else is a normal run of the mill fan, or a casual fan who decided to watch because it was on.

the return of Michaels, with HHH, which gained 822,000 viewers

Holy shit! Definition of a one segment show, right there.

DM_7

Punk isn't losing viewers.

WWE Raw has had fluctuating viewer ratings for years.

Some of the commentary's that go along with the viewer reports make no sense. This weeks rating for example is criticised as it didn't have much competition on cable - em what about non cable channels.

jaykhunter

Punk IS losing viewers. Taking the general WWE audience trend out of the equation, almost 140,000 tuned out when Punk wrestled during RAW. Suddenly people had something to watch, yet people tuned back in for the Cena/Kane over-run? Nah!! Punk's over-run lost viewers a few weeks back as well, which is generally WWE's highest rated segment. This isn't isolated. So we're here to discuss why!

RE: The female demo, I didn't think Punk's a bowler, is he!

Punk is a phenomenal talent but for a multitude of reasons, his crowd reaction isn't parlay to the TV audience reaction.

Yeah gnfnr, i'd imagine that the IWC actually is closer 1% of WWE's audience, if not less. But i'd like to think we're a good indictaor/judge of talent

JP Liz V1

C.M. Punk vs. The Miz lost 139,000 viewers

I blame Miz

Wasnt the ratings falling before Punk was WWE champ?

rossie1977

gimmick wrote: »

The show in general is poor for the last while. BS storylines, poor in ring action etc.!

raw has never been a bastion of good wrestling, when it was doing record numbers in 2000 every week it had same format, 20-30 minute hhh or hhh and his buddies promo to open show, mark henry skit with mae young, short match, another mark henry skit, short match, hhh backstage, short match, show ends with hhh or one of his buddies winning final match of the night

anyway raw the night after royal rumble was a great show

Lord TSC

I don't know why they keep booking Punk vs Miz; has the match ever done anything but lose viewers?

Anyway, I agree the problem is they've turned him into Cena; he makes horrible PG jokes, he tends to laugh everything off after two weeks and for someone who promised change, he's changed nothing. I think it's a case, though, of he became hot by playing himself over last summer, but then when he came back, WWE started booking him to be "The Top Face", and they only know one way of doing that...

rovert

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I don't know why they keep booking Punk vs Miz; has the match ever done anything but lose viewers?

Miz vs R-Truth is ratings death too

spiralism

Punk is the best there now imo. He's being wasted a lot of the time in stupid feuds(laurinitas, nash/hhh) but has shown to be brilliant against the likes of Cena. Given that he's now headed for a feud with Jericho, i have faith that Jericho will bring out the best in him.

He wouldnt be killing people in promos if they could come back from it. Rest assured he wont bury Jericho in one without getting it back just as good

Bandana boy

because he is not very likeable, he works better as a heel, he just does not have the charisma for top face.
tbh thats ok -HHH never worked as a top face along with many others let him return to heeldom and he will be fine

Charlie Haughy

He should go back to his Killswitch Engage theme music.

rossie1977

Bandana boy wrote: »

because he is not very likeable

somebody must like him

The Wrestling Observer is reporting that CM Punk and John Cena are "neck-and-neck" in terms of merchandise sales in WWE, with Punk ahead in the adult male demographic

thats from just 3 days ago, nobody has been consistently able to challenge cena in merch sales last 7 years outside jeff hardy circa late 2008/early 2009. in addition punk garners by far the biggest face reaction with the live crowd but yet the tv audience is apathetic towards him which is very strange

Handsome Bob

I'd echoe what others have said, it was criminal that they didn't make more of the HHH/Punk feud, I mean there was no pay off from it at all.

His feud with Laurianitis was a mess in the sense that Punk was cutting these promos that were full of hatred towards Laurianitis...when the guy hadn't done all that much (on screen) to warrant such hatred.

His self awareness is also irritating, I haven't seen him do it too much lately but there was a period where he'd say "pipebomb" everytime he said something "edgey". It was just fcuking lame.

He needs better feuds as well, IMO the Jericho feud has started promisingly enough but where does Punk go as a character after Jericho leaves? This isn't his fault, it McMahon's fault for not bothering to build anyone in a meaningful way other than Cena and Orton.

That being said, he's still one of the few reasons why my interest is still alive in pro wrestling.

Captain Morgan Freeman

I think the major reason punk hasn't taken off as a face is because he hasn't had a top quality heel to work with. Faces feed off of heels and vice versa. When John Cena made the transition to the top face in the company he had great heels in JBL, Kurt Angle and Edge to work with. They were all interesting characters that the fans were invested in and were able to put on great feuds with Cena. The same goes for Batista, when he became a mega face he feuded with Triple H, JBL and Eddie Guerrero. All great heels that brought out the best in him. If the fans don't care about the heel they are less likely to care about the face feuding with him, imagine if John Cena feuded with Hunico or Jinder Mahal . No one would care because the fans don't give a damm about either of those wrestlers. This is basically what happened to punk since he became a face, with the exception of Triple H who hurt punks popularity for reasons i will state below.

Since Punk became a face he feuded with the insanely popular Triple H who the fans were always going to cheer for instead of Punk, suicide for the guy you are building as your next big face. Seriously whoever decided his first feud as a face should be against the guy who entrance music is "The Game" should go sit in a corner and put on a dunce hat. After that he feuded with Del Rio a guy who gets less heat then his ring announcer. Just think about that for a second, the guy who is supposed to be Raw's top heel gets less boo's then the guy who simply calls out his name. If the fans don't care about Del Rio then they aren't going to care about Punk's feud with him. Most recently he feuded with Dolph Ziggler who despite having a great future ahead of him just isn't there yet as a top heel.


With his upcoming feud with Jericho he finally has someone good enough to get the best out of him like Cena was able to last summer. I just hope Jericho sticks around after mania to let this feud go on a while longer because if done right it could really make the fans care about punk.

jaykhunter

Just on another point, in the grand scheme of things, ratings don't matter. If RAW does a 3.0 or a 10.0 it doesn't gain them an extra cent, until it's time to renegotiate with the USA Network, which could be years away. But it's an interesting instant feedback on the general consensus. Ratings are generally broken down by quarter hours, which feature a main match. People know how long ads are, and if a segment contains something they don't like (eg Miz vs anyone) then they won't come back in a few minutes, but later.

Some shows (like Dexter) do account for DVR recordings but the trend about Punk's segments specifically isn't altered since people won't watch live AND DVR one segment. So individual segments won't fluctuate.

The big question is why does Punk get a massive response in the arena and merchandise, but ratings breakdowns say otherwise? Baffling. It's not like people who go to the arena don't watch wrestling each week as well.

rossie1977

jaykhunter wrote: »

The big question is why does Punk get a massive response in the arena and merchandise, but ratings breakdowns say otherwise? Baffling. It's not like people who go to the arena don't watch wrestling each week as well.

and its not just punk, same thing with orton, sells decent amount of merch, gets good face reactions live and yet the tv audience switch off when he is on, sd ratings when he was champ during two spells last year were awful and rose when the belt was taken off him

Furious-Red

Yea i think what they are doing with Punk and Johnnny it should have been with HHH .

They could have planned this since MITB and leading into a massive Wrestlemania match against HHH instead of Taker vs HHH number 3

paddyismaddy

my oh likes orton so if he goes for a jersery shore look he will be a hit with the ladies

Jolt2007

jaykhunter wrote: »

The big question is why does Punk get a massive response in the arena and merchandise, but ratings breakdowns say otherwise? Baffling. It's not like people who go to the arena don't watch wrestling each week as well.

I'd have thought it'd be a case of him having less fans, but more dedicated, older fans with more disposable income and louder voices. That he'll really appeal to the more "smark" fans, but the bigger percentage of channel flickers he just doesn't appeal too. He's the "Community" of the wrestling world :pac: