Falklands War The Second?

thecommietommy

bwatson wrote: »

I completely agree. The US has betrayed and humiliated its apparent closes ally with its stance on the Falklands. Britain doesn't have a potential leader with the strength to break the closest ties it has with America now that they have shown their true colours and motivations (as if they weren't all but on public display already). Get British soldiers away from Afghanistan or any other US led deployment.

If you asked an American who was the US's closest ally they would probably say Canada or maybe Israel. It wouldn't occur to many that the UK considers itself America's closest ally, they would regard the UK as just another European country on good relations with the US.

Let the US do its thing in Iran completely on its own and convince other European nations that they should not offer even moral support, let alone troops and equipment.

Your joking right ? What next, Britain declare war on America

OS119

thecommietommy wrote: »

...If you asked an American who was the US's closest ally they would probably say Canada or maybe Israel. It wouldn't occur to many that the UK considers itself America's closest ally, they would regard the UK as just another European country on good relations with the US....

Not my fault if the average American - according to you - is uninformed.

if you can name any other country the US co-operates with on the design of Ballistic Missiles, and Ballistic Missile Submarines?

if you can name any other country that has such such a close inteeligence relationship with the US?

if you can name another country that the US with which has such a close relationship over the design and construction over its most advanced strike Fighter?

if you can name another country whose personnel the US allows to fly - in combat - its F-117, F-22 and B-2 stealth combat aircraft, as well as its TR-1 and RC-135 RIVET JOINT intelligence gathering aircraft?

westdub

OS119 wrote: »

if you can name another country that the US with which has such a close relationship over the design and construction over its most advanced strike Fighter?

if you can name another country whose personnel the US allows to fly - in combat - its F-117, F-22 and B-2 stealth combat aircraft, as well as its TR-1 and RC-135 RIVET JOINT intelligence gathering aircraft?

Well the F35 is being partly funded by the British and other country's so its only right that they will be involved with its development , The reason that their are RAF crews on RC-135s is because they have bought some and need to fill the gap until they arrive , and the Australian's have had a F22 pilot too.. http://www.f-22raptor.com/news_view.php?nid=417

secondopinion

thecommietommy wrote: »

If you asked an American who was the US's closest ally they would probably say Canada or maybe Israel. It wouldn't occur to many that the UK considers itself America's closest ally, they would regard the UK as just another European country on good relations with the US.

Prove it.

gbee

secondopinion wrote: »

Prove it.

Go over to any Wallmart and spend ten minutes interviewing shoppers in the car park and post your own results. It still would not be definitive, the post about allies to the average American has come up a few times, Canada, Israel, Europe.

During Tony's period of office, how many American TV stations called him the European President?

Dogwatch

gbee wrote: »

Go over to any Wallmart and spend ten minutes interviewing shoppers in the car park and post your own results. It still would not be definitive, the post about allies to the average American has come up a few times, Canada, Israel, Europe.

During Tony's period of office, how many American TV stations called him the European President?

Using your research method, most of the respondents probably would not be able to name any country at all excluding Afganistan and Iraq.
American education does not deal with the wider world as most of their citizens will never need to know about it. If it is outside their home state, it does not exist. Not the fault of the citizen, it is the system.

American media does not cover the wider world unless it affects them directly.

Lemming

iirc, less than 30% of American citizens will ever hold a passport. That includes naturalised citizens who are statistically the most likely group to want to travel for obvious reasons

Jawgap

Militarily, i think you'd have to say the Canadians are the US's closest ally. I base this statement on Canada's role in NORAD and the number of joint exercises they run. To quote Kennedy when he was speaking about Canada:-

"Geography has made us neighbors. History has made us friends. Economics has made us partners. And necessity has made us allies. Those whom nature hath so joined together, let no man put asunder.”

Politically, the issue probably dictates who the closer ally is and who is in power probably influences it significantly too - Republican administrations certainly seem to have a greater affinity for Conservative governments than the Democrats.

It also tends to be quite one sided - look at what happens when there is a friendly fire incident involving US military personnel.

In the context of the Falklands, the Brits may think they have a special relationship with the US, but Argentina is the second largest country in Latin America, the US back yard - add to that their somewhat duplicitous attitude towards empire, and the vestiges of it, and it leads to the conclusion that they would be very reluctant to support the British in any future conflict involving the islands. I think they'd want to stay firmly on the fence.

OS119

Jawgap wrote: »

... I think they'd want to stay firmly on the fence.

oh i agree with you there, the problem however if that for both sides (and, imv, for the freinds of both sides) sitting on the fence isn't enough - sitting on the fence is now viewed as sitting with the other guy.

for the LA countries the US's neutrality is a rebuff to them and their growing status, for the UK - and, imv, the other NATO allies - the US's neutrality says 'we're quite happy for you guys to bleed for us in the deserts of Afghanistan, but if you've got a problem you're on your own'.

its not sustainable - even by trying to do the clever thing and sitting on the fence they will be seen (and in the UK media at least are already being seen) to take sides.

Fratton Fred

If only we had a member of the US military on here......

getz

Jawgap wrote: »

Militarily, i think you'd have to say the Canadians are the US's closest ally. I base this statement on Canada's role in NORAD and the number of joint exercises they run. To quote Kennedy when he was speaking about Canada:-

"Geography has made us neighbors. History has made us friends. Economics has made us partners. And necessity has made us allies. Those whom nature hath so joined together, let no man put asunder.”

Politically, the issue probably dictates who the closer ally is and who is in power probably influences it significantly too - Republican administrations certainly seem to have a greater affinity for Conservative governments than the Democrats.

It also tends to be quite one sided - look at what happens when there is a friendly fire incident involving US military personnel.

In the context of the Falklands, the Brits may think they have a special relationship with the US, but Argentina is the second largest country in Latin America, the US back yard - add to that their somewhat duplicitous attitude towards empire, and the vestiges of it, and it leads to the conclusion that they would be very reluctant to support the British in any future conflict involving the islands. I think they'd want to stay firmly on the fence.

you think so or is that the republican wish list. argentina is five times further away from the US than britain is,5212.8 miles,britain is only 100,000 miles away, also the UK attracts by far the largest US foreign direct investment in the EU,[25 may 2011] and britain has the largest US direct investment holding since the 1990s,that reminds me my wife has asked me to sell off a few of her walmart[ ASDA] shares.

tac foley

Opposite my house here in yUK, next door to me and just down the street, there are about ten or twelve US servicemen and their families. In the local area there are about 800 - 1000 more living on the economy. Within three miles is a base with another 3500 Americans on it, and slightly to the west, one of THE major units in NATO's intelligence and assessment organisation - another 1500 or so US personnel and their families. About half an hour's drive from here - TWO air bases - total on-site of around 15,000 US military personnel, plus many more living out in the economy.

Total US military population of the UK is around 30,000 or so.

And the UK and US are not seriously friends?

Get real, folks.

tac

getz

tac foley wrote: »

Opposite my house here in yUK, next door to me and just down the street, there are about ten or twelve US servicemen and their families. In the local area there are about 800 - 1000 more living on the economy. Within three miles is a base with another 3500 Americans on it, and slightly to the west, one of THE major units in NATO's intelligence and assessment organisation - another 1500 or so US personnel and their families. About half an hour's drive from here - TWO air bases - total on-site of around 15,000 US military personnel, plus many more living out in the economy.

Total US military population of the UK is around 30,000 or so.

And the UK and US are not seriously friends?

Get real, folks.

tac

doing a bit of web searching and the numbers have come up,210,000 americans live in the UK, i do not know if that includes service men and families,and over halve a million 678,0000 britains live in the USA

getz

quote from american president Obama on 25 may 2011,as we approach the 10th anniversary of 9/11 im paticular grateful for the solidarity that the UK has shown to america over the passed decade,from that day to this you have been our closest partner,

OS119

getz wrote: »

quote from american president Obama on 25 may 2011,as we approach the 10th anniversary of 9/11 im paticular grateful for the solidarity that the UK has shown to america over the passed decade,from that day to this you have been our closest partner,

the man makes a good speech - but his Secretary of State, and the senior people under her talk of 'negotiations', and 'the Malvinas'.

i'm not saying we aren't incredibly tight on most issues - and truth be told, i reckon they'd eventually come down on ours in the event of it going 'kinetic' - but everytime they fail to make that clear to the Argentines the Argentines get a little message that maybe they won't, which then feeds into the pro's/cons analysis and makes the political consequences of military action a little more palatable from their point of view.

so, again we have a situation where, had the US been a little clearer about its policy, conflict might have been avoided - it is almost a carbon copy of what happened last time, the US 'ummed and ahhhed', a dodgy state took that as a 'yes', and then the US government went to the position it always held and either went to war against that government or supported other people in going to war against that government.

freddiek

is this a big issue for the UK public?? I would doubt it to be honest..


time to bury grubby little outdated colonialist wars with Thatcher


here's a solution, move the Falklands settlers to Gibraltar, where they would surely have a lot in common with the population of that territory

Sunnyisland

While both the United States and the United Kingdom maintain close relationships with many other nations around the world, the level of cooperation in military planning, execution of military operations, nuclear weapons technology, and intelligence sharing with each other has been described as "unparalleled" among major powers throughout the 20th and early 21st century.Argentina wont Invade the falklands/malvinas they wouldn't have a chance especially now after telling everyone what they might do,Its all a propaganda war from the argentinian president.A morale boosting exercise for her country.

tfitzgerald

I don't think the British army would stand a chance to retake the falkands this time around . The cutbacks and other commitments would prevent that . I was told that when the British discovered the falkands they were uninhabited and the Brits settled them . If that's the case the islands belong to Britain

Fratton Fred

freddiek wrote: »

is this a big issue for the UK public?? I would doubt it to be honest..


time to bury grubby little outdated colonialist wars with Thatcher


here's a solution, move the Falklands settlers to Gibraltar, where they would surely have a lot in common with the population of that territory

Or move the population of Argentina back to Spain, which is just as likely.

Jawgap

realies wrote: »

While both the United States and the United Kingdom maintain close relationships with many other nations around the world, the level of cooperation in military planning, execution of military operations, nuclear weapons technology, and intelligence sharing with each other has been described as "unparalleled" among major powers throughout the 20th and early 21st century.........

If you are going to quote wikipedia at least use inverted commas.....

Cardinal Richelieu

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Or move the population of Argentina back to Spain, which is just as likely.

Or Italy, Germany, Asia, Middle East, Croatia, England, Wales, Ireland, Czech Republic, Bulgaria, Russia and Scandanavia. Argentina has a varied population.

johngalway

freddiek wrote: »

is this a big issue for the UK public?? I would doubt it to be honest..

I think you'd be surprised. I am on a few UK based websites for various work and hobbies and the issue does come up.

Maoltuile

tac foley wrote: »

About half an hour's drive from here - TWO air bases - total on-site of around 15,000 US military personnel, plus many more living out in the economy.

Total US military population of the UK is around 30,000 or so.

And the UK and US are not seriously friends?

Ack. "Unsinkable aircraft carrier" doesn't ring a bell? Unless you think the Americans are there because they love the UK weather

xflyer

If the Argies invade the Americans will support the UK. The Argies know this and so do the British.

There will be no war.

Maoltuile

xflyer wrote: »

If the Argies invade the Americans will support the UK. The Argies know this and so do the British.

There will be no war.

I agree that there's not going to be a "war", because it's a civilian government in Argentina and the talk of war is just BS from the Tory press.

As to the States supporting the UK... well, I don't know why you think that the US would do differently than it did the last time. If you'll recall, many in Reagan's administration were more concerned with helping their friends the various military juntas, and they very reluctantly came over to eventually allowing secret aid to the UK (primarily in allowing the Brits to raid NATO stores for munitions).

xflyer

Realpolitik, Maultouile. An opinion we do have in common. Countries have no conscience. They alway do what's best for them.

It's a cynical world. The US know which country to support when the chips are down.

I have no illusions anymore.

alphasully

freddiek wrote: »

here's a solution, move the Falklands settlers to Gibraltar, where they would surely have a lot in common with the population of that territory

ability to converse in spanish?

getz

alphasully wrote: »

ability to converse in spanish?

from the latest news coming out of buenos airs it seems she has realized she has overstepped the mark,from first banning the falklands flag in her ports,then complaining to the UN that britain has a warship in the area, turning away cruise ships that had stopped in the falklands, telling her business leaders not to buy british[then finding out she would be in direct conflict with the EU] she has now done a U turn and asked the UK if they would let her airliners have direct flights between buenos airs and the falklands,yet she cannot understand that it is not down to the UK to make that decision,its down to the falklands goverment,she would be better off fighting the high corruption in her own country, just remembered she is on a corruption charge herself,

Maoltuile

getz wrote: »

and asked the UK if they would let her airliners have direct flights between buenos airs and the falklands,yet she cannot understand that it is not down to the UK to make that decision,its down to the falklands goverment

Oh, please. The Falklands 'government' wouldn't amount to the smallest County Council in this country.

Buffman

getz wrote: »

from the latest news coming out of buenos airs it seems she has realized she has overstepped the mark,...................just remembered she is on a corruption charge herself,

Sounds like she is making it up as she goes along!