Pet Cats roaming -V- Pet Dogs roaming

WIZE

Hi All

I'm a happy owner of Westies and would never dream of letting my dogs wonder the streets .

when bringing my dogs for a walk I dislike dogs wondering over to my dogs with no sign of the owners .

Where I live there are loads of cats wondering the streets doing what they want when they want .

Do you think its acceptable and responsible as a pet owner to let your Cat or Dog wonder the streets ?

irelandspurs

Do you see many people taking there cat for a walk on a lead.There different animals and can be handled differently.

Ophiopogon

This topic had been done to death and it always ends up in circles.

are you serious

Where I am I have seen probably one maybe two dogs out roaming on there own, probably strays...

In the same period of time I have seen possibly 15 cats, 3 of which are owned by the next door neighbour roaming.

I, as you all know have 2 dogs Buddy and Izzy.

Buddy has cornered a cat on one occasion.. tail wagging wanting to play it was so funny...
Izzy on the other had since the day I brought her home has displayed what I can only discribe as pure hatred for cats. If when she gets a bit older happens to catch a cat god help it!! :eek:

My answer to your question is no absolutely not, it is not acceptable not for a cat or a dog...

irelandspurs

Animals have as much right to be on this planet as do you and i.

WIZE

irelandspurs wrote: »

Do you see many people taking there cat for a walk on a lead.There different animals and can be handled differently.

No I see cats dead at the side of the road every few weeks . I also see lots of dead birds and cat ****e in my Garden but I guess that's acceptable to the owners .

gud4u

irelandspurs wrote: »

Animals have as much right to be on this planet as do you and i.

Ah, but we don't run around peeing and pooping on pavements, jumping up on people to clean our shoes and sniffing each others butts, so I guess cats and dogs need a little more control.:D Maybe some people do.....on a saturday night...whatever you're in to.

WIZE

irelandspurs wrote: »

Animals have as much right to be on this planet as do you and i.

What do you mean by this in relation to this thread

Slksht

garkane wrote: »

If when she gets a bit older happens to catch a cat god help it!! :eek:

You mean God help your dog! If a Dog tried to fight a cat the cat will win every time. They go for the eyes with their claws... nasty!

No it is not acceptable for any pet to roam the streets imo. The "they have as much right..." argument is bull! By that logic it is perfectly acceptable for me to throw a spear at a apassing cat or dog and cook it on my fire. Seriously going to use that as an argument??

Cats are a hard one because by their nature they want to wander around. I do not like this though and would prefer they didn't but realistically, there is not such a solution.

Slksht

WIZE wrote: »

What do you mean by this in relation to this thread

Your original post was much better haha

gigawatt

by law dogs are the responsibility of the owner, cats are not.
dogs should not be allowed to wander as they have a stronger guarding instinct than a cat and would be more likely to attack a human being than a cat would. a cat will generally shy away if approached by a stranger, and if chased by a dog, it will usually try to escape, only standing its ground if cornered.
the part I dont understand is why anyone cares if there are cats wandering in their neighbourhood considering that they keep vermin levels low.
before anyone jumps to conclusions I have both cats and dogs and I adore them equally. They are different species and different rules apply to them based on their behavioral instincts.

are you serious

slkshtIf dogs were let out and did not require a licence (yeah i know not all have one anyway) they would roam a hell of a lot longer and further than any cat would!

pawrick

I definitely don't think it's responsible. My main reason is that it is likely your pet will end up injured through fighting with other cats/dogs or hit by a car and killed, by allowing them roam you are increasing the risk to your pets life.

I also don't think it's acceptable to allow pets to roam - wild animals yes but pets no. Cats are the ones which come in for most stick on this and with good reason given the attitude of some owners who expect their neighbours to accommodate someone else's pet. I think this turns a lot of people against cats.

TskTsk

WIZE wrote: »

Do you think its acceptable and responsible as a pet owner to let your Cat or Dog wonder the streets ?

When I was growing up, the idea of owning a dog but having to keep it locked up all day long would have been a totally alien concept. Dogs haven't changed in 20 years, but society has. Litigation and general intolerance have lead us to the point where people actually consider concepts like a 'cat license', or preventing a cat from roaming to be perfectly rational.

Personally speaking, I'd have no problem with the vast majority of dogs being allowed to wander around their locality, apart from the more aggressive breeds which I do think need to be restricted for obvious safety reasons. If it means I have to scoop up the odd dog poo from my garden or put up with them peeing on my car wheels, I'll suffer it. Dogs were part of neighbourhood life all over this country until the 90s. Nowadays, seeing a dog running around enjoying himself is reason enough to make people stop and stare (and usually give out).

As someone else has already mentioned, we aren't the only species on this planet and we need to bear that in mind.

irelandspurs

pawrick wrote: »

I definitely don't think it's responsible. My main reason is that it is likely your pet will end up injured through fighting with other cats/dogs or hit by a car and killed, by allowing them roam you are increasing the risk to your pets life.

I also don't think it's acceptable to allow pets to roam - wild animals yes but pets no. Cats are the ones which come in for most stick on this and with good reason given the attitude of some owners who expect their neighbours to accommodate someone else's pet. I think this turns a lot of people against cats.

would you like to be locked up 24 hours a day?

Shanao

irelandspurs wrote: »

would you like to be locked up 24 hours a day?

Let's see.

Option A- Locked up 24 hours a day, in a warm house, with food and toys on demand without a care in the world.

Option B- Wander outside risking death and disease. Risk of being mauled by dogs, tortured by kids, run over by cars, poisoned, attacked by other cats, getting trapped, contracting FIP, feline leukemia, or FIV.

Hmm, not exactly a tough decision is it.
And before you ask, yes, I have five cats who live completely indoors. They do get to go outside on leads and next year I will hopefully have saved up enough to build a run for them. And even though they are all indoors, they are also all microchipped just in case. How many people who allow their cats to wander actually have them microchipped?

pawrick

It's either a pet or a wild animal - if you want it to live as nature intended don't get one.

Shano has pointed out compromises which are very practical and offer the best option imo if you do want to properly care for your pet.

TskTsk

Shanao wrote: »

They do get to go outside on leads and next year I will hopefully have saved up enough to build a run for them.

Have you seen any particular runs that you like the look of, or are you getting one custom made?

Shanao

TskTsk wrote: »

Have you seen any particular runs that you like the look of, or are you getting one custom made?

Planning to do it myself with help from a carpenter buddy. Haven't really seen any over here in Ireland, people in the states and even in the UK seem to have a few crowds doing them, but I dont know is there anyone over here who builds them.

Cherry Blossom

TskTsk wrote: »

apart from the more aggressive breeds which I do think need to be restricted for obvious safety reasons.

I assume you mean terriers, hounds and huskies? - these being the only breeds that possess the full range of prey drive instincts (chase, catch and kill). This doesn't translate to aggression though and they only dangerous to their prey. Dogs that are seriously mistreated and neglected by their owners are the ones likely to be a danger to other people. It's not breed specific though it's any dog in this category, people who look after their pets properly also keep them contained so these dangerous dogs you are talking about are part of the group that are not looked after properly, part of which is allowing them to roam the country.

Both my cat and dog are safely contained, the dog is well trained to ignore the local pack of aggressive territorial nuisances (jrt, jrt, pom cross, spaniel, Japanese spitz) when out for her walk. The spitz tried to go for my niece the other day and got to taste my shoe. It's already been delivered to the pound once and been returned to it's owners twice (they live approx 3 miles away), half an hour and he was back and within 2 hours when he was delivered to the pound, I'm going to start bringing my camera from now on when I'm on walks and next stop is the guards.

My dog can't even be let out into her own garden without finding and rolling in several heaps of my neighbours cat's disgusting sticky faeces. No-one should have to put up with crap like this and it's no wonder people eventually loose the plot and take matters into their own hands.

irelandspurs wrote: »

Animals have as much right to be on this planet as do you and i.

Neither species are indigenous to this country and therefore have no business whatsoever roaming the countryside, pets are a man-made creation and therefore it is mankind's responsibility to address the problem, have a bit of cop-on and stop creating messes out of selfishness and arrogance.

TooManyDogs

Absolutely no pet should be allowed to wander, EVER, for any reason. It doesn't matter if they're dog, cat, horse, bird, rabbit, snake, whatever.

It's not responsible, not social and simply not justifiable.

Themadhouse

Shanao wrote: »

Planning to do it myself with help from a carpenter buddy. Haven't really seen any over here in Ireland, people in the states and even in the UK seem to have a few crowds doing them, but I dont know is there anyone over here who builds them.

We were getting a deck done and asked the guy if he would give us a quote on enclosing a 30ftx20ft area which incorporated the deck plus a 2 door system for access into the rest of the garden. We gave him a few ideas that we found online but i dont think he knew it was going to be as time consuming as it was.
It was expensive but we love it!:D We have apple trees and bay leaf trees in it. A herb garden, a water fountain and an overgrown bamboo area.
I think it was more awkward than anything to do. Trying to get the wire over the top was awkward and permission had to gotten to access neighbours gardens. But once we told them what it was for they were like cool, go for it.

Oh and we have 9 indoor cats, 1 dog who is also indoor as i dont agree with housing a dog outside as she is a part of our family as much as the cats are.

Slksht

Themadhouse wrote: »

We were getting a deck done and asked the guy if he would give us a quote on enclosing a 30ftx20ft area which incorporated the deck plus a 2 door system for access into the rest of the garden. We gave him a few ideas that we found online but i dont think he knew it was going to be as time consuming as it was.
It was expensive but we love it!:D We have apple trees and bay leaf trees in it. A herb garden, a water fountain and an overgrown bamboo area.
I think it was more awkward than anything to do. Trying to get the wire over the top was awkward and permission had to gotten to access neighbours gardens. But once we told them what it was for they were like cool, go for it.

Oh and we have 9 indoor cats, 1 dog who is also indoor as i dont agree with housing a dog outside as she is a part of our family as much as the cats are.

Would you have a way of taking photos and uploading to a site to post here? That sounds very interesting and I'd love to see what it looks like

Shanao

Themadhouse wrote: »

We were getting a deck done and asked the guy if he would give us a quote on enclosing a 30ftx20ft area which incorporated the deck plus a 2 door system for access into the rest of the garden. We gave him a few ideas that we found online but i dont think he knew it was going to be as time consuming as it was.
It was expensive but we love it!:D We have apple trees and bay leaf trees in it. A herb garden, a water fountain and an overgrown bamboo area.
I think it was more awkward than anything to do. Trying to get the wire over the top was awkward and permission had to gotten to access neighbours gardens. But once we told them what it was for they were like cool, go for it.

Oh and we have 9 indoor cats, 1 dog who is also indoor as i dont agree with housing a dog outside as she is a part of our family as much as the cats are.

Any chance you could put up pics, would love to see it. Ideally, I'd like to have something like that done up as well with plenty of small trees for them to climb and investigate

angelfire9

Our cat would go demented if he was kep indoors all day so we have fenced off the back garden with springy net stuff (someone here recommended a website but would have cost a fortune) hubby installed what we have now over a week at home it's the plastic wire stuff you see people putting on their walls to train plants to grow up walls (on phone but will try get pics later) basically it is shaped in a L over the top of the wall and if kitty is stupid enough to try and walk on it it springs him back into the garden ( I know that sounds terrible but he only tried it twice and learned his lesson) we built what looks like a cat tree up in the middle of the garden so that kitty can still see what's happening in the neighborhood but cannot get out
This cat tree doubled as a sun bed when the weather was decent for approximately 7 days last year and was used as a bird feeding area in the winter (our cat will not go out if it's cold)

I should add our cat has outside access 24/7 via the utility room window if he wants it but he generally only goes out 30 mins in the morning 2 hours mid day and at night it depends on the weather if it's warm ish and dry he will sit on the tree for hours just watching the world go by but a drop of rain and he is in by the fire

Themadhouse

Taken last yr. It has grown up a bit more since then and has been somewhat tidied.:)

TooManyDogs

That's fantastic!!! Cat heavan

Zapperzy

That's amazing, I'd love something like that.

Themadhouse

Cherry Blossom

Do you actually need the overhead part at that height? :eek:

Waitsian

That's fabulous - can I steal your idea?

Discodog

These arguments are pretty pointless. There will never be legislation regarding roaming cats. The vast majority of owners will not build runs - many would perceive it as cruelty to keep their cat "caged". There is enough difficulty with persuading cat owners to neuter - my neighbour who is a teacher refuses to do so because "it is unnatural" :mad:

So the best advice is to chill & accept that the roaming cats are here to stay.

meoklmrk91

Dogs should never be left roaming, they get themselves into too much trouble and are at a risk to being stolen, I would never leave my dog out alone without supervision and I think people who do are insane.

As for cats, I personally believe that all depends on where you live, when I got my kitten I was living in an apartment, it was a high traffic area and there was lots of dogs. She was only allowed out when I brought her and my dog out, I would play with the dog and she got a sniff around and chase birds. I even taught her to come when called and would bring her in along with the dog. I then moved back home to my parents house to save for college, where my older cat still lived. It's a nice rural estate, low traffic and plenty of places to hide, plus there are no roaming dogs, so I slowly started putting her outside, she chooses to spend most of her time inside though so thats fine. Where as my older cat who is 8 prefers to spend most of her time outside and usually only comes in to sleep and eat.

The Sweeper

Slksht wrote: »

You mean God help your dog! If a Dog tried to fight a cat the cat will win every time. They go for the eyes with their claws... nasty!

I wish that was actually true.

It isn't. A cat hasn't got a snowballs against a serious dog, even a small serious dog. They don't 'go for the eyes', they panic and simply claw and bite whatever comes within reach, and most dogs in drive (meaning all riled up because they're attacking) will have shaken and injured or killed the cat before they even feel the cat's retaliation.

I keep my cats on my own property using cat-proof fencing. A few years ago, in our old house, my neighbour's dog dug our fenceline at the back of the yard and, unbeknownst to me, dug enough of a gap that one of my cats squeezed under the fence to explore. It started to lash rain while he was in the other yard and he ran under something to shelter, as opposed to running back indoors which the rest of my cats did.

While he was AWOL, he was attacked by a dog. I'm not sure if it was my neighbour's dog, but I think it probably was just because I can't see my cat having managed to get out of the neighbour's yard and further afield - plus he came home that night, near midnight, of his own accord.

He had a puncture wound in his groin, half an inch from his urethra, that was about an inch worth of a tear in the skin and another inch deep. It was a clean puncture - he was so lucky. The outside of his haunch was scalped in a long strip, and the inside of the same leg and across his belly was dark purple with bruising. His rear claws were thick with coagulated blood - not his - and we think the dog went for him, he rolled onto his back and put his claws up, she grabbed him and he bunny-kicked with his rear legs and we think he got her down the roof of her mouth which is why she let him go. We asked the neighbour to check her dog for injuries but she was too busy telling us her dog wouldn't have hurt a fly so we gave up.

Thankfully my cat recovered - he needed an anti-inflammatory painkiller and an antiobiotic, the wounds were shaved and allowed to heal themselves, the puncture was left open and let heal from the inside out. It took about 10 days for him to recover physically, and about a solid year for him to get back to his 'old self' in terms of being a happy go lucky cat again.

And that was one incident, from one escape, for a cat never normally allowed to roam. I dunno what I could expect if I let them roam freely...

irelandspurs

Some cats need there own space you know.

Themadhouse

mod9maple wrote: »

That's fabulous - can I steal your idea?

Lol, yes you can. :-)

Themadhouse

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Do you actually need the overhead part at that height? :eek:

8ft was recommended on all the sites we looked at. The patio doors open onto the deck and the roof is just over the doors. Def wouldn't want it lower than that around the deck as its an area we use. We asked the neighbours if they minded but it doesn't block out sunlight or anything from their gardens. Plus it gives the cats good climbing ground. It's no taller than some of the sheds on the road and a lot of the trees in gardens.

ppink

Can I ask then who is responsible for a neighbours cat coming into my garden and injuring my dogs? I am sure this will happen when they catch him.

irelandspurs

ppink wrote: »

Can I ask then who is responsible for a neighbours cat coming into my garden and injuring my dogs? I am sure this will happen when they catch him.

grumpymunster

Seems to me the main problem people have with cats roaming is pooping in their garden. I find it difficult to believe that people would compare cats and dogs regarding this. I cannot recall reading an article reporting people being attacked and injured by a cat unproved, yet this happened to a friend of mine two weeks ago by two dogs. Worse this was the second time these dogs were involved in an attack in less than a week.

What next do we all go on a bird purge because of bird poop on the car or the window?

A programme of neutering would be better, in the past year or so we have taken five cats to the vet to get snipped as they are ferrel and seem to like hanging out in our garden. The problem is this gets expensive and there seems to be no charity that we could find that will do it even at a reduced cost.

As for roaming they are not a danger to society so why not I say.

Discodog

The Sweeper wrote: »

It isn't. A cat hasn't got a snowballs against a serious dog, even a small serious dog.

I witnessed a Jack Russell killing a cat - it took seconds.

kylith

grumpymunster wrote: »

What next do we all go on a bird purge because of bird poop on the car or the window?

That's not comparable at all. Birds are wild creatures and don't belong to anyone, cats do, and their owners should be responsible for them. I have enough to do cleaning up after my dogs, it's not my job to clean up after other people's pets too.

You can bet that if someone's upstairs neighbour kept budgies on their balcony and the sh*t rained onto theirs they'd be complaining about it just as much as we complain about cats.

angelfire9

Discodog wrote: »

The Sweeper wrote: »

It isn't. A cat hasn't got a snowballs against a serious dog, even a small serious dog.

I witnessed a Jack Russell killing a cat - it took seconds.

JRT's can be lethal hunters

It does depend on the cat though my little psycho used to attack the neighbours dog before we installed the wiring that keeps him in
And the neighbours 4 doors down have a yorkie that got into our back garden one day when we were putting out the bins and our kitty mauled him

doctor evil

Curiosity killed the cat. If there is trouble a cat will find it. I refuse to believe that cats somehow have more 'street smarts' than dogs.

PCros

doctor evil wrote: »

Curiosity killed the cat. If there is trouble a cat will find it. I refuse to believe that cats somehow have more 'street smarts' than dogs.

Put a cat and a dog out on its own and I would put my money on the cat to survive ten times over.

gud4u

Anyone in the country area should lock their dogs up really well now as lambs are going out soon. There has been a lot of sheep attacks out my way. One Jrt did a lot of damage and a GSD killed over 10 sheep on a local farmer. I have both breeds and they are locked up tightly so as not to do that, but also to protect them from an angry farmer who would have every right to protect his sheep.

BTW, Cats wouldn't do that..

homerhop

gud4u wrote: »

BTW, Cats wouldn't do that..

Toxoplasmosis

Toxoplasmosis is caused by Toxoplasma Gondii and spreads by a different method within the flock. It is not so much a sheep to sheep disease but requires cats and infected mice to complete the life cycle. Purchased sheep may suffer toxoplasmosis abortion if they have come from a farm where they have never encountered the parasite, but purchased ewes are unlikely to be responsible for any outbreaks within a flock. In general the source of the infection will be cat droppings in either the feed, roughage or pasture. Non pregnant sheep that become infected are generally immune for life but where the infection takes place while the ewes is pregnant it may result in abortion or weak lambs being born.

gud4u

homerhop wrote: »

Toxoplasmosis

Toxoplasmosis is caused by Toxoplasma Gondii and spreads by a different method within the flock. It is not so much a sheep to sheep disease but requires cats and infected mice to complete the life cycle. Purchased sheep may suffer toxoplasmosis abortion if they have come from a farm where they have never encountered the parasite, but purchased ewes are unlikely to be responsible for any outbreaks within a flock. In general the source of the infection will be cat droppings in either the feed, roughage or pasture. Non pregnant sheep that become infected are generally immune for life but where the infection takes place while the ewes is pregnant it may result in abortion or weak lambs being born.

Gross, did not know this....that's what i've learnt today.

I meant cats wouldn't chase the sheep:)

doctor evil

What about a big breed of cat like a Maine Coon? Is there a chance they could go after a lamb.

tin79

I think we should also think about roaming pigeons here. Both homing and racing pigeons are free to roam the skys over peoples gardens and could defacate into sand pits or flower beds. I saw on a episode of House that this can potentially cause disease.

Are owners of these animals also iresponsible? I wonder.

tin79

TooManyDogs wrote: »

Absolutely no pet should be allowed to wander, EVER, for any reason. It doesn't matter if they're dog, cat, horse, bird, rabbit, snake, whatever.

It's not responsible, not social and simply not justifiable.

I meant to quote this post above.