Boithre Iarainn tonight TG4

roundymac

New railway series, tonight @ 8 on TG4. Its about the WEST CORK LINE tonight. Unfortunetly it's it Irish.

Bogger77

according to my sky plus app, it'll be on again on Sunday evening

and it being TG4, it'll prob have subtitles

roundymac

I hate subtitles, you end feeling as though you have not watch the programme properly.

parsi

There was plenty of english spoken in it.

Some interesting footage but the usual crap about Cork being special boy "I thought I was in heaven".

I didn't like the reconstruction scenes.

More of a nostalgia programme.

dowlingm

parsi wrote: »

the usual crap about Cork being special boy "I thought I was in heaven".

Crap?? Pure true more like

parsi

dowlingm wrote: »

parsi wrote: »

the usual crap about Cork being special boy "I thought I was in heaven".

Crap?? Pure true more like

Bah !

Losty Dublin

parsi wrote: »

There was plenty of english spoken in it.

Some interesting footage but the usual crap about Cork being special boy "I thought I was in heaven".

I didn't like the reconstruction scenes.

More of a nostalgia programme.

I sometimes think that Cork people secretly wished the West Cork system would be closed so that they could moan about how good it was when it was open.

roundymac

Losty Dublin wrote: »

I sometimes think that Cork people secretly wished the West Cork system would be closed so that they could moan about how good it was when it was open.

Not funny or true.:mad:

dmcronin

Losty Dublin wrote: »

I sometimes think that Cork people secretly wished the West Cork system would be closed so that they could moan about how good it was when it was open.

What gives you that idea??

It was one of the (very) few lines where people had some bottle to fight its closure.
Harcourt st line closed without so much a whimper.

Judgement Day

dmcronin wrote: »

What gives you that idea??

It was one of the (very) few lines where people had some bottle to fight its closure.
Harcourt st line closed without so much a whimper.

I agree about the West Cork line protests but there was also a lot of criticism of the Harcourt Street closure and suggestions of ways of saving money on its operation. The main difference being that people living in middle class/upper middle class areas are less likely to man the barricades or march on the Dail than their country cousins. Anyway it would have made no difference to Todd Andrews with his staunchly anti-British/Protestant views (Foxrock solicitors etc). Perhaps he closed the West Cork for the same reason - to get at the Protestants in Bandon.

steamengine

Recall years back, heading to West Cork by road and seeing the various viaducts associated with the WCR, including the prominent Chetwynd on the outskirts of Cork City. There was an interesting story doing the rounds in Cork years back (and perhaps still is) about this viaduct. It's to do with the sport of road bowling. A famous road bowler is supposed to have lobbed bowls up and over the viaduct.

Back in the late sixties I remember walking part of the alignment out past Turner's Cross and I seem to recall the tracks were still in position and in quite good nick.

An interesting programme about the history of this line - it should be up on the player shortly, so I can take a closer look at the old footage. No 90 featured a few times and some other locomotive also.

roundymac

steamengine wrote: »

Recall years back, heading to West Cork by road and seeing the various viaducts associated with the WCR, including the prominent Chetwynd on the outskirts of Cork City. There was an interesting story doing the rounds in Cork years back (and perhaps still is) about this viaduct. It's to do with the sport of road bowling. A famous road bowler is supposed to have lobbed bowls up and over the viaduct.

Back in the late sixties I remember walking part of the alignment out past Turner's Cross and I seem to recall the tracks were still in position and in quite good nick.

An interesting programme about the history of this line - it should be up on the player shortly, so I can take a closer look at the old footage. No 90 featured a few times and some other locomotive also.

Mick Barry (AFAIK) was the name of the bowler, and he did loft it with a 28oz bowl. Yes it was the late sixties maybe even 1970/1971 before the last rails were lifted.

Losty Dublin

dmcronin wrote: »

What gives you that idea??

It was one of the (very) few lines where people had some bottle to fight its closure.
Harcourt st line closed without so much a whimper.

It's what's called a joke. Cork People should try them out sometime

Losty Dublin

Judgement Day wrote: »

I agree about the West Cork line protests but there was also a lot of criticism of the Harcourt Street closure and suggestions of ways of saving money on its operation. The main difference being that people living in middle class/upper middle class areas are less likely to man the barricades or march on the Dail than their country cousins. Anyway it would have made no difference to Todd Andrews with his staunchly anti-British/Protestant views (Foxrock solicitors etc). Perhaps he closed the West Cork for the same reason - to get at the Protestants in Bandon.

As if there were any left in Bandon!

The West Cork went as, like most lines in Ireland, it simply didn't have the numbers to keep it going economically. A return day trip to Cork from Bantry, even after AEC railcars and A Class locos were tried on the line and found to speed things up, was still as good as impossible given it's poor build while it's freight traffic was chiefly local point to point traffic, with little long distance goods to speak off. Certainly, better timetabling could have addressed some of it's passenger numbers but with the then legal expectation for CIE to pay it's way, subventing lines with no reasonable or special trade on them was out of the question.

dmcronin

Losty Dublin wrote: »

It's what's called a joke. Cork People should try them out sometime

You know what, you should try standup sometime. Comic genius.

Partizan

Losty Dublin wrote: »

As if there were any left in Bandon!

The West Cork went as, like most lines in Ireland, it simply didn't have the numbers to keep it going economically. A return day trip to Cork from Bantry, even after AEC railcars and A Class locos were tried on the line and found to speed things up, was still as good as impossible given it's poor build while it's freight traffic was chiefly local point to point traffic, with little long distance goods to speak off. Certainly, better timetabling could have addressed some of it's passenger numbers but with the then legal expectation for CIE to pay it's way, subventing lines with no reasonable or special trade on them was out of the question.

The WCR was badly built much like the WRC. Poor speeds and the advent of the car sealed its fate. if it hadn't closed in 1961, it would not have survived the 1967 or the 1976 culls. That said, parts of it could and should have been saved and been used for Cork City commuter traffic. Bandon - Cork and Kinsale - Cork should have been saved, the rest chopped.

Then again Todd Andrews shut perfectly viable railway lines, Waterford - Tramore, Dublin - Navan and Harcourt Street to Bray lines.

Losty Dublin

Partizan wrote: »

The WCR was badly built much like the WRC. Poor speeds and the advent of the car sealed its fate. if it hadn't closed in 1961, it would not have survived the 1967 or the 1976 culls. That said, parts of it could and should have been saved and been used for Cork City commuter traffic. Bandon - Cork and Kinsale - Cork should have been saved, the rest chopped.

Then again Todd Andrews shut perfectly viable railway lines, Waterford - Tramore, Dublin - Navan and Harcourt Street to Bray lines.

Waterford and Tramore was the only viable line of those three you mentioned.

Dublin-Navan via Clonsilla saw the very occasional freight train for it's last years of operation, it's passenger traffic went a long time ago before then. Indeed JD may recall one article in one of his magazine papers that recalled former Inspector Callery and a trip on the branch to pick up scrap wagons with a G class that describes in full detail the dilapidated and near abandoned nature of the line! The lines main problem was that it didn't serve any towns of note en route, Dunboyne excepted; it also suffered from the fact that it was a through route to nowhere of mass unlike the other mainlines out of Dublin.

The line to Harcourt Street sits in a commuter heartland today but when the line closed it traveled through farmland from Dundrum onwards to Bray though a few small villages outside of Dublin. Back then, the GSR and latterly CIE did everything they could do to cut costs and to increase traffic on the line with view to saving it; electric signaling, the introduction of AEC railcars, the Drumm cars and the elimination of the loco shed at Harcourt street all were tried but in vein. The choice was to close the inland or outland route so it was on paper a no brainer. Even when the line closed, it raised little in the way of ire from the traveling public, they generally being happier with the replacement bus services on routes 46 and 86. The urban growth that LUAS serves today only took off in the mid 60's and then through private development; had it have held on for a few more years it then would have possibly have lasted on. Brian McAonghusa's first book on the line goes into some detail without getting too bogged down on number crunching.

Back to the West Cork again, it's lack of a decent direct link to Glanmire Road station was another factor that led to it's closure. That said, I reckon that like the Harcourt Street line, it would have had a better chance of staying open as the 60's went on given the urban expansion of Cork.

roundymac

Back to the West Cork again, it's lack of a decent direct link to Glanmire Road station was another factor that led to it's closure. That said, I reckon that like the Harcourt Street line, it would have had a better chance of staying open as the 60's went on given the urban expansion of Cork.[/QUOTE]

Agreed, as you say those lines were not viable, but the indecent haste with which lines were pulled up was a disgrace. All they had to do run a spray train once a year to preserve them but that did not suit the government mentality at the time and possibly even the present time.
Road traffic is where the state derives a lot of revenue, excise duty and vat on petrol and diesel, vrt and road tax on cars, vat on tyres etc, not to mention employment of lorry drivers. You may say that freight train is good for enviroment, but a freight train pulling 18 40' containers needs only a driver, but if it was road freight it would take 18 drivers to do it in the same time. So you can see in those days why the railways lost out to the roads.
Sorry, I forgot tosay that it was fashionable to use the roads back in those days, showing off your car or lorry, and worse still, it made you seem modern.:cool:

Itssoeasy

But all the lines mentioned were closed but by and large fhe rail corridor was left in place even if the tracks were lifted. The WCR embankments given over to farmers and were ploughed alway and thinks built over it which always made me wonder why they did it so fast compared to other closed lines.

The connection between Albert quay and kent(glanmire road) was grand in the fifties and sixties but I don't think it would work nowadays.

Losty Dublin

Itssoeasy wrote: »

But all the lines mentioned were closed but by and large fhe rail corridor was left in place even if the tracks were lifted. The WCR embankments given over to farmers and were ploughed alway and thinks built over it which always made me wonder why they did it so fast compared to other closed lines.

Quite often this came down to political pressure. In some cases, CIE were under instruction to not operate lines once adequate road links were in place to replace rail services. Once these were in place there was no need for the line in the eyes of the politicians so the lines were closed and abandonment orders were made.

The speed of distribution of the lands after abandonment often depended on the lay and the nature of the land. Much of Cork or Meath or Wexford is healthy farmland and it shifted fast it was was desirable. Other pockets of other lines such as the West Clare or CDR and many of the bridges we see around the Country today were white elephants and are still owned by CIE to this day, still awaiting any bidder. Other lines are less easy to wind up than some given complex legal issues and ownerships; the County Donegal network was only formally abandoned in 1980, 30 years after it's closure!

Lastly, something to stress is that land was never given back or distributed to farmers. In all cases it was sold to adjacent landowners; often at a cheap rate and maybe even for peppercorn fees but never ever given.

corktina

steamengine wrote: »

.

Back in the late sixties I remember walking part of the alignment out past Turner's Cross and I seem to recall the tracks were still in position and in quite good nick.

.

I beleive that the track out to the junction and back into the Capwell was in position at this time as you say in order to shift oil tankers with fuel for the buses into the Capwell Bus Depot as it had become.This went on quite late and probably up to the time they closed the Cork City Railway.

roundymac

No Capwell was long gone,

corktina

I dion't think you are right. I distinctly remember reading about when the track was ripped up on the stub into Capwell and that was quite late on, bearing in mind my involvement with Irish railways only started in about 1978 (CCR closed 1976)

roundymac

I lived in Turners x, Mercier Park to be precise, the line went pass the end of the back garden, I was never aware of any spur to capwell. The only line that i know that came from Capwell was the Macroom railway. I have a book on it some where, I'll try and dig it out.

corktina

thats the line Im talking about. Fuel tankers were shunted on to it from the Bandon line,.to service the bus depot.

I've a vivid memory of a report with pictures of it being ripped up (it went under a bridge) and I seem to recall there were still tankers there out of use and there might have been a fire too.

Judgement Day

There was a connection between the CBSCR and Cork & Macroom at Ballyphehane but I thought it was long gone by the time of closure - I used to have all Colm Creedon's books where the undoubtedly all the info could be found. Perhaps Steve Johnson's Railway Atlas & Gazetteer? Better still I'll ask Joe St.Leger.




Joe tells me he was never down the line into Capwell but thinks the connection was gone at the time of closure. Incidentally, he tells me that a picture of the last 'railtour' on the West Cork in 1965, which reached the buffer stop at the bridge by the South Infirmary, was in the Examiner recently.

corktina

I kind of guessed you'd be the one to find the answer JD.

Having thought about it overnight, I seem to recall the line was blocked at the bridge but some track was still in situ .Presumably it was blocked whern the South Link was built on the Bandon branch out of Albert Square (oh Kath, Kath....Nah Ricky..yes Banchor)

I fund a reference to oil tanks delivering fuel last night but couldn't find a date so I know it happened but not how late.

dmcronin

corktina wrote: »

I beleive that the track out to the junction and back into the Capwell was in position at this time as you say in order to shift oil tankers with fuel for the buses into the Capwell Bus Depot as it had become.This went on quite late and probably up to the time they closed the Cork City Railway.

CCR closed in 1974-ish. Would think the Capwell spur would have been lifted with the lifting of the main system. AFAIK you could travel a wee bit up the WCR post-closure as far as the first or second overbridge out of Albert Qy while it was used for goods depot.
There's a pic of Ballyphehane jct in the IRRS red Cork Railways book taken around 50's/60's. Not much there, all open countryside then.

corktina

dammit I shall have to search all my books now to find this.... I can't have dreamt it up and it ties in with the original "mid sixties rails at Turners Cross" thing

roundymac

The spur would have joined at Half Moon Bridge which is the last road bridge on the back Douglas Road. To the best of my knowledge it would have run at an angle to the back of Colaiste Chriost Ri and Capwell Ave. This would have been long gone in the late fifties I would say. Most of the alinement for Macroom was got rid of fairly fast. The only bits that remained were behind the western part of the Tramore Rd, from Casy's cross to where the Barrs gaa complex is. Back to that Capwell spur, if you go to the juction of Capwell Ave and the Back Douglas Rd, stand facing up the Capwell Rd, just to your left you will see what remains of the spur. Of course it's filled in so you will have to use your imagination, but you can just make out the beginnings of the alinement.

dmcronin

As an aside, noticed driving around Togher the other day, a scout hall with a set of CB&SCR stone mileposts in the yard. Think it may have a Walter McGrath tie-in.

I did get a kick out of the TG4 documentary, re locals burning a Todd Andrews effigy in Skibb!

steamengine

roundymac wrote: »

I lived in Turners x, Mercier Park to be precise, the line went pass the end of the back garden, I was never aware of any spur to capwell. The only line that i know that came from Capwell was the Macroom railway. I have a book on it some where, I'll try and dig it out.

Referring to my recollection of the rails being in place, my best recall is that it was mid 1966. The location where we walked the line, just to the South of Turner's Cross would have originally been the Ballyphehane embankment as far as I can make it out from info on the net and Google maps.

roundymac

That sounds like the Macroom railway which seperated before what is now the Kinsale roundabout., and ran alongside the Tramore river.

steamengine

roundymac wrote: »

That sounds like the Macroom railway which seperated before what is now the Kinsale roundabout., and ran alongside the Tramore river.

I estimate it to be here (green arrow). Does that make any sense ? In any event I certainly would like to know which line we were on. Definitely an embankment, and it's hazy now but I think it was also double track. Anyway we were more interested in the two 'birds' we bumped into also walking the track. Rail enthusiasm went on the back burner that day.

http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=51.878981,-8.466339&hl=en&num=1&t=m&z=14

dowlingm

If I read the OSI 25" map right on OSI mapviewer at 1:5000 zoom and the overlay function, it looks like the Macroom railway was separate from the Bandon and South Coast to a terminus at what is now Capwell Depot.

corktina

yes sorry I assumed everyone knew that. This was the case from a few months after the Macroom line opened (it originally shared the bandon line station) until amalgamation with the exception of a period around WW1 when the Government forced a connection on them, which was promptly ripped up after the period of control ended. The Macroom trains reverted to Albert St after amagamation but the Capwell branch was retained to take diesel fuel tankers in to what had becoem the bus depot.

BowWow

Bóithre Iarainn
The Western Rail Corridor: The re-opening of the line from Limerick to Galway in 2010 was seen as a triumph by campaigners for the Western Rail Corridor, but this same line once stretched North West all the way to Collooney in Sligo and was the setting for much drama both in real-life as in art- including the filming of the Quiet Man train scene near Tuam.

dowlingm

The series isn't that new - turns out there were episodes in 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yROJyRTcjoc

Interesting that this episode like the West Cork one mentions a botched IRA ambush.

101sean

I have the previous series on sky+, only watched the WCR episode so far but I think the rest covers narrow gauge.

dowlingm

I get the feeling the people behind this project are dying to sell it to PBS or something. The nostalgia factor is cloying, including the obligatory mention of the Quiet Man and the name drop of Yeats.

L1011

dowlingm wrote: »

I get the feeling the people behind this project are dying to sell it to PBS or something. The nostalgia factor is cloying, including the obligatory mention of the Quiet Man and the name drop of Yeats.

A lot of RTE/TG4 shows recently have clear marks of being made for export. Irish episodes of the Secret Millionaire giving repeated details of the geographical location of Dundalk, Clondalkin, etc.

dmcronin

dowlingm wrote: »

I get the feeling the people behind this project are dying to sell it to PBS or something. The nostalgia factor is cloying, including the obligatory mention of the Quiet Man and the name drop of Yeats.

The large percentage of subtitling may be an impediment to that, esp. if intended for a US audience, unless they dub it.

L1011

dmcronin wrote: »

The large percentage of subtitling may be an impediment to that, esp. if intended for a US audience, unless they dub it.

PBS are not overly scared of subtitles. Every other network is though.

Judgement Day

The latest episode featuring my beloved Cavan & Leitrim is up on the TG4 Player now and what a motley crew of Republicans they rounded up for it! The revisionism would put Eoghan Harris to shame - I'm surprised Patrick Flanagan allowed himself to appear on it. Incidentally, I got a mention (not by name though) - towards the very end - from the 'proprietor' at Dromod.

Losty Dublin

Judgement Day wrote: »

Incidentally, I got a mention (not by name though) - towards the very end - from the 'proprietor' at Dromod.

What did he do; did he name one of the submarines after you?

corktina

or half a milk float?

Seanchai

roundymac wrote: »

Unfortunetly [sic] it's it [sic] Irish.

:rolleyes:. Chip. Shoulder.

minstral

Hi,
I know this thread is very old but im chancing my arm to see if it is possible to watch the episode of the cavan leitrim railway anywhere? My grandparents were stationmasters in Fenagh on this line and Im looking for any info or pictures i can find of it.
Thanks!

robclay26

minstral wrote: »

Hi,
I know this thread is very old but im chancing my arm to see if it is possible to watch the episode of the cavan leitrim railway anywhere? My grandparents were stationmasters in Fenagh on this line and Im looking for any info or pictures i can find of it.
Thanks!

Check eiretrains. Great website.

Eiretrains

Sorry I don't have anything on Fenagh. It was one of the smaller halts between Ballinamore/Dromod, it didn't get a lot attention from photographers back in the day, even though the Cavan & Leitrim has been well documented.

gobnaitolunacy

minstral wrote: »

Hi,
I know this thread is very old but im chancing my arm to see if it is possible to watch the episode of the cavan leitrim railway anywhere? My grandparents were stationmasters in Fenagh on this line and Im looking for any info or pictures i can find of it.
Thanks!

I *think* there might be one of Fenagh in the Irish Narrow Gauge book (vol 1 Cork to Cavan.) the one with the green hardback cover.