Malazan Book of the Fallen Series

keane2097

Thargor wrote: »

I had a look ages ago but it seemed like something someone doing a thesis on the series in University would be reading, very in depth chapter by chapter analysis, I suppose I should set myself a goal of reading a few of them a day at work until I get to the end, Malazan is too good a series to give up on. Thanks for the reminder.

I don't think a recap would have much of a point for this particular series without being pretty long, they're so dense that a foolscap page on each book would be as good as tits on a bull realistically.

Raging_Ninja

nesf wrote: »

Mostly I miss the gritty military fantasy though. It all started going a bit insane when he started introducing modern or early modern military tactics and structures into a medieval/classical fantasy setting. It's nit picking but when he talks in terms of modern command structures breaking down to 5-10 man units in this setting it's really hard to suspend disbelief. In a melee you really don't work at that level and crossbows and explosives don't change much, sharpers are just better pilums basically.

The Roman legions at the lowest level were divided into squads of 8-10 men, called a contubernium, so having squads of troops in a medieval fantasy setting is fairly reasonable.

But yeah, sometimes he did make the sword-swinging a bit modern. The loose-order of the Malazan marines make kind of a bit of sense if you think of them as skirmishers or light troops, while the medium and heavy troops fought in a shield wall.

nesf

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

The Roman legions at the lowest level were divided into squads of 8-10 men, called a contubernium, so having squads of troops in a medieval fantasy setting is fairly reasonable.

But yeah, sometimes he did make the sword-swinging a bit modern. The loose-order of the Malazan marines make kind of a bit of sense if you think of them as skirmishers or light troops, while the medium and heavy troops fought in a shield wall.

To the best of my knowledge Contubernium didn't function as independent units, small semi-independent squads of men is a very modern concept in organised warfare that's mostly a result of the amount of ranged firepower such a unit can carry. The Marines being skirmishers would work fine, he doesn't write them that way though. The unit was created for amphibious landings (!!!) and operate independently similar to a rifle platoon much of the time, except a fifth of the size?

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed his military writing, I just found some of it jarringly modern in concept.

Tar.Aldarion

I'd say that was one of the more believable things in it to be fair , at least I can imagine commanders in that world evolving better warfare practices than our history, why not. Who knows why it evolved, possibly better to be in such small groups due to magic? Or as you say the random amphibious landings where it might be good to have small specialized teams doing their thing independently.

fenris

When you can drop units in using the Moranth or warrens it makes a bit more sense to have independent functional units that can operate away from the chain of command for extended periods

nesf

fenris wrote: »

When you can drop units in using the Moranth or warrens it makes a bit more sense to have independent functional units that can operate away from the chain of command for extended periods

We don't see either used for such a purpose though. Whiskeyjack's squads are dropped individually sure but that's for infiltration. In battle we see larger units being moved en-masse by Moranth which is a logical use for them. The Moranth are mostly used for logistical purposes, which again makes sense. Warrens again, aren't used with regular troops to split them up and spread them out. Troops are moved in large blocks if ever.

The thing that bothered me over and over was, why don't we see the Moranth doing bombing runs more often? We're told they've munitions specially designed for the purpose.

Tar.Aldarion

nesf wrote: »

We don't see either used for such a purpose though. Whiskeyjack's squads are dropped individually sure but that's for infiltration. In battle we see larger units being moved en-masse by Moranth which is a logical use for them. The Moranth are mostly used for logistical purposes, which again makes sense. Warrens again, aren't used with regular troops to split them up and spread them out. Troops are moved in large blocks if ever.

The thing that bothered me over and over was, why don't we see the Moranth doing bombing runs more often? We're told they've munitions specially designed for the purpose.

EDIT: don't read unless you've read every book

The Gold elite infantry Moranth used to be the dominant force in their society. After the crimson guard defeated 5 legions of them the silvers (mages) rose to power. Munitions were designed to kill mages historically (in the Moranth), they were then restricted to being an export item only by the silvers. If they were not so clan-based and were a typical nation wanted expansion and so forth they would play a very different role also. Especially as they have more powerful munitions they won't even trade, along with magic based ones.

keane2097

Should really mention what book if your entire post is just a wall of spoilers Tara!

nesf

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

The Gold elite infantry Moranth used to be the dominant force in their society. After the crimson guard defeated 5 legions of them the silvers (mages) rose to power. Munitions were designed to kill mages historically (in the Moranth), they were then restricted to being an export item only by the silvers. If they were not so clan-based and were a typical nation wanted expansion and so forth they would play a very different role also. Especially as they have more powerful munitions they won't even trade, along with magic based ones.

I was referring to cussers.

nesf

keane2097 wrote: »

Should really mention what book if your entire post is just a wall of spoilers Tara!

Definitely, I've read none of that. I don't mind but some might.

Tar.Aldarion

Sorry about that I cant remember what came from where. I know some was from an AMA.
EDIT: Looked it up, I haven't even read the books that stuff comes from sorry! Damn you Erickson interviews.

what do you mean you were talking about cussers?

nesf

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Sorry about that I cant remember what came from where. I know some was from an AMA.
EDIT: Looked it up, I haven't even read the books that stuff comes from sorry! Damn you Erickson interviews.

what do you mean you were talking about cussers?

Cussers are referred to in Fiddler's memories as being meant to be dropped from Quorzl and himself and Hedge had to find a way of using them with ground based troops.

Edit: Other fancier ammunition is only hinted at or partially revealed in what I've read of Erikson's books. I imagine there's more detail in ICE's?

Tar.Aldarion

Yeah it's in the ICE books, I just saw it in an interview as far as I know of. I must get around to reading those, I only was about 50 pages into return of the crimson guard when my parents decided it would be a good idea to throw the book in a bin with old books. :S

hadoken13

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Yeah it's in the ICE books, I just saw it in an interview as far as I know of. I must get around to reading those, I only was about 50 pages into return of the crimson guard when my parents decided it would be a good idea to throw the book in a bin with old books. :S

The ICE books have started to grow on me - it will be interesting to see how he wraps up all the loose ends in the new Assail book due out next month.

fenris

I like the ICE books, you just have to be careful of when you read them relative to the main series otherwise it is very spoilerish

hadoken13

I didn't read any of the ICE books until I was finished the Erikson ones - if I was to read them all again I would most definitely read the books in chronological order.

DaveDaRave

I heard deadhouse gates was like the best book but 1/3rd the way through not enjoying it as much as gardens of the moon. which is a strange opinion to have judging fromt he tonnes of threads of read on the series.

keane2097

DaveDaRave wrote: »

I heard deadhouse gates was like the best book but 1/3rd the way through not enjoying it as much as gardens of the moon. which is a strange opinion to have judging fromt he tonnes of threads of read on the series.

Wouldn't have been my favourite at all tbh although it's the second half/last third of Deadhouse Gates where it explodes really.

DaveDaRave

keane2097 wrote: »

Wouldn't have been my favourite at all tbh although it's the second half/last third of Deadhouse Gates where it explodes really.

cool.
i guess i just miss anonmander rake.

Zapp Brannigan

Finished The Crippled God for the third time last night. Love how well Erikson managed to wrap up most things.

On to Blood and Bone and then Assail.

keane2097

DaveDaRave wrote: »

cool.
i guess i just miss anonmander rake.

Coltaine will fill that void once he gets going.

ancapailldorcha

Coltaine's awesome.

Nearly finished Memories of Ice. Enjoyed it more than Deadhouse Gates. I might need to reread the latter.

Whiskeyjack's death was horrible. Why didn't he get his damned leg checked out?!

keane2097

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Coltaine's awesome.

Nearly finished Memories of Ice. Enjoyed it more than Deadhouse Gates. I might need to reread the latter.

Whiskeyjack's death was horrible. Why didn't he get his damned leg checked out?!

Never had such a physical reaction to something happening in a book as when I read that.

ancapailldorcha

The Red Wedding elicited a similar reaction from me.

Thargor

Knew it was coming, the author mentioned the leg wound one time too many and the minute he squared up to errr... cant remember his name, immortal, wrecked his world, cursed by a couple of gods? I knew the leg was going to go.

ancapailldorcha

Thargor wrote: »

Knew it was coming, the author mentioned the leg wound one time too many and the minute he squared up to errr... cant remember his name, immortal, wrecked his world, cursed by a couple of gods? I knew the leg was going to go.

I don't quite understand what you mean?

It was Kallor btw.

I googled "Gardens of the Moon quotes" once and ended up with a quote from Memories of Ice which was a big spoiler. Still shocking though.

Thargor

It was foreshadowing, Eriksson mentioned it a couple of times too many and I knew it was going to be important.

ancapailldorcha

Thargor wrote: »

It was foreshadowing, Eriksson mentioned it a couple of times too many and I knew it was going to be important.

Oh, I was wondering what you meant by

"wrecked his world, cursed by gods" but I'd forgotten that that was Kallor's backstory.

I'm not in a position to say whether or not Erikson had too much foreshadowing as I've had a few spoilers dropped on my by that blasted wiki.

Thank Christ for the Malazan reread though.

keane2097

I'm almost finished a Chronicles of Amber re-read at the moment, going to go back to the start of the Malazan once again then I think and follow the Tor reread along.

ancapailldorcha

keane2097 wrote: »

I'm almost finished a Chronicles of Amber re-read at the moment, going to go back to the start of the Malazan once again then I think and follow the Tor reread along.

I'm thinking of going back to the start myself. The thought of going through the arduous Chain of Dogs again is putting me off.