Electric Cars

Sesshoumaru

ksimpson wrote: »

I had a test drive in the Leaf a few months ago.

The level of equipment was good and it seemed well put together. The ride felt harsh and the car felt heavy for its size. Probably down to the batteries.

On the plus side, the brakes were good and there was plenty of grunt. When I started off, the battery level showed 87%. After 3 miles and one stretch where I nailed it, it was at 56% when I was finished. I noticed that the aircon and radio were off during the test drive.

I reckon that I would struggle to do a 35 mile each way commute with lights, aircon and radio going (and possibly wipers) on one charge.

The other question is battery replacement after 5 years or so. Nissan have been very tight lipped on the cost.

There's a reason there are next to none on the road.

With cruise control on at 120kph the car is usually using 20 to 25 kilowatts of power. If you're "nailing it" then you are using 4 times more power, that's not really how most people will drive it.

Wipers, lights, radio and rear demister are all displayed under the "other" heading on the energy information screen:



All 4 of these on use about 500 watts of energy, maybe about 600 watts with the wipers manually set to full speed. They're level of power consumption won't have much of an affect on the range of the vehicle.

Using aircon to cool the interior temp is also extremely efficient, it won't affect range much. Heating can use more, on the coldest days the energy consumption peaks at the start and then automatically decreases as the car gets up to temp. Pre-heating allows you to avoid the peak at the start.

I'd also disagree with your opinion of the ride and feeling of weight.

Guy:Incognito

September1 wrote: »

Unless you spend 20 minutes to recharge. Sounds long but think about all this time you save on visiting petrol stations...



Well, you get it wrong. There are few ICEs that are both nice to drive and usable every day - Alfa Romeo would be excellent example. What makes fine car is not being fastest or most expensive like Veyron. That is about engineering, about making best from what you have.

With ICE cars there are hot hatches, low cost sports cars, have you heard about new Toyota GT86? I would not want Nissan to make EV a sports car, just to not waste potential in low hanging fruit.

Your comparing the current available electric car range of about 5 cars to the thousands of models of ICE car available?

They were building a family car, not a sports car. It's not missed potential that it isnt a sports car.

Sitec

I also hate the whole "I'm a petrol head" attitude people have towards EV's.

Diesel cars are the perfect example. If someone said diesels would be as quick/fun to drive as there petrol equivalent 20 years ago they would have been laughed at.

It's a relatively new technology, give it time.

September1

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Your comparing the current available electric car range of about 5 cars to the thousands of models of ICE car available?

They were building a family car, not a sports car. It's not missed potential that it isnt a sports car.

I'm comparing just to prove that good engineering can use whatever is available. I also wanted to share things I do not like in car I bought, which overall brings positive experience. I have not owned a car where I would not be able to find one or more things to be improved.

Sitec wrote: »

I also hate the whole "I'm a petrol head" attitude people have towards EV's.

Diesel cars are the perfect example. If someone said diesels would be as quick/fun to drive as there petrol equivalent 20 years ago they would have been laughed at.

It's a relatively new technology, give it time.

No, it is very old technology. EVs are here for over 100 years and while in last decades their use was limited - they were never abandoned. Anyway 20 years ago diesel engines were less sporty then petrol ones, but electrical engines were already as they are today - responsive, high rev, good torque - power characteristics. New engine technology and high costs of fuel have enabled growth of diesel, however fact that EVs are now again considered in consumer sector is thanks to new batteries and high cost of fuel. Engines were and probably will stay same..

Sitec

September1 wrote: »

I'm comparing just to prove that good engineering can use whatever is available. I also wanted to share things I do not like in car I bought, which overall brings positive experience. I have not owned a car where I would not be able to find one or more things to be improved.



No, it is very old technology. EVs are here for over 100 years and while in last decades their use was limited - they were never abandoned. Anyway 20 years ago diesel engines were less sporty then petrol ones, but electrical engines were already as they are today - responsive, high rev, good torque - power characteristics. New engine technology and high costs of fuel have enabled growth of diesel, however fact that EVs are now again considered in consumer sector is thanks to new batteries and high cost of fuel. Engines were and probably will stay same..

Agree, I still think there is more to come from the ICE though. The EV has been around since the first ICE but really it's only starting in terms of being a viable alternative to a ICE vehicle.

Yawn the ev bashing threads again.

Just ask a leaf owner if he thinks paying say, 12 euro's to do the same range that costs 90+ euro's in a diesel is a good thing or not !!!

In 5 years or so no one will care about petrols or diesels once battery production ramps up a lot more and comes down in price. And petrol and diesel is nearly 2 Euro's per litre!

The Opel ampera is selling a lot better than expected in Europe and a lot more than the U.S mainly because fuel costs much more here than there. But people will pay much more for it because they (think) they need 400 miles range. But really it's business owners that will buy it and receive tax benefits, it would be as cheap to buy an Audi A4 diesel, or cheaper but cost a lot less to run especially in ev mode, but I doubt many drivers of the Ampera will charge at home especially if their boss won't pay for the recharging, which is minuscule anyway!

To me the Ampera is over complicated and unnecessary, but it might find uses for high mileage sales reps and the likes until battery charging can be got down to 5 mins or so. But for most people the leaf, or Zoe would be more than good enough, even the twizzy would save a lot of traffic in towns.

I like the Twizzy and think it will change the way a lot of people choose to get around!!!

People are too used to 400+ mile ice range and refueling in 5 mins.

Again I will keep hammering the point, why pay for a big heavy expensive 300 mile battery when you will not do that every day and 95+ of your mileage is under 100 miles a day ?

Fast charging in the same time as a ice refill is what we really (want) but not necessarily need!

The renault zoe will recharge in under an hour form the esb street chargers, plenty of time for shopping, most charging will take place at home.

The leaf in under 30 mins from a fast charger, wtf more do you want ?

I do strongly believe ev prices are being kept artificially high to benefit from government grants across Europe. The zoe price of 21K or so before grants is very expensive especially because it doesn't include the batteries.

carbon nanotube

MCMLXXV wrote: »

There was less than 50 EV's sold here last year. Personally I would hold off for another couple of years until their reliability has been proven.

id say the reliability is pretty ironed out now, its the high initial outlay, punters doubts on the whole electric shebang and general 'will wait until joe bloggs from next door gets one' which is putting off people

of course joe bloggs is still not buying one.


I did an interview with JLR in warwick last week for hybrid R&D role, I said to yer man what is the biggest problem facing you now and he said cost.

cost cost cost...!

Capt'n Midnight

MCMLXXV wrote: »

There was less than 50 EV's sold here last year. Personally I would hold off for another couple of years until their reliability has been proven.

Once you keep them from corroding or burning out electric motors have very long lives. After that you at the mercy of the control systems/software, and that's true of every modern car.

Capt'n Midnight

ksimpson wrote: »

I had a test drive in the Leaf a few months ago.
...

I reckon that I would struggle to do a 35 mile each way commute with lights, aircon and radio going (and possibly wipers) on one charge.

https://selfficiency.wordpress.com/automotive/nissan-leaf-diary/

Daily commute of 105Km each way

These are my new numbers; Total Mileage – 4,356miles/7,014km, Total Fuel – 968kWh, Total Cost – €87.07
...
if I based it on todays diesel price (which would have cost me €616.14; 392.91 litres x 159.9cent) it would be a saving of €529.07.

If prices stay the same as they are now then that’s a yearly saving of about €1587.21, but we know prices won’t stay were they are

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

120km range. So I couldn't drive one to the Motors meet on Sunday from Dublin if I wanted to come back?

where is the meet ? Check out charging points en route, have a coffee during a 30 minute quick charge should get you a good bit closer to home