Is this normal practice for car dealers?

666bxg

Is it normal for so-called car dealers to bump up the price of a car once there is some interest in it?

This has happened to me on more than one occasion. Car been sitting in forecourt for past few weeks, you drop in make some serious enquiries. Then suddenly price goes up!!! I actually asked a dealer once and he denied this. He had nothing to say when I gave him a screen capture of the 'old' advertised price!

Surely they are not breaking any rules but things like this just make you lose any respect for these guys.

Anyone care to comment?

EPM

Was the advertised price a cash price by any chance? A lot of dealers do this trick.

666bxg

Yes one dealer I confronted explained the reason for the price increase was because the cash price was first advertised.

The question is do car dealers have to resort to 'tricks' when it comes to selling their products?

Buffman

It could be a case of putting it up in order to bring it down again during haggling. A bit silly to do though if they've already had it online with a lower price.

Yakuza

I've noticed more and more that the price entered on CarZone is the straight deal price, with this fact buried in the description text.

Gophur

I had this recently when I was quoted a price for my car. The car I was interested in was then gazumped by €1,000.

I was quoted a 'price to change' and 'the price on the website' but the sales man wasn't happy when the gazump was noticed.

(He then proceeded to denigrate my car. I told him I could do the same with the car he was selling. )

Two weeks later he changed the website price back to its original value. I won't be back.

zeteckiller

this goes on all the time, the straight sale price gets advertised on the ad but if you are trading in then the price goes up.

i have also heard of trade in values changing depending on the car that is being purchased. the situation below happened to my sister not long ago.

trade in value offered on 2005 mitsubishi lancer against 2010 ford fiesta, €3750
trade in value offered on same against 2009 ford fiesta, €2250

Anan1

666bxg wrote: »

Yes one dealer I confronted explained the reason for the price increase was because the cash price was first advertised.

The question is do car dealers have to resort to 'tricks' when it comes to selling their products?

If you have a trade-in then the asking price is irrelevant anyway - the only figure that matters is the cost to change.

bazz26

It's a case of supply and demand folks. The dealer has a car that has interest from more than one potential buyer. It is the dealer's job to get the best price possible for that car. Unless you have agreed on a price with him and left a deposit I see nothing unusual about this type of practice. Was very common in the property market during the boom times too.

Pkiernan

It's normal for shady dirtbags.

I had a dealer jack up the price of a car I was looking at online from 18995 to 21995 because he thought I was a doctor.

At least he admitted it.

Delancey

Its a poor practice that does little to improve the reputation of a pretty tarnished industry.

The Bishop Basher

Anan1 wrote: »

If you have a trade-in then the asking price is irrelevant anyway - the only figure that matters is the cost to change.

I hear this stated all the time in here but the asking price and the trade in value both affect the cost to change. Therefore they are both very relevant especially when the asking price is being pushed up.

run_Forrest_run

bazz26 wrote: »

... Was very common in the property market during the boom times too.

and we know how that ended

Anan1

Swanner wrote: »

I hear this stated all the time in here but the asking price and the trade in value both affect the cost to change. Therefore they are both very relevant especially when the asking price is being pushed up.

Neither is important of itself, it's only the relationship between the two that counts. The rest is smoke and mirrors, no more.

Gophur

In my case I was given a valuation for my car. When I enquired about the other car, my "valuation" remained unchanged, but the price of the other car was jacked up.

Anan1

Gophur wrote: »

In my case I was given a valuation for my car. When I enquired about the other car, my "valuation" remained unchanged, but the price of the other car was jacked up.

That makes no sense. You can't be given a trade-in valuation in the abstract, only against another, specific, car.

Gophur

Anan1 wrote: »

That makes no sense. You can't be given a trade-in valuation in the abstract, only against another, specific, car.

Of course you can.

My car is worth the same, whether it is traded against a Mini or a Mercedes.

The dealer moved the goal-posts and lost out. I would have bought the car had he acted honourably. Another person, maybe not so internet-savy, would have been caught.

Anan1

Gophur wrote: »

My car is worth the same, whether it is traded against a Mini or a Mercedes.

Yes it is, which is why its trade-in value will vary according to the cash discount of the other car!

Kristopherus

Well IMHO those kind of antics by dealers dealers only serves to fuel the already dubious opinion of Joe Public, who would historically have had a jaundiced view of the industry.

Anan1

I think people need to lose this obsession with sticker price. Sticker price matters if you're buying a newspaper or a can of Coke, with a car far less so. Garages manipulate sticker prices because they know that the average customer is preoccupied with discounts and trade-in values, to the detriment of the actual deal.

kildare.17hmr

Anan has it spot on. For example If i buy a car for 10k and advertise it for a cash price of 12.5k and you want to trade in and your car is worth 8 i cant sell it to you for 4.5k because your car will cost me the retail price its worth and after servicing and warranty when i sell it on i may as well of handed you 500 quid and not bothered selling the first car!

So my price for trade in is lets say 14k and then i give you 8k what your car is worth and it costs you 6k to change and your car is costing me 6k so i now am relying on selling your car for 8k to probably make 1000 less the vat i get charged profit off the 2 cars after servicing and warranty on both.

You always have the option of trying to sell your car privatly but good luck getting the retail price a garage would charge for it you will probably get 6.5k (if your lucky) selling it privatly then the new car will still cost you another 6k to buy it for cash

We are not (most of us) robbing bastards or shady this is how vehicle sales work people.

Gophur

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Anan has it spot on. For example If i buy a car for 10k and advertise it for a cash price of 12.5k and you want to trade in and your car is worth 8 i cant sell it to you for 4.5k because your car will cost me the retail price its worth and after servicing and warranty when i sell it on i may as well of handed you 500 quid and not bothered selling the first car!

So my price for trade in is lets say 14k and then i give you 8k what your car is worth and it costs you 6k to change and your car is costing me 6k so i now am relying on selling your car for 8k to probably make 1000 less the vat i get charged profit off the 2 cars after servicing and warranty on both.

You always have the option of trying to sell your car privatly but good luck getting the retail price a garage would charge for it you will probably get 6.5k (if your lucky) selling it privatly then the new car will still cost you another 6k to buy it for cash

We are not (most of us) robbing bastards or shady this is how vehicle sales work people.

I'm well aware of how trading works, thanks. I am also well aware of prices and valuations and I'm as entitled to hold out for what I think my car's worth as any dealer.

I highlighted how my car was valued and how a dealer then tried to move the goal-posts. He tried to deceive me, and failed. The likes of this guy survive by being successful with these tactics on unwitting customers. If he's pulling strokes like this then I would not be surprised to see him pull other strokes.

kildare.17hmr

Gopher if i was talking directly to you i would have quoted you, thanks :rolleyes: i was talking in general because alot of people really dont get it.

You dont know the deal with the car you were looking at, it could have been there months and he could have been selling it at cost or even below and it would not make sense to sell it to you for what you wanted to pay. Im not sayint he was not tryin to pull a fast one just playin devils advocate as this does happen.

I really think people who have no bleedin clue what they are talkin about spend way too much time givin out about "shady dealers" when really they are just running a busimess (again, not directed at you)

Anan1

Gophur wrote: »

I'm well aware of how trading works, thanks. I am also well aware of prices and valuations and I'm as entitled to hold out for what I think my car's worth as any dealer.

I highlighted how my car was valued and how a dealer then tried to move the goal-posts. He tried to deceive me, and failed. The likes of this guy survive by being successful with these tactics on unwitting customers. If he's pulling strokes like this then I would not be surprised to see him pull other strokes.

I really don't see where the stroke is. The dealer wants to get as much money out of you as possible, you want to pay as little as possible. If you find a figure you can both live with then you do the deal, if not you don't. Where did it become personal?

Gophur

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Gopher if i was talking directly to you i would have quoted you, thanks :rolleyes:.................

Ah, right!!!!

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

................
You dont know the deal with the car you were looking at, it could have been there months and he could have been selling it at cost or even below and it would not make sense to sell it to you for what you wanted to pay. Im not sayint he was not tryin to pull a fast one just playin devils advocate as this does happen.
...................

Eh, is this directed at me? You didn't quote me! (I did know the "deal" with the car. If you read my posts you will see the price dropped again, after I walked away).

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

...........
I really think people who have no bleedin clue what they are talkin about spend way too much time givin out about "shady dealers" when really they are just running a busimess (again, not directed at you)

Eh............OK!

kildare.17hmr

Gophur wrote: »

Eh, is this directed at me? You didn't quote me! (I did know the "deal" with the car. If you read my posts you will see the price dropped again, after I walked away).!

im gussing he readvertised the cash sale price which was obviously less because you were looking to trade in. This goes back to my original post!!

Gophur

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

im gussing [sic]...........

Yep, you are!

kildare.17hmr

Gophur wrote: »

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

im gussing [sic]...........

Yep, you are!

But so are you lad thats my point because you dont know

Gophur

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

But so are you lad thats my point because you dont know

Thanks.

I know the following
1. I was told how much my car was worth.
2. I know what the price of the other car was.
3. I know the price of this car was jacked up by €1,000, only when I enquired about it.
4. I know the price of the car was, subsequently reverted back to its original asking price.
5. I know I was lied to, to justify the increase in price.
6. I know the price and value of both cars.

And, after all that, I have no interest in dealing with the dealer.

Yours, etc
"lad"

creedp

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

im gussing he readvertised the cash sale price which was obviously less because you were looking to trade in. This goes back to my original post!!

Granted a lot of people have no knowledge of the car sale business but when us kind walk into a garage and see a sticker price we assume that is the price of the car .. not the cash price versus the trade-in price etc, etc. We then enter into negotiation on the trade in value. I'm sorry but this kind of thing whereby the price advertised in the garage is cash only and this has to be increased if I have a trade-in doen't wash with me either and it smack of opportunism (which maybe is an acceptable way of trade in the car business .. its just one I don't like) Why wouldn't the salesman simply say that is the price of the car and you car is valued at €?? so net price is €??? The days of lads trying to pull the wool over your eyes and messing around with trade-in values shold be gone in my view. We don't all like going around haggling over imaginery values .. In the old day this haggling involved lads spitting in hands and shaking and giving luck money and making cups of tea and whatnot. Now most people like to cut out that stuff and get to the point what's your best price cash and trade! That's simply my opinion obviously and may not cut the mustard with others ....

kildare.17hmr

Simple reason because if your going to trade in your car you will have a fair idea of what its worth, now if you want to trade in at the cash price you will get a trade(not trade in price but what irs actually worth to the dealer) price for your car which will be a fair bit less than tou think its worth. The price to change will be the same as if he bumped up his price because he would bump up yous too to gice you the retail value.

I have done alot of sales lately for straight sale prices and givin trade value for their trade ins but the price would be the same ether way

For Paws

(1) You walk into a car sales room and select a vehicle you'd like.

You enquire what the price, haggle a bit, and then hand over the cash.

You take your car with a statutory guarantee and drive off.
(If the car breaks down the next day, the deals off, he gets the car back &
you get your cash back - I know it doesn't always work out that way, but that's the law).

Having taken out what he paid for the car & any repairs / cleaning that he's done to it to make it presentable he then goes to the bank / bookie / on hols with the cash.

(2) You walk into a car sales room ans select a vehicle you'd like.

You enquire what the trade-in price is, he puts a value on your own car, you haggle a bit, and then hand over the cash, and your car keys.

You take your car with a statutory guarantee and drive off.
(If the car breaks down the next day, the deals off etc.)
However if your old car breaks down the next time the dealer tries to drive it -it's just his tough luck. He has no comeback. Even if it doesn't have any major fault, he still has to do any minor repairs and cleaning, and then hope somebody will buy it off him for more than it cost him.

All of these things combine to mean that the dealer needs a margin.
That margin is the difference between 'cash' price and 'trade-in' price.

creedp

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Simple reason because if your going to trade in your car you will have a fair idea of what its worth, now if you want to trade in at the cash price you will get a trade(not trade in price but what irs actually worth to the dealer) price for your car which will be a fair bit less than tou think its worth. The price to change will be the same as if he bumped up his price because he would bump up yous too to gice you the retail value.

I have done alot of sales lately for straight sale prices and givin trade value for their trade ins but the price would be the same ether way

But that is the point I dont know what the value of my car is to a garage .. I might know what the value is to me or what I think it is worth but in my view that's irrelevant to the price I will get in a trade-in. The point being made earlier was that the ticket price was increased when a trade-in was involved. Why not leave the ticket price alone and give a realistic trade-in value - one that mean's the garage can actually cover the cost of servicing and sale. As you say yourself the end result in the same for the buyer so lets dispense with the gameplay and say it as it is as all it really means is that I know that your 'cash price' is inflated to make me feel better about the value of my pride and joy! As I said that's how I would like to deal .. maybe others would miss the chase ..

kildare.17hmr

Thats what iv been doing lately with alot of people but most people wont accept this way of doing it, they want the cash price for the vehicle they are buying and the full trade in price of what they think their car is worth. You sound like an easy customer to deal with but most people are not thinking the same as you unfortunatly and are more focused on the 2 prices instead of the cost to change

creedp

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Thats what iv been doing lately with alot of people but most people wont accept this way of doing it, they want the cash price for the vehicle they are buying and the full trade in price of what they think their car is worth. You sound like an easy customer to deal with but most people are not thinking the same as you unfortunatly and are more focused on the 2 prices instead of the cost to change

I find it hard to understand all right. I suppose they might feel like they are winning on the double and it eases their mind somewhat .. cost of change remains the same in any case so everybody's happy. As you say you have to deal with the customer and the customer is always right!! Give them what they want.

Anan1

creedp wrote: »

But that is the point I dont know what the value of my car is to a garage .. I might know what the value is to me or what I think it is worth but in my view that's irrelevant to the price I will get in a trade-in. The point being made earlier was that the ticket price was increased when a trade-in was involved. Why not leave the ticket price alone and give a realistic trade-in value - one that mean's the garage can actually cover the cost of servicing and sale. As you say yourself the end result in the same for the buyer so lets dispense with the gameplay and say it as it is as all it really means is that I know that your 'cash price' is inflated to make me feel better about the value of my pride and joy! As I said that's how I would like to deal .. maybe others would miss the chase ..

When I sold cars, I used to sit customers down and explain how the system worked, ie the difference between the real and the notional value of their trade-in. I did it so that, if they wanted to sell their own car privately before the new car arrived, they'd know what they needed to get to improve on my offer. To be honest, quite a few ended up just looking confused and suspicious.