Covering the miles: small VS big

johnos1984

While taking a week off from my usual busy* schedule and driving I've been left pondering.

I love a fun car to drive. Size isn't an issue really (I never carry passengers and don't have kids etc.) other than I find bigger cars more comfortable for cruising on the motorway but pigs when it comes to darting along a back road.

Anyway to cut to the nub of the issue. I cover 20-25k miles a year, mostly motorway miles to be honest. Would it be viable to cover this in a small yet fun petrol car, I'm thinking along the lines of a Punto 1.4 16V or Suzuki Swift.

I often hear that ride comfort etc has improved over the years in small cars but does it translate to the real world. My current car is a Passat 1.9TDI for those who don't know

Anan1

I think it would, although it really comes down to your own priorities.

Big Nasty

johnos1984 wrote: »

Would it be viable to cover this in a small yet fun petrol car, I'm thinking along the lines of a Punto 1.4 16V or Suzuki Swift.

WTF is fun about a Punto / Swift!?!:eek::eek::eek:

CiniO

Consider a fact, that during accident with another vehicle small car will be not as safe as big one.

bazz26

While comfort has improved over the last number of years, I would not fancy doing 20k/25k miles in one. They are still not as refined or comfortable as bigger cars.

Things like suspension, seats, cabin insulation are all designed within a smaller budget to meet market segment prices. Try driving a Punto or Swift at 70/80mph on a motorway with a strong crosswind compared to doing the same trip in the likes of your Passat or an Insignia. The Punto/Swift will be rocking from side to side and you will know you are doing 70/80mph. The same trip in the Passat/Insignia will be more pleasant and less stressful to you and the car.

johnos1984

MCMLXXV wrote: »

WTF is fun about a Punto / Swift!?!:eek::eek::eek:

Very little on a motorway but once off it they come into their own. Light weight and responsive engines help

CiniO

MCMLXXV wrote: »

WTF is fun about a Punto / Swift!?!:eek::eek::eek:

Nothing unless you get f.e. Punto HGT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYOA_zyyBZk

CiniO

bazz26 wrote: »

While comfort has improved over the last number of years, I would not fancy doing 20k/25k miles in one. They are still not as refined or comfortable as bigger cars.

Things like suspension, seats, cabin insulation are all designed within a smaller budget to meet market segment prices. Try driving a Punto or Swift at 70/80mph on a motorway with a strong crosswind compared to doing the same trip in the likes of your Passat or an Insignia. The Punto/Swift will be rocking from side to side and you will know you are doing 70/80mph. The same trip in the Passat/Insignia will be more pleasant and less stressful to you and the car.

Hmm not neceseerily true.
All car is liable to cross-winds at different level, and it has very little to do with it's size.
I find my bravo and mazda 6 very similar, or even bravo o bit better.

bazz26

CiniO wrote: »

Hmm not neceseerily true.
All car is liable to cross-winds at different level, and it has very little to do with it's size.
I find my bravo and mazda 6 very similar, or even bravo o bit better.

It has to do with weight though. A small car is obviously lighter, I've seen drivers of small cars in front of me on motorways with a strong crosswind fighting with the steering wheel while I don't experience the same problem.

johnos1984

Well if the Punto and Swift are off the menu is there a small car that isn't going to break the bank to run, gives some decent driver comfort, can keep up with traffic and which gives the driver a smile?

CiniO

bazz26 wrote: »

It has to do with weight though.
A small car is obviously lighter,

It is lighter, but as well is smaller, so there is less surface which wind can push.
As I'm telling you - it all depends on certain model.
The most liable to cross-winds vehicle I've ever driven is full size (12m long) coach, even though it weights when loaded over 15 tonnes.

I've seen drivers of small cars in front of me on motorways with a strong crosswind fighting with the steering wheel while I don't experience the same problem.

Maybe your car is not very liable to cross-winds.

conzy

Whats the budget?

johnos1984

conzymaher wrote: »

Whats the budget?

I'm waiting for the CU to come back to me. Given that they work at a glacial pace I'll expect the answer next Monday :rolleyes:

All going well I expect to have access to 10k plus my Pisshat, whatever that is worth I don't really know. It's a 2006 1.9TDI with 139k miles in navy if anyone can hazard a guess.

I've been looking at diesel saloons but nothing is floating my boat. My mechanic is keeping an eye out for an A4 but I'm not so sure as I'm fearful of ending up with another eye water repair bill.

I'm trying to decide what it is I want versus what I can afford to get. I just have no idea what I want and it's spinning my head a bit.

Atomic Pineapple

Get a sporty hatchback like a Focus ST, Golf GTi or Astra OPC, my ST is great at being refined on the motorway but still fun on the back roads, MPG is poor but if you want something enjoyable/fun to drive on back roads your going to have to compromise somewhere.

johnos1984

johnos1984 wrote: »

....................
I love a fun car to drive. Size isn't an issue really (I never carry passengers and don't have kids etc.) other than I find bigger cars more comfortable for cruising on the motorway but pigs when it comes to darting along a back road. ..............................

Pity there are no comfy big cars around that aren't pigs when darting about back roads

johnos1984

RoverJames wrote: »

Pity there are no comfy big cars around that aren't pigs when darting about back roads

Your being a bollix

I'm not sure about a ZT. I reckon any I'd import now will be fairly high mileage or getting a bit crusty underneath from road salt

You may however think I'm mad

johnos1984

draffodx wrote: »

Get a sporty hatchback like a Focus ST, Golf GTi or Astra OPC, my ST is great at being refined on the motorway but still fun on the back roads, MPG is poor but if you want something enjoyable/fun to drive on back roads your going to have to compromise somewhere.

At a potential 25k miles a year I think that's a step too far sadly

johnos1984

johnos1984 wrote: »

Your being a bollix

I'm not sure about a ZT. I reckon any I'd import now will be fairly high mileage or getting a bit crusty underneath from road salt

You may however think I'm mad

Wasn't specifically on about ZTs, diesel ST Mondeo wouldn't be shabby in the handling department, fair few other options too, X-type 2.2 for one.

I think my ZT came in to Ireland 4 years ago when it was 6, no crusty bits four years later although the back box was rotten
A 100k mile 2005 ZT diesel wouldn't be overly hard to find in relatively good condition, they cost little enough too, €5000/€5500 landed perhaps, they would be 7 years old though which mightn't be what you're after coming from the Passat.

johnos1984

RoverJames wrote: »

Wasn't specifically on about ZTs, diesel ST Mondeo wouldn't be shabby in the handling department, fair few other options too, X-type 2.2 for one.

I think my ZT came in to Ireland 4 years ago when it was 6, no crusty bits four years later although the back box was rotten

Mondeo is out as I don't like the interiors really although they are a very nice drive although I've never been in an ST.

X-Type I would be nervous about given I would like to keep the bills down as and when things go wrong.

I'm rather nervous about going to the UK myself to bring back a car which I'd have to do to get some value in the above cars. I've made some bloody obvious mistakes in the past when buying cars and don't fancy being caught out again

CiniO

johnos1984 wrote: »

At a potential 25k miles a year I think that's a step too far sadly

Maybe get Bravo 1.9 Multijet 150HP.
That will give you very nice quick car, with very good fuel economy, and small maintenance cost.

johnos1984

RoverJames wrote: »

they would be 7 years old though which mightn't be what you're after coming from the Passat.

I don't like to think I'm a number plate snob but it does play on my mind a bit when shopping to move up the years.......although this time I don't really care.

Out of interest what would my car be worth if I sold it privately and are cars like that selling at the minute

johnos1984

johnos1984 wrote: »

...............

Out of interest what would my car be worth if I sold it privately and are cars like that selling at the minute

Dunno, is the knock off the DMF very noticeable to the trained leg/ear?

skyhighflyer

An outside shot, but I've always fancied a Citroen c2 1.6HDI VTR, would have to go to the UK for one though.

swe_fi

I would not do this if I did mainly motorway, unless the car has 6 / high gearing - Cruising at 130 km/h @ 4000 revs is not that fun after a while

Bad comparison but
My old Petrol Astra 1.4 ~4000 revs @ 130
Focus Diesel 1.6 ~2600 revs @ 130 (would imagine the Passat is about the same)

Bigger cars usually have much better isolation from road noise also which becomes more apparent at speed (motorway)

Not much to do with fun...My brain could not have computed the above 10 years ago :-)

166man

Alfa 147 JTDm 150 then remap to 180bhp? Power for the back roads, nice comfortable interior and a long sixth gear for the motorway..

Reliable too.

CiniO

swe_fi wrote: »

Cruising at 130 km/h @ 4000 revs is not that fun after a while

Why?
My car (mazda 6 - not that small) does 3900rpm at 130km/h. I can't see anything wrong with that and why should it be no fun after while?

While cruising at 180km/h at 5400rpm you can't even hear the engine because noise of air resistance and tyres is way louder, so it doesn't really matter what RPM are you at.

Bigger cars usually have much better isolation from road noise also which becomes more apparent at speed (motorway)

That's actually generally true, but has nothing to do with engine RPM really, as above some speeds you don't hear your engine anyway.
And at speeds of up to 120km/h all cars would be comfortable and quite enough·

EPM

166man wrote: »

Alfa 147 JTDm 150 then remap to 180bhp? Power for the back roads, nice comfortable interior and a long sixth gear for the motorway..

Reliable too.

Any other car in that class would be a better mile muncher. That car is very old hat at this stage. And I wouldn't fancy an accident or the upkeep on one doing big miles either. Nice car, but past it for that money.

What about a 159 instead?

BrianD3

It's something I've thought about a fair amount not so much because i want a fun car for country roads but for cost reasons.

I drive a Renault Laguna II which is a very comfortable and refined car at legal speeds, feels very "planted" etc. Excellent motorway car even as a 1.6 petrol.

But the design is over 10 years old now and things are improving all the time. Small cars are without a doubt better than they were. I would not be surprised if even A segment cars like the new VW Up and new Panda are pretty good for long distance driving.

The VW Up has a wheel base about the same as B and C Segment cars from a few years ahgo. And not too far off some older larger cars. Eg the original Mk1 Saab 900 (length 184 inches) had a wheelbase of 99.1 inches while the Up (length 139 inches) has a wheelbase of 95.3 inches.

One thing about very small cars is they often don't have a centre armrest or even have it as an option. I'd notice this on a long journey. Also if i'm gripping a steering wheel for 2 hours I'd like it to be leather covered, small basic cars would tend to have a plastic wheel.

CiniO

159 is definitely not a small car.
I would risk saying it's bigger than passat.

Anyway - still my main concern about small car is safety.

Boots2006

Fabia VRS http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2982234
Cupra TDI http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2846778
^^^ that guy will even take your Passat!

Stick with a TDI or a turbo petrol, you'd need a fairly big NA petrol in a fairly small car to get what you're after.

dgt

RoverJames wrote: »

Pity there are no comfy big cars around that aren't pigs when darting about back roads

This is big-ish, very comfy and quite nimble in the corners. Just don't expect any of that in the wet

MCMLXXV wrote: »

WTF is fun about a Punto / Swift!?!:eek::eek::eek:

Unless its an Abarth Punto evo... Then there isn't much fun atall!

OP here's something impractical, small and very fast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVBMlYWWcvc

Or

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KujCUCgn6TY

I couldn't care less if either isn't road legal!

barura

Small car? Fun? Fiat 500. Easily!

Or even a Polo Gti (yeah yeah, I'm a fanboy) Is pretty fun too!

Here's a Fiat 500 thats 2 years old with 8k on the clock, asking 9k but you could probably get it for 7.5k/8 cash if that's in your range. http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2976636

conzy

What about a 123d or a 125i? Im not a huge fan of how it looks, maybe it would grow on you though!

Also seen as you have a pretty decent budget why not just buy a fun weekend car? You could go totally mad and get something really fun and keep the passat for commuting, or is it on the way out?

rcdk1

barura wrote: »

Small car? Fun? Fiat 500. Easily!

I agree 100% with you but....

johnos1984 wrote: »

I cover 20-25k miles a year, mostly motorway miles to be honest.

The 500 is definitely one of the small cars bazz was referring to as suffering badly from crosswinds on motorways.

-Corkie-

I think your mad buying a small car John. I think you were just very very very unlucky with that Passat. With your budget I would be looking at a post 08 Accord. Bazz and Cinio made very good points above.

I find my car great on backroads allthough I have lowered suspension and wider tyres too.

dgt

dgt wrote: »

This is big-ish, very comfy and quite nimble in the corners. Just don't expect any of that in the wet

............

My E34 520i tourer was very decent on back roads in fairness to it
My post you quoted was tongue in cheek to say the least :pac:

dgt

RoverJames wrote: »

My E34 520i tourer was very decent on back roads in fairness to it
My post you quoted was tongue in cheek to say the least :pac:

Been a long day here!

Granted very few big cars are nimble (try firing a W126 round the bends and see how it responds for example :P)

I swear it's a co-incidence that I'm picking cars I have here but here's another cracking handling saloon...



...If you can stretch to the running costs (the E34 is far cheaper to run, not that M5 though) :pac:

-Corkie-

Going by the quarter panel on your one Mal the handling aint that good..:pac::pac::pac:

Satanta

johnos1984 wrote: »

All going well I expect to have access to 10k plus my Pisshat, whatever that is worth I don't really know. .

Should be able to stretch to something like this:



Decent spec. Got a remap done. Good handling wise too.

pred racer

CiniO wrote: »

159 is definitely not a small car.
I would risk saying it's bigger than passat.

Anyway - still my main concern about small car is safety.

159 is smaller than a passat(definately smaller than my old c5)

Op there is serious fun to be had on back roads with a 159:D its the first car ive ever had that can go round corners faster than i'm willing to go round them!
Its very good on the motorway in 6th with cruise control.
Only problem is its not as economical as your passat (or my old c5 for that matter:o)

I love mine..........;)

Big Nasty

Actually an M-Tech spec 3 series coupe would fit the bill nicely!

unkel

E92 330d? Standard 231BHP / 500NM and if that doesn't suffice, map it to 275 BHP / 650NM

Faster than any little hot hatch on any road and still 50MPG (when you're not racing hot hatches )

unkel

Ah you beat me to it!

dahamsta

What version Passat have you? The wife had a B5.5 110, it had incredibly uncomfortable seats and positioning, driving it any distance was torture. If you're comfortable in one of those I reckon you'd be a-ok in a Reliant Kitten. It was great fun on the country roads though, I'll give you that.

I drove a half-dozen small cars via Mummy Dearest but I don't think I'll ever actually own one unless I can afford to run more than one. They're fun, but I prefer something more substantial and they're definitely not practical for family.

I used to have an Astra G van for the back roads that was almost as much fun as the van. These days the wife's E39 estate is the small car, and that's fun too, albeit occasionally terrifying!

Long story short: Big.

unkel

dahamsta wrote: »

These days the wife's E39 estate is the small car

Looks like you've got yourself a proper motoring family, Adam

An E39 530d is not a bad proposition for the OP either. Bigger maybe than he would have bargained for but as all of us onetime E39 owners and drivers know, it is one hell of a setup. Even the most basic early 2l petrol, while not very powerful at only 150BHP, is still a blast to drive on the twisties if you keep the momentum going.

ottostreet

MX5

unkel

ottostreet wrote: »

MX5

OP already has an MGF so I assume he wants something different altogether

johnos1984

unkel wrote: »

OP already has an MGF so I assume he wants something different altogether

I had an MGF..........sadly it ended on bad terms and now it's gone.

I had thought about an MX5 but covering big miles in one? Would that be possible without breaking my back or bank?

IrishZeus

If you're considering an MX5, you should consider and S2000.

Personally wouldn't fancy driving either on that kind of mileage each year.

I've had small to big cars and the current Lexus is by far the best and most comfortable for longer trips.

bijapos

johnos1984 wrote: »

I had an MGF..........sadly it ended on bad terms and now it's gone.

I had thought about an MX5 but covering big miles in one? Would that be possible without breaking my back or bank?

Yes, its a decent all round car and fine on long distances, the moment I read your OP I thought of it, especially if you never need more than 2 seats.

If you've €10k + the Passat you're looking at near €20k, this is €17k, and to hell with the cross winds. Its only 5 months old as well.

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Fiat/500/ABARTH-2/201146205661883/advert?channel=CARS



The alternative for me would be one of these:



Along with one of these for a sunny day



You should have both of them in good nick for under €6k, I'd spend the rest on a cheap luxobarge like the LS430 that was in bangernomics a couple of days ago and bugger the high tax for a couple of years.

Alternatively get a Porsche 944 or 968 (PM galwaytt for one ) and spend the rest on a luxobarge.

You can do all this for well under €10,000, you'll have something to play with and will save a lot on depreciation and CU interest.

bijapos

bijapos wrote: »

..............

You can do all this for well under €10,000, you'll have something to play with and will save a lot on depreciation and CU interest.

... he won't save anything really, just spend it on fuel, tax and maintenance instead of interest and loan repayment. I don't think that's an option doing 25k miles/annum