I have no-one to vote for...

Bannasidhe

I know, I know we are not due a general election for years and years but still I am already concerned that I will have no one to vote for .

I haven't been in this position since I lived in the UK and the choice was between Margaret Thatcher or Neil Kinnock.

I used to vote Labour. I used to vote for Kathleen Lynch. I am very not happy that they are reneging on their election promises. I am very not happy that in a blind taste test it would be impossible to tell the difference between FG/LP in government and FF/GP in government.
The straw that has broken the camels back was when I saw what the Labour TDs for Cork claimed in expenses for 10 and a bit months last year - these so-called socialists are claiming every penny they can while cutting SNAs (Quinn), attacking the unemployed with headline grabbing rhetoric about dole spongers (Burton), ensuring their special advisers breach the salary cap (Gilmore) - so they can go take a long walk off a short pier before I'll tick the box next to their names again.

FG - may as well be FF as far as I can see. They have broken nearly every election promise they made.

FF - I will admit I have never voted FF - I remember Haughey too well and Aherne, Cowen etc did nothing to dispell my aversion to that party. Martin...oh how quick he is to sling the mud when FG are sticking to policies that are essentially the same as FF planned.

SF - I was looking at them, I was trying to really hard to overcome any prejudice I have towards them. But all they seem to do is spout anti-everything polemics without ever producing a viable alternative.
Then I see that statements such as

I have stated many times that it is my view that TD’s, Senators, Junior Ministers and Ministers are over paid and that their expenses are inflated. Both the Salary and the expenses should be cut substantially by Doherty in 2009

http://pearsedoherty.blogspot.com/2009/09/my-expenses.html
but he claimed over 51k in expenses for 2011.
Mary-Lou - champion of the working classes showed her solidarity with the hard pressed taxpayer by claiming the average industrial wage in expenses.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlxJrxiwB44XdGJZcG0tUVI2aWVGZzdkUThWZG1FTHc#gid=0
It just smells like hypocrisy to me.

So - it looks like I will have no-one to vote for...

Anyone else find themselves in the same position?

Doesn't matter if you are on the right/left/centre - do you feel there is someone worth voting for and why should I vote for them?

Red21

If you feel nobody is good enough to represent you, why don't you run yourself?

AngryBollix

Reneging is part and parcel of politics.

Its finding the best liar thats the problem

Frank Black

With proportional representation and multi-seat constituencies such problems are easily overcome.
You just start with who you hate most - don't give them any number vote. Next move onto who you next hate most, you can give them a preference (the number of candidates -1) and so on moving up through your card.
At the end, your left with the candidate you hate the least - who you give your number 1 to.
Sorted.

SEPT 23 1989

There will be a new party by the time the election comes

AngryBollix

Red21 wrote: »

If you feel nobody is good enough to represent you, why don't you run yourself?

Its too easy to sit on our arse and complain abut others

OneOfThem Stumbled

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Anyone else find themselves in the same position?

+1

Whilst waiting for a new party (and the sun to rise in the west) I'll just vote for fat cat moderates in a bid to keep loopy anarchists or nationalist-socialists at bay

We could do with a Pirate Party

smash

Vote independent

opinion guy

AngryBollix wrote: »

Reneging is part and parcel of politics.

Its finding the best liar thats the problem

Wow thats deep. Does this mean finding the best liar in general so that when we beg from Europe he will lie to them undetected.....or......does that mean finding the best one who is lying to me so I won't cop on I'm being lied to and will remain in happy delusion ?

foxyboxer

first world problems.


third world problem.

Phill Ewinn

Vote for SF. They are the default opposition to FF/FG

Bannasidhe

Red21 wrote: »

If you feel nobody is good enough to represent you, why don't you run yourself?

I could not join any of the current political parties -in fact I have resigned from the LP - as I have had enough of election promises that end up being discarded as soon as the election is over. I am sick of the endless spin and blame game the parties indulge in. I am sick of austerity being preached but not practised by TDs.
Being a person who believes a promise is a promise seems to be a serious handicap in Irish party politics. I also have huge objections to the way the Whip system is abused.

As for being an independent - it seems to me that is a (highly paid) waste of time unless one is in the position of holding the balance of power á la Gregory, Healy-Rae, Lowry etc. In which case it is grab everything you can for your little corner and feck the national interest.

Cat Melodeon

I supported Labour in the last election. I'm not at all happy with their performance since they've been in power (yes, I'm looking at you Sean Sherlock and you Pat Rabbitte), but I would hate to think how bad the alternative would be - an FF coalition or FG on their own. I mostly voted Labour in order to get Fianna epicFail out and I would do so again, not because I think Labour are great but to keep FF out. How to get Lowry out is the next connundrum. Hopefully the rejigged constituency boundaries will go against him, but I'm not holding out much hope. We'll probably end up with him and Mattie MacGrath representing us. The joys of living in Tipp!

As for your own predicament, if there aren't any decent independents and you don't fancy your own chances, just vote for the least bad option. And don't forget to use your local election vote wisely next year.

TeddyTedson

Frankie out! Blokes a knob head.

swimming in a sea

Vote ZANU-PF, Ireland would back on its feet in no time.

Bannasidhe

black francis wrote: »

With proportional representation and multi-seat constituencies such problems are easily overcome.
You just start with who you hate most - don't give them any number vote. Next move onto who you next hate most, you can give them a preference (the number of candidates -1) and so on moving up through your card.
At the end, your left with the candidate you hate the least - who you give your number 1 to.
Sorted.

That's the problem. I find myself hating them all equally.

Biggins

Its not perfect according to critics (and they might have a point) but the the one is my signature is trying at least.

AgileMyth

Bannasidhe wrote: »

That's the problem. I find myself hating them all equally.

You could run yourself?

Frank Black

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

We'll probably end up with him and Mattie MacGrath representing us. The joys of living in Tipp!

Having had the pleasure of meeting Mattie a few times through work when he was just a humble Councillor - I'd have to say I'd prefer to be represented by serial crook Michael Lowry.

Mattie McGrath is one of the thickest, rudest and most ignorant people I've ever encountered and I watched his election to TD with a mixture of bemusement and depression.

Bannasidhe

AgileMyth wrote: »

You could run yourself?

See post #13.

AgileMyth

Bannasidhe wrote: »

See post #13.

Start a new party?

Bannasidhe

Biggins wrote: »

Its not perfect according to critics (and they might have a point) but the the one is my signature is trying at least.

Who? Tell me more.

I want to vote see. I always vote. My first voting experience was the abortion referendum in 1983. It's a thing with me - voting.

RussellTuring

You don't have an obligation to vote for anyone* and why should you if nobody is suitable to you? Remember that when you vote for someone you're implying that you stand by the decisions they have yet to even make. The only person I feel can truly represent my opinion is myself so someone I've never met is hardly going to do a good job.

Also, I don't subscribe to the idea that you have to vote for someone because you hate them a bit less than the other option. It reinforces the idea that we should settle for unsuitable candidates and elects people who are no more qualified than being slightly less objectionable than the alternative. The enemy of your enemy isn't necessarily your friend.

*I was talking about elections. Voting in a referendum is a different issue to me.

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

+1

Whilst waiting for a new party (and the sun to rise in the west) I'll just vote for fat cat moderates in a bid to keep loopy anarchists or nationalist-socialists at bay

Anarchists don't often run for election.

KeithAFC

I think you should look to consider Fianna Fail. I think with a new fresh start and being in opposition, they could be a good option for you.

gcgirl

KeithAFC wrote: »

I think you should look to consider Fianna Fail. I think with a new fresh start and being in opposition, they could be a good option for you.

Bit like the turkeys voting for Xmas
Hopefully it's a sarcastic comment
Those fookers got us in the **** state we are in

Biggins

KeithAFC wrote: »

I think you should look to consider Fianna Fail. I think with a new fresh start and being in opposition, they could be a good option for you.

:pac:

Your funny! :pac:
You post was the first one today to make me laugh.

opinion guy

KeithAFC wrote: »

I think you should look to consider Fianna Fail. I think with a new fresh start and being in opposition, they could be a good option for you.

:pac:
Comedy gold!

Nothingbetter2d

we need to form a boardsie party to run for elections next time round.

we will need candiates for the following:

Minister For After Hours
Minister For Technology & Computers, Net & Comms (that guy can replace sherlock)
Minister For Biz (this job is for dealing with taxation & consumer affairs)
Minister For Health
Minister For Edu (Education Minister)
Minister For Music & Arts (cultural arts minister)
Minister For Region (Foreign Affairs minister - cork is another country after all)
Minister For Sports & Games
Minister For Security
Minister For Society (can have joan burton's job)
Minister For Science

now name your favourite Boardsie Mod to run for each position

Morlar

I think it's going to be another case of which is the least worst candidate ?

All of them will continue to make living in Ireland progressively more expensive for average paye workers.

Kind of like having to choose a poison, none of them are good for you but some of them are worse than others.

I'd put labour at the Rat poison, FF are the Drain cleaner, FG are the Super strong Domestos, leaving SF as the Fairy washing up liquid. Independents tend to be raving wackjobs. That's a slightly unfair generalisation but it's not that unfair imo.

Pride Fighter

Despite the harsh austerity the current government are heaping on the country Labour are still the least worst political party IMO. They have the only TD that claims zero expenses (Eamonn Maloney), are part of a European Parliament group the Socialists and Democrats that have IMO the best policies in the European Parliament (despite Labour not implementing any of them in government, they would likely form the most part of the next manifesto).

The other parties are absolutely awful IMO, Fine Gael were founded by fascists and racists. Fianna Fail have bankrupted the nation 3 times, Haughey, Ahern, need I say more. Sinn Fein have a bunch of ex murders as their TD's and are implementing austerity in Northern Ireland making their anti-austerity stance down here hypocritical. They are also not genuine, they claim they draw the average industrial wage but in fact claim more in expenses while taking the full TD's salary, as the OP said. Far left do the same as Sinn Fein with the 'average industrial wage' malarkey and have no concrete policies. Independents are a wasted vote.

It is a sad state of affairs when one votes for a party cause they are the least bad though IMO. I'll likely vote Labour in the next local elections.

Lawrence1895

Deleted User wrote: »

We could do with a Pirate Party

Like them? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party_Germany

Anyway, why not voting for Sinn Fein? At least, nobody can blame them of f***ing up matters in Government

Nothingbetter2d

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Despite the harsh austerity the current government are heaping on the country Labour are still the least worst political party IMO. They have the only TD that claims zero expenses (Eamonn Maloney), are part of a European Parliament group the Socialists and Democrats that have IMO the best policies in the European Parliament (despite Labour not implementing any of them in government, they would likely form the most part of the next manifesto).

The other parties are absolutely awful IMO, Fine Gael were founded by fascists and racists. Fianna Fail have bankrupted the nation 3 times, Haughey, Ahern, need I say more. Sinn Fein have a bunch of ex murders as their TD's and are implementing austerity in Northern Ireland making their anti-austerity stance down here hypocritical. They are also not genuine, they claim they draw the average industrial wage but in fact claim more in expenses while taking the full TD's salary, as the OP said. Far left do the same as Sinn Fein with the 'average industrial wage' malarkey and have no concrete policies. Independents are a wasted vote.

It is a sad state of affairs when one votes for a party cause they are the least bad though IMO. I'll likely vote Labour in the next local elections.

labour also broke their own rules regarding pay caps while taking more money off the ordinary people to pay for these "special advisers"

Pride Fighter

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

labour also broke their own rules regarding pay caps while taking more money off the ordinary people to pay for these "special advisers"

True, so did FG. I'm not defending Labour cause they have made too many mistakes in government, but the alternatives are truly shocking.

Chuck Stone

I'm the same OP. I don't like any of the political parties and I'm suspicious of the motives of people who are attracted to politics.

Look at this check list to identify a sociopath. How many ticks does every politician anyone can think of get?

Glibness/superficial charm
Manipulative and conning
Grandiose sense of self
Pathological lying
Lack of remorse, shame or guilt
Shallow emotions
Incapacity for love
Need for stimulation
Callousness/lack of empathy
Poor behavioral controls/impulsive nature
Early behavior problems/juvenile delinquency
Irresponsibility/unreliability
Promiscuous sexual behavior/infidelity
Lack of realistic life plan/parasitic lifestyle
Criminal or entrepreneurial versatility
Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
Authoritarian
Secretive
Paranoid
Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
Conventional appearance
Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life
Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
Incapable of real human attachment to another
Unable to feel remorse or guilt
Narcissism, grandiosity (self-importance not based on achievements)
May state readily that their goal is to rule the world

Scary?

Lawrence1895

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Despite the harsh austerity the current government are heaping on the country Labour are still the least worst political party IMO. They have the only TD that claims zero expenses (Eamonn Maloney), are part of a European Parliament group the Socialists and Democrats that have IMO the best policies in the European Parliament (despite Labour not implementing any of them in government, they would likely form the most part of the next manifesto).

The other parties are absolutely awful IMO, Fine Gael were founded by fascists and racists. Fianna Fail have bankrupted the nation 3 times, Haughey, Ahern, need I say more. Sinn Fein have a bunch of ex murders as their TD's and are implementing austerity in Northern Ireland making their anti-austerity stance down here hypocritical. They are also not genuine, they claim they draw the average industrial wage but in fact claim more in expenses while taking the full TD's salary, as the OP said. Far left do the same as Sinn Fein with the 'average industrial wage' malarkey and have no concrete policies. Independents are a wasted vote.

It is a sad state of affairs when one votes for a party cause they are the least bad though IMO. I'll likely vote Labour in the next local elections.

Is there any solid link to support that statement? Thanks.

I'm asking, because most of those, who expressed racist views towards me, told me, they support FG...but strongly deny to be racist, or calling FG a party with a history linked to racism/fascism.

Bannasidhe

See what I mean - we are actually debating who is the least worst.

I are fed up of having a 'choice' between Slightly right muppet/slighty left muppet/ populist muppet/ centerest muppet or independent muppet.

Bannasidhe

Lars1916 wrote: »

Is there any solid link to support that statement? Thanks.

I'm asking, because most of those, who expressed racist views towards me, told me, they support FG...but strongly deny to be racist, or calling FG a party with a history linked to racism/fascism.

In July 1933 O Duffy became leader of the Army Comrades Association, which had been set up to protect Cumann na nGaedhael public meetings, which had up to that point been disrupted under the slogan "No Free Speech for Traitors" by IRA men freed by de Valera when he gained power. He immediately changed its name to the National Guard. O Duffy was an admirer of the Italian leader, Benito Mussolini, and his organisation adopted outward symbols of European fascism, such as the straight-arm Roman salute and the distinctive blue uniform. It wasn't long before they became known as the Blueshirts...
In September 1933 Cumann na nGaedhael, the Centre Party and the Blueshirts merged to form Fine Gael. O Duffy, though not a TD, became the first leader, with former President of the Executive Council, (prime minister) W.T. Cosgrave serving as parliamentary leader. The National Guard became the youth wing of the party. However, meetings were often broken up by scuffles with the IRA.

http://www.generalmichaelcollins.com/Fine_Gael/Eoin_O_Duffy.html

Pride Fighter

Lars1916 wrote: »

Is there any solid link to support that statement? Thanks.

I'm asking, because most of those, who expressed racist views towards me, told me, they support FG...but strongly deny to be racist, or calling FG a party with a history linked to racism/fascism.

Here is a recent example of their racism http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/sep/15/world.race

But it is well known that Fine Gael was founded when the Nation Centre Party, Cumann na nGaedheal and the Army Comrades Association merged in 1933. The Army Comrades Association became the Blueshirts, the equivalent of the brown and blackshirts on the continent and fought on the Fascist side in the Spanish Civil War.

Lars1916

Lars1916 wrote: »

Like them? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party_Germany

Exactly. AFIK there was an attempt to set up one here a number of years ago but it never caught on. Several european countries have pirate parties now and I think some of them have seated members.

Fenian Army

Don't see the issue with SFs expenses if they are vouched and actually required... after all its expensive for the TDs from Donegal or cork or whatever to drive to and from dublin as well as getting places to stay overnight, and on the average wage they can't really afford to pay for that stuff themselves.

If they took home a huge wage as well as huge expenses I'd be angry, cause if they took the whole wage they would be well able to afford stuff and wouldn't need expenses.

Would be quite cynical myself about politicians. Why not put up what you are looking for in a political party? Only fools are happy with every aspect of a political party, these are robots that just spout the party line and can't think for themselves, bare that in mind, you can always try to effect change from withing a party, once you agree with its core principals.

Lawrence1895

Deleted User wrote: »

Lars1916 wrote: »

Like them? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party_Germany

Exactly. AFIK there was an attempt to set up one here a number of years ago but it never caught on. Several european countries have pirate parties now and I think some of them have seated members.

They made it into the Local Parliament ('Senat') in Berlin last time out. Didn't hear of any more success stories in Germany though.

Pride Fighter

Fenian Army wrote: »

Don't see the issue with SFs expenses if they are vouched and actually required... after all its expensive for the TDs from Donegal or cork or whatever to drive to and from dublin as well as getting places to stay overnight, and on the average wage they can't really afford to pay for that stuff themselves.

If they took home a huge wage as well as huge expenses I'd be angry, cause if they took the whole wage they would be well able to afford stuff and wouldn't need expenses.

Would be quite cynical myself about politicians. Why not put up what you are looking for in a political party? Only fools are happy with every aspect of a political party, these are robots that just spout the party line and can't think for themselves, bare that in mind, you can always try to effect change from withing a party, once you agree with its core principals.

The bit in bold. They do take home the huge wages all TD's do. It is available under Freedom of Information. All TD's get the 92k wages and only one claims no expenses.

Sam Vimes

Bannasidhe wrote: »

SF - I was looking at them, I was trying to really hard to overcome any prejudice I have towards them. But all they seem to do is spout anti-everything polemics without ever producing a viable alternative.
Then I see that statements such as http://pearsedoherty.blogspot.com/2009/09/my-expenses.html
but he claimed over 51k in expenses for 2011.

Now I don't want anyone to get the idea that I support anything that has ever been said or done by a member of Sinn Fein but I wouldn't let the fact that someone claimed 51K in expenses automatically turn you off them. Last year I claimed nearly 10K in expenses from my job because I spent that money on a business trip. I didn't just claim for 10K and put it in my pocket and neither did Doherty. I spent that money, i.e. they were an expense that I incurred in the course of doing my job, and I rightly claimed it back. I wouldn't care if I was on €1,000,000 a year, I would still have claimed that money back and anyone who said I should have used my own wages for it would have been told where to stick their suggestion

That's not to say that he spent the entire 51K on doing his job either mind you. The Dail expenses system is overly generous. The point is that just because he claimed 51K doesn't mean he's 51K better off or anywhere near it

Fenian Army

Pride Fighter wrote: »

The bit in bold. They do take home the huge wages all TD's do. It is available under Freedom of Information. All TD's get the 92k wages and only one claims no expenses.

They dont, they get the average wage into their pocket, they live off that, the rest goes into party funding and AFAIK is partly used for things like cross community projects in the north, as well as offices etc.

RussellTuring

Bannasidhe wrote: »

See what I mean - we are actually debating who is the least worst.

I are fed up of having a 'choice' between Slightly right muppet/slighty left muppet/ populist muppet/ centerest muppet or independent muppet.

So why do you feel you have to vote for any? If someone told me to choose between two options that were equally bad, nothing but abstaining can really express your disapproval. If the people who get elected are allowed to abstain from voting, then you certainly can.

Bannasidhe

Fenian Army wrote: »

Don't see the issue with SFs expenses if they are vouched and actually required... after all its expensive for the TDs from Donegal or cork or whatever to drive to and from dublin as well as getting places to stay overnight, and on the average wage they can't really afford to pay for that stuff themselves.

If they took home a huge wage as well as huge expenses I'd be angry, cause if they took the whole wage they would be well able to afford stuff and wouldn't need expenses.

SF TDs draw down a salary of over 90k a year- they then donate that to their party which pays them the 'average industrial wage'. They then claim pretty much the same amount in expenses as FF/FG etc.

As for needing over 50k a year to travel from Cork to Dublin and stay overnight - where do you think Cork is? Next to New York? It's 70 odd euro return on the train FFS. 3 hours drive.

Where the hell are they staying when in Dublin for the 100 or so days the Dail sits every year?

Not to mention the fact the Dail is in recess for months over the summer, Easter and Xmas.

Over 50 grand - to travel up and down from Dublin for a max of about 4 months. Seriously?????

Sam Vimes

RussellTuring wrote: »

So why do you feel you have to vote for any? If someone told me to choose between two options that were equally bad, nothing but abstaining can really express your disapproval. If the people who get elected are allowed to abstain from voting, then you certainly can.

The problem is that if you don't choose, someone else will choose for you

Bannasidhe

RussellTuring wrote: »

So why do you feel you have to vote for any? If someone told me to choose between two options that were equally bad, nothing but abstaining can really express your disapproval. If the people who get elected are allowed to abstain from voting, then you certainly can.

I consider it my duty as a citizen to vote. Plus, not voting - where would that get us unless they held an election and nobody voted?

TwoShedsJackson

The only realistic option is a benevolent police state with me in charge. Vote for me, I'm great.

Nothingbetter2d

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I consider it my duty as a citizen to vote. Plus, not voting - where would that get us unless they held an election and nobody voted?

ALL Ballot papers need an option "None of the above" and if the "none of the above" option gets the most votes then all candidates are deemed disqualified

and a new set of election candidates must be selected. that would shake them all up.