Do you Speak Irish?

gobnaitolunacy

Wibbs wrote: »

It's a very schizo cultural subject for us. We don't have it about Gaelic games, or Irish music. We play/listen/watch both in large numbers, no lip service required. However ask us beyond lip service to actually speak Irish and we're met with a resounding silence or at best far off whispers. It's all a bit odd.

You can opt out of both Irish music and GAA and neither have suffered. It's not 'learn it....or else'. Besides both of those have an element of 'fun' that learning tenses and other dry linguistic sh*te does not.

carrig2

Tá Gaeilge agam agus tá mé bródúil as an teanga agus paiseanta fuithi.
I have Irish and I speak it on a daily basis with my friends and my family.I love Irish and am proud to speak it because of that.

I won't feel ashamed to speak Irish because it is a minority language. It is a beautiful, rich language that is part of our identity as much as our music and our games.I won't have people put Irish down because of its lack of use. If we were to apply a utilitarian standard to all things in education the curriculum in schools would be very narrow.

bluecode

Like so many people I had all interest in the language drained out of me by the school system and that's where the problem lies. Until that is addressed the language will continue to languish behind Polish as a spoken language in this country.

But it is used in daily life, particularly in places like Galway and not just the Gaeltacht either. I was surprised to hear Mothers outside my kid's school chattering away unselfconsciously in Irish and speaking it to their children. Now it is an Irish speaking school.

You can also hear is spoken in pubs and shops. But I do find it odd that many people who are very competent in Irish don't speak it much. I was taken aback when my wife conducted an entire conversation in Irish with another Irish speaker. I honestly didn't know she was that good.

But we should all really be speaking it normally or at least be capable of it. I was in the locker room of a job I had once. There were two African co workers chatting away to each other in their own language just beside. Eventually one apologised for their 'rudeness' at continuing to speak in their own language in my company. I told him not to worry and that I wished I could speak my native language. He was actually astonished that I couldn't speak my own language and amazed that most Irish didn't either.

I was really embarrassed as we all should be.

Whatever the solution of the issue. There is absolutely no excuse for some of the antagonistic anti Irish language comments seen on this thread. I cannot think of another country where so many people actively hate their own language.

What does that say about us Irish?

BrianG23

Well, it should be a choice to learn it carrig. If people feel like you do about it they have the resources if they want

carrig2

BrianG23 wrote: »

Well, it should be a choice to learn it carrig. If people feel like you do about it they have the resources if they want

I think that children should have to learn it in primary school but i agree they should have a choice in secondary school. I see no point in forcing people to learn a language. It will only make them resent it more.

SeanW

biko wrote: »

I speak it a tiny bit, usually just to confuse tourists.

Which is just about its only use.

hurpederp

Use it daily, speaking with my father. Other than that, there is no need for me to use it, nor do I think one will ever arise. Having said that though, I do often meet people who hear my Irish and remark that they too would love to have fluent Irish.
It seems that the older people are the more they wish they spoke Irish. It really is a pity that the school system kills it stone dead in it's infancy.

Printeruk

a mhinice is gá sin

9959

carrig2 wrote: »

Tá Gaeilge agam agus tá mé bródúil as an teanga agus paiseanta fuithi.
I have Irish and I speak it on a daily basis with my friends and my family.I love Irish and am proud to speak it because of that.

I won't feel ashamed to speak Irish because it is a minority language. It is a beautiful, rich language that is part of our identity as much as our music and our games.I won't have people put Irish down because of its lack of use. If we were to apply a utilitarian standard to all things in education the curriculum in schools would be very narrow.

I'm late on to this thread, though I did contribute to a similar one a few weeks back.

Don't understand your first sentence, but it's hard to disagree with the rest of your post, save perhaps the line "...rich language that is part of our identity..".
Obviously you feel that it is part of your identity, whereas I don't feel that it was ever a part of mine.
Many would share your point of view.
Many would share mine.
Where to go from here?

Precious flower

I'm convinced that if any other culture was in the same situation as we are with regards their language we wouldn't be saying 'Oh just let it die' etc. It seems to me that it's this Irish self-depreciating attitude that is holding us back. I think there are some people in this country who are perfectly capable of speaking Irish but won't because they are unsure of their abilities or just plain afraid. That attitude needs to be addressed as well fairly sharp.

carrig2

9959 wrote: »

I'm late on to this thread, though I did contribute to a similar one a few weeks back.

Don't understand your first sentence, but it's hard to disagree with the rest of your post, save perhaps the line "...rich language that is part of our identity..".
Obviously you feel that it is part of your identity, whereas I don't feel that it was ever a part of mine.
Many would share your point of view.
Many would share mine.
Where do go from here?

When i say our identity I mean ours as a nation and whatever your personal view you cannot deny that a language plays its part in defining the culture of a nation.
Irish is not important to you. You are entitled to that opinion. Just because I identify strongly with it does not mean I feel every Irish person should.
Many people do share my point of view.
Many, many more share yours.
Where we go from here I am not sure. But one thing I would do tomorrow is takle how Irish is taught in our schools. Two things I would do immediately
1. I would make Irish a non-compulsory subject in secondary schools. Compelling people to learn a language they have no interest in devalues that language for all
2. I would put more emphasis on learning Irish as a lively, fun subject in primary schools. The focus is too much on what is taught in schools not how it is learned.

Iwasfrozen

carrig2 wrote: »

When i say our identity I mean ours as a nation and whatever your personal view you cannot deny that a language plays its part in defining the culture of a nation.
Irish is not important to you. You are entitled to that opinion. Just because I identify strongly with it does not mean I feel every Irish person should.
Many people do share my point of view.
Many, many more share yours.

That's the problem with nationalistic thought. You assume the nation is an entity that you can apply characteristics to. "Nations" don't have languages because "nations" don't exist. People exist and people have languages but if everyone who makes up that nation doesn't consider the language their own then it is not the nations language.

carrig2 wrote: »

Where we go from here I am not sure. But one thing I would do tomorrow is takle how Irish is taught in our schools. Two things I would do immediately
1. I would make Irish a non-compulsory subject in secondary schools. Compelling people to learn a language they have no interest in devalues that language for all
2. I would put more emphasis on learning Irish as a lively, fun subject in primary schools. The focus is too much on what is taught in schools not how it is learned.

I actually agree with this though.

DyldeBrill

Speak it probably every day

carrig2

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

That's the problem with nationalistic thought. You assume the nation is an entity that you can apply characteristics to. "Nations" don't have languages because "nations" don't exist. People exist and people have languages but if everyone who makes up that nation doesn't consider the language their own then it is not the nations language.


I actually agree with this though.

I take your point. Are you happy with adds to our identity as a people?
And in saying that Irish forms part of our identity but that does not exclude English being part of our identity either.

So if you agree with my policies will you vote for me for minister for education?

Iwasfrozen

carrig2 wrote: »

I take your point. Are you happy with adds to our identity as a people?
And in saying that Irish forms part of our identity but that does not exclude English being part of our identity either.

So if you agree with my policies will you vote for me for minister for education?

Well that's my point. It's not our identity because I don't speak it or associate with it. But sure. It adds to the identity of those who do.

and lol you betcha. Now you just have to get friendly with FF before their inevitable come back in the next election.

Iwasfrozen

DyldeBrill wrote: »

Speak it probably every day

That's nice. I remember my irish teacher always used to try get me to speak irish everyday but I just replied to him in English until he stopped trying.

carrig2

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

That's nice. I remember my irish teacher always used to try get me to speak irish everyday but I just replied to him in English until he stopped trying.

Why (for research purposes)

A. Because you were worried your answer would not be correct
B. Because it was not cool to talk Irish
C. Because it was your life's ambition to break down teachers
D. All of the above
E. Other and MYOB

9959

carrig2 wrote: »

When i say our identity I mean ours as a nation and whatever your personal view you cannot deny that a language plays its part in defining the culture of a nation.
Irish is not important to you. You are entitled to that opinion. Just because I identify strongly with it does not mean I feel every Irish person should.
Many people do share my point of view.
Many, many more share yours.
Where we go from here I am not sure. But one thing I would do tomorrow is takle how Irish is taught in our schools. Two things I would do immediately
1. I would make Irish a non-compulsory subject in secondary schools. Compelling people to learn a language they have no interest in devalues that language for all
2. I would put more emphasis on learning Irish as a lively, fun subject in primary schools. The focus is too much on what is taught in schools not how it is learned.

Thanks for the clearly-written, intelligent reply.

Your opening sentence seems like common sense to me, however, I believe the real argument is to what degree does/should language play a part in defining the culture of a nation.
My guess is that we'd have to agree to disagree on that one.
Good luck.

Iwasfrozen

carrig2 wrote: »

Why (for research purposes)

A. Because you were worried your answer would not be correct
B. Because it was not cool to talk Irish
C. Because it was your life's ambition to break down teachers
D. All of the above
E. Other and MYOB

Pretty much a combination of D and other, this particular teacher was a cúnt so taking him down a peg was nice.

the_syco

deise go deo wrote: »

Most of you spent 13 odd years learning it

If you were good, you were taught how to speak it (hons). If you weren't, you were taught how to read it (pass), and if you were bad at it, you were taught how to answer questions without knowing what you were answering (foundo).

=-=

Learning French or German seems to be totally different to learning Irish. Perhaps because the French and German language exists in large parts of the world, whereas the Irish language only exists in small parts of Ireland, and aside one or two teachers in my school who liked the language, for some it seemed just another subject to drill into us from a book.

I was taught a truely bastardized version of the language; good for reading poems and stories, sh|te for actually talking with.

Difference Engine

I'd love to learn Irish properly now I'm a bit older, proper conversational Irish. I learned how to pass an Irish exam in school and that's all.

I don't think teenagers will ever appreciate the value of our own language the way it is currently taught. That's not a slight on Irish teachers but rather a problem with the curriculum. There is too much emphasis on poetry and novels and not enough on conversing in Irish.

Fluorescence

the_syco wrote: »

If you were good, you were taught how to speak it (hons). If you weren't, you were taught how to read it (pass), and if you were bad at it, you were taught how to answer questions without knowing what you were answering (foundo).

Not true. When I did the Leaving the Hons and Ord classes had the exact same oral - the examiner wasn't told what level the candidate was taking.

I don't know if it's changed now that the oral is worth so much more, but saying Ord was never taught to speak is a total lie.

DyldeBrill

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Pretty much a combination of D and other, this particular teacher was a cúnt so taking him down a peg was nice.

at least your attempting some Irish here...fair play

Death and Taxes

carrig2 wrote: »

Tá Gaeilge agam agus tá mé bródúil as an teanga agus paiseanta fuithi.
I have Irish and I speak it on a daily basis with my friends and my family.I love Irish and am proud to speak it because of that.

I won't feel ashamed to speak Irish because it is a minority language. It is a beautiful, rich language that is part of our identity as much as our music and our games.I won't have people put Irish down because of its lack of use. If we were to apply a utilitarian standard to all things in education the curriculum in schools would be very narrow.

Who are "our" you are referring to? and what is "our" music U2, The Script? and our games, Rugby,GAA, Soccer, Golf?
Before you go any further it would be helpful if you were to define "our identity" and "our music and games".
Being from the eastern seaboard the Irish language plays no part whatsoever in my sense of identity and I have no idea what is meant by our music and games.

carrig2

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Who are "our" you are referring to? and what is "our" music U2, The Script? and our games, Rugby,GAA, Soccer, Golf?
Before you go any further it would be helpful if you were to define "our identity" and "our music and games".
Being from the eastern seaboard the Irish language plays no part whatsoever in my sense of identity and I have no idea what is meant by our music and games.

Ok I meant traditional music and traditional sports.
Are U2 and the Script part of our identity as Irish? Stupid question. Of course they are.
Rugby, golf and soccer are not Gaelic games but our rugby and soccer teams are part of our identity yes. Who doesn't think our soccer and rugby players are not part of our identity? Golfers are too yes.
Why are you assuming that I do not include modern culture. A culture is dead if it does not change.
There are people from the Eastern seaboard who identify with the Irish language and there are people from the western seaboard who don't.
I have already stated in a previous post that the English language plays a part in our identity too.

Crooked Jack

I dont believe that there is anybody here who never speaks Irish.
I mean never?
They've never had cause to name Fianna Fail or Sinn Fein aloud, never read a road sign or sign for the toilet.
Have never uttered a single word of the national anthem.
Never casually said go raibh maith agat, cen fath or dia duit.
Never had to mention a local townland, mountain or river that in all likelihood is in Irish or a derivative form of it.
No friends called Roisin, Seaneen or Seamus.
You may think I'm being pedantic here but Irish is all around us and its influence can be strongly found even in English, not just in the words we use but in the way we structure sentences, so I find it hard to believe that there are more than 200 people here who never speak it.
Rarely; possibly, but never? Really?

Malari

Crooked Jack wrote: »

I dont believe that there is anybody here who never speaks Irish.
I mean never?
They've never had cause to name Fianna Fail or Sinn Fein aloud, never read a road sign or sign for the toilet.
Have never uttered a single word of the national anthem.
Never casually said go raibh maith agat, cen fath or dia duit.
Never had to mention a local townland, mountain or river that in all likelihood is in Irish or a derivative form of it.
No friends called Roisin, Seaneen or Seamus.
You may think I'm being pedantic here but Irish is all around us and its influence can be strongly found even in English, not just in the words we use but in the way we structure sentences, so I find it hard to believe that there are more than 200 people here who never speak it.
Rarely; possibly, but never? Really?

And I'm sure there are people who order a croissant with a cappucino but don't claim to speak French and Italian. It's not really the same thing is it?

9959

Crooked Jack wrote: »

I dont believe that there is anybody here who never speaks Irish.
I mean never?
They've never had cause to name Fianna Fail or Sinn Fein aloud, never read a road sign or sign for the toilet.
Have never uttered a single word of the national anthem.
Never casually said go raibh maith agat, cen fath or dia duit.
Never had to mention a local townland, mountain or river that in all likelihood is in Irish or a derivative form of it.
No friends called Roisin, Seaneen or Seamus.
You may think I'm being pedantic here but Irish is all around us and its influence can be strongly found even in English, not just in the words we use but in the way we structure sentences, so I find it hard to believe that there are more than 200 people here who never speak it.
Rarely; possibly, but never? Really?

I think you're being silly. The same could be said of French, cul de sac, etc. (throw in Latin with Et cetera).

Crooked Jack

9959 wrote: »

I think you're being silly. The same could be said of French, cul de sac, etc. (throw in Latin with Et cetera).

Not nearly to the same extent as Irish. You dont turn on the news during the day and hear it in latin. The roads signs arent in English and Italian. Our place names, political parties, national anthem etc... dont come from French.
We dont have entire regions where people mainly speak German.
I'm not being silly. Never means never, it doesnt mean sometimes or rarely.

Cosmicfox

Hahaha no. Besides, English sounds much nicer.