Cycle red light break conviction

jambalap

I got court summons for breaking red light while cycling. If I plead guilty then will I have a record as traffic offence?Is this to be declared when filling application which asks have you committed traffic offence?. Is there any way I can pay fine and not get this in to my record?

seamus

Yes, it is a traffic offence, however it is not a conviction. So when filling out insurance or whatever, you do not have to declare it as a conviction.

RangeR

jambalap wrote: »

I got court summons for breaking red light while cycling. If I plead guilty then will I have a record as traffic offence?Is this to be declared when filling application which asks have you committed traffic offence?. Is there any way I can pay fine and not get this in to my record?

I know this is OT and a widely seeping question but why do cyclists think they are above the law and flout the rules of the road on a daily basis?

furiousox

RangeR wrote: »

I know this is OT and a widely seeping question but why do cyclists think they are above the law and flout the rules of the road on a daily basis?

Some cyclists behave badly just like some motorists behave badly.

Nuttzz

Depends on what the court decides

This guy got a driving ban for breaking a red light

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/injured-cyclist-gets-driving-ban-for-breaking-red-light-2228117.html

jambalap

RangeR wrote: »

I know this is OT and a widely seeping question but why do cyclists think they are above the law and flout the rules of the road on a daily basis?

I did a mistake and now I learnt lesson. I have been very good boy for last 5 months. If all cyclists new they have to be in court for breaking red light it will deter them as well when I stop at red light I see many cyclists passing me I wanted to tell them you will end up in court wasting your working day. I never thought I am the above law I can give many excuses but all I want to say is I made a mistake like every human being does and I learnt lesson and obeying the laws. I hope this satisfies your question.

jambalap

seamus wrote: »

Yes, it is a traffic offence, however it is not a conviction. So when filling out insurance or whatever, you do not have to declare it as a conviction.

Seamus Thanks for the reply. I am non EEA and I will be applying for citizenship in coming weeks . I have the following question in form
DO YOU HAVE ANY CONVICTIONS IN THE STATE OR ANY OTHER COUNTRY (INCLUDING TRAFFIC OFFENCES) OR ANY CIVIL JUDGEMENTS MADE AGAINST YOU?
I don't know how to answer the above question

P.S. I never drawn garda attention before in this state or any where else and no offences no traafic offences until the cycle thing happened

seamus

It would be worth speaking to a solicitor about, I can't advise you on how to answer that question.

My gut says your answer there is no - it's asking you if you have any convictions, not convictions or traffic offences. But speak to a solicitor because something as simple as running a red light may result in a conviction, but it can also be avoided.

Peregrinus

seamus wrote: »

Yes, it is a traffic offence, however it is not a conviction. So when filling out insurance or whatever, you do not have to declare it as a conviction.

Yes, it's a conviction. A traffic offence is an offence, and a plea of guilty results in a conviction.

If you're asked about convictions, you have to declare it, unless the question explicitly excludes convictions for traffic offences.

seamus

Peregrinus wrote: »

Yes, it's a conviction. A traffic offence is an offence, and a plea of guilty results in a conviction.

You're right, I was thinking of a fine rather than a court appearane.
There are ways to plead guilty though which don't result in a conviction, such as convincing the judge to allow you to make a contribution to the poor box.

A solicitor would be able to advise on how you play it. I wouldn't bother with a solicitor except that you're looking to make a citizenship application.

ResearchWill

jambalap wrote: »

Seamus Thanks for the reply. I am non EEA and I will be applying for citizenship in coming weeks . I have the following question in form
DO YOU HAVE ANY CONVICTIONS IN THE STATE OR ANY OTHER COUNTRY (INCLUDING TRAFFIC OFFENCES) OR ANY CIVIL JUDGEMENTS MADE AGAINST YOU?
I don't know how to answer the above question

P.S. I never drawn garda attention before in this state or any where else and no offences no traafic offences until the cycle thing happened

The following is not legal advice. But I have experience of this very problem. Under the last number of Ministers for Justice, Citizenship was being refused for minor trafic offence and i mean minor, parking on a double yellow line, another one was failure to produce on demand a driving licence. Now in saying that, since the new Minister has taken office I am not aware of any refusals for such minor offence but better be safe than sorry. BTW this does not mean there has been no recent refusals only I have not heard of any.

You will need a solicitor to inform the Court of the possible impact of a conviction, I have know where some Judges when informed of this will Strike the Matter out and not convict. So get good advice from a good immigration solicitor who knows his stuff.

johnfás

RangeR wrote: »

I know this is OT and a widely seeping question but why do cyclists think they are above the law and flout the rules of the road on a daily basis?

I suppose it's for the same reason that many drivers believe they aren't obliged to indicate when turning left and there is a cyclist on their inside. Which can and does have lethal consequences yet is a daily experience. And let's not even begin to talk about pedestrians.

Victor

seamus wrote: »

Yes, it is a traffic offence, however it is not a conviction. So when filling out insurance or whatever, you do not have to declare it as a conviction.

As it is a cycling matter it is dealt with via the courts, not a fixed penalty notice.

In law, there is no difference between a traffic conviction and other convictions although they tend to be dealt with more leniently.

blueythebear

ResearchWill wrote: »

The following is not legal advice. But I have experience of this very problem. Under the last number of Ministers for Justice, Citizenship was being refused for minor trafic offence and i mean minor, parking on a double yellow line, another one was failure to produce on demand a driving licence. Now in saying that, since the new Minister has taken office I am not aware of any refusals for such minor offence but better be safe than sorry. BTW this does not mean there has been no recent refusals only I have not heard of any.

You will need a solicitor to inform the Court of the possible impact of a conviction, I have know where some Judges when informed of this will Strike the Matter out and not convict. So get good advice from a good immigration solicitor who knows his stuff.

In fact, an Irish Times article on 11th September 2010 referred to a doctor that was refused Naturalisation on account of the same issue, a conviction for breaking a red light on a bike. You need to subscribe to the IT online to view the original article but here's the link for the gist of it:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0911/1224278636072.html

However, as has been said above by ReasearchWill, that was the story with the previous Minister. With Minister Shatter, things seem to be alot more reasonable...

Del2005

RangeR wrote: »

I know this is OT and a widely seeping question but why do cyclists think they are above the law and flout the rules of the road on a daily basis?

Every road user type has some people who break the law. TBH it's nearly as bad with cars as bicycles now for breaking reds.

jambalap wrote: »

Seamus Thanks for the reply. I am non EEA and I will be applying for citizenship in coming weeks . I have the following question in form
DO YOU HAVE ANY CONVICTIONS IN THE STATE OR ANY OTHER COUNTRY (INCLUDING TRAFFIC OFFENCES) OR ANY CIVIL JUDGEMENTS MADE AGAINST YOU?
I don't know how to answer the above question

P.S. I never drawn garda attention before in this state or any where else and no offences no traafic offences until the cycle thing happened

When are you applying for citizenship? Is it before or after the court date?
If the naturalisation is before your court date don't forget that your innocent till convicted.
If court date is before the naturalisation you need to see a solicitor.

ResearchWill

Del2005 wrote: »

Every road user type has some people who break the law. TBH it's nearly as bad with cars as bicycles now for breaking reds.



When are you applying for citizenship? Is it before or after the court date?
If the naturalisation is before your court date don't forget that your innocent till convicted.
If court date is before the naturalisation you need to see a solicitor.

Up untill recently applications for citizenship have taken upto 4 years with 3 being the norm. While the current minister promises new applications will take no more than 6 months, it could take longer and especially if there is a pending criminal issue.

jambalap

Del2005 wrote: »

Every road user type has some people who break the law. TBH it's nearly as bad with cars as bicycles now for breaking reds.



When are you applying for citizenship? Is it before or after the court date?
If the naturalisation is before your court date don't forget that your innocent till convicted.
If court date is before the naturalisation you need to see a solicitor.

I will be applying late this year. Can I talk to the Garda about my situation?

jambalap

ResearchWill wrote: »

Up untill recently applications for citizenship have taken upto 4 years with 3 being the norm. While the current minister promises new applications will take no more than 6 months, it could take longer and especially if there is a pending criminal issue.

My offence doesn't come under criminal. I will be applying late this year so by the time I have my verdict from the court.

jambalap

ResearchWill wrote: »

The following is not legal advice. But I have experience of this very problem. Under the last number of Ministers for Justice, Citizenship was being refused for minor trafic offence and i mean minor, parking on a double yellow line, another one was failure to produce on demand a driving licence. Now in saying that, since the new Minister has taken office I am not aware of any refusals for such minor offence but better be safe than sorry. BTW this does not mean there has been no recent refusals only I have not heard of any.

You will need a solicitor to inform the Court of the possible impact of a conviction, I have know where some Judges when informed of this will Strike the Matter out and not convict. So get good advice from a good immigration solicitor who knows his stuff.

Hi can you please let me know what is your experience and what did you do about it?

jambalap

ResearchWill wrote: »

The following is not legal advice. But I have experience of this very problem. Under the last number of Ministers for Justice, Citizenship was being refused for minor trafic offence and i mean minor, parking on a double yellow line, another one was failure to produce on demand a driving licence. Now in saying that, since the new Minister has taken office I am not aware of any refusals for such minor offence but better be safe than sorry. BTW this does not mean there has been no recent refusals only I have not heard of any.

You will need a solicitor to inform the Court of the possible impact of a conviction, I have know where some Judges when informed of this will Strike the Matter out and not convict. So get good advice from a good immigration solicitor who knows his stuff.

Do you have any idea how much solicitor charges for the same.

ResearchWill

jambalap wrote: »

Do you have any idea how much solicitor charges for the same.

The problem is that so few solicitors do immigration and also crime they are a very rare indeed. Best bet is to get golden pages in your area and ring solicitors who have both immigration and crime listed. Don't be afraid to ask about costs and don't be afraid to say how much you can afford. You may also depending on circumstances get legal aid in the district court because of the possible impact of a conviction.

ResearchWill

jambalap wrote: »

Hi can you please let me know what is your experience and what did you do about it?

In one case we had to extend time to appeal district Court conviction, after 4 years we thankfully got time extended. We then appealed DC conviction and then the State agreed to allow the appeal. Then fresh application for naturalisation was made, I'm not sure if that application is still pending because as barrister I have had no further involvement but I assume as I have not been contact it is either still pending or was granted.

jambalap

was in court today with my lawyer for cycle breaking red light back in november. The first thing judge ask is are there any previous convictions. As I had none i was asked to pay 120 euro to the court poor box and the case was dismissed. Judge gave chance to every defendant in all the cases to explain from their side. no conviction which is happy thing

paky

RangeR wrote: »

I know this is OT and a widely seeping question but why do cyclists think they are above the law and flout the rules of the road on a daily basis?

because cyclists in this country are reviled compared to their european counterparts. the high vis vests, helmets and lights are testament to that.

ridiculous charge imo

Hogzy

paky wrote: »

ridiculous charge imo

So you think cyclists should be allowed to run red lights?

Paulw

paky wrote: »

because cyclists in this country are reviled compared to their european counterparts. the high vis vests, helmets and lights are testament to that.

If cyclists didn't break the law, then they wouldn't need high vis vests, helmet or lights. If they stopped at red lights, didn't cycle on the footpath, etc, they wouldn't need to be as seen, and wouldn't be reviled. :rolleyes:

Great to see the law being enforced on cyclists.

seamus

Paulw wrote: »

If they stopped at red lights, didn't cycle on the footpath, etc, they wouldn't need to be as seen, and wouldn't be reviled. :rolleyes:

That's a fallacy in reality Paul. If cyclists rigidly obeyed the laws, then motorists would still see fit to whinge about cyclists "owning the bloody road" and "not paying road tax" and "not wearing helmets".

Red light breaking is a convenient red herring which allows people's inherent schoolyard bully attitude to be expressed in full glory. It's the equivalent of picking on the kid with glasses for being a "nerd", for no other reason than people who you don't feel belong in your "group" are fair game for ridicule. It's a natural human tendency to pick on the guy who's different, which a lot people seem incapable of growing out of.

Pedestrians would be the worst group for law-breaking among all road users. You don't see any twenty page rants about pedestrians not paying road tax or calls for a "walking licence" or insurance for pedestrians. Why not? Because they're not the "different guy", everyone is a pedestrian.

Hogzy

seamus wrote: »

That's a fallacy in reality Paul. If cyclists rigidly obeyed the laws, then motorists would still see fit to whinge about cyclists "owning the bloody road" and "not paying road tax" and "not wearing helmets".

Red light breaking is a convenient red herring which allows people's inherent schoolyard bully attitude to be expressed in full glory. It's the equivalent of picking on the kid with glasses for being a "nerd", for no other reason than people who you don't feel belong in your "group" are fair game for ridicule. It's a natural human tendency to pick on the guy who's different, which a lot people seem incapable of growing out of.

Pedestrians would be the worst group for law-breaking among all road users. You don't see any twenty page rants about pedestrians not paying road tax or calls for a "walking licence" or insurance for pedestrians. Why not? Because they're not the "different guy", everyone is a pedestrian.

Pedestrians have their own walkways so obviously road users (cyclists/motorists) wont complain about them.

Iv seen a cyclist get knocked down in Cork City, he ran a red light on Washington St and a car plowed into him, the simple cause was that the cyclist had not checked to see if all road ways were clear before proceeding. It was entirely the cyclists fault as the car would have been unable to see him because buildings block the view and the speed the cyclist was doing through the lights was crazy.

Im sure there are a good amount of cyclists out there who know how to use the roads. But there are a good amount too who dont know the basic traffic laws/rules. The word traffic doesnt refer to JUST cars, it also refers to bicycles. Anyone who uses the roads should follow traffic laws. Be they in a car, on a bike, on a segway or on a horse. Nobody should be exempt.

paky

Hogzy wrote: »

So you think cyclists should be allowed to run red lights?

yes, if they understand the risks that are involved

Hogzy

paky wrote: »

yes, if they understand the risks that are involved

But how is someone meant to know if that cyclist understands the risks involved.

By your logic/reasoning, anyone (be it a car/motorbike/truck etc) should be allowed run a red light "if they understand the risks involved."

You do realise that if a cyclist runs a red light (and either hits a pedestrian or traffic) then they are opening themselves up to a huge negligence claim.

Tigerbaby

Im a cyclist of many years in Dublin City, and I obey the law. I would say that the amount of cyclists breaking traffic lights is at least 70%. It sickens me to be honest.

All bikes should carry registration plates, like cars and motorbikes. They can easily be reported to the Guards then, and get their commupance.

To say that there as many cars breaking lights as cyclists is just sticking your head in the sand. It aint true!

And dont get me started on footpath cyclists.