New Regulations commencing 2013

Faith+1

New Amendments for Driving licences begining in 2013. Donkeyballs posted the link in Learning to drive.
From the looks of it the Motorcycle category is having an overhaul too including upping the age requirements and introducing a new category A2

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/si/0483.html

mikemac1

20 years old to get an A licence

Ok you apply for your new A2 at eighteen.

Pass and I assume it's a two year wait before you can get an A

A2 is motorcycles with a power rating not exceeding 35 kW, with a power to weight ratio not exceeding 0.2 kW/kg and not derived from a vehicle of more than double its power.

Faith+1

mikemac1 wrote: »

20 years old to get an A licence

Ok you apply for your new A2 at eighteen.

Pass and I assume it's a two year wait before you can get an A

A2 is motorcycles with a power rating not exceeding 35 kW, with a power to weight ratio not exceeding 0.2 kW/kg and not derived from a vehicle of more than double its power.

Good work Mike. Thank chr*st I'm 27 and don't have to bother with this new system. I really feel sorry for the new guys/Gals trying to start out biking, it's just more rules after another.

Paparazzo

Faith+1 wrote: »

Good work Mike. Thank chr*st I'm 27 and don't have to bother with this new system. I really feel sorry for the new guys/Gals trying to start out biking, it's just more rules after another.

A lot of people just aren't going to bother their hole trying to go through all the red tape. Which is exactly what they're hoping.

Faith+1

Paparazzo wrote: »

A lot of people just aren't going to bother their hole trying to go through all the red tape. Which is exactly what they're hoping.

Why do you think that is Paparazzo? I would of assumed the Government would be happy with revenue generated from Bike Sales, Protective Gear, Insurance, Tax etc....?

Paparazzo

Faith+1 wrote: »

Why do you think that is Paparazzo? I would of assumed the Government would be happy with revenue generated from Bike Sales, Protective Gear, Insurance, Tax etc....?

Well, personally I know of 3 people that were thinking of getting into bikes but were turned off by all the crap involved now.

EDIT: didn't read your post right. To get road safety stats down is the reason. Less bikes means better road safety stats.

KingIsabella

Speaking of regulations i thought i'd ask here instead of starting a new thread.Are there legal requirements for licence plates? Mine is a long slim rectangle, but perfectly legible, not difficult to see from a couple of car lengths and is perfectly clean, and i got pulled on it earlier?

Roadskill

Paparazzo wrote: »

Well, personally I know of 3 people that were thinking of getting into bikes but were turned off by all the crap involved now.

Why do people always say that. Should we allow anyone to ride size bike they want at any age. A licence has to be earned and is not a god given right to have one. The rest of the world have had many rules and regs regarding licences for years it's just that Ireland is way behind and trying to catch up quickly.
BTW everyone interested should read the document closely before commenting as some of it makes a lot of sense.
Don't forget that at the moment you can get an A licence at 18 but it's restricted to 25kw. With the A2 it is 35 kw which give you more power. From looking at it though you won't be able to take your full test on a 250 anymore.

Roadskill

KingIsabella wrote: »

Speaking of regulations i thought i'd ask here instead of starting a new thread.Are there legal requirements for licence plates? Mine is a long slim rectangle, but perfectly legible, not difficult to see from a couple of car lengths and is perfectly clean, and i got pulled on it earlier?

There are 2 types allowed for bikes and they are in the ROTR book. The long one and the square one. If i'm not mistaken there should be no italic letters and minimum 1 1/2 inches in height. I am open to correction

Paparazzo

Roadskill wrote: »

Why do people always say that. Should we allow anyone to ride size bike they want at any age. A licence has to be earned and is not a god given right to have one. The rest of the world have had many rules and regs regarding licences for years it's just that Ireland is way behind and trying to catch up quickly.
BTW everyone interested should read the document closely before commenting as some of it makes a lot of sense.
Don't forget that at the moment you can get an A licence at 18 but it's restricted to 25kw. With the A2 it is 35 kw which give you more power. From looking at it though you won't be able to take your full test on a 250 anymore.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying :rolleyes:

KingIsabella

Roadskill wrote: »

There are 2 types allowed for bikes and they are in the ROTR book. The long one and the square one. If i'm not mistaken there should be no italic letters and minimum 1 1/2 inches in height. I am open to correction

I have the long one, no italics, standard black lettering and definitely 1 1/2 inces. He didnt even ask for licence or castration papers or anything, just the plate.

Roadskill

KingIsabella wrote: »

I have the long one, no italics, standard black lettering and definitely 1 1/2 inces. He didnt even ask for licence or castration papers or anything, just the plate.

Obviously a billy no mates looking for brownie points. Did he fine you or not. If not it's cos he couldn't

gipi

mikemac1 wrote: »

20 years old to get an A licence

Ok you apply for your new A2 at eighteen.

Pass and I assume it's a two year wait before you can get an A

A2 is motorcycles with a power rating not exceeding 35 kW, with a power to weight ratio not exceeding 0.2 kW/kg and not derived from a vehicle of more than double its power.

Think it's a bit more restrictive than that mikemac - my reading of it is that you can't apply for the A2 until you've had an A1 licence.

Kev.OC

mikemac1 wrote: »

20 years old to get an A licence

Ok you apply for your new A2 at eighteen.

Pass and I assume it's a two year wait before you can get an A

A2 is motorcycles with a power rating not exceeding 35 kW, with a power to weight ratio not exceeding 0.2 kW/kg and not derived from a vehicle of more than double its power.

Subject to paragraph (2), a person granted a driving licence for the first time on or after 19 January 2013 to drive vehicles in category A is, until a period of having held a driving licence in the category for 2 years, restricted to driving only those vehicles in that category which have a power output not exceeding 35 kW, a power/weight ratio not exceeding 0.2kW/kg or not derived from a vehicle of more than double its power.

From reading that it would appear that you're still restricted for 2 years after passing your test for the full A licence. That being said though, it appears the restriction is a little higher than it is currently.

Also, my reading of the amended regulations leads me to believe that they're trying to get rid of restricted bikes.

Del2005

Roadskill wrote: »

Why do people always say that. Should we allow anyone to ride size bike they want at any age. A licence has to be earned and is not a god given right to have one. The rest of the world have had many rules and regs regarding licences for years it's just that Ireland is way behind and trying to catch up quickly.
BTW everyone interested should read the document closely before commenting as some of it makes a lot of sense.
Don't forget that at the moment you can get an A licence at 18 but it's restricted to 25kw. With the A2 it is 35 kw which give you more power. From looking at it though you won't be able to take your full test on a 250 anymore.

If they bothered to do any research into the power of bikes and the correlation to crashes then I'd agree. But this is just regulation for the sake of it and adding more tests means more work for testers, I know this is an EU directive.

Find me some peer reviewed research that correlates reduced power for new riders and less crashes and I'll agree 100% with it. But there are many thousands of bikers the world over and no government or other regulatory body have provided research to prove restricting new riders works, and as you say many countries have had graded licences for years. But the UK hasn't, once you are over 21, and they have some of the safest roads in the world

I 100% agree with proper regulated training.

You can end up the same coming off a 49cc moped as an R1, it's all depends on you're PPE and luck.

Faith+1

Del I'll add the link you posted on Learning to Drive:

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Consultations/Consultation%20Changes%20to%20DL%20System.pdf

It starts from page 7

Hotblack Desiato

KingIsabella wrote: »

I have the long one, no italics, standard black lettering and definitely 1 1/2 inces. He didnt even ask for licence or castration papers or anything, just the plate.

Opening a new thread for a different question is a good thing.

Car plates have two legal sizes - 520x110mm (the 'long' type) and 340x220mm (the 'square' type)

A bike is allowed to halve these dimensions in each direction - so 260x55mm or 170x110 are legal, anything smaller isn't.

A 'long' type bike plate 1.5 inches high (about 37mm) is a good bit less than the minimum legal size of 55mm high

Odysseus

Paparazzo wrote: »

Well, personally I know of 3 people that were thinking of getting into bikes but were turned off by all the crap involved now.

I know, sure my own brother bought a PX200 then when he discovered all the crap he would have to go through, I took it off him and he got a 125 instead. It just keeps getting harder and harder for people to strat off.

Improvements in safety are great of course; but lets not make it that difficult and expensive that it puts people off.

nc13

gipi wrote: »

Think it's a bit more restrictive than that mikemac - my reading of it is that you can't apply for the A2 until you've had an A1 licence.

If thats the case it will take 6 years to get a full A. Add to that the cost of 3 tests, a lot of people will give up.

Hotblack Desiato

Odysseus wrote: »

I know, sure my own brother bought a PX200 then when he discovered all the crap he would have to go through, I took it off him and he got a 125 instead. It just keeps getting harder and harder for people to strat off.

Improvements in safety are great of course; but lets not make it that difficult and expensive that it puts people off.

You can get a restricted A learner permit at age 18 with no bike experience. A PX200 surely falls within restricted A. Did he think he could ride it on a car licence or something? some do.

When I started off, you could only get an A provisional if you had a full A1 licence for two years(!), or were over 25. We're better off now imho.
If the new rules allow direct access, we'll be better off again.

gipi

nc13 wrote: »

If thats the case it will take 6 years to get a full A. Add to that the cost of 3 tests, a lot of people will give up.

The discussion document from the RSA proposed training as an alternative to testing as a biker moved up the categories (provided one test was done at the first category of course!) - not sure if it made it to the final version though?

The discussion document also proposed a form of Direct Access for over 24s who could go straight to the A category with, presumably, specific training & testing. But that may not have made it either?

The guys and gals at MAG Ireland have promised to do a write-up when they've deciphered the legislation (and asked questions about the errors and ommissions!)

carsQhere

gipi wrote: »

The guys and gals at MAG Ireland have promised to do a write-up when they've deciphered the legislation (and asked questions about the errors and ommissions!)

Correct.

I was at a MAG meeting about this last night. MAG's resident solicitor is currently looking into it. To my untrained eye it appears no provision was made for direct access at 24 as provided for in the directive, but that's why we have legal expertise, so we'll see what their take is.

As things stand, the plan is for existing full license holders moving up the A categories by way of an insurance style riding assessment, and not a re-sit of the exact same test required to get a full license to begin with.

There will be something on the MAG web site about it once we've clarified a few things with the RSA amongst others. No point in posting something based on guesswork & assumptions.

pa990

this A2 category along with a lot more new regulation/rules were all announced in the "3rd EU Directive on Driving Licences" which was published in 2007 iirc.

Lots of people ignored warning of what was is to come.

chasm

I currently have a full A1 licence, and from reading the RSA link above the A2 looks interesting for me, it says that it covers bikes over 125cc but with a power limit of 35kW and a power to weight ratio of 0.2kW/kg, does anyone know offhand what bikes fall into that category?

I personally wouldn't mind doing a course of training to move up to a bigger bike as this system would suit me, as i never had to do a theory test, and the way it is at the moment to move to what is now an A licence i would have to sit the theory then do the practical test again.

nc13

The discussion document also proposed a form of Direct Access for over 24s who could go straight to the A category with, presumably, specific training & testing.


Is this not the case at the moment?

carsQhere

nc13 wrote: »

The discussion document also proposed a form of Direct Access for over 24s who could go straight to the A category with, presumably, specific training & testing.


Is this not the case at the moment?

No. You're currently restricted for two years after you pass your test, beginning on the date your license is issued (not the date you pass the test).

The legislators appeared to have ignored their own consultation document this time around, and it looks like 4.5 years to get a full unrestricted A from 2013, but I could be reading it wrong. See what you think yourself - Link as posted in the OP: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/si/0483.html

Odysseus

ninja900 wrote: »

When I started off, you could only get an A provisional if you had a full A1 licence for two years(!), or were over 25. We're better off now imho.
If the new rules allow direct access, we'll be better off again.

I'm well covered now now, but direct access would be the way to go. It would make it possible for people to get the bikes they want with the necessary training being covered. It should be a win/win.

chasm

One thing i noticed in the link in the OP is this:
category vehicles in category
A: Motorcycles.
Motor tricycles.

A1 :Motorcycles with an engine capacity not exceeding 125 cubic centimetres, with a power rating not exceeding 11 kW and with a power to weight ratio not exceeding 0.1 kW/kg.Motor tricycles with a power rating not exceeding 15 kW.

Am i right in thinking that motor tricycles used to be under car licences in Ireland? I recall a thread here before about the Piaggio MP3 and that the poster was covered to drive it on his car licence but not his bike licence. The 125cc MP3 would come in under an A1 licence when this is brought in, is that right?

Del2005

Odysseus wrote: »

I'm well covered now now, but direct access would be the way to go. It would make it possible for people to get the bikes they want with the necessary training being covered. It should be a win/win.

The DA being proposed by the EU is to ride 49bhp bikes for 2 years. And the original bike can't have been more than twice that.

Still BS for an unproven theory. The problem before was you could get a Superbike with no training. It wasn't the power that was the problem but the person you didn't know how to ride.

Why after all the years of restricted licences the world over has no study been done to prove that it saves lives?

Del2005

chasm wrote: »

One thing i noticed in the link in the OP is this:
category vehicles in category
A: Motorcycles.
Motor tricycles.

A1 :Motorcycles with an engine capacity not exceeding 125 cubic centimetres, with a power rating not exceeding 11 kW and with a power to weight ratio not exceeding 0.1 kW/kg.Motor tricycles with a power rating not exceeding 15 kW.

Am i right in thinking that motor tricycles used to be under car licences in Ireland? I recall a thread here before about the Piaggio MP3 and that the poster was covered to drive it on his car licence but not his bike licence. The 125cc MP3 would come in under an A1 licence when this is brought in, is that right?

IIRC it was due to the width of the axle. They released a new version with a narrower axle so people with only bike licences can ride them, but I think they still sell the B licence version.

chasm

Del2005 wrote: »

IIRC it was due to the width of the axle. They released a new version with a narrower axle so people with only bike licences can ride them, but I think they still sell the B licence version.

For the rest of europe maybe, reading posts on here and elsewhere it would appear that in Ireland any motor vehicle with 3 wheels is a tricycle and a tricycle is regarded as a vehicle in category "B" for driver licensing purposes, and the driver is required to hold a category "B" driving licence.

Here's a post by Sesshoumaru from 2010 regarding his MP3
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68858891&postcount=7

phoenix0250

Ok, ive another year left on my restriction (full licence obviously), now since im 20 when the year passes, will I keep my unrestricted licence or will they restrict me since i'm under 24? Bloody hope they dont otherwise it will be plain ridiculous

Faith+1

phoenix0250 wrote: »

Ok, ive another year left on my restriction (full licence obviously), now since im 20 when the year passes, will I keep my unrestricted licence or will they restrict me since i'm under 24? Bloody hope they dont otherwise it will be plain ridiculous

You're fine Phoenix. This only affects new LP holders from next year.

Hotblack Desiato

Changes in driver licensing rules only apply to new drivers. At least that's what happened the last time it changed in 1999. Anyone who already had an unrestricted A provisional was allowed keep it and got an unrestricted full A licence when they passed their test.

Del2005

ninja900 wrote: »

Changes in driver licensing rules only apply to new drivers. At least that's what happened the last time it changed in 1999. Anyone who already had an unrestricted A provisional was allowed keep it and got an unrestricted full A licence when they passed their test.

Yeah I was p!ssed I was a few months too young to go full fat:(

Faith+1

Del2005 wrote: »

Yeah I was p!ssed I was a few months too young to go full fat

What??

Del2005

Faith+1 wrote: »

What??

Non restricted licence.:D

Faith+1

Del2005 wrote: »

Non restricted licence.:D

Alright Del! My bad! Thought the pressure was getting to you, but what pressure!?:D

NinjaK

If I did the theory test and got my provisional license would I avoid all these new rules coming in. I probably wont get a bike this year but I might next year.

Faith+1

NinjaK wrote: »

If I did the theory test and got my provisional license would I avoid all these new rules coming in. I probably wont get a bike this year but I might next year.

If you get a LP now for the Motorbike you'll have to undertake the IBT course but the rules being introduced next year will not apply. If I'm wrong guys please correct me.

NinjaK

Faith+1 wrote: »

NinjaK wrote: »

If I did the theory test and got my provisional license would I avoid all these new rules coming in. I probably wont get a bike this year but I might next year.

If you get a LP now for the Motorbike you'll have to undertake the IBT course but the rules being introduced next year will not apply. If I'm wrong guys please correct me.

Are you sure I can't get the license without doing the IBT?

P.C.

NinjaK wrote: »

Are you sure I can't get the license without doing the IBT?

IBT is a legal requirment.

Hotblack Desiato

Problem is then that you'll only have a year or less left on your learner permit when you actually get a bike. Not a problem if you're prepared to put the effort in with training and practice and pass your test with only a few months experience, it can be done.

Tigger

Roadskill wrote: »

Why do people always say that. Should we allow anyone to ride size bike they want at any age. A licence has to be earned and is not a god given right to have one. The rest of the world have had many rules and regs regarding licences for years it's just that Ireland is way behind and trying to catch up quickly.
BTW everyone interested should read the document closely before commenting as some of it makes a lot of sense.
Don't forget that at the moment you can get an A licence at 18 but it's restricted to 25kw. With the A2 it is 35 kw which give you more power. From looking at it though you won't be able to take your full test on a 250 anymore.

I hate you
I has that you make money from anti biker legislation
But most of all I hate that you think you are biker

Roadskill

Tigger wrote: »

Roadskill wrote: »

Why do people always say that. Should we allow anyone to ride size bike they want at any age. A licence has to be earned and is not a god given right to have one. The rest of the world have had many rules and regs regarding licences for years it's just that Ireland is way behind and trying to catch up quickly.
BTW everyone interested should read the document closely before commenting as some of it makes a lot of sense.
Don't forget that at the moment you can get an A licence at 18 but it's restricted to 25kw. With the A2 it is 35 kw which give you more power. From looking at it though you won't be able to take your full test on a 250 anymore.

I hate you
I has that you make money from anti biker legislation
But most of all I hate that you think you are biker

So you hate me but have no clue about me. nice. Anyway I would like to know what a real biker is. Please enlighten me.

Tigger

Roadskill wrote: »

So you hate me but have no clue about me. nice. Anyway I would like to know what a real biker is. Please enlighten me.

I agree it's based on a perception I've drawn from your posts here

RosieJoe

Tigger wrote: »

I hate you
I has that you make money from anti biker legislation
But most of all I hate that you think you are biker

Roadskill wrote: »

So you hate me but have no clue about me. nice. Anyway I would like to know what a real biker is. Please enlighten me.

Tigger wrote: »

I agree it's based on a perception I've drawn from your posts here

P.C.

Thread locked for now. I will deal with this later when I have time.