Dublin Bus to trial Wi-Fi service

mydiscworld

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0214/breaking44.html

Dublin Bus is to begin a wireless internet trial on a number of its buses from next week.

A total of 10 buses serving the 16 route - between Ballinteer and Santry - will offer the service to passengers free of charge over the next two months.

A Dublin Bus spokeswoman said posters would be used to highlight the availability of the service on the selected buses.

She said the trial would be used to evaluate if it is viable to extend wireless internet access across the entire fleet.

The company has issued a tender seeking proposals from potential suppliers in order to see how much rolling out the technology across 800 to 900 buses would cost.

“This process does not represent a commitment to purchase, and any possible purchase(s) resulting are dependant on availability of funding,” the tender document says.

Bus Éireann, Iarnrod Éireann and a number of private bus companies currently offer similar technology on selected routes.

bk

While I've long be a strong supporter of rolling out free wifi on intercity rail and bus services and perhaps even long distance commuter service, I'm really not sure if it makes sense on city bus services.

It seems like a waste of money.

Bazzer2

Some of the Network Directed routes ARE becoming long-distance!

kthnxbai

I think it would be useful. Not for a laptop or anything, but it'd be nice to be able to use it on my phone.


However, it's pretty clear that DB aren't exactly rolling in it at the moment, and it's questionable whether there's any real value in doing this.

If there was wifi on buses, surely this would solve the problem of validating leap cards?

n97 mini

It seems everything on the bus will be connected to the internet except the Leap ticket machine!

Run_to_da_hills

bk wrote: »

While I've long be a strong supporter of rolling out free wifi on intercity rail and bus services and perhaps even long distance commuter service, I'm really not sure if it makes sense on city bus services.

It seems like a waste of money.

It would depend, I would certainly welcome it under my current 02 1gb per month data bundle. It would also be useful for those using WIFI only media devices like IPod touch and various other tablets.

starviewadams

Should see a healthy increase in phone/laptop robberies on the 40 when it's rolled out!

JustAddWater

so they cut buses because of funding yet spend how many millions rolling out this crap

People dont NEED this. Not on short journeys

they DO NEED an efficient and reliable bus service. I'm sure the money pissed away on this could be put to much better use like bringing back the midweek nightlink or the 19 bus route

Joke of a company. WIFI isn't going to suddenly start attracting new customers. Whats the ROI on this? Seriously. Nothing, that's what

antoinolachtnai

It is a scandal to be trialling something like this, when other more essential technology projects are in trouble, whilst services are being cut and basic costs have been allowed spiral beyond all control.

KD345

Hardly a scandal. We don't know the exact cost. Having free wifi could actually encourage some people to use the bus. There is a big rise in iPad/tablet usage along with smartphones. This would give the bus an advantage over the car for an entertaining/productive commute. There is also the possibility of the service attracting advertising similar to how some hotels and restaurants do.

antoinolachtnai

Having a good service at a reasonable price is what will encourage people to use the bus.

KD345

Of course. As will free wifi.

Cookie_Monster

KD345 wrote: »

Of course. As will free wifi.

no it won't, it's a fringe benefit at best but is highly unlikely to attract people from other forms of transport on it's own. You are not going to give up your car/bike etc because a bus has wifi, you might if the service is cost effective and frequent.

If they could employ one more driver or run one more service on a route rather than wasting money on stuff like this it'd be far far more beneficial to the customer.

Wifi certainly does have a place on long distance bus and rail but it should not be a priority for DB local services.

CricketDude

Let me just ask a question here.
All the people not in favour - Do you use dublin bus every day?

RobbingBandit

I wonder what the download speed will be.

Kensington

KD345 wrote: »

Hardly a scandal. We don't know the exact cost. Having free wifi could actually encourage some people to use the bus. There is a big rise in iPad/tablet usage along with smartphones. This would give the bus an advantage over the car for an entertaining/productive commute. There is also the possibility of the service attracting advertising similar to how some hotels and restaurants do.

Ha! I can just imagine how productive it would be trying to get some work done on a laptop while rammed into a bus with 100 other people with your teeth rattling from an engine that sounds like it's about to meet a violent end.
That's, of course, providing the bus hasn't driven right past your stop as it's too full due to there being too great a demand on the route due to recent cuts to fleet numbers.

Some things are to be commended, but this is just plain silly. As someone above pointed out, everything except what needs to be connected to the internet most (ie. the Wayfarer terminal) will now be internet-ted on board a Dublin Bus if this plan comes to fruition.
Dublin Bus would be well advised to focus on getting their primary product up to scratch - regular, reliable and convenient transport for Dublin - than silly gimmicks if they're looking to boost passenger numbers.

KD345

Just because the level of service is being reduced does not mean the remaining service should not be made as attractive as possible. Remember, the same free service is being rolled out on Luas later this year, so Dublin Bus needs to be competing at the same level. Many people use their smart phone and iPad devices to do some work on the way to the office, I'm guilty of this myself sometimes, and when the bus is viewed as a place offering free wifi it does make it more attractive to use. Similarly, I know people who favor some coffee shops over others simply because they offer free wifi. I'd imagine free wifi would be welcomed by anybody spending an hour on the 39 from Ongar or the 66 from Maynooth.

We don't know the cost for this yet, and Dublin Bus have said the full roll out is subject to available funding. Perhaps it would be best to wait to see what becomes of this trial before bashing it. Similar projects exist in many cities and are funded by advertising and partnerships, so there is every possibility Dublin could go the same way.

JustAddWater

KD345 wrote: »

Hardly a scandal. We don't know the exact cost. Having free wifi could actually encourage some people to use the bus. There is a big rise in iPad/tablet usage along with smartphones. This would give the bus an advantage over the car for an entertaining commute

No we don't know the setup cost but it certainly isn't free!!

I honestly cannot see myself or others saying "ah I'll get the bus, it has wifi"

It just doesn't make any sense on short journeys

People have 3G anyway

KD345

JustAddWater wrote: »

No we don't know the setup cost but it certainly isn't free!!

I honestly cannot see myself or others saying "ah I'll get the bus, it has wifi"

It just doesn't make any sense on short journeys

People have 3G anyway

Many commuters can spend over an hour on the bus. That's longer than you would spend in a coffee shop or the Luas, yet they offer/will offer free wifi. Not everyone has a generous 3G data package, so being able to have wifi on a bus would be a big help to any student heading to college, someone checking emails or just web browsing.

Yakuza

I would take the bus 2 or 3 days a week (4-6 journeys), and would welcome free wifi (streaming radio eats up data!), but only if the cost of providing it were marginal. I'd prefer they restore the level of service back on my route first.

Jesus Wept

Will this result in ever increasing fares?
I'd rather they hadn't cut the number routes near to me from 3 to 1.

LXFlyer

Whatever about the pros/cons of free wifi, expecting routes that were not carrying sufficient numbers to be resurrected is not living in the real world.

Yes there have been serious problems on some routes with reliability since new timetables came in due to insufficient running times and consequent short workings, and the length of time taken to address them has frankly been scandalous, but the fact remains that there was significant over-capacity in certain areas of the city, with buses running around carrying mainly thin air.

I can see the change in my daily commute with my usual bus now having a full seated load by the time it reaches the city centre, as opposed to being only 40-50% full before. This is partly due to the extension of the route to the other side of the city, but also due to the elimination of the overcapacity on other routes.

I'd tend to agree with some of the posters here, as a daily DB commuter I'd appreciate the free wifi, and watching passengers I would safely say that the numbers using smart phones are growing and growing, but I would only like to see the service provided if it can be done at a marginal cost to DB.

bk

First I'd rather Dublin Bus:

- Fixed the Leap card usage (fixed fee tag on only or tagon/tagoff).
- On bus displays of the next stop.
- Double and triple door usage to reduce dwell times

Free wifi, fine, if it doesn't cost too much.

But it really isn't that big of a deal. Most people have 3G data plans. It makes sense on intercity services, as you often go through areas of weak 3G signal, which the much larger aerials and dual network support can help with.

But this typically isn't a problem with 3G in the city.

Yes it might mean that if you use it, it won't eat into your data cap. However going by the Irish Rail service, I bet video and audio (radio) streaming will be blocked, so not very useful anyway.

It might be useful to a minority of people with iPads and iPod Touchs, but I'm not sure it justifies the cost, when there are so many more important things to do.

LXFlyer

There may be some developments on the on-bus displays of the next stop - I was on a 25b on Monday night that did had a fully working display upstairs showing each stop and showing the destination of the bus at any stop it actually stopped at.

There were no aural announcements, but the display worked perfectly. It seemed identical to TfL's Ibus, so it may be a further test.

TheChrisD

Well, if they happen to put WiFi on the 70 before IÉ put WiFi on the M3 Parkway trains, I see myself taking the bus a lot more than I do now...

colly10

They've just seriously increased fares cause they weren't making enough money and they're wasting it on this crap.
I use the bus cause it gets me to work and that's all I care about. The top guys should be looking at how they can save money and nothing more

Dravokivich

kthnxbai wrote: »

If there was wifi on buses, surely this would solve the problem of validating leap cards?

By validating, do you mean collecting Top Ups?

I ask because "touching on" will also be validating. And having the machines online in a bus won't make any difference to that.

Dyr

jesus H, imagine what DB wifi would be like, you could only log on at 20 minute intervals and half the pages wouldnt load anyway.

Might have been a decent idea four years ago but who cares now?

Dyr

CricketDude wrote: »

Let me just ask a question here.
All the people not in favour - Do you use dublin bus every day?

Every single fecking day bar sundays. Id be much happier if they focussed on developing technology for buses to electrocute the c**ts who blast everyone out of it with their music. :mad:

lil5

As a daily DB user I'd rather have the WiFi at the bus stops as I seem to be spending more and more time there. They could include it in the further rollout of the RTPI-displays (whenever that happens - yes, I know that's also not DB's fault).

If it would be on the bus I'd probably have to get off by the time I've managed a connection to the WiFi network.

Another 80+x% offering to go with the 80+x% running of the timetabled services and the 80+x% accuracy of the RTPI.

spoonface

Typically this will be one data sim shared around the bus via wifi, or maximum 2 sims. Some of the bandwidth may get used up by the bus for its own purposes.

RobbingBandit wrote: »

I wonder what the download speed will be.

bk

On Saturday I was on a 16A that has wifi (the drivers were chatting about it during a driver handover).

Tried logging in, but it makes you take a survey before you can use!

By the time you would complete the survey, you would be at your destination anyway. So didn't bother and just used my 3g instead.

KD345

bk wrote: »

Tried logging in, but it makes you take a survey before you can use!

By the time you would complete the survey, you would be at your destination anyway. So didn't bother and just used my 3g instead.

It's not that long a survey. You're asked for your email address, then about 5 multiple choice questions such as your age, journey type and which ticket you use. You then agree to the terms and conditions and you're on.

bk

KD345 wrote: »

It's not that long a survey. You're asked for your email address, then about 5 multiple choice questions such as your age, journey type and which ticket you use. You then agree to the terms and conditions and you're on.

Try doing that on a 3.5" iPhone screen on a bumpy bus ride. Really not quick, the site isn't even optimised for mobile browsers!!

Fair enough if you don't have 3g, but I can't see anyone with a 3g device bothering.

CricketDude

KD345 wrote: »

It's not that long a survey. You're asked for your email address, then about 5 multiple choice questions such as your age, journey type and which ticket you use. You then agree to the terms and conditions and you're on.

Is that just once, or do you have to do it every trip.
Are there signs on the buses with the wifi.

foggy_lad

bk wrote: »

On Saturday I was on a 16A that has wifi (the drivers were chatting about it during a driver handover).

Tried logging in, but it makes you take a survey before you can use!

By the time you would complete the survey, you would be at your destination anyway. So didn't bother and just used my 3g instead.

The Bus Eireann WiFi has no survey and your email address is not requested but you are invited to leave feedback comments iirc.

bk

foggy_lad wrote: »

The Bus Eireann WiFi has no survey and your email address is not requested but you are invited to leave feedback comments iirc.

That is much better, I wish Irish Rail did the same.

With IR, they ask you to enter your email address every time you reconnect, which can be multiple times during the journey (devices like the iPad quickly turn off the wifi if you aren't using it).

I don't know why they bother, I always give a fake email address anyway, who wants the spam?

dfx-

CricketDude wrote: »

Are there signs on the buses with the wifi.

Looks like the double door ex-Airlink AVs are the ones given the honour. Signs on their windscreens.

Not all usually on the 16s, but must be now. They're awful junk, so there's a good chance it'll break down and left plenty of time to complete any survey:)

saa

Finally, maybe more people will start using their laptops on buses and children will stop saying "mammy, mammy why is that girl brought her computer on the bus? is she allowed to do that?" kind of thing.

I think it would make the 75 route bearable and eventually Ill get a phone that can connect to wireless, I mean I have important things to do on the internet, important status' to be checkin.

conorcan2

Just used it on the 16 bus.

Speed is reasonable, but you may have to hit refresh a few times. I spend about 10 hours a week on the bus, I can now use my time more productively...10 hours is more than one working day (I'm a web developer).

spoonface

bk wrote: »

On Saturday I was on a 16A that has wifi (the drivers were chatting about it during a driver handover).

Tried logging in, but it makes you take a survey before you can use!

By the time you would complete the survey, you would be at your destination anyway. So didn't bother and just used my 3g instead.

If you have a data plan anyways, then there's no advantage except to keep from hitting your 'fair usage' limits. The only way you could get a better experience is if you happen to be passing through an area where the sim used by the bus is with a mobile operator that has better coverage in your current area than your own mobile operator.

bk

spoonface wrote: »

If you have a data plan anyways, then there's no advantage except to keep from hitting your 'fair usage' limits. The only way you could get a better experience is if you happen to be passing through an area where the sim used by the bus is with a mobile operator that has better coverage in your current area than your own mobile operator.

This is why on board wifi is attractive on intercity rail and bus, even if you have a data plan. The more powerful antenna on the roof and the fact that it usually uses two separate networks for coverage means that it helps in the many dead spots you find traveling through the country side.

But this rarely is a problem in Dublin, very few black spots.

That why I'm questioning the advantage of this, it benefits a much MUCH smaller number of people. Therefore is it worth the cost?

KD345

bk wrote: »

This is why on board wifi is attractive on intercity rail and bus, even if you have a data plan. The more powerful antenna on the roof and the fact that it usually uses two separate networks for coverage means that it helps in the many dead spots you find traveling through the country side.

But this rarely is a problem in Dublin, very few black spots.

That why I'm questioning the advantage of this, it benefits a much MUCH smaller number of people. Therefore is it worth the cost?

70% of public transport use in Dublin happens with Dublin Bus. Some of these journeys are short, but a lot of them would be between 40-60 minutes, with some even longer. Surely anybody spending an hour on a bus could benefit in exactly the same way as someone spending an hour on Irish Rail or Bus Eireann.

Not everyone has a generous data plan. Wifi will always be better for watching videos or streaming audio.

Vahevala

KD345 wrote: »

70% of public transport use in Dublin happens with Dublin Bus. Some of these journeys are short, but a lot of them would be between 40-60 minutes, with some even longer. Surely anybody spending an hour on a bus could benefit in exactly the same way as someone spending an hour on Irish Rail or Bus Eireann.

Not everyone has a generous data plan. Wifi will always be better for watching videos or streaming audio.

They need to go with 3 then

bk

KD345 wrote: »

Wifi will always be better for watching videos or streaming audio.

No they are not.

Video and audio streaming are usually blocked on these services.

Remember, these services use the exactly same 3G networks as the 3G in your phone and have the same bandwidth constraints.

In fact they are often worse, as these on vehicle 3G services only use one sim card at a time, so if a few people on the bus are using the wifi then they are all sharing the single 3G connection and thus worse performance.

I'm not saying it won't be useful for some people, I'm just saying I'm not sure the cost justifies the relatively few people who will use.

This might seem ironic coming from me as I've been saying that Irish Rail and bus intercity services should have free wifi for the past 5 years.

KD345

bk wrote: »

I'm not saying it won't be useful for some people, I'm just saying I'm not sure the cost justifies the relatively few people who will use.

Why do you assume it will be used by only a few people? Smart phone sales are flying, as are sales of tablets and ipads. We also don't know the cost, so I'm sure this trial will determine if it's something worth investing in.

I'm not sure how it's run technically, although I found the speed very good when I used it.

bk

KD345 wrote: »

Why do you assume it will be used by only a few people? Smart phone sales are flying, as are sales of tablets and ipads. We also don't know the cost, so I'm sure this trial will determine if it's something worth investing in.

Because most Smart phones come with a data plan and with good 3g coverage in the city, thus they don't need it.

Yes Ipads (if the wifi model) would need it. But then to be honest I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be keeping such an expensive device out in the open on many bus routes.

KD345

bk wrote: »

Because most Smart phones come with a data plan and with good 3g coverage in the city, thus they don't need it.

Yes Ipads (if the wifi model) would need it. But then to be honest I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be keeping such an expensive device out in the open on many bus routes.

Smart Phones may come with a data package, but it's not always generous. Why risk going over your allowance when you can use the wifi on the bus for 10 hours of commuting a week? It's not just ipads, this will allow people use devices like the ipod touch, and free wifi will also help many tourists who don't want to run up expensive data roaming costs.

If you're happy with using your 3g data plan then that's great, but I do believe many passengers will benefit from free wifi. Neither you nor I know how successful it will be with passengers, or how much it's going to cost, but I'm sure that will all become apparent in the coming weeks. This is just a trial on 10 buses.

JustAddWater

KD345 wrote: »

Neither you nor I know how successful it will be with passengers, or how much it's going to cost

As I said earlier, it certainly isn't free. It's a cost that a loss making company who just recently cut services and routes cannot afford to bear and should not be making

It's a bit like someone in negative equity going out and spending thousands on a new kitchen:

"We're fooked and we have no money and we might lose the place but to hell with it, at least we have something nice and pretty to look at while we're sinking"

ThisRegard

JustAddWater wrote: »

It's a bit like someone in negative equity going out and spending thousands on a new kitchen:

"We're fooked and we have no money and we might lose the place but to hell with it, at least we have something nice and pretty to look at while we're sinking"

You need to understand what negative equity is.

Just because your house is in negative equity doesn't mean your fecked, in danger of loosing your house and have no money. Many people bought a family home with the intention of living it in the rest of their lives knowing what their mortgage repayments are going to be until the end of the mortgage term. Just because the house is now worth less than what they paid for is not a problem because they were going to be paying the same mortgage anyway.

bk

KD345 wrote: »

Smart Phones may come with a data package, but it's not always generous. Why risk going over your allowance when you can use the wifi on the bus for 10 hours of commuting a week? It's not just ipads, this will allow people use devices like the ipod touch, and free wifi will also help many tourists who don't want to run up expensive data roaming costs.

As these services don't support video and audio streaming, so basically just web browsing, facebook, email, etc. you are saving very little data from your caps.

It is really only video and audio streaming that busts peoples caps.

Again I'm not saying it isn't useful for some people, I just think it is much less useful then wifi on intercity services and therefore the cost less justifiable.

On a three hour train journey to Cork, many people want ot get real work or play done and wifi can be a major attraction to get people to use the train, instead of their car.

I'm not sure the same attraction exists for city bus services. While it maybe useful for some people, I'm not sure it will attract (or retain) any new customers.

What I'm saying is, I think the money would be better spent on other areas of DB such as:

- Introducing a flat fare or at least tag-on/tag-off with Leap.
- Introducing displays of the next stop name on the bus (probably much more useful for tourists then free wifi).
- Introducing double and triple door operations.