FRANCE VERSUS IRELAND - FRENCH CLUBS INFLUENCE

cork exile in london

ACCORDING TO THE INDEPENDENT THE FRENCH LEAGUE HAS DEMANDED THE GAME BE PLAYED IN JUNE. IF THIS HAPPENS IT WILL BE A FARCE. IT WILL RUIN THE 6 NATIONS TOURNAMENT FOR ALL TEAMS.

HOPEFULLY SENSE WILL PREVAIL? http://www.independent.ie/sport/

Podge_irl

Thankfully the French clubs have no say in the matter.

Podge_irl

Thankfully the French clubs have no say in the matter.

cork exile in london

Podge_irl wrote: »

Thankfully the French clubs have no say in the matter.

well according to the radio the 6 nations commitee is trying to come to an agreement with the clubs.

the_doctor199

europa11

Decision now deferred until tomorrow.

T 14 clubs cited as main reason for delay in announcement. (Newstalk)

Rattlehead_ie

According to Podge_irl

Podge_irl wrote: »

Thankfully the French clubs have no say in the matter.

Kayless

can't believe what I'm reading... by that time the tournament will be over

Steffano2002

Don't forget that, unike in in Ireland, the players have a contract with their club, not the FFR so of course the clubs have their say!

Clubs obviously don't like releasing their players for the 6 Nations and missing their best players for yet another week is really frustrating because of an incompetent 6 Nations Committee! Toulouse has 12/13 players in the French selection which means we're playing with our B Team for 6 weeks now!

CIARAN_BOYLE

Steffano2002 wrote: »

Don't forget that, unike in in Ireland, the players have a contract with their club, not the FFR so of course the clubs have their say!

Clubs obviously don't like releasing their players for the 6 Nations and missing their best players for yet another week is really frustrating because of an incompetent 6 Nations Committee! Toulouse has 12/13 players in the French selection which means we're playing with our B Team for 6 weeks now!

Don't the two 'free weekends' fall within the IRB international windows. Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that teams had to release players during these windows.

Zzippy

Ah sure, why not, play it as a warm up for the tour of NZ! Not like we'll be in the reckoning for the trophy anyway...

chris85

This is an absolute disgrace. No way they should be able to do this in June. Also are Ireland not due to be on tour in NZ in June? I thought thats when it was on.

Also If they organise this for March the 2nd and its going to be in the evening, which is what the rumours are saying, I would also be baffled as again a night time kick off will be had and possibility of frozen pitch again.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Zzippy wrote: »

Ah sure, why not, play it as a warm up for the tour of NZ! Not like we'll be in the reckoning for the trophy anyway...

It would have to be after our tour of New Zealand or clashing with the RDPro 12 Final and the T14 semifinals

cork exile in london

France should not be dictating everything considering all the hardship our fans had to endure this weekend. I understand the clubs been annoyed but i really do hope the irfu are fighting hard here because playing game after competition is meant to be finished is ridiculous.

The French clubs will strike(after all the do like a wee strike over there) .

Podge_irl

europa11 wrote: »

Decision now deferred until tomorrow.

T 14 clubs cited as main reason for delay in announcement. (Newstalk)

Based on what source? Or is it just guesswork on Newstalk's part.

The 6N committee has no French club representation on it.

Kayless

The postponed RBS 6 Nations match between France and Ireland will not be played this weekend, tournament organisers have confirmed

3 March, which is thought to be the favoured date, might not prove a trouble-free alternative.

That weekend clashes with a round of domestic Top 14 rugby action in France, and leading clubs are thought to be vehemently opposed to losing their star players for fixtures that include Clermont Auvergne versus Toulouse, Brive against Stade Francais and Agen against Perpignan.

RTE

Jesus mary and joe, this is one hell of a mess I wouldn't be at all surprised if they called the game off entirely and awarded both teams a point. In saying that if the committee decide on March 3/4 and the Franch players clubs oppose, what happens then?

CIARAN_BOYLE

Agreed I would love to see the 6 nations council sticking it to the FFR due to this, maybe forcing them to install underground heating or play in a different stadium next season.

Podge_irl

March 3/4 is an international window and the clubs have no choice but to release players. The clubs will be pissed but that's FFR's problem.

europa11

Steffano2002 wrote: »

Don't forget that, unike in in Ireland, the players have a contract with their club, not the FFR so of course the clubs have their say!

Clubs obviously don't like releasing their players for the 6 Nations and missing their best players for yet another week is really frustrating because of an incompetent 6 Nations Committee! Toulouse has 12/13 players in the French selection which means we're playing with our B Team for 6 weeks now!

Also bear in mind one of the games of the Top14 season is scheduled for the w/e of 3rd March with Clermont taking on Toulouse, imagine if we had to play a Munster/Leinster game on the weekend of such a re-arranged international and its easy to see why the French Clubs are up in arms.

http://www.lnr.fr/calendrier-resultats-top-14-orange.html



btw, Steffano, good win in Biarritz fri. night, great finish to the game

Allez les Rouge et Noir!:D

europa11

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Agreed I would love to see the 6 nations council sticking it to the FFR due to this, maybe forcing them to install underground heating or play in a different stadium next season.

FFR don't own the Stade de France. Also remember it was the 6N committee who insisted on the timing of this game thanks to the deal they struck with FR2 Television.

Steffano2002

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Agreed I would love to see the 6 nations council sticking it to the FFR due to this, maybe forcing them to install underground heating or play in a different stadium next season.

Stop blaming the FFR. They had no say on that fixture on saturday FFS! The Dublin-based 6 Nations Committee is at fault.

France 2 asked the 6 Nations Committee to move the game at 15:00 on wednesday last week and they were turned down. And, unless you can prove me otherwise, the FFR never refused to move this game! In fact they knew the cold was going to be a problem and they are annoyed at the 6 Nations Committee for doing nothing to avoid this mess.

I don't know what the Irish media are saying to you up there but stop blaming France, the FFR or the LNR!

As for the French media and the FFR, I can tell you they are also extremely frustrated by this situation and they always state that the worst aspect of this issue is the Irish fans having travelled all the way to Paris for nothing and everybody feels horrible about that.

So stop saying we messed up or did it on purpose! It's simply not true! FFS!

Steffano2002

europa11 wrote: »

FFR don't own the Stade de France. Also remember it was the 6N committee who insisted on the timing of this game thanks to the deal they struck with FR2 Television.

THANK YOU europa11!!!

And as I sai in my previous post, France 2 asked the 6 Nations Committee to play this game at the earlier time of 15:00 and they were turned down!

CIARAN_BOYLE

Steffano2002 wrote: »

Stop blaming the FFR. They had no say on that fixture on saturday FFS! The Dublin-based 6 Nations Committee is at fault.

France 2 asked the 6 Nations Committee to move the game at 15:00 on wednesday last week and they were turned down. And, unless you can prove me otherwise, the FFR never refused to move this game! In fact they knew the cold was going to be a problem and they are annoyed at the 6 Nations Committee for doing nothing to avoid this mess.

I don't know what the Irish media are saying to you up there but stop blaming France, the FFR or the LNR!

As for the French media and the FFR, I can tell you they are also extremely frustrated by this situation and they always state that the worst aspect of this issue is the Irish fans having travelled all the way to Paris for nothing and everybody feels horrible about that.

So stop saying we messed up or did it on purpose! It's simply not true! FFS!

Maybe not the FFR but someone messed up building or selecting to use a stadium with no underground heating. They should move to a stadium with underground heating. To have that problem in the modern era in a top of the line stadium is a sign of something wrong imo.

Steffano2002

europa11 wrote: »

btw, Steffano, good win in Biarritz fri. night, great finish to the game

Allez les Rouge et Noir!:D

Thanks Europa11!

Great win indeed! But feel bad for Biarritz who are looking like they may get relegated!

Steffano2002

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Maybe not the FFR but someone messed up building or selecting to use a stadium with no underground heating. They should move to a stadium with underground heating. To have that problem in the modern era in a top of the line stadium is a sign of something wrong imo.

Ciaran, do you really think the extraordinary cold spell hitting Europe (the worst since '56 I believe) was reason enough to spend millions more on underground heating when the Stade de France was designed? Seriously...

Of course the SdF would benefit from such a system but this situation we had on Saturday is extreme!

I don't know why you are looking for blame everywhere else but at the 6 Nations Committee level...

Steffano2002

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Agreed I would love to see the 6 nations council sticking it to the FFR due to this, maybe forcing them to install underground heating or play in a different stadium next season.

They themselves are at fault Ciaran, not the FFR. Wouldn't be surprised if the FFR/LNR stuck it to them!!!

cork exile in london

steffano the game should have been called off midwk. the forecast was there all wk sayin it was going be about minus 7. The game was on far to late at night and asking to bring the game forward a few hrs is all well in good but bit late to change it with fans already having trains booked or flights etc.

It was a farce on sat and its a farce today. sickening

fitz

According to todays Times, the idea of rescheduling the game to 3pm instead of 9pm never got further than the FFR and the tv stations discussing it. 6 Nations Committee were not involved, cause the idea was never taken to them.

Irish Times wrote:

MARK RODDEN gets the reaction to Saturday night’s game being called off at the last minute

IF THERE were any lingering doubts about the desire of the French Rugby Federation to build its own €600 million stadium by 2017, they were surely removed shortly before 9pm on Saturday night.

The FFR president Pierre Camou, one of the biggest advocates of a proposed new stadium which would hold a retractable roof, did little to hide his anger at the postponement of the match between France and Ireland.

He pointed out that his federation were not the decision makers in this case, seemingly seeking to lay the blame firmly with referee Dave Pearson.

Like many other people involved in French rugby, he also highlighted that games at Grenoble, Pau and Clermont-Ferrand had taken place earlier in the day, some in temperatures much lower than experienced at the Stade de France.

The French players and staff were more reserved, with most calling the postponement a logical decision given the state of the pitch before kick-off. French coach Philippe Saint-André said his players had been pumped up in the dressingroom before the game, and also stressed that it was in their interest to play on Saturday given that they had enjoyed a day’s more rest than Ireland.

Vincent Clerc said he was not sure the game would have gone ahead even if had it been moved forward, while Clermont centre Aurélien Rougerie said that while the team were frustrated, they agreed with the decision.

“We’re always ready for anything but it’s not easy,’ he said. “We’ve certainly avoided an accident, a stupid incident, something where you could do yourself some serious damage to your knee or your shoulder, especially in a scrum. You don’t know what could happen so I think it’s a wise decision.”

Outside the bowels of the Stade de France, however, there was a much less charitable reaction. French sports daily L’Equipe captured the mood best with the headline “Complètement Givrés!” (Completely Frosted-up). The word givré, however, is also slang for crazy.

Supporters detailed how farcical the situation was inside the stadium, describing how they were getting texts from friends telling them that the game was off as they stood trembling in the stands and waited for news.

It also emerged after the game was called off that the head of sport at France Télévision had suggested earlier last week that the game could have been moved forward, although he said he had not discussed this idea with the tournament’s organising committee.

Toulon president Mourad Boudjellal called the situation “less than amateurish”, while former French coach Bernard Laporte suggested that the main men in the FFR will not care that the match was called off. Their tickets, flights and hotels are paid for, he said, so they do not realise the sacrifices that normal supporters make.

Also in L’Equipe, the Montpellier coach Fabien Galthié lamented what he had witnessed. Working as a commentator for French TV on Saturday, he said it was the right decision to call the game off but that he was perplexed by how it had been done.

“It’s the first time that I’ve seen that,” the former French international said. “Why do we not have a pitch that’s capable of hosting a Six Nations match at night when it’s cold? It’s going to give a bad image of France.

“And I put myself in the place of the Irish fans who came from far away with their families. It’s shocking. Clearly this cancellation is the failure of the Stade de France. The ground staff deployed everything but it wasn’t enough. This postponement will get people talking because the organisers weren’t capable of managing the event, to take the necessary action.”

While recognising that the players’ safety was paramount, Toulouse coach Guy Novès also expressed his dismay at the timing of the decision.

“Top 14 matches have been called off several days before,” he told Le Parisien . “But here we’ve made 80,000 supporters come, a lot of them who’ve travelled a long way. I’m astonished. Why did they take off the covers at 7pm and not at the last second? The players could have warmed up inside.”

Novès, who had made the trip to Paris for the match, also questioned why the covers were not taken off briefly earlier in the week to test how the pitch would react to the cold. The fallout, it seems, is just getting started.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0213/1224311684832.html

Steffano2002

fitz wrote: »

According to todays Times, the idea of rescheduling the game to 3pm instead of 9pm never got further than the FFR and the tv stations discussing it. 6 Nations Committee were not involved, cause the idea was never taken to them.

That's what I thought. The Irish Media are lying to the Irish people. They did ask. France 2 themselves said it Live during the mess and reiterated it later that evening and the following day before the Wales-Scotland game. L'Equipe also confirms it:

L'Equipe wrote:

Par précaution, le diffuseur France Télévisions avait même fait une demande dans la semaine pour que le match se joue à 15h00. Demande refusée par le Comité des Six Nations.

Translation: As a precaution, the broadcaster France Televisions had even applied during the week that the game be played at 15:00. Request denied by the Six Nations Committee.

http://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites/France-irlande-annule/262858

Steffano2002

cork exile in london wrote: »

steffano the game should have been called off midwk. the forecast was there all wk sayin it was going be about minus 7. The game was on far to late at night and asking to bring the game forward a few hrs is all well in good but bit late to change it with fans already having trains booked or flights etc.

It was a farce on sat and its a farce today. sickening

Called off because "it may be too cold on Saturday night"?? You're joking right? What kind of lunatic would call off a game 3 days in advance because the pitch may be frozen on the night?

The right thing to do would have been to play at 15:00. Sure, maybe up to 10% of ticket holders may have missed it at that time but at least it would have gone ahead! Again, just go up to Ballsbridge and asked them why they refused to play at 15:00 and let me know what they say!

irishbucsfan

Podge_irl wrote: »

europa11 wrote: »

Decision now deferred until tomorrow.

T 14 clubs cited as main reason for delay in announcement. (Newstalk)

Based on what source? Or is it just guesswork on Newstalk's part.

The 6N committee has no French club representation on it.

All of their players are contracted to the French clubs. There is no way the game can possibly happen without them agreeing to it. They have more of a say than the FFR

youcancallmeal

Really hope it's not the 3rd, getting married that day! Waiting for an official announcement is killing me!

jacothelad

Zzippy wrote: »

Ah sure, why not, play it as a warm up for the tour of NZ! Not like we'll be in the reckoning for the trophy anyway...

youcancallmeal wrote: »

Really hope it's not the 3rd, getting married that day! Waiting for an official announcement is killing me!

Cheesus Al, you'll have to rearrange the Wedding.:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

CatFromHue

The Top 14 doesn't end until the 9th June with it's Semi's on the 2nd June and playoffs on the 26th May.

The final of the Pro 12 is on the 26th May, the final of the HEC is on the 19May, and the Semi's of the Pro 12 are the weekend of the 12th May.

Ireland play their first of three tests against NZ in NZ on the 9th June and France play the first of their two tests against Argentina in Argentina on the 16th June.

Realistically if the game were not to played during the 6 Nations window it can't be played in late May or June at all. If the game isn't played on the 2/3rd March there will be massive consequences.

WoollyRedHat

Sure just delay the wedding, I'm sure the bride to be and all the guests will understand.

But it really does stand to reason that the 6N committee are potentially ruining marriages, christenings and what else have you because of this, it's a bloodly disgrace

steve9859

CatFromHue wrote: »

Realistically if the game were not to played during the 6 Nations window it can't be played in late May or June at all. If the game isn't played on the 2/3rd March there will be massive consequences.

games were played in September after the foot and mouth. that is quite likely - its not ideal but I wouldn't say that there would be "massive consequences"

irishbucsfan

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Sure just delay the wedding, I'm sure the bride to be and all the guests will understand.

Make sure you wait until the last moment go postpone it. Preferably once everyone has gathered.

jacothelad

CatFromHue wrote: »

The Top 14 doesn't end until the 9th June with it's Semi's on the 2nd June and playoffs on the 26th May.

The final of the Pro 12 is on the 26th May, the final of the HEC is on the 19May, and the Semi's of the Pro 12 are the weekend of the 12th May.

Ireland play their first of three tests against NZ in NZ on the 9th June and France play the first of their two tests against Argentina in Argentina on the 16th June.

Realistically if the game were not to played during the 6 Nations window it can't be played in late May or June at all. If the game isn't played on the 2/3rd March there will be massive consequences.

Ireland will be able to play the game then no matter what the circumstances. If France can't provide a team then it should be awarded to Ireland. Very unsatisfactory indeed. In 1972 Ireland travelled to France and England and won. Wales and Scotland refused to come here and play. Ireland should have been awarded those games and weren't. In the amateur days it didn't really matter. It does now. France weren't responsible for the weather but they are responsible for trying to redress the problem caused by it. If they don't then they can't complain. It is a championship, not a day out for the French at their leisure.

efb

Wales will win the GS and the match will have no consequence

youcancallmeal

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Sure just delay the wedding, I'm sure the bride to be and all the guests will understand.

But it really does stand to reason that the 6N committee are potentially ruining marriages, christenings and what else have you because of this, it's a bloodly disgrace

I don't mind missing the game (well maybe I do a little bit) but I've been to weddings where there have been big games on. Think a Heineken Cup Final with Munster was one of them and half the wedding was in the bar while they were trying to serve dinner, absolute nightmare! Bride and Groom never even considered it and they weren't happy to say the least. One of the reasons we went for the 3rd is because there were no 6 nations games and a lot of our guests are big rugby fans.

Anyway I'm sure if it is the 3rd we'll probably just organise a telly in the function room

WoollyRedHat

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Make sure you wait until the last moment go postpone it. Preferably once everyone has gathered.

Yep, nothing like crushing antipation, like a penalty which swings the lead from one team to the other in the last 5 minutes

CatFromHue

steve9859 wrote: »

games were played in September after the foot and mouth. that is quite likely - its not ideal but I wouldn't say that there would be "massive consequences"

Back then there were only 7 regular season games in the Celtic League, it was the first year of the Celtic League I think, 6 regular season games in the HEC, and 2 inter pro games (for Leinster anyway as they played on in the Celtic League). So 15 regular season games. Nowadays there is 28 and as can be seen now a much more rigorous and inflexible schedule that is already stretching players do their breaking point.

Playing the France game next season will really mess up all the pre season that the internationals do or will effect club games. The players will have to come back early and do a pre season with Ireland which will mess up the club structures completely. Or do a their regular pre season and then in effect the 6 Nations game will be the equivalent of a pre season game.

Podge_irl

irishbucsfan wrote: »

All of their players are contracted to the French clubs. There is no way the game can possibly happen without them agreeing to it. They have more of a say than the FFR

They have no say. It's during the international window and while they can be as pissed off as they like the international team gets first dibs on the players.

If the clubs refuse to release players they'll get in trouble with the IRB.

Podge_irl

The foot & mouth games were played in Sep cause they had to wait for the foot & mouth crisis to actually be over!

irishbucsfan

Podge_irl wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

All of their players are contracted to the French clubs. There is no way the game can possibly happen without them agreeing to it. They have more of a say than the FFR

They have no say. It's during the international window and while they can be as pissed off as they like the international team gets first dibs on the players.

If the clubs refuse to release players they'll get in trouble with the IRB.

Well enjoy the game this weekend so!

irishbucsfan

Podge_irl wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

All of their players are contracted to the French clubs. There is no way the game can possibly happen without them agreeing to it. They have more of a say than the FFR

They have no say. It's during the international window and while they can be as pissed off as they like the international team gets first dibs on the players.

If the clubs refuse to release players they'll get in trouble with the IRB.

Well enjoy the game this weekend so!

Podge_irl

I'd be amazed if the game isn't on the weekend of March 3rd, which is apparently what the clubs are objecting to.

There is no way it will be on this weekend, but then no one seems to want it to be.

irishbucsfan

Podge_irl wrote: »

I'd be amazed if the game isn't on the weekend of March 3rd, which is apparently what the clubs are objecting to.

There is no way it will be on this weekend, but then no one seems to want it to be.

I hope it will be then as well, but the clubs have to agree to it. I think they'd really prefer it to be then as well.

Podge_irl

Their agreement may be sought but there is no FNR rep on the 6N committee ans it's ultimately their decision. If it is during an international window the clubs really don't have a choice.

danthefan

The weekend of the 2nd of March is actually outside the international window as it turns out.

http://www.irb.com/newsmedia/mediazone/pressrelease/newsid=2027792.html

Five weeks (matches) out of the seven weeks from the first weekend of February to the third weekend of March for the senior national representative team, the next senior national representative team and the Under 20 national representative team.

4PP

danthefan wrote: »

The weekend of the 2nd of March is actually outside the international window as it turns out.

http://www.irb.com/newsmedia/mediazone/pressrelease/newsid=2027792.html

danthefan is dead right & in theory the clubs or should I say the LNR, which govern the league, could make life difficult for the FFR.


What will (is currently) happen(ing) is this.


Lots of flailing arms, eyes going heavenwards, exaggerated sighs, strong declarations in the media, total refusal to concede on obscure points of FFR/LNR rules nevermind take responsabilty, indignation all 'round etc etc etc........




& behind closed doors top level negociations between the FFR and the LNR as the France vs Ireland game is used as a pawn in their never ending power struggle as to who really controls rugby in France.......




Oh! nearly forgot , the game will be played on the first weekend in March, but thats only a by the way in the greater scheme of things



C'est la vie